Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[F Gump]

They took on a questionable $24mm commitment for a late first rounder. So obviously they won’t pay an unprotected 1 to dump 12. You’re safe. Straw men ain’t gonna get you.

Don't call it a straw man, when my point is merely a RESPONSE to the suggestion (and the support of) the Mavs doing the lunacy you call a straw man.

[KillerLeft]

Don't call it a straw man, when my point is merely a RESPONSE to the suggestion (and the support of) the Mavs doing the lunacy you call a straw man.

Maybe I missed something, I just don’t think Cow was suggesting that they SHOULD pay that price to dump McGee. Not sure I’ve seen anyone support that, recently. I think we’re all on the same page as you with that. I’m in total agreement, that’s for sure.

[RGP1981]

Trade McGee for TyTy and Garuba? Not sure what it will take, but I think it can only be done on Sep 12th.

TyTy + Garuba = $4,908,840
McGee = $5,734,280

G: Kyrie........... Curry, TyTy
G: Green......... THJ, Hardy
F: Luka........... GWill, Exum
F: Kleber......... O-Max, Garuba
C: Holmes....... Lively, Powell

More yutes! 

[SleepingHero]

Trade McGee for TyTy and Garuba? Not sure what it will take, but I think it can only be done on Sep 12th.

TyTy + Garuba = $4,908,840
McGee = $5,734,280

G: Kyrie........... Curry, TyTy
G: Green......... THJ, Hardy
F: Luka........... GWill, Exum
F: Kleber......... O-Max, Garuba
C: Holmes....... Lively, Powell

More yutes! 

That'd be an interesting move. However, it doesn't necessarily address the Mavs most dire need for a starting center. 

That said, the Garuba believers are intent that he just needs a chance and he'll break out as one of the best switch PF/C in the league. To be able to dump McGee and grab him might prove to be a move we'd be singing praises of a couple of years from now.

I'd imagine that OKC asks for a 2nd rounder, as they've been doing in practically every trade this offseason that involves them taking on money (although not for Bertans interestingly enough). Perhaps the Mavs letting them get below the roster limit is enough of a payment? Still I think Presti asks for one of the SAS 2nds, and at that point the deal looks a lot less interesting to me.

Shifting gears, the real trade I'm pining for is Valanciunas. Y'all remember when earlier this summer the Pels were rumored and ready to move on from the big man? They're about 3 mil over the tax, and I have to imagine they are still interested in getting below that. The Pels might be uniquely interested in taking cheap contracts to fill their rotation and get below the tax, as they are one of the few teams in the league with a 3-star payroll. 

Perhaps we can work OKC into a 3 team deal and the Mavs facilitate:

DAL: Valanciunas+Garuba (or any of OKC young guys below 4.5 mil that can be absorbed into the TPE). 
Pels: THJ+Ty Ty+Robinson-Earl
OKC: Larry Nance Jr. + one future 2nd from DAL

Everybody gets what they want here. Mavs get their starting center that is clear cut above Powell+Holmes. He is also on a 1 year contract so the potential to stunt Lively is reduced. Valanciunas also is a 36.8% shooter (albeit on low attempts) for spot up 3s, which means he could theoretically play next to Powell or Holmes if needed (although unlikely). Pels used similar lineups with Val+Jaxson Hayes with middling success. He can be the bruiser when needed and Holmes can be the de-facto PnR bench guy. Mavs still remain 2 mil under the tax and Garuba is injury insurance for Maxi.

Pelicans get their shooter they've been searching for who they've had interest in the past. They get Alvarado injury insurance, and a 6'9 switchable 4 that is in the mold of Nance Jr. on a cheaper contract (and isn't as good). They also get right below the tax line by about 800k.

OKC cash in on some young prospects, pick up a 2nd, and reduce their roster to 18. After what I assume a Bertans+Dipo waive they'd be at 16 and really only have to lose 1 young guy vs. 3. 


