Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[MFFL]

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status...51584?s=12&t=40R2DnShDlW6MCVGNB2h

@KeithSmithNBA
I talked to two different teams this morning and both independently mentioned that they are monitoring the Thunder and what happens with the roster.

One exec told me "Some good players are going to get cut from OKC and we all need to be ready to jump when that happens."

And they have 4 #1 picks next year and 4 #1 picks in 2025

[DallasMaverick]

Yeah, I don’t think Chicago will give him anything close to $10M, but it’s interesting that they can pay more than the minimum. 

Let’s say they offer double the vet min: like $5-6M…it would greatly behoove Wood, imo, to take the minimum from either MIA or LAL where he can easily earn a rotation spot on a good team that people actually care about. The best thing he can do is show that he can exist on a contender without being a disappointment in some way. Is that what we expect him to do, or do we think he’ll take the bigger offer from CHI (assuming one exists)? That will tell us something about him.

Why would Chicago bid against themselves?

If the only offers Wood will get is at the vet min, shouldn’t Chicago offer vet min plus a couple hundred thousand?

[LifeAquatic]

I think multiple playmaker/all star types is probably a necessary thing if they want to contend. Even Dirk always had someone else, despite the Mavs taking grief for how little talent they put around him. First, there was Nash and Finley (how dumb were they to break that group up) and the truth is that Terry ran the pick and roll with Dirk amazingly. They made art together - probably one of the 5 best pick and roll duos in the history of the league. 

We might not think so much of Jamal Murray, but this past year he was probably more effective than a lot of names that ring out more. This exercise could go on and on. In a general sense, I’m sure we’re all on the same page about needing multiple creators of offense.

Your question about the overlap involved with Luka and Kyrie is an interesting one. There are times when I wonder if Luka will even be a PG for his entire NBA career. He’ll always be great with the ball in his hands, both scoring and passing, but he has been wearing down a bit at the end of seasons, recently, especially last year. He also seems incapable of doing anything but walking the ball up the court every time. The way he uses pace in his 1-on-1 play is second to none, but he doesn’t seem to get how advantageous it would be for the pace of the TEAM’s play to be unpredictable. Or, he has to conserve so much energy that he CAN’T play any other way.

Now, we’re hearing that he’s trying to get back in bubble shape. That’s encouraging, I think, if he’s going to be the main PG. But, if weight continues to be a problem as he ages (relatively, it’s not like he’s Zion) I wonder if it doesn’t ultimately make sense to have another guy be the PG who brings the ball up, assesses the scene, looking for a way to press or a mismatch somewhere before setting Luka up to go to work. In other words, make him a forward on BOTH ends, albeit an exceptionally great playmaking forward.

Also, the Mavs have slowly but surely been turning into the Harden Rockets, a team on which 4-6 players are asked to play defense and then make shots when Luka creates them. Great on paper, but that’s a difficult rhythm for players to thrive in, and the best teams always seem to understand that when everyone touches the ball, good things happen.

Kyrie understands all of that. I don’t know how well they’ll fit, but one training camp will be enough. We should know by Christmas if it’s a promising fit, I think. What I’ll be looking for is something more synergetic than “my turn, your turn” where both of them are engaged when they’re off-ball, rather than resting. It’s obviously Luka’s team, but if I’m being honest I have a little more faith in Kyrie’s understanding of how to do that off-ball thing right now.

Agree with this. After watching Kyrie play with the rest of the team while Luka was out, it was clear to me that Luka is the one that needs to adapt his game or else the Mavs will go the way of the Harden Rockets.  For me he either adapts or not. If he were to refuse to adapt his game then I wouldn't want him long term anyway and would seek to maximize his value. I want no part of a Harden Rockets style team. 

Luka seems smart enough to understand this, but having had so much success playing one way it may be hard for him to do it. If he does, he can be one of the all time great offensive players. Hopefully we get some Kyrie/Luka pick and roll this season.

[mvossman]

Agree with this. After watching Kyrie play with the rest of the team while Luka was out, it was clear to me that Luka is the one that needs to adapt his game or else the Mavs will go the way of the Harden Rockets.  For me he either adapts or not. If he were to refuse to adapt his game then I wouldn't want him long term anyway and would seek to maximize his value. I want no part of a Harden Rockets style team. 

Luka seems smart enough to understand this, but having had so much success playing one way it may be hard for him to do it. If he does, he can be one of the all time great offensive players. Hopefully we get some Kyrie/Luka pick and roll this season.

My understanding was that he did not play like this in Euro League where he had his most success.  I feel like Rick basically designed Luka ball as the most effective offense given the limited options on the roster, and Luka is struggling to break the habit.

