Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[Winter]

Odds of an Ayton trade materializing for Dallas in the next week???

[khaled1987]

Odds of an Ayton trade materializing for Dallas in the next week???

If Mcgee is the issue, I would say it is high odds IMO. 
He is Duffy client who has good relation with Luka and compliment his game well and in a position we already admitted publicly that we want to make upgrades in.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/kendra__andrews/stat...7893808128

Donte DiVincenzo is not picking up his $4.7 million player option with the Warriors and will enter unrestricted free agency, source tells ESPN.

Good shooter. Solid defender but undersized for a SG. Not good enough of a playmaker to be a full time PG.
Don´t think that he is a full MLE guy. Maybe rMLE. Wouldn´t be intersted from a Mavs perspective.

[SkenfromLMF]

Shame on PHX for matching IND after that instead of taking Turner+ in exchange...

If they had worked out a S&T prior to IND signing the offer sheet it does. Bottom line is Ayton's performance against the Mavs should have been a buyer beware. As someone already said, he's like Dorothy's friends in one: No Heart, No Courage, No Brain.

So, by that thinking, shame on us for not working out a Sign and Trade with Brunson???
You ASSUME that Indy wanted to trade in principal and Turner in particular - Indy has had several opportunities to trade Turner and...

Look, I don't know how I feel about Ayton because I am ROOTING for Richaun Holmes. I do think Ayton could do what KP did in Washington. With Luka/Kyrie at the guards, the 3 of them could take any legitimate roster to the playoffs. Playoff time becomes a little bit iffy, but we would look pretty good in getting there.
IF I have one reservation that outweighs the others it is where Ayton is defensively. By that, I mean Ayton becoming the next C-Wood in Kidd's doghouse would be catastrophic. I believe that Ayton is better defensively than C-Wood, but are the issues you & others bring up enough to cause Kidd to ostracize him? That is my one concern as long as we are buying low and there are no draft compensations going to PHX.

The guy I want traded is McGee and I would be willing to roll with Holmes, Ayton, and Lively to get there. Expensive but we are talking about a shade over 25% of the 1st Apron. Compare that to the PG's and it is a deal...

[ThisIStheYear]

HUH?  He's less than half the price of Ayton.  Makes less than THJ.

????

I’m not sure who you’re talking about here.  Maybe Holmes?  He’s pushing 30 and in decline. I wouldn’t bet on him at all, even though he has a chance to contribute. Ayton is only 24, on the same timeline as Luka, plays 30 minutes per game with a PER of 20 every year and has been in the finals as a third best player already. He’s the better bet. Holmes and THJ probably just aren’t going to have any real impact.  The Mavs only truly good run during the Luka era has been with THJ on the sideline due to injury. Has Holmes ever contributed to a winning team? They’re just guys to give you a few good games during the season and both are getting old.   Now if you can come up with a way to get Cam Johnson or someone like that for that salary and trade package, that’s better. I just don’t think it exists. The Mavs are going to have to take a chance on a distressed asset. A healthy, athletic big with an NBA finals pedigree works for me. I doubt this opportunity comes around again. The new CBA is leading some teams to make decisions for non basketball reasons. Phoenix has an inexperienced owner who’s inserted himself into the decision making process.The Mavs should take advantage and make a calculated risk.

[Mavsfan12]

Let's make this easy, here are our 1-3 "ready to contribute now at a championship level" players...
1.  Luka, Point Forward, 6'-8", 230lbs ($40m)
2.  Kyrie, Combo Guard, 6'-2", 194lbs ($45m est)
3.  J.Green, SG, 6'-5", 209lbs ($3m)
4.  Hardy, Combo Guard, 6'-3", 198lbs ($1.7m)
5.  THJ, SG, 6'-5", 205lbs ($17.8m)
6.  Bullock, SG/SF, 6'-6", 205lbs ($10.4)
Six roster spots, $117.9m

Here are our 4-5 "ready to contribute now at a championship level"...
7.  Maxi, Forward, 6'-10", 240lbs ($11m)
One roster spot, $11m

See where we need to focus on?????  Again, in order to keep Luka from walking out on this franchise, we have to compete now.  The hopes that Holmes will do a Lazarus isn't going to do it.  Hoping Lively will go from only 20mins in college and games he simply was invisible to what we need out of a championship starter isn't going to do it.

We need a flex PF/C who eventually start with Lively and a flex SF/PF who could start for us right now.  The discussion should be around who that is, not what we need.

