Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[dirkfansince1998]

Thybulle would be the best defender on a Mavs roster since...I guess 2011. Cannot think of any post championship roster with a legit all-NBA defender. That alone should be enough for people to get excited about it.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Supposedly Stein said the Mavs main interest in Bol Bol at the draft was trying to acquire Orlando's pick #36 in the second round.  Bol Bol was not the primary target.

He also mentioned that the Mavs did in fact reach out to JVG before hiring all those coaches but he's not ready to make that move.

Had some interesting notes on PJ Washington and the other RFAs.  Celtics would pay an addition 40M if they match an MLE offer and we obviously know about Portland trying to navigate everything else during all this.  With PJ though he said that Charlotte sees matching the MLE as a bargain and that PJ is seeking somewhere around 18M (what a convenient number).  He didn't say if Charlotte would match a number that high if he found it (which isn't all that possible right now anyway) but did mention that Charlottle right now is pitching him on the QO as a positive so he can be unrestricted next offseason.

[Chicagojk]

I am so glad the Mavs are looking to build a team how I had hoped. Now, there is a risk of having too many offensive deficient players, but I think they made the correct conclusion that a team with Luka and Kyrie (maybe eventually Jaden) will be a good offense no matter who is on the court with them. They just needed to find players who did the things the Mavs were weak at. I think it is a good strategy.

[SleepingHero]

If POR isn't going to match, as you say, then "compensation" is not part of the landscspe. You just negotiate an offer sheet, and wait out the day until the ROFR expires.

I hope Portland isn't going to match. There are a lot of reasons not to. As KL pointed out, a full MLE offer is pretty rich for a player like Thybulle (although I don't think is an overpay whatsoever), the fit/development issues as well are another reason. 

But POR could always match and retain the asset. Fewer and fewer teams are letting players just walk for free (ignore the elephant in this sentence, I am NOT alluding to you-know-who). So with that in mind, I assume Portland is going to want a little something in return for letting Thybulle walk, even if he's overpaid. 

Is it the Mavs 2030 2nd rounder? Wood? Bullock? Who knows. I'm just assuming here.

[Okstate819]

I hope Portland isn't going to match. There are a lot of reasons not to. As KL pointed out, a full MLE offer is pretty rich for a player like Thybulle (although I don't think is an overpay whatsoever), the fit/development issues as well are another reason. 

But POR could always match and retain the asset. Fewer and fewer teams are letting players just walk for free (ignore the elephant in this sentence, I am NOT alluding to you-know-who). So with that in mind, I assume Portland is going to want a little something in return for not letting Thybulle walk, even if he's overpaid. 

Is it the Mavs 2030 2nd rounder? Wood? Bullock? Who knows. I'm just assuming here.

Bullock makes some sense as a salary match, expiring contract that Portland could flip at the deadline. Might take one of our second rounders as well.

[MrGoat]

I might need some talking into Thybulle. Always thought he was a bit overrated, and we still need another frontcourt addition unless the plan is to start the post Luka rebuild early and play the rookies a lot

I would have rather tried for Grant Williams because he's bigger and more of a physical presence on top of being a better shooter, although Boston supposedly wants a pick for him in a S&T which makes that trickier. Green might already be better than Thybulle, though

If we sign Bol Bol I'll be a bit happier, kind of surprised Orlando waived him. Makes me wonder if there's something behind the scenes there

[Kidnova]

I might need some talking into Thybulle. Always thought he was a bit overrated, and we still need another frontcourt addition unless the plan is to start the post Luka rebuild early and play the rookies a lot

I would have rather tried for Grant Williams because he's bigger and more of a physical presence on top of being a better shooter, although Boston supposedly wants a pick for him in a S&T which makes that trickier. Green might already be better than Thybulle, though

If we sign Bol Bol I'll be a bit happier, kind of surprised Orlando waived him. Makes me wonder if there's something behind the scenes there

Probably the fact that Bol Bol is bad at basketball.

[MFFL]

I assume Portland is going to want a little something in return for letting Thybulle walk, even if he's overpaid. 

Is it the Mavs 2030 2nd rounder? Wood? Bullock? Who knows. I'm just assuming here.

That's why I liked the fact the Mavs made this "offer" through the media. Bullock for example would make a lot of sense for them - he could rehab his game a little and be a good asset for Portland at the trade deadline.

And we would still have our MLE for other targets.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

That's why I liked the fact the Mavs made this "offer" through the media. Bullock for example would make a lot of sense for them - he could rehab his game a little and be a good asset for Portland at the trade deadline.

And we would still have our MLE for other targets.

I actually think that given this is from Chris Haynes and Thybulle shares the same agent as Dame...this got to the media through the Thybulle side and not the Mavs.

[Chicagojk]

Didn't realize he only average 2.7 points per game with the Sixers and pretty much lost his minutes. He did average over 7 for the tanking Blazers. Still a full MLE is pretty pricey for a team not trying to fill a specific weakness.

And probably most teams don't view him as a starter either due to his weakness on offense.

[Tyler]

I might need some talking into Thybulle. 

