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Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms
(06-27-2023, 03:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Overreacting much? It´s not legit to look at his body of work or performance in his best run but it´s totally valid to predict his future based on one playoff series against the best player in the league. Playing on a dysfunctional team and fighting with the coach.
Still concerning because no matter what happens you cannot pull a Rondo. But I would asume that any team that considers trading for him knows more about the situation than we do. Personally I think that is more concerning than his level of play. After the last season the Mavs should stay away from anyone that could create locker room issues.

In that case stay away from Grant Williams. If Kidd got into it with Wood, I´m sure he´d enjoy Grant Williams suggesting plays for himself during meetings. Big Grin

(06-27-2023, 03:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Overreacting much? It´s not legit to look at his body of work or performance in his best run but it´s totally valid to predict his future based on one playoff series against the best player in the league. Playing on a dysfunctional team and fighting with the coach.
Still concerning because no matter what happens you cannot pull a Rondo. But I would asume that any team that considers trading for him knows more about the situation than we do. Personally I think that is more concerning than his level of play. After the last season the Mavs should stay away from anyone that could create locker room issues.

Remember when everybody here lost their sh*t cause the Cavs gave Markkanen 16M a year. LOL.
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(06-27-2023, 03:56 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: In that case stay away from Grant Williams. If Kidd got into it with Wood, I´m sure he´d enjoy Grant Williams suggesting plays for himself during meetings. Big Grin

[Image: 0_BATMAN.jpg]

With his track record Kidd should be afraid. Justice will be served.
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If I could give df1998 an award I would.
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14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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Can I make a bold prediction? I think the Mavs will stiff Kyrie with something like 120/3 with a team option and if he declines, they´ll find a way to go after Lillard (3-teamer with Kyrie to Clippers?) or Lavine (Kyrie directly) with the Nico and agent connections.
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(06-27-2023, 04:02 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Can I make a bold prediction? I think the Mavs will stiff Kyrie with something like 120/3 with a team option and if he declines, they´ll find a way to go after Lillard (3-teamer with Kyrie to Clippers?) or Lavine (Kyrie directly) with the Nico and agent connections.


If we could only be so lucky to get Dame here.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(06-27-2023, 04:02 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Can I make a bold prediction? I think the Mavs will stiff Kyrie with something like 120/3 with a team option and if he declines, they´ll find a way to go after Lillard (3-teamer with Kyrie to Clippers?) or Lavine (Kyrie directly) with the Nico and agent connections.

I had this same thought today. Astute.
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(06-27-2023, 04:04 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: If we could only be so lucky to get Dame here.

Yeah Lavine seems more realistic, but what about the Lakers.

Kyrie to the Lakers
Hachimura + Bamba + Green + Mavs 2027 +Mavs 2030 to Portland

That seems a very generous offer given Dame´s age and recent injuries.

I think I´d actually feel more comfortable with Kyrie for Lavine straight up.

Also guys never forget about Vucevic for Wood. Tongue

I think Vucevic is the perfect MLE leverage target now, and maybe you then push it to 15-17 range using Wood or Holmes in a S&T.
Vucevic is a great rebounder, good 3pt shooter and fits the center rotation well till Lively is ready.
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https://twitter.com/esidery/status/16737...16740?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
Max Strus is expected to sign with a team for at least the mid-level exception soon after free agency begins, per @ZachLowe_NBA (https://t.co/IM3g99Lu7Y):

“The amount of Max Strus buzz right now is ridiculous.”
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(06-27-2023, 03:43 PM)Smitty Wrote: He’s the only one I’m interested in tbh.

Bullock + ‘27. Hornets want vets and are going to resign Bridges.

https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/news/pick...washington

I like PJ, but I don't think he is worth an unprotected first.
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(06-27-2023, 03:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Overreacting much? It´s not legit to look at his body of work or performance in his best run but it´s totally valid to predict his future based on one playoff series against the best player in the league. Playing on a dysfunctional team and fighting with the coach.
Still concerning because no matter what happens you cannot pull a Rondo. But I would asume that any team that considers trading for him knows more about the situation than we do. Personally I think that is more concerning than his level of play. After the last season the Mavs should stay away from anyone that could create locker room issues.

