Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[MAVS-SLO]

I've been off the internet basically all day cause of work, I come back to see not much has changed besides Brooks getting overpaid an obscene amount, Powell gets a fairly reasonable deal that pays him even less than McGee, and most of the posts are screaming Bloody Mary and the sky is falling calling this FA a failure....?

I'm sorry, do we all have short term memory. What occurred last year was an abject failure. This year? The Mavs actually kept their guy (on a reasonable risk averse deal). Signed back a key knockdown shooter on again an incredible value deal, and we're decrying this the same old Mavs? Sorry I don't buy it


I agree we still need to find a starting 3 and center. Everyone has to take a deep breath and chillax

I understand what do you want to say it, but what you are saying is too optimistic for the current Mavs situation. With the other words, i would say that we didn't get worse (or f***ed up something), but we also didn't get any better.

That roster is a mess and while we are talking about how much we improved during draft and FA, the truth is we didn't adress any of the issues that roster have last year, while teams we despise and hate got much stronger and got much more value from FA so far. 

We are still without power forward and Powell is still our starting center.

Let's be realistic, we draft Lively and O-max. Players on 2 positions we desperately need, but until we see them on the floor we can't judge if that's the good deal. 
Yes, getting a second first round pick is good, but we saw how much time it took Green to develop (3 years) and let's remember 2020 draft when we desperately need perimeter defense how we ended up. Ok, Green become valuable in his 3 year, but remember also Tyler Bey and Terry from that draft and where they are now.

I don't want to compare O-max and Lively to them, i just want to wait until i see them on the court and then judge this moves.

Kyrie signing is a good thing, with opening us a MLE, but until we sign a good player on a position we need there, there is another situation like we have with player exception and we never managed to use it.

Move in the right direction, but the fact is, for now we didn't capitalize it (rumours are rumours and until we sign a player it will be the same as it was with all player exceptions).

Signing Seth on BAE is a good thing. It will open a minutes for Hardy and it will help reduce Hardaway's departure.

Move in the right direction, but until Timmy is traded for a starting level a center or power forward, the roster is a mess with 5 centers without starting caliber quality, without power forward with 7 guards in the roster.

Powell is a solid deal, but until we got a starting center is a disaster.

Exum? Remember Campazzo and Tyler Dorsey.

And the biggest problem of the last 2 signings is that the market for the players is smaller by every hour and we spended it on a resigning Dwight Powell and signing Dante Exum.
 
At the end, we didn't get worse, but we also didn't get better. There is a lot of work to do for FO if they don't want to repeat the next season.

[RGP1981]

The Mavs FO made some nice moves in the draft... but everything went downhill after that. I think they showed their lack of having a plan.

To be fair to them though (them, as in the owner and GM), they just don't seem to understand what sort of team is needed to win rings or how to build a consistent contender. So if they don't have a good idea about that, then what they can plan on doing? Well, then they can only plan to do exactly what they have done, lol.

Luka deserves to play for a GM like Rob Pelinka. A guy with the potential to be the best player in the league deserves to play with the best GM in the league, who can build a proper contender around him.

How many of these players did the Lakers have on their roster a short 12 months ago? Look at the turnaround that Rob Pelinka was able to achieve once he did not have his hands tied behind his back by Magic Johnson and LeKlutch. He also managed to sign Reaves and D'lo to contracts that are not overpays. The Mavericks would have probably maxed out D'lo instead, lol.

Gabe Vincent.............. D'lo Russell, Scottie Pippen Jr
Austin Reaves............. Max Christie, Hood-Schifino
Lebron James............. Cam Reddish, Maxwell Lewis
Rui Hachimura............ Jared Vanderbilt, Taurean Prince
Anthony Davis............ Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba

[MFFL]

The Mavs FO made some nice moves in the draft... but everything went downhill after that. I think they showed their lack of having a plan.

I'm sure the Mavs had a plan. They had a plan at the draft and all the cards fell perfectly. But free agency always proves that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

I'm willing to give them time to adapt. It >>IS<< only a couple days into free agency and the league year hasn't even officially opened.