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Didn't realize he only average 2.7 points per game with the Sixers and pretty much lost his minutes.  He did average over 7 for the tanking Blazers.  Still a full MLE is pretty pricey for a team not trying to fill a specific weakness.

And probably most teams don't view him as a starter either due to his weakness on offense.

The uptick in his shooting volume and percentage over his 22 games in Portland (which he started all of) is really what's giving me some hope.  If that is a mirage then he just will never be an NBA rotation player.

[khaled1987]

I care more about years rather than full MLE or not tbh

[MrGoat]

A cute little graphic with an arcane advanced stat doesn't convince me. His defensive impact in Portland was minimal and there was a reason Philly gave up on him. His minutes spiked on a tanking team, that's a bit of a red flag. This looks like the kind of move that works better on paper than in practice

[MaxiThreeba]

If the Mavs land Thybulle, I think the current roster construction looks something like this:

Luka: Luka
Small Scorers: Kyrie, Hardy, Seth, (Miles)
Point of Attach/Small Wing Defenders: Green, Thybulle, Exum, (Lawson)
Big Wing Defenders: ______, Maxi, OMax
Center: ______, Powell, Lively


GTFO: THJ, Bullock, Holmes, McGee

- If THJ for PJ was somehow on the table, that's a slam dunk and PJ slots in front of Maxi.
- Holmes doesn't have to GTFO if McGee gets moved.  I think it makes some sense to go long at Center with 4 to protect against Lively's development.  Maxi and PJ would give you two capable small ball centers though, so maybe carrying 4 true centers doesn't make sense.
- The other thing I see when looking at this is I would be curious what would be out there for Green, 2027 1st, and the salary ballast available to Mavs with the goal of getting a serious improvement that could slot into where Green currently is.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

His defensive impact in Portland was minimal

What makes you say this?  The Portland fan base online feels otherwise but maybe there's more people on this board who watched the last 22 games of the Dame-less Portland TrailBlazers than I realize....

[KillerLeft]

Thybulle’s defense isn’t the problem. There are too many people whom I respect greatly swearing that he’s a defensive difference maker for me to be skeptical about that. But again, Ntilikina made a difference on that end, too. Pushing back against that point with “but Thybulle is so much better than Ntilikina on defense” doesn’t really address the worry. Frank’s D was plenty helpful, and he was on a team that needed defensive help every bit as much as this year’s version will.

Kidd never learned to trust him on the offensive end, so they couldn’t play him. To this point, that has been the same, sad story of Thybulle’s career.

Ntilikina was a good swing at the minimum. Thybulle at the MLE, with raises, for a few years, guaranteed??? Sorry, I’m just not a believer in that level of risk. I’m not as sure about this as I am about some things, but I am telling you there is a very real chance that this dude is completely out of the rotation a year from now and they are having to try to dump his contract.

[MrGoat]

What makes you say this?  The Portland fan base online feels otherwise but maybe there's more people on this board who watched the last 22 games of the Dame-less Portland TrailBlazers than I realize....

The on court numbers. There's a reason they were fine with giving him big minutes during the tank

Let's just say I trust Josh Green to play good defense without much help a bit more than I trust Thybulle after seeing those numbers. Sure his on ball defense is great which will bring fans to his side, but he's not going to transform your defense

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Thybulle’s defense isn’t the problem. There are too many people whom I respect greatly swearing that he’s a defensive difference maker for me to be skeptical about that. But again, Ntilikina made a difference on that end, too. Pushing back against that point with “but Thybulle is so much better than Ntilikina on defense” doesn’t really address the worry. Frank’s D was plenty helpful, and he was on a team that needed defensive help every bit as much as this year’s version will.

Kidd never learned to trust him on the offensive end, so they couldn’t play him. To this point, that has been the same, sad story of Thybulle’s career.

Ntilikina was a good swing at the minimum. Thybulle at the MLE, with raises, for a few years, guaranteed??? Sorry, I’m just not a believer in that level of risk. I’m not as sure about this as I am about some things, but I am telling you there is a very real chance that this dude is completely out of the rotation a year from now and they are having to try to dump his contract.

Honest question, if you knew they had no way of getting Grant Williams or PJ Washington with the MLE but had this opportunity to sign Thybulle but only to the full MLE, would you rather them not spend it?  Genuinely curious because I share the same concerns as you (and also thought highly of Frank and always felt he shot well enough that he should have gotten more burn but that's neither here nor there) but I also think that if a player on a full MLE contract is what we are considering our bad deals then I would say that we've come along way from some of the mistakes we used to make when it came to that sort of thing.

Right now I'm thinking, it's not my money and it doesn't hinder us THIS offseason from making other moves than why not, feels like a somewhat safe gamble but I know there are long term ramifications that I'm probably not thinking of.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

The on court numbers. There's a reason they were fine with giving him big minutes during the tank

Let's just say I trust Josh Green to play good defense without much help a bit more than I trust Thybulle after seeing those numbers. Sure his on ball defense is great which will bring fans to his side, but he's not going to transform your defense

Tanking is a lot more about the players you aren't playing than the ones you are.  It's not like we'd be asking him to lead our team, just to be a role player.  And I agree that he won't transform our defense single handedly, that takes a handful of players and I believe that he can be one of them.