The most frustrating thing about reading various outlets, including this one, during this offseason is hearing all of the theories on players that the Mavs are supposedly chasing or are interested in.  In a single, concise post, GoP has illustrated the massive issue that too many people are ignoring.  I don't want to hear another word about freaking Bruce Brown.  Who cares?  We need a frontcourt.  Period.  ALL assets should be used in targeting that area of need at this time.  The MAVS are stacked at the 1-3 - for now and into the future.  They need starting/contending level 4/5's still.  Two of them at a minimum. Period.  If you don't like the rumored bigs that are available, fine.  But people positing people like Bruce Brown/Norman Powell for the MLE/snt candidates, with the current state of the roster, are really showing that they don't get it.  

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but come on.  This place is better than that.

One last thing in my rant...  Bullock has been a solid defensive presence for this team in his time here.  His defensive ratings absolutely TANKED last year because he was being asked to play the 4 here.  (he was the starting 4 after the TDL, with Luka sometimes guarding up, and Bull guarding down).  Anyone watching the games had to be able to see that the defense was getting killed by often playing 4 guards on a regular basis.  With Wood/Powell as the 5's, no less.  Come on!  The Mavs need to make deals for bigs - using players like THJ at a position of depth to do so.  They need to preserve the MLE to use on a starter at the 4/5 - depending on which position doesn't get filled in a trade.  But this team is STILL two starting players short of a contending roster next season.  Unless... the Mavs view Holmes as a starter.  No one has seen much of his play the last two seasons, but I would be happy with his play from 3-4 seasons ago - IF we had a really nice compliment at the 4 - and then go with a C by committee approach.

Great post, GoP!

[Winter]

The most frustrating thing about reading various outlets, including this one, during this offseason is hearing all of the theories on players that the Mavs are supposedly chasing or are interested in.  In a single, concise post, GoP has illustrated the massive issue that too many people are ignoring.  I don't want to hear another word about freaking Bruce Brown.  Who cares?  We need a frontcourt.  Period.  ALL assets should be used in targeting that area of need at this time.  The MAVS are stacked at the 1-3 - for now and into the future.  

I think the problem with this is that you are assuming a static position on the Mavs roster. If there is a solid rumor about acquiring Bruce Brown, it may very well coincide with a Mavericks trade of one or more wings outgoing in a trade - like Thj or Bullock. We don't know what the Mavs are thinking or how they want to shuffle the deck, but if the Mavs acquire a center in a trade, they will likely have to let go of a wing. Hence, we may need a replacement.

This is all about upgrading the roster.

[Smitty]

---

Absolutely.  PJ attractive?  Sure.  But at that cost.  No way.

What cost do you think is acceptable? I would argue that Maxi (his health) is probably the most critical for this team and we talk about it often - come playoff time.

Getting a 24 year old Maxi at ~12M for the next 4 years seems like a very good thing.

There are probably a number of different trade scenarios that would be considered more palatable, sure.. THJ for PJ, Bullock + 2030 SRP etc.

I’m higher on the player it seems, but I think most have the same opinion of the fit and importance.

[audiosway]

Odds of an Ayton trade materializing for Dallas in the next week???

I think about 80% chance of that happening. The Suns desperately need some depth. I think once the new league year begins it's a done deal. I really like Lively but there is no way they will go into the season starting a rookie at the 5.

[cow]

We need a frontcourt.  Period.  ALL assets should be used in targeting that area of need at this time.  The MAVS are stacked at the 1-3 - for now and into the future.  They need starting/contending level 4/5's still.  Two of them at a minimum. Period. 

I don't think you can operate that way or you end up with Josh Richardson and Delon Wright.  Yes, your team should try to address weaknesses in the draft, via trade, and in free agency, but we aren't at the point were one player is going to put us over the top.  If you can smartly add talent, I'd worry less about redundancy or positions of need and more about building up available assets.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

PJ will probably get between 15-20m even as a RFA though, right? I would bet closer to 20. You have to make it painful for Charlotte or they just match.

[F Gump]

There is some confusion about new CBA "aggregation" rules regarding Ayton on another board.  It was suggested that after 7/1/23, Ayton can't be traded with multiple players coming back.  This is not a concern for 2023.  It is a second apron thing, but it doesn't start until the 24/25 season.

In that season, if you are over the second apron, you can't aggregate up or down (can't turn two players into one in a trade and can't turn one into two).  That is a big deal because not only are you competitively punished for spending that much, but you have few avenues to fix your mistake.  But again, a 24 thing, not a 23 thing.  If they really were relatively close to an Ayton trade that included Holmes we know:

1. All the positioning about new coach looking forward to working with him is BS.
2. This was after the drafting of Lively (or we wouldn't have had Holmes to trade).

I did the match and with Irving at $40mm to start, we cross the first apron if we don't include McGee as outgoing (not by much though, so it could be fixed by fine tuning Kyrie down a bit more (though we don't even know if $40mm is a real thing or not).  If McGee is outgoing, then we can have the N-TP MLE.  In fact, there are a few extra dollars to give to Kyrie or use in a trade spread with Bullock outgoing or use to keep a 15th player on the roster.