If you can't get through the wall of text, then to summarize, I think there is potential with the Pels for a Valanciunas deal and we can work a 3-team with OKC to where every team can get something that they want.

[cow]

And about your willingness to give up a 1st round pick (an unprotected one after Luka's contract expires!) and some 2nds to get off of McGee's deal a couple years early - goodness.

Except I didn't say this.  Read next time.

[F Gump]

That'd be an interesting move. However, it doesn't necessarily address the Mavs most dire need for a starting center. 

That said, the Garuba believers are intent that he just needs a chance and he'll break out as one of the best switch PF/C in the league. To be able to dump McGee and grab him might prove to be a move we'd be singing praises of a couple of years from now.

I'd imagine that OKC asks for a 2nd rounder, as they've been doing in practically every trade this offseason that involves them taking on money (although not for Bertans interestingly enough). Perhaps the Mavs letting them get below the roster limit is enough of a payment? Still I think Presti asks for one of the SAS 2nds, and at that point the deal looks a lot less interesting to me.

Shifting gears, the real trade I'm pining for is Valanciunas. Y'all remember when earlier this summer the Pels were rumored and ready to move on from the big man? They're about 3 mil over the tax, and I have to imagine they are still interested in getting below that. The Pels might be uniquely interested in taking cheap contracts to fill their rotation and get below the tax, as they are one of the few teams in the league with a 3-star payroll. 

Perhaps we can work OKC into a 3 team deal and the Mavs facilitate:

DAL: Valanciunas+Garuba (or any of OKC young guys below 4.5 mil that can be absorbed into the TPE). 
Pels: THJ+Ty Ty+Robinson-Earl
OKC: Larry Nance Jr. + one future 2nd from DAL

Everybody gets what they want here. Mavs get their starting center that is clear cut above Powell+Holmes. He is also on a 1 year contract so the potential to stunt Lively is reduced. Valanciunas also is a 36.8% shooter (albeit on low attempts) for spot up 3s, which means he could theoretically play next to Powell or Holmes if needed (although unlikely). Pels used similar lineups with Val+Jaxson Hayes with middling success. He can be the bruiser when needed and Holmes can be the de-facto PnR bench guy. Mavs still remain 2 mil under the tax and Garuba is injury insurance for Maxi.

Pelicans get their shooter they've been searching for who they've had interest in the past. They get Alvarado injury insurance, and a 6'9 switchable 4 that is in the mold of Nance Jr. on a cheaper contract (and isn't as good). They also get right below the tax line by about 800k.

OKC cash in on some young prospects, pick up a 2nd, and reduce their roster to 18. After what I assume a Bertans+Dipo waive they'd be at 16 and really only have to lose 1 young guy vs. 3. 


If you can't get through the wall of text, then to summarize, I think there is potential with the Pels for a Valanciunas deal and we can work a 3-team with OKC to where every team can get something that they want.

While I want to like the idea, 2 things to me are deal-killers, both of them major:
1 Mavs are already overloaded with bigs, and here we are trading 1 wing for 2 bigs. No can do.
2 I'm told Val lost a step (or maybe 3-4) last season, and his defense is now iffy. Not interested in that.

While not a deal-killer, I'd also object to the Mavs giving away picks just to give them. That's a Cuban motif, and it's bad. This is not a steal for the Mavs at all, and in fact they probably get the worst end of the deal [THJ is arguably the best player in this trade, and they solve problems for BOTH the Pels ($$) and OKC (numbers)]. The team getting a pick or two in this deal, if anyone, should be DAL.

[F Gump]

Except I didn't say this.  Read next time.

Yeah you did. Read what YOU said (and read what YOU responded to) the next time.

A trade was suggested in which the Mavs give up 1sr R Pick (of which they only have 1) as part of the outgoing, as was McGee. Post 5374.

