Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[KillerLeft]

^

I also dont see Holmes or Powell as starting center or Lively or Omax as for sure rotation players.  I think Mavs want to win now if possible.  They're nice prospects to bring along for the future.

I think there’s a good chance you’re going to be disappointed. That’s a shame, because I’m elated. They basically stopped doing dumb stuff (so far, don’t want to jinx it). 

I think there’s a 100% chance Omax is in the rotation. I think he’ll be a fan favorite by mid November.

[Okstate819]

Then what are the Mavs doing, if not making this years squad a contender? I think missing the playoffs, the Kyrie contract and Luka's eventual supermax have all but signaled that they will try everything to be contenders sooner rather than later. The Mavs are now young enough to take the kind of chances (like trading '27 FRP), to make this team as good as it possibly can be. Next year they will have access to more picks. This is the path they've chosen.

Agree.  They have enough young talent that draft assets could be recouped down the line. They shouldn't hesitate to use the 27 1st for Capela, Allen, or Ayton imo.

[ItsGoTime]

Maybe we’re overthinking this. Here are some simple thoughts:

1) we know they like to start games with 1-5 spread pick and roll, establishing how the defense will approach that before moving on to counters. I doubt that will EVER change, as long as Luka is the driving force of this team. Lively can do that at a passable level right away, I think.

2) we know they want to play a little more drop coverage and protect the paint/defend the rim better. It’s a stated priority. These are Lively’s strengths, and why he vaulted up draft boards. He’s probably not to his final level on this stuff, but they are his strengths.

3) the biggest issue on defense for young bigs is that they’re foul prone. Assuming that will be an issue with Lively, and that they’re planning to play him at all, would you rather those fouls come at the beginning of halves, or later, when the free throws have a chance to sway momentum?

It’s possible that Lively will ONLY get that McGee stretch in the 2nd quarter and not even play in the second half, I guess. But, I actually wouldn’t be totally shocked if he started the first and third quarters, 3-7 minutes in each, depending on how things go.

This does make sense, and maybe we’re actually competitive with the tip for a change (I have to admit I have a weird obsession with that). This is actually the DP WCF playoff run role, so it’s not unheard of for the position. I will say, playing with the starters around the league when they are at their most fresh is a pretty big baptism by fire.

[KillerLeft]

Names I think we need to now be going after, albeit the remaining MLE, S&T with Wood outgoing, J.Green, THJ, 2027FRP, and/or the SRPs we have.

P.Reed
P.Achiuwa
PJ.Washington
D.Hunter
Z.Collins
J.Allen
T.Eason
J.Nurkic

Paul Reed is interesting, and might be gettable now, after the Bamba signing.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status...46464?s=20

Barry Jackson (@flasportsbuzz)
News: Regarding report about message to non Heat teams, Lillard's agent, Aaron Goodwin, tells me: "I do what I should for my client. Some teams I did call. Other teams have called me. It's a respectful relationship with most teams. Truthfully, he wants to play in Miami. Period."


I don't understand why Lillard thinks he can just demand Portland to accept a worse offer just because he wants to play there.

Andy Larsen said it best: https://twitter.com/andyblarsen/status/1...42081?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

Andy Larsen (@andyblarsen)
Respectfully, if Damian Lillard wanted to play in Miami, period, he should not have signed an extension to play for Portland through 2027. Period.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I think there’s a good chance you’re going to be disappointed. That’s a shame, because I’m elated. They basically stopped doing dumb stuff (so far, don’t want to jinx it). 

I think there’s a 100% chance Omax is in the rotation. I think he’ll be a fan favorite by mid November.

I mean Josh Green played 11 minutes per game as a rookie.  But he was basically a non factor to winning or losing.  

Every day, Stein is saying the Mavs will upgrade center if they can help it. The Mavs already tried to trade for Ayton and Capela. If they were happy with Powell starting and Lively playing backup minutes, what do you make of these reports?

The current roster as it stands might force them to play how you want but I definitely do not think that's what the Mavs would prefer to do. That center rotation screams they're punting on this upcoming season.

[cow]

I think he’ll be a fan favorite by mid November.

And I'll mock these Johnny/Jane-come-latelys relentlessly.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Lively played only 20mins/game and had entire games where he was invisible. The kid is RAW. I would say he's 3 years away from being a starter. The FO has pretty said so.

[KillerLeft]

This does make sense, and maybe we’re actually competitive with the tip for a change (I have to admit I have a weird obsession with that). This is actually the DP WCF playoff run role, so it’s not unheard of for the position. I will say, playing with the starters around the league when they are at their most fresh is a pretty big baptism by fire.

