Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Hopefully they have something more exciting than this, but a small move they could make would be Reggie for Kyle Anderson.  Each would fit better on their new team than their current.  Each is UFA in a year.

Bullock doesn't bring more than Anderson, at least in my eyes. If Bullock isn't making shots, he's useless. Anderson has more intangibles and makes winning plays. and although he's not better at shooting the 3, he's a better passer, rebounder, and defender. Why would the T-Pups even consider this?  JMO

[F Gump]

Brown has been my top choice for MLE. I think he would be a perfect fit in Dallas.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1672279805176295425



Didn´t happen on draft day but they have to move at least one out of Capela/Hunter/Collins in the coming days/weeks.

One thing that would interest me is S.Bey into the remaining TPE combined with a salary saving move for the Hawks that features Bullock/THJ in exchange for Collins or Capela.

Deandre Hunter fits like an absolute glove on this team. Capela obviously as well. I think if ATL didn't trade Capela for the 10th pick they aren't going to take a smaller package now because the Mavs aren't suddenly going to add Green/Hardy in the deal.

To take Collins off their hands, Hunter and/or Capela should be the consolation. I still think there is a 3-team trade here with PHX that ships Collins off to them and the Mavs get their choice over Hunter or Ayton.

Edit:
Was playing around in the trade machine. I don't think there's a realistic avenue for the Mavs to get Ayton anymore much to my dismay. But there does still seem to be a 3-team trade that makes sense for everyone:

DAL- Capela+Hunter
ATL- Ayton+THJ
PHX- Collins+Bullock+McGee

PHX gets 2 starters for Ayton at positions of need plus a center. This increases their salary by ~8 mil, but they're in cap hell anyways and McGee+Bullock are flexible enough to be S/W and/or come off the books quickly.

ATL gets a starting center in return for Capela at roughly the same value, but also get well below the tax line getting off of Hunter. They replace Hunter with another shooting wing that they need. This move clears 15 mil of salary for them.

The Mavs they obviously nail down their rotations. If we expand the SAC/OKC deal, the net salary coming in is ~54 mil (21+20+12) and the net outgoing is ~52 mil (17+18+10+6). Overall an increase of 2 mil from where they used to be with Bertans

Rotations are if they can't offload Holmes (and I doubt they can)
Luka/Hardy/vet min (Dragic finally?)
Kyrie/Green/
Hunter/Pinson
Maxi/OMP/Vet min (Morris? Love?)
Capela/Lively/Holmes

Total roster salaries after the trade: ~172 mil. This is assuming Kyrie signs for his full max starting ~48 mil. If he takes a slight discount (say 40~ mil starting salary), then the Mavs avoid paying luxury tax and the 1st apron all together. If they found a way to offload Holmes (and say replace Powell at the vet min with him), then they'd be able to just squeeze out the MLE but the math is tight.

Edit 2: I've realized above is an overcomplicated trade and the Mavs can easily just cut PHX out of it and deal with ATL directly. Theoretically, THJ+Bullock+McGee is enough for Collins and either Capela or Hunter as payment. The money is largely the same and the rotations look like:

Luka/Hardy/vet min (Dragic finally?)
Kyrie/Green/
Hunter/Pinson
Collins/Maxi/OMP/
Holmes/Lively/vet min (Powell?)

Or:
Luka/Hardy/vet min (Dragic finally?)
Kyrie/Green/
Hunter/OMP/Pinson
Collins/Maxi/vet min (Morris? Love?)
Capela/Lively/Holmes

In either case, the Mavs are either relying too much on Holmes being useful or have a whole at the wing and are relying Collins/OMP/Green to work there.

[StepBackJay]

Spotrac has jumped the gun on that trade by doing their sheets before the deal is actually finished. At this point, no one knows whether the TK will be paid, or if more teams/players might be added to the deal.

Let me add a trade idea that works from multiple angles IF the Mavs can get Bullock to extend his deadline:

Add-on to the OKC/SAC/DAL deal
Bullock (to be s-waived), McGee to ATL
Capela, Johnson to DAL
Holmes has to waive his TK (positive cap/tax implications for the Mavs)

End result -- Mavs are under Apron 1 and hard-capped, ATL is under tax line with room to spare. In fact, they could probably waive RB and not stretch him and still be under the tax line.

Not sure why ATL would do this deal now if they wouldn't do it draft night and move up 5 spots

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/noahweber00/status/1...24384?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A

Trade talks between the Hawks and Mavericks were buzzing until 24 hours before the draft.

The Mavericks rejected "all proposals involving Collins," per @TheSteinLine.

If this is reported to be true it seems like Collins' contract is a deal-breaker no matter what. If so they need to find a 3rd team that wouldn't mind taking Collins and a guy like THJ as payment and the Mavs get either Hunter/Bey/Capela.