I replied with the idea I would love to see McGee traded, but no interest in a trade with the Mavs only 1st outgoing [and more picks were mentioned too], even if McGee is outbound.

YOU chose to object, and say that you HAVE TO pay something to get rid of McGee (you made it a point to say "McGee's contract might require a FRP ..."), so ....

And I responded I wasn't interested. (" Not interested in the least. He can be trade filler. He can be parked on the bench. Maybe be of help in practices. I see no reason to use draft capital too, in addition to paying him, and I think the media assertions that he is definitely gone are misguided (either by over-assuming media, or by short-sighted front office people, if there's not a trade coming where he will be filler). It would NOT surprise me if he actually ends up going nowhere, despite what we are being told by media.")

YOU countered again, upping your argument by adding that  "getting off of McGee's contract inexpensively is just a dream."

And again, I said I'm still not interested in such a deal -- don't have any real need to move McGee, and certainly not at that sort of price where Dallas' 1st is being mentioned.

That was my point all along. It never changed. You started in arguing with me. And kept on arguing. My point never changed.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...75046?s=20

NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
James Harden on IG ?



https://twitter.com/RTNBA/status/1682145...00355?s=20

NBA Retweet (@RTNBA)
James Harden removed “NBA Player for the Philadelphia 76ers” and the location of Philadelphia, PA. from his Twitter bio.

Same with his IG. ☕️

[cow]

Yeah you did. Read what YOU said the next time.

A trade was suggested in which the Mavs give up 1sr R Pick (of which they only have 1) as part of the outgoing, as was McGee. Post 5374.

I replied I would love to see McGee traded, but no interest in a trade with 1st outgoing, even if McGee is outbound.

YOU chose to object, and say that you HAVE TO pay something to get rid of McGee (" McGee's contract might require a FRP ..."), so ....

And I responded I wasn't interested. (" Not interested in the least. He can be trade filler. He can be parked on the bench. Maybe be of help in practices. I see no reason to use draft capital too, in addition to paying him, and I think the media assertions that he is definitely gone are misguided (either by over-assuming media, or by short-sighted front office people, if there's not a trade coming where he will be filler). It would NOT surprise me if he actually ends up going nowhere, despite what we are being told by media.")

YOU countered again, arguing that  "getting off of McGee's contract inexpensively is just a dream."

And again, I said I'm still not interested in such a deal -- don't have any real need to move McGee, and certainly not at that sort of price where Dallas' 1st is being mentioned. That was my point all along, and if you want to start arguing with me about my point, and keep arguing, then it's on you.

Get off your fucking high horse.  I'm telling you what it would cost to get off of McGee and NOT saying that the Mavs should pay the price which I implicitly pointed out and which you conveniently ignore*.  If you want to be a dick, at least come correct.  This of course is made all the more funny considering our opinions on the matter are largely the same.  If it were cheap to move off of McGee, he'd be gone.  It's not worth the cost to move him so we probably will not.  Further, it's not an argument, it's a discussion, kind of the point of message boards. I wasn't trying to sell you on anything, just offering my thoughts on the cost of moving McGee which you twisted and selectively quoted which is annoying. So yes, YOU need to learn to read.

*"That's not me advocating to send out our FRP or to pick swap it to move him."
*"I'm not purposing anything."

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...83557?s=20

NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
Draymond Green doesn’t have a relationship with Jonathan Kuminga, per @MontePooleNBCS

"[Draymond Green & Jonathan Kuminga's non-relationship] is a problem and it can only be fixed by Draymond. The new contract implies the Warriors believe he can fix it, but around the league there are a lot of people saying 'I don't know.'"

---

Yeah you did. Read what YOU said (and read what YOU responded to) the next time.

A trade was suggested in which the Mavs give up 1sr R Pick (of which they only have 1) as part of the outgoing, as was McGee. Post 5374.

I replied with the idea I would love to see McGee traded, but no interest in a trade with the Mavs only 1st outgoing [and more picks were mentioned too], even if McGee is outbound.