[KillerLeft]

My understanding was that he did not play like this in Euro League where he had his most success.  I feel like Rick basically designed Luka ball as the most effective offense given the limited options on the roster, and Luka is struggling to break the habit.

Well, except it wasn't quite like this in the first couple of Carlisle offenses based around Luka. It has gotten more and more like that every year. Then, we had the infamous Donnie Nelson quote in the media about how Luka still had a little to learn about when and how to give up the ball. He didn't mean it in the way Twitter ran with it, but he got rooooooaaaaasted over that interview. I remember thinking then that he was right, and I still do. 

You make a great point though that design and coaching intent might be a huge part of what we're seeing. I would feel so much better about where the Mavs were headed if I had more respect for what Kidd brings to the table. I'm going to try like heck to go into this season giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[KillerLeft]

Why would Chicago bid against themselves?

If the only offers Wood will get is at the vet min, shouldn’t Chicago offer vet min plus a couple hundred thousand?

I mean, it depends. Do they want Wood? Do you think a couple hundred thousand would make YOU choose Chicago over LA or MIA? I am 1000% sure it would not have that effect on me. 

This question misses the point of my post so entirely I feel like you're trolling me. The dollar amount wasn't important, really. Just insert whatever number you believe Chicago would offer that might be viewed by Wood as an attractive alternative to playing with LeBron or Jimmy Butler in one of the two most sought after lifestyle cites in the US, both with far superior teams to boot. 

The question I find interesting is: if he followed the money rather than the quality of opportunity at this stage, what would that tell us about his understanding of why things haven't worked out for him to this point? 

It's all hypothetical, obviously. I literally couldn't care less what happens to him.

[DallasMaverick]

I mean, it depends. Do they want Wood? Do you think a couple hundred thousand would make YOU choose Chicago over LA or MIA? I am 1000% sure it would not have that effect on me. 

This question misses the point of my post so entirely I feel like you're trolling me. The dollar amount wasn't important, really. Just insert whatever number you believe Chicago would offer that might be viewed by Wood as an attractive alternative to playing with LeBron or Jimmy Butler in one of the two most sought after lifestyle cites in the US, both with far superior teams to boot. 

The question I find interesting is: if he followed the money rather than the quality of opportunity at this stage, what would that tell us about his understanding of why things haven't worked out for him to this point? 

It's all hypothetical, obviously. I literally couldn't care less what happens to him.

Hmm...

Actually, from an income tax standpoint, Chicago would be the worst of the three, then LA, and best Miami.

But at some point, the money overcomes whatever other benefits he might perceive in a situation.  
So I agree with you - there's some delta that tips the scales.

If Chicago really wants him, there will be negotiations, and Wood's agent would certainly be playing the LA and Miami opportunity cards.  But I think the team will be negotiating from the vet min upwards, not the $10m exception downwards.

[KillerLeft]

But I think the team will be negotiating from the vet min upwards, not the $10m exception downwards.

Oh, obviously. 

That's the whole point: if you're Wood, what is your priority here? Assuming the Lakers/Heat minimum offers are really out there (I do), what amount of money would entice you to choose a clearly lesser opportunity in Chicago? Would there even BE an amount, since keeping your head down and not upsetting the boat for a season on a real, live contender for a year could open up even better financial opportunities in the future? 

What I'm saying is that at this point, I think it's kind of indicative that he's still out there, trying to find more money. Clearly, the market doesn't like him. A more mature, enlightened man might recognize that getting a chance to play with LeBron for a year, doing a good job and then having the LA Lakers organization saying good things about him next summer (something the Mavs clearly aren't doing) might come with a greater benefit than whatever extra dough he can squeeze out of Chicago now. That would be more of the same thing that has gotten him here, imo.

[RGP1981]

Oh, obviously. 

That's the whole point: if you're Wood, what is your priority here? Assuming the Lakers/Heat minimum offers are really out there (I do), what amount of money would entice you to choose a clearly lesser opportunity in Chicago? Would there even BE an amount, since keeping your head down and not upsetting the boat for a season on a real, live contender for a year could open up even better financial opportunities in the future? 

What I'm saying is that at this point, I think it's kind of indicative that he's still out there, trying to find more money. Clearly, the market doesn't like him. A more mature, enlightened man might recognize that getting a chance to play with LeBron for a year, doing a good job and then having the LA Lakers organization saying good things about him next summer (something the Mavs clearly aren't doing) might come with a greater benefit than whatever extra dough he can squeeze out of Chicago now. That would be more of the same thing that has gotten him here, imo.

Caruso, Lavine, PWill, DeRozan, Vucevic... (or)... Vincent, Reaves, Rui/Vando, Lebron, AD

I would lean towards the Bulls if I was Wood. Lebron is a sieve on defense during the regular season and needs everyone else to play extra defense to cover for him. When the Lakers lose due to defense, the blame will be put on Wood instead of on Lebron. Then, he will also be in competition with AD and Lebron for minutes.