Makes even more sense when you consider Powell, at his new salary, as more than appropriate for the “mentor this kid for a couple of years and stay ready in case he needs bailing out of a ton of games” role.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Surprised there's still folks in here after Thybulle got matched suggesting Josh Green trades. If you assume all the smoke around Hardaway is real and he also gets moved, Green is a sure fire everyday started so if you're moving him you better get a starting wing back as well as whatever else you were trying to do with him. I'm honestly very excited to see him in a much more consistent role moving forward, I feel like consistent starter minutes will help get him to more consistent on court play as well.

[KillerLeft]

I mean Josh Green played 11 minutes per game as a rookie.  But he was basically a non factor to winning or losing.  

Every day, Stein is saying the Mavs will upgrade center if they can help it.  The Mavs already tried to trade for Ayton and Capela.  If they were happy with Powell starting and Lively playing backup minutes, what do you make of these reports?

The current roster as it stands might force them to play how you want but I definitely do not think that's what the Mavs would prefer to do.

But all the guys saying that stuff (maybe not Stein, specifically, can’t recall) were also saying Powell wouldn’t be with the team this season.

These plans are fluid. They adapt and change, and the media guys have brief access to them when they’re able to check in, periodically. They’re not kept up to the minute with front office thinking. 

Maybe you’re right, but at this point, the league is announcing deals being made official. There will be some roster filling by teams over the next couple of weeks, and I’m holding out a little hope that some other RFA news might happen today (Paul Reed is a possibility), but come on, doesn’t it feel like the big stuff is done?

Can you remember ANY big trades happening at this point in the process, like ever?

I guess we’re still waiting for the Lillard and Harden situations to be resolved, so that’s different than normal, but I have the feeling the Harden thing will drag out well into the season. Maybe they both will.

Then again, maybe 5 huge things, those guys included, get announced next week, what do I know? All I’m saying is that I hope we can all enjoy all the smart stuff they’ve done this summer without pinning our hopes to some stupid Ayton trade that it sounds like was only a possibility on draft night.

[juanc]

Lively played only 20mins/game and had entire games where he was invisible.  The kid is RAW.  I would say he's 3 years away from being a starter.  The FO has pretty said so.

I need to ask how many Duke games have you watced this year? Especially in the 2nd half of the season? Asking just becouse that is exactly what someone who hasn't really watched him(or watched just the highlights) would say..

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Paul Reed is interesting, and might be gettable now, after the Bamba signing.

Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote:[url=https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?pid=189496#pid189496][/url]

Names I think we need to now be going after, albeit the remaining MLE, S&T with Wood outgoing, J.Green, THJ, 2027FRP, and/or the SRPs we have.

P.Reed
P.Achiuwa
PJ.Washington
D.Hunter
Z.Collins
J.Allen
T.Eason
J.Nurkic

---

Yes.  He kinda fits exactly what we need.

[ItsGoTime]

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status...46464?s=20

Barry Jackson (@flasportsbuzz)
News: Regarding report about message to non Heat teams, Lillard's agent, Aaron Goodwin, tells me: "I do what I should for my client. Some teams I did call. Other teams have called me. It's a respectful relationship with most teams. Truthfully, he wants to play in Miami. Period."


I don't understand why Lillard thinks he can just demand Portland to accept a worse offer just because he wants to play there.

Andy Larsen said it best: https://twitter.com/andyblarsen/status/1...42081?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

Andy Larsen (@andyblarsen)
Respectfully, if Damian Lillard wanted to play in Miami, period, he should not have signed an extension to play for Portland through 2027. Period.

Beautiful retort!

Makes even more sense when you consider Powell, at his new salary, as more than appropriate for the “mentor this kid for a couple of years and stay ready in case he needs bailing out of a ton of games” role.

Ya, the quote from McKinley about his discussion with Lively made me think about the 8 picks per possession Powell sets. Other take away from that conversation was hearing that he’s a reluctant scorer, I’d like a little more confidence from him.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I need to ask how many Duke games have you watced this year? Especially in the 2nd half of the season? Asking just becouse that is exactly what someone who hasn't really watched him(or watched just the highlights) would say..

I followed Duke closely and saw many games.  Only 20mins/game doesn't lead you to believe he's raw?  The FO said that he wouldn't be contributing a lot.  I think it's a fandom thing to think otherwise.  He completely disappeared in the UNC game.

