Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[Smitty]

Not to belabor, but just to make clear: this is basically what Charlotte wants to pay him. He wants WAY more, witch is 100% of the reason he has not re-signed yet.

This is not a situation where the player or team want to improve on one another. This is ALL about them not seeing eye to eye on the contract. The second he agrees to that price point he’s locked up as a Hornet.

I'm just saying what I think he's worth. You can check my record and find pretty quickly how much I've talked about my love for PJ the last two years but not even I would want the Mavs to give him 20M+ or as some have suggested, trade Green for him. He's very good but not a 'final piece'

Edit: I would however trade them Maxi and the above contract. Maxi's days are limited, playing ~30 games last year and only getting older.

[KillerLeft]

Ah, I hadn’t paid attention enough to know he was offered that much. I wrote him off as ungettable a while ago thinking Cha would resign him eventually. Very little interest in that case. Too much risk that he is not the guy we’re thinking he is.

Yeah, this is why I felt it was over with PJW when Williams signed here. 

That’s a risk you might take if you literally don’t have that 4/5 type, because you definitely needed a longer defender like that. But now, without a clear, fool proof way to plug him in and without such a dire need, I feel like that level of financial commitment would better be made in another area. 

And frankly, I think Williams might be the better fit. Kudos to the Mavs for getting him for substantially cheaper. 

Would still love to have PJW in a vacuum. Just don’t think it makes as much sense for all involved as it did before Williams (and O-max).

[MFFL]

Not to belabor, but just to make clear: this is basically what Charlotte wants to pay him. He wants WAY more, witch is 100% of the reason he has not re-signed yet.

This is not a situation where the player or team want to improve on one another. This is ALL about them not seeing eye to eye on the contract. The second he agrees to that price point he’s locked up as a Hornet.

That is what PJ wants to STAY in Charlotte. Maybe he'll shave a couple million to play with Luka/Kyrie (not to mention the tax savings in Texas)

[Smitty]

That is what PJ wants to STAY in Charlotte. Maybe he'll shave a couple million to play with Luka/Kyrie (not to mention the tax savings in Texas)

To your point, Gwill did mention the tax benefits in an interview. It finally worked!!!

Williams told The Athletic that his decision to sign a $54 million deal with Dallas over a $48 million offer from Boston was "a little strategic" and that the gap between the two offers was larger than it might seem.

"In Boston, it's…$48 million with the millionaire's tax, so $54 million in Dallas is really like $58 million in Boston," Williams said.

[Mavs2021]

Absolutely. No interest in WAY overpaying him. I think with the contract GWill got, $16M is even high, but because the rest of the payroll is set up well, the gamble is solid.

Grant Williams´ best season 13M/year (worthy)

7.8 PPG
4.6 RPG
1.7 APG
0.5 SPG
0.4 BPG

PJ Washington´s best season 16M/year (unworthy)

12.9 PPG
6.5 RPG
2.5 APG
1.1 SPG
1.2 BPG

Then people here said 16M/year for Markkanen was an overpay. Now it might be the best non-rookie contract in the whole league.

If you can get PJ Washington, you do it. The point of the exercise was to get younger and improve the talent-base, not win a championship next year. That´s just silly talk. If the MBT think they can compete for the title with the current roster, then all their excellent moves are just a result of luck not good judgment.

Just like I hope they don´t expect any reasonable THJ cake to include a McCherry on top.

You morons f***** that up. Literally every person in the NBA, except you, knew that was one of the dumbest ideas of all-time, including McGee and his agent. So own it or s/w it.

[SweetFidelia]

Yes I must believe in him more than you. And that’s okay. There’s no way for any of us to know what he can do right now, because we haven’t seen him play in a while. 6 months ago in a spot start he got 16 & 11. I don’t think he’s lost a step or anything. Probably overpaid, like DP over the years. But he lost his job and role when they got sabonis. I don’t expect him to be the reason the Mavs are successful but I don’t think he’ll be the reason the Mavs aren’t successful either.

https://youtu.be/ylpDh9chwak

Smitty, I like the way you are thinking and feel much the same about Holmes. I can't remember if I posted some of my thoughts as I usually delete them right after I write them, and they never see the light of day.  Anywho, a lot on this board said he was washed and trash in 21-22, and I just don't agree. 

Under Walton:       17 G   27:21 MIN   2.8 ORB   9.9 TRB   1.65 BLK   14.24 PTS   69% FG%   84% FT%  
Gentry pre-trade:   20 G   24:18 MIN   1.9 ORB   6.3 TRB   0.95 BLK   9.75 PTS     68% FG%   68% FT%  
(realize in this 20 game span he suffered 2 eye injuries including a lacerated eyeball from a Bamba elbow hence the goggle look)

TOTALS PRE-SABONIS TRADE
37 G   25:42 MIN   2.3 ORB   8.0 TRB   1.16 BLK   11.81 PTS   68% FG%   76% FT%

How many Mavs centers have sniffed over 11 pts / 8 reb / 1 block in the last 12 years?  That would be 4.  Tyson in 14-15, DAJ in 18-19, KP, and Wood.  [Man, we've had some really crappy center play since the Championship.]
 