YOU chose to object, and say that you HAVE TO pay something to get rid of McGee (you made it a point to say "McGee's contract might require a FRP ..."), so ....

And I responded I wasn't interested. (" Not interested in the least. He can be trade filler. He can be parked on the bench. Maybe be of help in practices. I see no reason to use draft capital too, in addition to paying him, and I think the media assertions that he is definitely gone are misguided (either by over-assuming media, or by short-sighted front office people, if there's not a trade coming where he will be filler). It would NOT surprise me if he actually ends up going nowhere, despite what we are being told by media.")

YOU countered again, upping your argument by adding that  "getting off of McGee's contract inexpensively is just a dream."

And again, I said I'm still not interested in such a deal -- don't have any real need to move McGee, and certainly not at that sort of price where Dallas' 1st is being mentioned.

That was my point all along. It never changed. You started in arguing with me. And kept on arguing. My point never changed.

Get off your fucking high horse.  I'm telling you what it would cost to get off of McGee and NOT saying that the Mavs should pay the price which I implicitly pointed out and which you conveniently ignore.  If you want to be a dick, at least come correct.  This of course is made all the more funny considering our opinions on the matter are largely the same.  If it were cheap to move off of McGee, he'd be gone.  It's not worth the cost to move him so we probably will not.  So yes, YOU need to learn to read.

Alright guys going to put my mod cap on for the first time in forever here. Lets walk away from this discussion here and focus on other Mav related things. There will be literally no constructive communication if we continue down this impasse. Its not worth it. Might I add, it's not that serious.

I'll be deleting future posts regarding this conversation.

[KillerLeft]

SH has the best mod cap.

[SleepingHero]

SH has the best mod cap.

How'd you get my modeling photo...?

That hat only costs 4 rent payments, totally worth it!

[SleepingHero]

While I want to like the idea, 2 things to me are deal-killers, both of them major:
1 Mavs are already overloaded with bigs, and here we are trading 1 wing for 2 bigs. No can do.
2 I'm told Val lost a step (or maybe 3-4) last season, and his defense is now iffy. Not interested in that.

While not a deal-killer, I'd also object to the Mavs giving away picks just to give them. That's a Cuban motif, and it's bad. This is not a steal for the Mavs at all, and in fact they probably get the worst end of the deal [THJ is arguably the best player in this trade, and they solve problems for BOTH the Pels ($$) and OKC (numbers)]. The team getting a pick or two in this deal, if anyone, should be DAL.

Ok, fair on all those points. Let me go through them.

Regarding 1), yes the Mavs are big-heavy. Currently they have Maxi, Omax (are we counting him?), Holmes, Powell, Lively, and McGee. That's 6. But McGee's time here is all but done. He is not going to see the court again from the Mavs. Either he's waived, benched, or traded, but in the end it doesn't matter. So we're down to 5. Lively as much as we all want him to make an impact day 1, I think he's going to take time. I also think the Mavs believe this as well if we take McMahon's G-League comment to heart. So that leaves realistically a big rotation of Maxi, Holmes, maybe OMax and Powell all splitting minutes at the 4 and 5. There is definitely some room for minutes to be soaked up here. Especially if we're trying to relegate Powell to bench cheerleader for the majority of the time.

2)- If that is the case, then that should only further embolden the Mavs to capitalize and perhaps get some draft capital here. Should Valanciunas have taken a step back, then it only makes sense to have him play a reduced 20mpg role and have him start the 1st and 3rd quarter. His expiring contract means there is no future cap strangulation for an aging big. Further I'm not necessarily interested in Valanciunas as a defensive stopper, as he's never been that. But as a rebounder and potential floor spacer he'd fill a role that I believe we desperately need. We have no size at the center position. We ranked dead last in rebounds as a team and points in the paint. We we're 18th in the league for opponent points in the paint. We need a big bruising center. And here is a potential deal where the Mavs can get one and perhaps as you point out get draft compensation since we're sending the best player in the deal.