[Chicagojk]

The Mavs FO made some nice moves in the draft... but everything went downhill after that. I think they showed their lack of having a plan.

To be fair to them though (them, as in the owner and GM), they just don't seem to understand what sort of team is needed to win rings or how to build a consistent contender. So if they don't have a good idea about that, then what they can plan on doing? Well, then they can only plan to do exactly what they have done, lol.

Luka deserves to play for a GM like Rob Pelinka. A guy with the potential to be the best player in the league deserves to play with the best GM in the league, who can build a proper contender around him.

How many of these players did the Lakers have on their roster a short 12 months ago? Look at the turnaround that Rob Pelinka was able to achieve once he did not have his hands tied behind his back by Magic Johnson and LeKlutch. He also managed to sign Reaves and D'lo to contracts that are not overpays. The Mavericks would have probably maxed out D'lo instead, lol.

Gabe Vincent.............. D'lo Russell, Scottie Pippen Jr
Austin Reaves............. Max Christie, Hood-Schifino
Lebron James............. Cam Reddish, Maxwell Lewis
Rui Hachimura............ Jared Vanderbilt, Taurean Prince
Anthony Davis............ Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba

They have had a real nice FA.  I also thought they had a real nice draft night.   I am not as high on Hood-Schifino draft guys are.  They also got Maxwell Lewis and a Undrafted guy I was interested in.

Although, we have to note that the rest doesn't matter if Lebron is not elite any longer.  If he is and him and AD are healthy, they are a contender.

---

I'm sure the Mavs had a plan. They had a plan at the draft and all the cards fell perfectly. But free agency always proves that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

I'm willing to give them time to adapt. It >>IS<< only a couple days into free agency and the league year hasn't even officially opened.

I agree.   Here I go, giving them the benefit of the doubt again.   Only to be burned again.  

The Mavs know their weaknesses so lets see how they fill them.  I haven't seen too many FA that we missed that hurts.   Now if they don't fill these holes sufficiently, I would have gladly taken some of these low $ fliers some other teams have made.  But for MLE money, there hasn't been many that we have missed.   So lets see what happens.  I will be fine if they find one starting PF.   That was my expectation after the draft.

[Smitty]

https://twitter.com/cbamavs/status/16753...19552?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

Can sign Thybulle to an offer sheet around 4/44.
SnT THJ at his exact number, 17.9M, for PJ Washington and make it a descending 4/66 contract.
Use Bullock’s expiring at the TDL to upgrade the center spot if need be.

Irving - Curry - Exum
Doncic -  Hardy
Green - Thybulle - Bullock
PJ Wash - Kleber - Prosper
Holmes - Lively - Powell - McGee

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/cbamavs/status/16753...19552?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

Can sign Thybulle to an offer sheet around 4/44.
SnT THJ at his exact number, 17.9M, for PJ Washington and make it a descending 4/66 contract.
Use Bullock’s expiring at the TDL to upgrade the center spot if need be.

Irving - Curry - Exum
Doncic -  Hardy
Green - Thybulle - Bullock
PJ Wash - Kleber - Prosper
Holmes - Lively - Powell - McGee

That would be great.  Not sure how realistic it would be though

[Chicagojk]

bullock may be back. I am sure he is available but as an expiring his contract could be valuable later too. Hardaway has to go. Not that he is a bad player. He is good. The team wants to give Hardy minutes and curry fills up the remainder. Just not a spot for Hardaway. So if he is moved, I will also judge what we get back. Just getting off his co tract is not good enough because that is decreasing the talent on the team. Maybe he does t bring back much valuable but the end result needs to be that the mavs replaced his talent level on the roster. Hopefully at a position of need.

[RGP1981]

They have had a real nice FA.  I also thought they had a real nice draft night.   I am not as high on Hood-Schifino draft guys are.  They also got Maxwell Lewis and a Undrafted guy I was interested in.