Then the Kings acquired Sabonis, and you know the rest.  Mike Brown's offense is not really geared to Holmes's strengths, and Holmes was definitely in Brown's dog house. (I think I heard Holmes just stated he was "in jail.")  Only 42 games played @ 8.3 minutes per (in 13, he didn't even get 4 minutes) and a boatload of DNPs.  I don't buy that he's done....yet.

If not, can he play good team defense and be in the right spots?  No idea, but his offensive style fits ours hand in glove.  I'm good with 4 we have for now sans McGee.  I'd certainly not want another developmental center.  I'd much rather have another reliable wing player that was able to defend 1-3 with some proficiency.  I wish I knew who that was.

[KillerLeft]

That is what PJ wants to STAY in Charlotte. Maybe he'll shave a couple million to play with Luka/Kyrie (not to mention the tax savings in Texas)

A) that’s your speculation. 

B) he’s RFA, and the Mavs can’t even offer the full MLE right now (which CHA’s front office types would high-five each other as they matched, anyway).

Basically, PJW and Charlotte reached an impasse on negotiations. It’s his right as RFA to go and try to drum up an offer he likes (so far, he hasn’t found it, which should tell us something) and from context it seems like the team was willing to play ball a little to extend that opportunity for him past the cap space teams. 

What they’re HOPING is that that he’ll come back from what’s out there willing to come down much closer to the offer they’ve already made. I haven’t seen any indication that it’s not working, have you? He’s now threatening to sign the QO and go into UFA next summer. This is always the last resort in these situations. It’s very likely a bluff, because other than Philly I doubt there will be much attractive cap space out there next summer. 

I doubt the Mavericks are even talking to PJW’s people at this point (wouldn’t hate it if they were, just connecting dots) but I feel pretty confident when I say there’s a 0% chance of him playing in Dallas next year for the contract people seem to want. The only path (and even this is a long shot) to acquiring PJW is to:

1) talk yourself into paying him much more than CHA is willing to offer, and enough to interest him in signing (second part might be even higher than the first part)

2) offer CHA something to facilitate losing a player that I’m not sure they are definitely going to lose. From where I’m sitting it seems like they played this one pretty well.

[Smitty]

Smitty, I like the way you are thinking and feel much the same about Holmes. I can't remember if I posted some of my thoughts as I usually delete them right after I write them, and they never see the light of day.  Anywho, a lot on this board said he was washed and trash in 21-22, and I just don't agree. 

Under Walton:       17 G   27:21 MIN   2.8 ORB   9.9 TRB   1.65 BLK   14.24 PTS   69% FG%   84% FT%  
Gentry pre-trade:   20 G   24:18 MIN   1.9 ORB   6.3 TRB   0.95 BLK   9.75 PTS     68% FG%   68% FT%  
(realize in this 20 game span he suffered 2 eye injuries including a lacerated eyeball from a Bamba elbow hence the goggle look)

TOTALS PRE-SABONIS TRADE
37 G   25:42 MIN   2.3 ORB   8.0 TRB   1.16 BLK   11.81 PTS   68% FG%   76% FT%

How many Mavs centers have sniffed over 11 pts / 8 reb / 1 block in the last 12 years?  That would be 4.  Tyson in 14-15, DAJ in 18-19, KP, and Wood.  [Man, we've had some really crappy center play since the Championship.]
 
Then the Kings acquired Sabonis, and you know the rest.  Mike Brown's offense is not really geared to Holmes's strengths, and Holmes was definitely in Brown's dog house. (I think I heard Holmes just stated he was "in jail.")  Only 42 games played @ 8.3 minutes per (in 13, he didn't even get 4 minutes) and a boatload of DNPs.  I don't buy that he's done....yet.

If not, can he play good team defense and be in the right spots?  No idea, but his offensive style fits ours hand in glove.  I'm good with 4 we have for now sans McGee.  I'd certainly not want another developmental center.  I'd much rather have another reliable wing player that was able to defend 1-3 with some proficiency.  I wish I knew who that was.

You should post more! Great research and thanks for the info!!

[Mavs2021]

Damn. There is no doubt you the guys that would have drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. 

The way you guys ramble on and on about our overcrowded front court rotation, you´d think that if you combined all their career-high stats, they´d at least be significantly better than those of a 24 year old PJ Washington with four years experience.