Clock is ticking on Reggie.  If you don't pick up his guarantee, it has a similar impact to trading McGee if you don't S/W him.  You have to account for dead money and a minimum slot to replace him.  But with Irving at $40mm, 14 spots and Reggie just straight waived, I have us at $169mm.  We will have moved off of two wings in THJ and Reggie, but we only need one and the MLE can provide that.

Thanks for the explanation.

One clarification - from what I understand about the no-aggregation rule, it is only a team over Apron 2 that cannot aggregate. "Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams [over Apron 2] will be unable to use a TPE generated by aggregating the Salaries of multiple Traded Players."

So a team over Apron 2 can receive more players than they send, just so long as no aggregation by them is involved.

[Mavsfan12]

I think the problem with this is that you are assuming a static position on the Mavs roster. If there is a solid rumor about acquiring Bruce Brown, it may very well coincide with a Mavericks trade of one or more wings outgoing in a trade - like Thj or Bullock. We don't know what the Mavs are thinking or how they want to shuffle the deck, but if the Mavs acquire a center in a trade, they will likely have to let go of a wing. Hence, we may need a replacement.

This is all about upgrading the roster.

we would have to get rid of at least two wings before acquiring another one would take precedence over a big.  Our bigs are either new, or bad.  Almost all of our playable roster is 1-3.  You CANNOT ignore that.  You just can't.  That is the position the team is in.  If they go into the season without 2 new starter, or at least high playoff rotation bigs, what's the point?  Suck again?  We have all seen how that plays out...  adding a pair of rookies isn't going to fix the issue.  Holmes MAY BE part of the solution - but that is greatly unknown.

[Winter]

I'm not "taking precedence over a big".

The point was that a rumor of Bruce Brown can't be seen in a vacuum. Bruce Brown may make sense if we knew in advance which players were going out. You can't pre-judge what the Mavs are thinking based on one player rumor.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

The most frustrating thing about reading various outlets, including this one, during this offseason is hearing all of the theories on players that the Mavs are supposedly chasing or are interested in.  In a single, concise post, GoP has illustrated the massive issue that too many people are ignoring.  I don't want to hear another word about freaking Bruce Brown.  Who cares?  We need a frontcourt.  Period.  ALL assets should be used in targeting that area of need at this time.  The MAVS are stacked at the 1-3 - for now and into the future.  They need starting/contending level 4/5's still.  Two of them at a minimum. Period.  If you don't like the rumored bigs that are available, fine.  But people positing people like Bruce Brown/Norman Powell for the MLE/snt candidates, with the current state of the roster, are really showing that they don't get it.  

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but come on.  This place is better than that.

One last thing in my rant...  Bullock has been a solid defensive presence for this team in his time here.  His defensive ratings absolutely TANKED last year because he was being asked to play the 4 here.  (he was the starting 4 after the TDL, with Luka sometimes guarding up, and Bull guarding down).  Anyone watching the games had to be able to see that the defense was getting killed by often playing 4 guards on a regular basis.  With Wood/Powell as the 5's, no less.  Come on!  The Mavs need to make deals for bigs - using players like THJ at a position of depth to do so.  They need to preserve the MLE to use on a starter at the 4/5 - depending on which position doesn't get filled in a trade.  But this team is STILL two starting players short of a contending roster next season.  Unless... the Mavs view Holmes as a starter.  No one has seen much of his play the last two seasons, but I would be happy with his play from 3-4 seasons ago - IF we had a really nice compliment at the 4 - and then go with a C by committee approach.

Great post, GoP!

Thank you, MF12.

One thing to add to both our points, we have no true SF even.  Sure Bullock, Green, and THJ can fill in, but they are at best tweener SG/SF.  Looking at our rebounding numbers last year, we need some rebounding from the 3 spot, which they don't give us.  Luka you can say functions as a forward, so we need a backup there.  All that said, we're missing an entire frontcourt except for Luka & Maxi.

That brings me to Maxi...  our only true forward other than Luka who is ready now to contribute on a championship team.  Maxi is a great switching defender, the best perimeter defender we have...  at 6'-10".  He's also a clutch 3pt shooter as he showed in our WCF run.  The bad?  He's a terrible rebounder.  His rebounding numbers are more of a SF, which is probably a wash with Luka being such a rebounding stud.  The ugly, he's a 25mins/game player.  So out of the entire ready to contribute to a championship team frontcourt, we have 25mins covered.  The fugly?  He played only 37 games last year.

Conclusion: Without overtime, we need about 4K minutes from all 3 frontcourt positions.  Luka played 34mins in 66 games.  Maxi played 25mins in 37 games.