Although, we have to note that the rest doesn't matter if Lebron is not elite any longer.  If he is and him and AD are healthy, they are a contender.

Agree with you, the rest doesn't matter if Lebron is not elite any longer, or even if AD gets hurt.

What I am trying to say is... just imagine what Luka Doncic could do if he had that roster? Or if he had Rob Pelinka building a team around him over the past 5 years, with no interference from Cuban?

If we replace Lebron's name with Luka there, wouldn't it be odds-on favorite for the title? This roster comes in under the luxury tax threshold too.

Gabe Vincent.............. D'lo Russell, Scottie Pippen Jr
Austin Reaves............. Max Christie, Hood-Schifino
Luka Doncic............. Cam Reddish, Maxwell Lewis
Rui Hachimura............ Jared Vanderbilt, Taurean Prince
Anthony Davis............ Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba

Cuban and Co like to talk about their analytics... but the Mavericks seem like a lazy organization compared to the Lakers. The Lakers dwarf the Mavericks in the amount of work they put in scouting and working out players before the draft to make good picks. Then they spend time on developing player's skills and shooting with guys like Phil Handy in charge of that. Then add in a GM of highest quality like Rob Pelinka, who seems to have a very good idea of championship rosters and who works so hard.

If you factor in their location... well, the Mavericks should be working harder than the Lakers to overcome the difference in draw of location... not getting outworked by them in every department.

[Chicagojk]

Agree with you, the rest doesn't matter if Lebron is not elite any longer.

What I am trying to say is... just imagine what Luka Doncic could do if he had that roster? Or if he had Rob Pelinka building a team around him over the past 5 years, with no interference from Cuban?

If we replace Lebron's name with Luka there, wouldn't it be odds-on favorite for the title? This roster comes in under the luxury tax threshold too.

Gabe Vincent.............. D'lo Russell, Scottie Pippen Jr
Austin Reaves............. Max Christie, Hood-Schifino
Luka Doncic............. Cam Reddish, Maxwell Lewis
Rui Hachimura............ Jared Vanderbilt, Taurean Prince
Anthony Davis............ Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba

No I agree with you.  Sorry.

Pelinka took some much deserved grief.  But maybe Lebron deserved the lion share of it.

He has constantly hit on non prime draft picks and last year when the fan base and Lebron wanted Westbrook off the team asap, he was able to withstand all the criticism to get a good deal.  Then this off-season they have executed their plan flawlessly.  Getting minimum guys to the Lakers is easier than other teams, but the build of the roster over the last year has been nothing short of great.

[hakeemfaan]

I think most are underrating THJ on this board.  He's not perfect but he shoots well from 3 on high volume and plays very solid team defense.  I think he's probably our 3rd best overall player and I don't understand why everyone is so desperate to trade him.  

I would rather have THJ on his current contract than Deandre Ayton on his.

I have always liked his attitude. He cheers for his teammates and he plays hard.  I don’t blame the Mavs for that contract extension either. We needed scoring at that time. The only knock on Hardaway is that he can be incredibly streaky and when his shot is not falling on a given night he won’t try other ways to score but will keep shooting.  

However most others you will get for him in a trade will have some glaring flaw too.  If not more flaws than him. It’s just that most fans tend to notice the flaws in someone they see every night while noticing only the strengths of someone comparable on another team whom they see only once in a while. Can’t just blame Mavs fans for that. Most fans are like that.

[RGP1981]

No I agree with you.  Sorry.

Pelinka took some much deserved grief.  But maybe Lebron deserved the lion share of it.

He has constantly hit on non prime draft picks and last year when the fan base and Lebron wanted Westbrook off the team asap, he was able to withstand all the criticism to get a good deal.  Then this off-season they have executed their plan flawlessly.  Getting minimum guys to the Lakers is easier than other teams, but the build of the roster over the last year has been nothing short of great.

Yes, it is easier for them to get minimum or undrafted guys... but then, they generally also go after the right type of guys who fit with their stars instead of going after 5'11" PGs (like Jordan Walker, will he ever play for the 1st team, and if not, what is the point of this move?)... and then actually pay them the minimum instead of giving guys like Javaleee McGee $20M over 3 years.