[KillerLeft]

I still think there are some things that could happen to make Capela to the Mavs possible. Other than that, I think the door has closed on every other scenario we’ve discussed this summer.

In my mind, the possibilities remaining are, in order of likelihood

1) simply dump McGee somehow or even (hopefully not) waive him. Off-season over at that point.

2) grab onto the big move ATL is still clearly trying to make in order to snag Capela. You can tell the Mavs want this because they seem to have approached several different versions of how to acquire Capela. I think this makes a ton of sense and still have some hope, but at this point it’s dependent on other teams agreeing to do business with each other. I don’t think ATL is going to move Capela just to move him.

3) something we’ve heard no reporting about that comes from way out in left field. This isn’t likely at all, imo, but I suppose it’s always a possibility.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Grant Williams´ best season 13M/year (worthy)

7.8 PPG
4.6 RPG
1.7 APG
0.5 SPG
0.4 BPG

PJ Washington´s best season 16M/year (unworthy)

12.9 PPG
6.5 RPG
2.5 APG
1.1 SPG
1.2 BPG

Now post Christian Woods numbers from last year.

[ThisIStheYear]

For the record, I’m in favor of THJ and the ‘27 pick for PJ. We get a third athletic forward, our greatest need, and unload someone from the guard logjam. I way prefer PJ to Capella. The Mavs have done more to shore up the center position than given credit for. They used a lottery pick to bring in not one but two players at the position. That’s actually quite a lot. Get PJ, stay under the tax. You’ve basically fully rebuilt the team with one more off-season to use the new trade flexibility with the MLE before you start getting into repeater taxes and that sort of thing that only a championship level team should do.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

It’s 1:50 AM and PJ Washington is the last girl left at the bar.

Giving him a deal around 4/$80 million would be really bad but giving up the 27 1st for the privilege to give him that contract would make my head explode.

[ItsGoTime]

Grant Williams´ best season 13M/year (worthy)

7.8 PPG
4.6 RPG
1.7 APG
0.5 SPG
0.4 BPG

PJ Washington´s best season 16M/year (unworthy)

12.9 PPG
6.5 RPG
2.5 APG
1.1 SPG
1.2 BPG

Then people here said 16M/year for Markkanen was an overpay. Now it might be the best non-rookie contract in the whole league.

If you can get PJ Washington, you do it. The point of the exercise was to get younger and improve the talent-base, not win a championship next year. That´s just silly talk. If the MBT think they can compete for the title with the current roster, then all their excellent moves are just a result of luck not good judgment.

Just like I hope they don´t expect any reasonable THJ cake to include a McCherry on top.

You morons f***** that up. Literally every person in the NBA, except you, knew that was one of the dumbest ideas of all-time, including McGee and his agent. So own it or s/w it.

PJ will get less of a role on a better team while GWill will get more of a role on a lesser team. Who they play with matters and GWill was a part of the good in Bos, while we don’t fully know if PJ was part of the problem in Cha. Also, I was advocating for a $14M contract for GWill before we knew what he was getting.

That’s my reasoning, you don’t have to agree with it. Both at $14M would be my preference honestly. More than MLE so they wouldn’t easily be replaced next year with another MLE signing. Not too much to reflect the risk.

[Smitty]

A) that’s your speculation. 

B) he’s RFA, and the Mavs can’t even offer the full MLE right now (which CHA’s front office types would high-five each other as they matched, anyway).

Basically, PJW and Charlotte reached an impasse on negotiations. It’s his right as RFA to go and try to drum up an offer he likes (so far, he hasn’t found it, which should tell us something) and from context it seems like the team was willing to play ball a little to extend that opportunity for him past the cap space teams. 

What they’re HOPING is that that he’ll come back from what’s out there willing to come down much closer to the offer they’ve already made. I haven’t seen any indication that it’s not working, have you? He’s now threatening to sign the QO and go into UFA next summer. This is always the last resort in these situations. It’s very likely a bluff, because other than Philly I doubt there will be much attractive cap space out there next summer. 

I doubt the Mavericks are even talking to PJW’s people at this point (wouldn’t hate it if they were, just connecting dots) but I feel pretty confident when I say there’s a 0% chance of him playing in Dallas next year for the contract people seem to want. The only path (and even this is a long shot) to acquiring PJW is to:

1) talk yourself into paying him much more than CHA is willing to offer, and enough to interest him in signing (second part might be even higher than the first part)

2) offer CHA something to facilitate losing a player that I’m not sure they are definitely going to lose. From where I’m sitting it seems like they played this one pretty well.

Insert *Josh Green* for *PJW* and you can just copy+paste and use it for next year if the Mavs don’t get his extension figured out.

---

I still think there are some things that could happen to make Capela to the Mavs possible. Other than that, I think the door has closed on every other scenario we’ve discussed this summer.