Is there a world where the Mavs can use the 2 2nds they have and get either a 2025 FRP or a 2027 FRP? Or maybe even a 2029 FRP? OKC has so many 2025 firsts (although 3 of them are littered with heavy protections). NOP has 2 firsts in 26 and 28 from the Holiday trade. There is a lot there.

[RGP1981]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...4527575046

NBA Retweet (@RTNBA)
James Harden removed “NBA Player for the Philadelphia 76ers” and the location of Philadelphia, PA. from his Twitter bio.

Same with his IG. ☕️

Honeybuns Harden about to bust out the gut again.

[RGP1981]

Shifting gears, the real trade I'm pining for is Valanciunas.

Perhaps we can work OKC into a 3 team deal and the Mavs facilitate:

DAL: Valanciunas+Garuba (or any of OKC young guys below 4.5 mil that can be absorbed into the TPE). 
Pels: THJ+Ty Ty+Robinson-Earl
OKC: Larry Nance Jr. + one future 2nd from DAL

Really not liking the imagined fit (in my head) of Valanciunas with Luka and Kyrie. The Mavs need someone with more mobility. If you look on Pelicans Report, even Pels fans feel the same about Jonas although their team has more mobile defenders.

I think it's wiser to stick with Holmes temporarily, until a better opportunity than Jonas comes along. Also, the flip side of Jonas being an expiring contract... THJ can yet be used in an out-going trade next summer, while Jonas can't be unless extended and who knows what that will cost and for how many years. Better a known than an unknown, since neither should be in this roster's long-term plans IMO.

By the way, about Garuba, only thinking there is it is nice to have options. Not really expecting much. Guess the hope is he might become a serviceable backup big who can fit with Kleber for some portions of games... like:

- Kyrie, Green, Luka, Garuba, Kleber.

I much prefer Jarred Vanderbilt though, if the Mavs FO can get the Lakers to part with him. Not only for his defense but it would also be real nice if his fitness and mobility levels could motivate some others on the roster to improve their own.

The main contenders next season seem to be Nuggets, Suns, Lakers and Celtics. Green and Vando would be a nice defensive duo to sic on some of their key players like Murray-MPJ, Booker-Durant, Reaves-AD, Brown-Tatum.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16823...97827?s=20

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
Free agent G Wesley Matthews has agreed on a one-year deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell ESPN. Matthews, 36, joins the Hawks after two seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks.

[The Jom]

Thankfully some Wes news. That will surely put this surly board in a better mood. (Not.)

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...95105?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
PJ Tucker has been mentioned in the James Harden trade talks to the Clippers, per @MikeAScotto

“PJ Tucker, Harden’s longtime teammate with the Rockets and Sixers, has come up in trade discussions between the 76ers and Clippers, league sources told HoopsHype. The Clippers covet Tucker’s ability to guard multiple positions and defend the league’s top opposing scorers. Tucker is owed $11 million this upcoming year and has a $11.54 million player option for the 2024-25 season.”

[KillerLeft]

Interesting tidbits here, including some insight as to why Brown probably wasn’t the fit in Dallas some thought he would’ve been:

https://youtu.be/VpjddAGgwGE

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/Dc3daM/status/1682400172213522438

Skyline Report (ATL news & rumors)
@Dc3daM
*thinking emoji* *eyeglass thinking emoji* *smirk emoji*


Remember that supposed ATL insider that claimed the Siakam trade was all but completed? Well he's back.

He also retweeted this:

Vegas Sports
@LV_Dalton
Sources are telling me the Atlanta Hawks have a trade package that the Raptors are willing to accept which would land Pascal Siakam with the Hawks.

The reason it’s not done already is because the Hawks are worried that Siakam would not resign with them.

Ongoing situation to keep an eye on