[F Gump]

Not sure why ATL would do this deal now if they wouldn't do it draft night and move up 5 spots

1 ATL may indeed not have an interest in trading Capella, but they must do SOMETHING, and it will all come at a price to them, because they have to erase 10-11M in payroll
2 Just to be clear, ATL didn't get that offer from DAL on draft day. What the talks included, we can't be sure, but OKC had a more suitable and better offer anyhow, so we'll never know what a Capella deal would have required then.
...See the Stein quote above: "Trade talks between the Hawks and Mavericks were buzzing until 24 hours before the draft. The Mavericks rejected "all proposals involving Collins," per @TheSteinLine. That tells me that they would have had to be discussing OTHER players to Dallas instead, so Capella may indeed have been close to being moved. I would assume the equation for DAL would have been to end up with Lively OR Capella (because ATL would have wanted Lively with the pick), and what does it cost to go from one to the other besides the move from 10 to 15. I am guessing Mavs dangled Bertans (who would solve ATL payroll issues via s-w) and 10, ATL wanted more on the side, and Mavs just refused.
3 And that's now history. If you strike out with one set of demands, and then desperately need a deal later, your asking price may get way more attractive.
4 If I can get Brown, don't want an ATL deal anyhow, fwiw. They can't do both, because they use the same cap room.

[Mavs2021]

So to add some new ideas and stay with the young upside veteran theme.


25 year old SG Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk has shown some nice progress lately in Charlotte. I don´t think he´ll be high on the free agency priority list, but he could be an excellent tax payer MLE target.

Last 10 games of the season: 16/4/5 with 1.3 stls, 45/39/76. Can put the ball on the floor a little.

Another player that would suit that role is Jordan Nwora in Indiana. Maybe a S&T with Dwight Powell.

Already mentioned the idea to use the rest of the TPE to sign Dario Saric into it from OKC. He has shown real recovery progress after the trade.

Maybe the big deal is THJ + McGee + unprotected 2027 for Jerami Grant.

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/noahweber00/status/1...24384?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A



If this is reported to be true it seems like Collins' contract is a deal-breaker no matter what. If so they need to find a 3rd team that wouldn't mind taking Collins and a guy like THJ as payment and the Mavs get either Hunter/Bey/Capela.

My problem with Collins and the Hawks is that his whole decline is related to his finger and it´s obviously not healing by itself.

Collins can´t enjoy shooting the ball so poorly. The Hawks have been trying to trade him in forever, so the logical choice to improve those chances is SURGERY.

Just a press release that they have surgically repaired his finger would increase his trade value, even if there is no physical improvement.

So my question is: What´s up with that?

Guess: John Collins is another candidate for the Wizards, where bad contracts will magically disappear for the next five years.

[DallasMaverick]

https://twitter.com/noahweber00/status/1...24384?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A



If this is reported to be true it seems like Collins' contract is a deal-breaker no matter what. If so they need to find a 3rd team that wouldn't mind taking Collins and a guy like THJ as payment and the Mavs get either Hunter/Bey/Capela.

I love Nico.

[sterlingmallory]

I've been hearing Nets fans say that there are rumors that Kyrie was the reason the Nets didn't re-sign Brown. I wonder if that's true and if it would have any factor in our pursuit of him.

[Jason Terry]

Bullock doesn't bring more than Anderson, at least in my eyes. If Bullock isn't making shots, he's useless.  Anderson has more intangibles and makes winning plays. and although he's not better at shooting the 3, he's a better passer, rebounder, and defender. Why would the T-Pups even consider this?  JMO

Anderson is thought to be available after the guy they mortgaged their whole future for punched him a few months ago. 

But the return might not be enough, they would need to see Reggie as the type of player they need

[Dundalis]

I say what I mean. I also didn’t say “best we could hope for”, I said “best we should hope for”. There is a difference with the change of words and I mostly choose my words carefully due to responses like this. 

I haven’t seen anything that has Cuban and Nico talking so flippantly about resigning Kyrie, can I get a source on that? Everything I see is eerily similar to what they said about Brunson last year. 

Following Cuban as long as we have, we know Kyrie’s being retained is his strongest need for the team. I believe his confidence in retaining Kyrie is what has helped him relax the reigns a bit (as FGump recently talked about) on micro managing things. 

I also believe keeping Kyrie is more important than you are making it out to be. No one is interested in Luka playing hero ball and wearing himself out at the end of the season yet again (well, maybe you are). 

I also am pretty much certain that the FO is not going into negotiations with the take it or leave it attitude you are expressing. Kyrie will have at least 1 other option going into the negotiations or his agent (mother) isn’t doing their job. We already know Hou is a possibility, there could be another team to emerge, never know. You may think, fine, let him go there. I have no doubt our FO does not share that sentiment.