Listen, I love the pick.  It's about time we stop drafting combo guards and getting bigs off the trash heap.  I just think we need to tap the brakes a little.  Do you think he'll get more than 12-15 mins?  I don't.

[KillerLeft]

Beautiful retort!

Ya, the quote from McKinley about his discussion with Lively made me think about the 8 picks per possession Powell sets. Other take away from that conversation was hearing that he’s a reluctant scorer, I’d like a little more confidence from him.

Interesting, but I don’t follow. To what quote are you referring?

[mvossman]

Maybe that's where we differ.  I think Lively is as raw as Josh Green was and will be brought along just as slowly.  I don't really see how you can look at his college season and think he will impact NBA games right away.  Maybe we'll have a slightly better idea after summer league.  In related news...

"Mavericks" rookies Dereck Lively II and O-Max Prosper doing 1-on-0 workouts, as they are not allowed to join live scrimmages and play in summer league until their respective draft day trades are finalized (via @CallieCaplan)  https://streamable.com/5rnu4j

edit: I guess the Lively deal is official so he can play.  Omax not yet.

I'm not saying Lively is the next Jarett Allen, but there are a lot of similarities.  Lively was more impactful in his last two months at Duke than Allen ever was in his one year at Texas.  Allen was a positive impact player at 20 minutes a game his rookie season and started his second.  Different players grow at different rates and there is no telling what Lively's development path is going to be, but I don't think you have to assume he is going the Green route.  The fact that he is considered a high character due and hard working bodes well.

[Winter]

Not enough impact put on the fact that Green was drafted during the post Covid season, when teams couldn’t operate the way they liked. WAY fewer practices and WAAAAAAAY fewer developmental sessions outside of practice. It was really difficult year to be a rookie, I think. 

Also, Green was the 18th pick, not a lottery pick for a team who tanked the last week because they were hell bent to change up at his position. 

Look, I’m not saying I KNOW how he’s going to do early on, but I do have a feeling they’re going to put him out there some.

Yes, they will give Lively minutes early. Unlike Green, Lively has been on the stage as the number #1 high school basketball player. He would have been featured more at Duke had not the injury put him in the back seat. He was considered the #10 player on the board at draft night, and his early workouts before the draft were eye-opening.

Green was a bit of a project largely based on athleticism. He was generally unknown in the states until his one college season, and in Australia was known mostly for his playing of Australian rules football. He played college hoops well and was the 18th pick in the NBA draft, but he really has a very short history with basketball compared to Lively. He had a lot more to learn.

Lively has been groomed for the NBA, and Green never was. Lively expected to be here and expects to play some right away. I suspect the Mavs knew Green was raw when they got him. Green has now earned his stripes, but it took him awhile. The expectations on Lively are different.

The back side of this is that the center position is tough on freshmen. They get injured a lot, they foul a lot, and they get frustrated a lot. So I doubt he plays much early on. 

The Mavs definitely need a veteran center who can play at least 20-25 minutes a night protecting the rim. I don't know where that comes from. Gafford and Reed may look good on paper, but they don't fit that profile yet. I'd be happy with Gafford, but I haven't seen anything to make me think he's available.

[KillerLeft]

I followed Duke closely and saw many games.  Only 20mins/game doesn't lead you to believe he's raw?  The FO said that he wouldn't be contributing a lot.  I think it's a fandom thing to think otherwise.

Well, he’s a pick and roll big and my duke fan friends inform me that they’re NOT a pick and roll team, so he was a fish out of water there (I hate college sports, so I wouldn’t know). BUT, they all tell me he was clearly a difference maker on defense for them, and I’ve heard multiple pro people, scout types and analytic types, refer to him as one of the biggest defensive difference makers of the college season.

Honestly, I can get behind the idea that he’s going to need some development, but if the Mavs really thought he was three years away from making a significant impact, they 100% would not have drafted him. That’s almost all of his rookie contract. 

Believe this: they’re hoping he can play soon. They might be wrong, but they’re hoping.

[SleepingHero]

Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote:[url=https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?pid=189496#pid189496][/url]

Names I think we need to now be going after, albeit the remaining MLE, S&T with Wood outgoing, J.Green, THJ, 2027FRP, and/or the SRPs we have.

P.Reed
P.Achiuwa
PJ.Washington
D.Hunter
Z.Collins
J.Allen
T.Eason
J.Nurkic

---

Yes.  He kinda fits exactly what we need.

Pretty sure after the Grant Williams SnT, it's taken off Wood SnT scenarios.