Far better to go to Chicago, where they need better offense and he is in competition with Vucevic for minutes.

So... earning more money while not having to be the fall-guy, and competing against a lesser player for minutes to rehab your image... it is a no-brainer AFAIC.

Unless he feels the Lakers are the favorites to win the title in 2024-25 and he wants a ring real bad. Guess they could also use lineups with Rui/Vando at the 3, Wood and AD at the 4 and 5 to give Lebron rest or to cover when he's injured.

[SleepingHero]

The question I find interesting is: if he followed the money rather than the quality of opportunity at this stage, what would that tell us about his understanding of why things haven't worked out for him to this point? 

It's all hypothetical, obviously. I literally couldn't care less what happens to him.

I would say LA would be the riskiest of endeavors for Wood. It's boom or bust there. If he succeeds and remakes his image, the exposure he gets (and the media fawning alone) will be enough to solidify a significant contract come next offseason should he sign for a minimum.

But if he busts...? On that stage? With rabid LA fans and the spotlight glaring the harshest? Sheesh. He might as well kiss his tenure in the NBA goodbye. It almost happened to Westbrook who is/was 10x the talent Wood has ever been. 

Perhaps from that POV, Wood would rather steer far away as he can from La La land and head to less risky waters. One where he has his cake and can eat it too. Chicago isn't like Charlotte, but it certainly isn't at the same level of Los Angeles. He will have media attention there, but there won't be daily/hourly updates like the Warriors/Lakers/Celtics/Miami. I think should he bust there he would/could still find another team he can grift a short term contract. Especially if he can put up decent stats.

I'm still rooting for him to head to the Lakers. A man can hope and dream of a Vando for Wood SnT can't he?

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/kt_3410/status/16818...83072?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A

"There are influential Laker players that do not want the Lakers to sign Christian Wood."

If this is true then Wood's tenure in the NBA may be done already...?

[KillerLeft]

https://twitter.com/kt_3410/status/16818...83072?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A

"There are influential Laker players that do not want the Lakers to sign Christian Wood."

If this is true then Wood's tenure in the NBA may be done already...?

Sad times.

[ItsGoTime]

https://twitter.com/kt_3410/status/16818...83072?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A

"There are influential Laker players that do not want the Lakers to sign Christian Wood."

If this is true then Wood's tenure in the NBA may be done already...?

Wonder if that has to do with a call to Kidd from those “influential players”. Not an unreasonable possibility seeing as though he coached those guys for a season and his distaste for Wood from the beginning.

[Hypermav]

Or LA is bluffing a little to get Wood to take vet min. I would love to get Vanderbilt but that seems out of reach here. Maybe we could get Drummond and then waive McGee. We would have a stable of centers with different specialties. (or no specialties lol)

[omahen]

OKC made the first cut with Gay being the first victim. 5 more to go

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...6490734592

[SleepingHero]

Would you guys make a trade of:

THJ+McGee+2027 1st+2nds for DeRozan+Drummond?

[KillerLeft]

Would you guys make a trade of:

THJ+McGee+2027 1st+2nds for DeRozan+Drummond?

I would not. 

Don't want either of them. DeRozan would be a THIRD player whose value is questionable when he doesn't have the ball. "Questionable" is putting it rather mildly, actually. I think he'd be a decent fit with either Luka or Kyrie, but not with both. 

Drummond is just a player I don't ever want to be a Maverick under any circumstances. I suppose I would prefer one year of him over two more years of McGee, but not to the tune of all the remaining draft capital.

[F Gump]

Would you guys make a trade of:

THJ+McGee+2027 1st+2nds for DeRozan+Drummond?

Close. I was with you on the THJ and McGee parts.

But you lost me at 2027 1st, big time. Again at 2nds. Again at Derozan and at Drummond. But, allllmooooosssssttttt.

[dirkfansince1998]

Would you guys make a trade of:

THJ+McGee+2027 1st+2nds for DeRozan+Drummond?

Don´t see the fit for DeRozan next to Luka and Irving. Wouldn´t include a first for players on the wrong side of 30 (unless it´s a no brainer).

[cow]

Close. I was with you on the THJ and McGee parts.

But you lost me at 2027 1st, big time. Again at 2nds. Again at Derozan and at Drummond. But, allllmooooosssssttttt.

McGee's contract might require a FRP, or rather more than one or two SRPs, to get off of (maybe a pick swap?).  That's not me advocating to send out our FRP or to pick swap it to move him.  I'm just thinking the cost might be more than we are willing to afford.