Let us hope age fully catches up with Lebron this season. I do not want to see him winning another ring!

[RGP1981]

How do you guys feel about trading Reggie Bullock for Norman Powell? I read an article saying the Clippers want to trade him to save dollars and get under the tax. Powell shoots and defends at least as well as Bullock but is a better play-maker. The advantage of Bullock is he is slightly taller, so he might be better at defending 6'6"-6'7" SG/SF types.

Kyrie............. Exum, Curry
Powell......... THJ, Hardy
Luka............. Green
Kleber........... O-Max
Holmes......... Lively

Ideally, it would be THJ going out for Powell instead of Bullock, but the Clippers want to save dollars and THJ costs about the same as Powell this year.

[dirkfansince1998]

Mavs have been trying to copy the 19/20 Lakers system since Kidd took over. Never ending talk about Vogel´s defense. Signing former Lakers.
Completly ignoring that the Lakers themself aren´t stuck in the past and moved on because the vets that helped them win are past their prime.

[Chicagojk]

Hollinger article on FA and cap space

https://theathletic.com/4660230/2023/07/...cap-space/

[SleepingHero]

Wonder if there is a way to send Wood to LAC and get a guy like Morris or Mann back...

[MFFL]

Wonder if there is a way to send Wood to LAC and get a guy like Morris or Mann back...

I think it would use up the rest of our salary so I wouldn't do it

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Could there be any reasons to wait until the moratorium is over to announce a trade?

[SkenfromLMF]

I think it would use up the rest of our salary so I wouldn't do it

I think one of the options has to be a willingness to go beyond the 1st Apron, thus NOT using the full MLE/BAE (Curry is then an MLE type signing not BAE) Then finding a dump of McGee or Bullock in season to get back under the first Apron before the end of the year...

[surfpuckmd]

I think last year THJ was the 3rd best player. Green is likely the starting 3 now with DO DO gone. So, I'm thinking the Curry signing was a better and cheaper THJ. Curry is just a lights out shooter that contributes to winning. He's a good passer, very underrated defender, and one of the best shooters in the NBA.

THJ disappears at the worst times. He's a decent team defender but struggles with that at times as well. I hated that they traded Curry previously. I was really hoping he would be back this offseason. When he has been on the floor for Dallas they win.

Seth Curry is not an underrated defender.  He is a terrible defender.  We have too many weak defensive players in our rotation already:

Average defenders:  THJ, Kyrie

Below average defenders:   Luka

Bad defenders:  Richaun Holmes

Terrible defenders:  Reggie Bullock, Seth Curry, Jaden Hardy

Every minute we play Seth Curry improves our offensive production and cripples our defense.  I think a lineup including Luka, Bullock and Seth Curry will be helpless on defense.

---

How do you guys feel about trading Reggie Bullock for Norman Powell? I read an article saying the Clippers want to trade him to save dollars and get under the tax. Powell shoots and defends at least as well as Bullock but is a better play-maker. The advantage of Bullock is he is slightly taller, so he might be better at defending 6'6"-6'7" SG/SF types.

Kyrie............. Exum, Curry
Powell......... THJ, Hardy
Luka............. Green
Kleber........... O-Max
Holmes......... Lively

Ideally, it would be THJ going out for Powell instead of Bullock, but the Clippers want to save dollars and THJ costs about the same as Powell this year.

I think it would be a bad idea.  Powell is a good offensive player but really poor on defense.  Not a solution for our problems.

[omahen]

Seems we have a total standstill. Stein is just now active on his chat:

For all my Dallas neighbors ... Dallas indeed continues to pursue upgrades on the wing and at center. The Mavs know they haven't done enough there.

The Pels are said to be looking for a center to play next to him.

Can't pinpoint the most likely third teams yet in a trade for Harden or Dame except to say that there will almost certainly be multiple teams in both cases