OK, so how should he have performed against Powell 2 years ago?  Did he punish us?  Did we have to worry about him and not double CP3?  I really thought Ayton was going to eat us up.  Shame on PHX for matching IND after that instead of taking Turner+ in exchange.
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(06-27-2023, 04:02 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Can I make a bold prediction? I think the Mavs will stiff Kyrie with something like 120/3 with a team option and if he declines, they´ll find a way to go after Lillard (3-teamer with Kyrie to Clippers?) or Lavine (Kyrie directly) with the Nico and agent connections.

I kinda think if they don’t sign him, they’ll look for young players on value contracts.
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(06-27-2023, 04:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: I like PJ, but I don't think he is worth an unprotected first.

I disagree. I think he's worth the '27 for this Mavs team. It will get traded at some point with the Mavs other picks getting unlocked after this year. Getting a higher upside, younger, better Maxi for this team is ideal. 

Reggie is addition by subtraction, as he was literally one of the worst NBA players last year based on advanced stats.

If the Mavs can have a future PJ/OMax rotation at the 4 and Lively/PJ at the 5, then I'm ecstatic!
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Another prediction:

Teams are going to start letting their own high-performing veterans walk at the ends of their contracts rather than re-sign them to max or near-max contracts.

In the old days, teams believed they could always dump a high-priced vet with a lot left on the contract, if they were creative. There would always be plenty of other teams with bloated contracts that didn’t fit, or were substantially negative.

But the new CBA changes that dynamic. Overpays really, really hurt. Atlanta shouldn’t have signed John Collins. Phoenix shouldn’t have signed Ayton, and probably Chris Paul. GS shouldn’t have signed Poole.

If someone pays Kuzma $30m, I think they’ll rue the day.
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(06-27-2023, 04:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: I like PJ, but I don't think he is worth an unprotected first.

PJ is precisely who the Mavs should be looking at.  A flex F/C who could eventually start with Lively.  PJ or Z.Collins suffices.  That and a flex SF/PF like Tate, Hunter, or Eason and we're there.  I would be willing to trade Green for either PJ/Z.Collins or Eason, ditto on the 27FRP.

Luka, Hardy
Kyrie, THJ
Bullock, OMax
Eason, Maxi
PJ/Z.Collins, Lively

That's a a balanced 10-man rotation who could compete now, yet has a ton of future.  THJ and Bullock are eventually kicked to the curb.  When Lively is ready to start, PJ/Z.Collins move to PF, Eason to SF.
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(06-27-2023, 04:30 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Shame on PHX for matching IND after that instead of taking Turner+ in exchange.

That is NOT how Restricted Free Agency works.
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(06-27-2023, 04:41 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: That is NOT how Restricted Free Agency works.

If they had worked out a S&T prior to IND signing the offer sheet it does.  Bottom line is Ayton's performance against the Mavs should have been a buyer beware.  As someone already said, he's like Dorothy's friends in one: No Heart, No Courage, No Brain.
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(06-27-2023, 04:30 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: OK, so how should he have performed against Powell 2 years ago?  Did he punish us?  Did we have to worry about him and not double CP3?  I really thought Ayton was going to eat us up.  Shame on PHX for matching IND after that instead of taking Turner+ in exchange.

First of all. Maxi was the primary matchup. Ayton was efficient but the volume wasn´t anywhere close to what it should have been considering that he was shooting nearly 60% from the floor. But as Killerleft already stated. He isn´t a post scorer and relies on guards to create for him. Can score in the pick and roll/pop (midrange).

Looking at the defensive end he was the only guy on the Suns roster that wasn´t getting cooked in isolation against Luka. What would you say if I told you that among all players that defended more than 20 FGA from Luka in the playoffs no one (including Jazz and Warriors) held Luka to a lower FG%.

Or to play your favorit game of selective sample sizes. What about the first round against the Pelicans. 20/10 on 70% from the field. Doesn´t count because it doesn´t fit into the narrative of Ayton´s steady decline?