SF: need 4K minutes.  Luka gave us 2.2k.  Need 1.8k.  Green, Bullock, and THJ can take care of that.
PF: need 4k minutes.  Maxi gave us 0.9k.  Need 3.1k.
C: need 4k minutes.

Do y'all not see the H-U-G-E hole here?

[F Gump]

I don't want to hear another word about freaking Bruce Brown.  Who cares?  We need a frontcourt.  Period.  ALL assets should be used in targeting that area of need at this time.  The MAVS are stacked at the 1-3 - for now and into the future.  They need starting/contending level 4/5's still.  Two of them at a minimum. Period. 

Thanks for your opinion.

I am a huge proponent of adding improved defense. But I don't agree with the idea that the problem (and solution) is limited to 4s and 5s.

To me, Brown fills a need. He's a 2 or 3, but can guard bigger. MOST IMPORTANTLY, he is a legit defender. To add one of those, who can do some plus things on offense too, that's what you need.

I hope you are right about Bullock. But if you are, I still think Brown would be a huge get. He offers a lot.

I agree that they might need better at C. But the problem is they don't need MORE, and they don't need one just to get one. It would be dumb to add another without getting rid of McGee or Holmes (or both). So that would be a trade, not MLE. If they can get that guy in trade, with one or more centers outgoing, sign me up. I would love to see them swap for Gafford. (But that answer is not Ayton imo. The Mavs need DEFENSE. They also need to get away from bloated salaries.) I

I would love for the Mavs to add a bigger defensive wing than Brown for the MLE, but don't see who that would be for the MLE.

I wonder if are set with enough defense at the 4, with Maxi and O-Max. But I also wonder, if an addition is needed, who is the defensive stud as a 4 who is available for the MLE? I don't want a guy, just to have a guy.

My 2c.

[Smitty]

PJ will probably get between 15-20m even as a RFA though, right? I would bet closer to 20. You have to make it painful for Charlotte or they just match.

They have two RFA and Bridges is likely higher on their list to retain. It’s been reported that the Hornets are likely to facilitate a SnT for PJ, to get a veteran presence for their young squad - if they can save some money while doing so, it’s a big plus!

[F Gump]

I don't think you can operate that way or you end up with Josh Richardson and Delon Wright.  Yes, your team should try to address weaknesses in the draft, via trade, and in free agency, but we aren't at the point where one player is going to put us over the top.  If you can smartly add talent, I'd worry less about redundancy or positions of need and more about building up available assets.

This.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Gambodoro, on the Ayton trade talks] Yes Dallas had interest - In getting off Hardaway, whom Luka does not want to play with, and McGee. They did not offer Maxi Kleiber or the 10th pick. The trade was never going to happen.

---

He’s the Suns insider so maybe just trying to cause trouble for the Mavs.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Thank you, MF12.

One thing to add to both our points, we have no true SF even.  Sure Bullock, Green, and THJ can fill in, but they are at best tweener SG/SF.  Looking at our rebounding numbers last year, we need some rebounding from the 3 spot, which they don't give us.  Luka you can say functions as a forward, so we need a backup there.  All that said, we're missing an entire frontcourt except for Luka & Maxi.

That brings me to Maxi...  our only true forward other than Luka who is ready now to contribute on a championship team.  Maxi is a great switching defender, the best perimeter defender we have...  at 6'-10".  He's also a clutch 3pt shooter as he showed in our WCF run.  The bad?  He's a terrible rebounder.  His rebounding numbers are more of a SF, which is probably a wash with Luka being such a rebounding stud.  The ugly, he's a 25mins/game player.  So out of the entire ready to contribute to a championship team frontcourt, we have 25mins covered.  The fugly?  He played only 37 games last year.

Conclusion: Without overtime, we need about 4K minutes from all 3 frontcourt positions.  Luka played 34mins in 66 games.  Maxi played 25mins in 37 games.

SF: need 4K minutes.  Luka gave us 2.2k.  Need 1.8k.  Green, Bullock, and THJ can take care of that.
PF: need 4k minutes.  Maxi gave us 0.9k.  Need 3.1k.
C: need 4k minutes.

Do y'all not see the H-U-G-E hole here?

Let's go best care scenario, Gawd owed us a favor.

Lively is Mark Williams. 19mins in 43 games.  0.8k mins.
OMax is Jae Crowder.  17mins in 78 games.  1.3k mins.
Holmes turns back the clock 2 years.  24mins in 45 games.  1.0k mins.

SF: Covered.
PF: OMax 1.3k mins.  50% of Holmes 0.5k mins.  Still need 1.3k minutes.
C: Lively 0.8k mins, 50% of Holmes 0.5k mins.  Still need 2.7k minutes.