In my mind, the possibilities remaining are, in order of likelihood

1) simply dump McGee somehow or even (hopefully not) waive him. Off-season over at that point.

2) grab onto the big move ATL is still clearly trying to make in order to snag Capela. You can tell the Mavs want this because they seem to have approached several different versions of how to acquire Capela. I think this makes a ton of sense and still have some hope, but at this point it’s dependent on other teams agreeing to do business with each other. I don’t think ATL is going to move Capela just to move him.

3) something we’ve heard no reporting about that comes from way out in left field. This isn’t likely at all, imo, but I suppose it’s always a possibility.

After reading the hawks forums you’d think they wanted to move Capela regardless because of him blocking OO. There might be something there even if the Hawks don’t trade for Siakam or KAT.

[KillerLeft]

It’s 1:50 AM and PJ Washington is the last girl left at the bar.

Giving him a deal around 4/$80 million would be really bad but giving up the 27 1st for the privilege to give him that contract would make my head explode.

I’d be ok with the contract in the right situation. It’s a risk, but not a horrible one, and before Williams I’d have argued that Dallas was the perfect situation for that contract to make sense. Now, not so much. 

Totally agree on spending ‘27 on him. Under NO circumstances would I have considered that at any point this summer. A normal 1st, maybe, like the one that went out in the Wood deal. Not one that has be nearly UNPROTECTED in what might be the first post-Luka year. 

I’d spend that pick at some point, but not like this.

[ItsGoTime]

A) that’s your speculation. 

B) he’s RFA, and the Mavs can’t even offer the full MLE right now (which CHA’s front office types would high-five each other as they matched, anyway).

Basically, PJW and Charlotte reached an impasse on negotiations. It’s his right as RFA to go and try to drum up an offer he likes (so far, he hasn’t found it, which should tell us something) and from context it seems like the team was willing to play ball a little to extend that opportunity for him past the cap space teams. 

What they’re HOPING is that that he’ll come back from what’s out there willing to come down much closer to the offer they’ve already made. I haven’t seen any indication that it’s not working, have you? He’s now threatening to sign the QO and go into UFA next summer. This is always the last resort in these situations. It’s very likely a bluff, because other than Philly I doubt there will be much attractive cap space out there next summer. 

I doubt the Mavericks are even talking to PJW’s people at this point (wouldn’t hate it if they were, just connecting dots) but I feel pretty confident when I say there’s a 0% chance of him playing in Dallas next year for the contract people seem to want. The only path (and even this is a long shot) to acquiring PJW is to:

1) talk yourself into paying him much more than CHA is willing to offer, and enough to interest him in signing (second part might be even higher than the first part)

2) offer CHA something to facilitate losing a player that I’m not sure they are definitely going to lose. From where I’m sitting it seems like they played this one pretty well.

Not sure if this thought is in this post, but the only wrinkle to your thoughts is the SnT angle. There is no offer sheet in that scenario for them to match. So if it’s a deal, they are letting him go. Otherwise, you’re right.

[Scott41theMavs]

KL said in the offseason evaluation thread that one of the best things about the offseason was replacing zero long athletic wings with two (GW and OMax). Why not three? Go get PJ.

If Green is included in a trade, any of those three guys can do POA.

Given the ridiculous contracts that have been given to non-winning players (KP, Bertans, Russell, Poole, et al.), I have no problem giving PJ $18 mil per. The only issue there is if GW gets jealous of him. Think about all of the money we threw out the window on TC Matthews, Chandler Parsons, and Harrison Barnes. I was dismayed at every one of those contracts when they were signed, and they all turned out worse than I expected. I guess I'm numbed. Go get the good young player.

[Smitty]

I’d be ok with the contract in the right situation. It’s a risk, but not a horrible one, and before Williams I’d have argued that Dallas was the perfect situation for that contract to make sense. Now, not so much. 

Totally agree on spending ‘27 on him. Under NO circumstances would I have considered that at any point this summer. A normal 1st, maybe, like the one that went out in the Wood deal. Not one that has be nearly UNPROTECTED in what might be the first post-Luka year. 

I’d spend that pick at some point, but not like this.

After FGump laid out the new pick swapping the Mavs have started doing I see the ‘27 FRP being used that way this year, if used at all. A FRP swap and a SRP or two back. I don’t know that they give it up entirely, unless it’s a no-brainer type move.

[ItsGoTime]

After FGump laid out the new pick swapping the Mavs have started doing I see the ‘27 FRP being used that way this year, if used at all. A FRP swap and a SRP or two back. I don’t know that they give it up entirely, unless it’s a no-brainer type move.

Why wouldn’t they just pick swap 28 instead and leave the 27 free and clear in case something big opens up?