Not even all that interested in the Ayton topic but the narratives that are being pushed are ridiculous. Suns needed a scapegoat. CP3 and Bridges played worse but Ayton took most of the blame. There´s legit criticism. For example his limited offensive move set or inability to punish mismatches. And obviously a lack of consistent effort on the defensive end and the boards. But there is also a lot to like. Especially if the asking price is as low as the trade talks between the Mavs and Suns suggest.
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(06-27-2023, 05:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: There´s legit criticism. For example his limited offensive move set or inability to punish mismatches. And obviously a lack of consistent effort on the defensive end and the boards. But there is also a lot to like. Especially if the asking price is as low as the trade talks between the Mavs and Suns suggest.

This is a nice summation.  I'm pretty against Ayton, but that mostly has to do with his lack of consistent effort/checking out mentally combined with his contract.  If he was on his rookie deal, it would be a much easier sell.  And you could still push me into the "sure, why not" camp if we got rid of McGee, THJ, and Bullock.  There is always a chance a change of scenery and coaching does him good and while you figure that out, you are going to eat up a year+ of his contract which will make him easier to move. There is potential upside to Ayton both in making the team better and turning him into an asset.
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(06-27-2023, 04:41 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: PJ is precisely who the Mavs should be looking at.  A flex F/C who could eventually start with Lively.  PJ or Z.Collins suffices.  That and a flex SF/PF like Tate, Hunter, or Eason and we're there.  I would be willing to trade Green for either PJ/Z.Collins or Eason, ditto on the 27FRP.

Luka, Hardy
Kyrie, THJ
Bullock, OMax
Eason, Maxi
PJ/Z.Collins, Lively

That's a a balanced 10-man rotation who could compete now, yet has a ton of future.  THJ and Bullock are eventually kicked to the curb.  When Lively is ready to start, PJ/Z.Collins move to PF, Eason to SF.

I didn't say we shouldn't be looking at PJ, I said an unprotected first is too much, especially considering its coming around the time Luka might force himself out if things go south.  That pick is crazy valuable and my preference would be that it gets used to add the final piece, not for another quality rotational player.

He is a good young player, but he is not elite defensively and I don't think you want him to play the 5 unless you want another Powell situation (can't rebound or rim protect like you would want from a 5).

I also don't know why you have Bullock in your starting lineup.  He was terrible last year.  Timmy was better on both ends of the floor.

And finally, this team has been desperately trying to find a point of attack defender for years (Delon Wright, JRish, ...).  Now that we finally have one, not sure why we would be in such a hurry to toss him into a trade.
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There is some confusion about new CBA "aggregation" rules regarding Ayton on another board.  It was suggested that after 7/1/23, Ayton can't be traded with multiple players coming back.  This is not a concern for 2023.  It is a second apron thing, but it doesn't start until the 24/25 season.

In that season, if you are over the second apron, you can't aggregate up or down (can't turn two players into one in a trade and can't turn one into two).  That is a big deal because not only are you competitively punished for spending that much, but you have few avenues to fix your mistake.  But again, a 24 thing, not a 23 thing.  If they really were relatively close to an Ayton trade that included Holmes we know:

1. All the positioning about new coach looking forward to working with him is BS.
2. This was after the drafting of Lively (or we wouldn't have had Holmes to trade).

I did the match and with Irving at $40mm to start, we cross the first apron if we don't include McGee as outgoing (not by much though, so it could be fixed by fine tuning Kyrie down a bit more (though we don't even know if $40mm is a real thing or not).  If McGee is outgoing, then we can have the N-TP MLE.  In fact, there are a few extra dollars to give to Kyrie or use in a trade spread with Bullock outgoing or use to keep a 15th player on the roster.

Clock is ticking on Reggie.  If you don't pick up his guarantee, it has a similar impact to trading McGee if you don't S/W him.  You have to account for dead money and a minimum slot to replace him.  But with Irving at $40mm, 14 spots and Reggie just straight waived, I have us at $169mm.  We will have moved off of two wings in THJ and Reggie, but we only need one and the MLE can provide that.

(06-27-2023, 05:19 PM)mvossman Wrote: I didn't say we shouldn't be looking at PJ, I said an unprotected first is too much, especially considering its coming around the time Luka might force himself out if things go south.  That pick is crazy valuable and my preference would be that it gets used to add the final piece, not for another quality rotational player.

Absolutely.  PJ attractive?  Sure.  But at that cost.  No way.
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