Both Nico and Cuban clearly intimated they would love to resign Kyrie, but either said it's not Kyrie or bust (Cuban), then Nico stated on the radio that while they want to resign Kyrie, they have now brought in players that will work regardless of whether he comes back or not. You can treat these comments as nothing, but this is NOT what you see from a FO that is planning to ensure a star resigns at all costs (it's night and day compared to Cuban's definitive contract extension comments after trading for KP for example, before KP had even stepped on the court).

Luka wearing himself out has zero to do with how he's used (or at least much less than people keep harping on about) and everything to do with his conditioning. That's on him, no one else. Kyrie's TOP was not any greater than Dinwiddie's, or Brunson's before him. Luka has had guys take ball handling duties away from him well before Kyrie, and could have taken more off him, but HE wants the ball in his hands more often than not, no matter who's playing with him, Kyrie or otherwise.

At this point team success with Kyrie is purely assumed. Because the evidence is we had more success without him. Now I'm not saying Kyrie makes this team worse, but IMO a lot of what Kyrie does offensively is at least partially offset by the disadvantage of a small 6'2 guard defensively, and it has knock on effects. He also has off court issues that you simply can't ignore. We lock ourselves into a long term deal with Kyrie at our absolute peril IMO, his history is clear cut, the FO can think what they want, but the above comments give me hope they aren't going into the negotiations with absolute blinders on thinking that it's Kyrie or bust, because it simply isn't, and a WCF without him should at least be a partial indication of that.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Both Nico and Cuban clearly intimated they would love to resign Kyrie, but either said it's not Kyrie or bust (Cuban), then Nico stated on the radio that while they want to resign Kyrie, they have now brought in players that will work regardless of whether he comes back or not. You can treat these comments as nothing, but this is NOT what you see from a FO that is planning to ensure a star resigns at all costs (it's night and day compared to Cuban's definitive contract extension comments after trading for KP for example, before KP had even stepped on the court).

I wonder if we need to think of certain rumors as belonging on one of two paths.

The Kyrie stays path requires us to look for defensive minded wings.  The Kyrie goes path probably needs more offensive punch from somewhere.  I'm not a fan of adding Kuzma to Luka and Kyrie.  I might be talked into it if Kyrie is gone.  Maybe Jerami Grant comes into play in such a scenario if Portland moves Dame.

[Mavs2021]

Let´s remember that the Spurs let Anderson go as a RFA and that Memphis let him go, too. Admittedly he stayed a while on all those teams, but with the confirmed rumours that he can be a bit of an a**hole, I´m not sure you want to add him to our currently fragile construct.

[omahen]

He just can't stick anywhere, but I would give him a 2-way deal to see if there is anything.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...1576797184

[ItsGoTime]

Both Nico and Cuban clearly intimated they would love to resign Kyrie, but either said it's not Kyrie or bust (Cuban), then Nico stated on the radio that while they want to resign Kyrie, they have now brought in players that will work regardless of whether he comes back or not. You can treat these comments as nothing, but this is NOT what you see from a FO that is planning to ensure a star resigns at all costs (it's night and day compared to Cuban's definitive contract extension comments after trading for KP for example, before KP had even stepped on the court).

Luka wearing himself out has zero to do with how he's used (or at least much less than people keep harping on about) and everything to do with his conditioning. That's on him, no one else. Kyrie's TOP was not any greater than Dinwiddie's, or Brunson's before him. Luka has had guys take ball handling duties away from him well before Kyrie, and could have taken more off him, but HE wants the ball in his hands more often than not, no matter who's playing with him, Kyrie or otherwise.

At this point team success with Kyrie is purely assumed. Because the evidence is we had more success without him. Now I'm not saying Kyrie makes this team worse, but IMO a lot of what Kyrie does offensively is at least partially offset by the disadvantage of a small 6'2 guard defensively, and it has knock on effects. He also has off court issues that you simply can't ignore. We lock ourselves into a long term deal with Kyrie at our absolute peril IMO, his history is clear cut, the FO can think what they want, but the above comments give me hope they aren't going into the negotiations with absolute blinders on thinking that it's Kyrie or bust, because it simply isn't, and a WCF without him should at least be a partial indication of that.

Ok, if they said that on radio or after the draft, that’s fine. Doesn’t explain the way you described them going in there guns a blazin style, but sure, negotiations might be a bit less desperate than sign him at all costs. 

I think the $40M flat salary represents plenty of give and take from both sides (if they can negotiate it down to $40M declining, even better). I stand by my original post.

[Branduil]

So, here's an idea which can't be done this offseason, but could during midseason: Kyrie to LAC for Paul George

[Knutsen]

So, here's an idea which can't be done this offseason, but could during midseason: Kyrie to LAC for Paul George

Not interested at all - misses as many games and most of all is two years older than Kyrie, which makes the „timeline-match“ to Luka even worse.

[Branduil]

Not interested at all - misses as many games and most of all is two years older than Kyrie, which makes the „timeline-match“ to Luka even worse.

True, but two things to consider:

1) George's contract has only two years left, with a player option next offseason. So you can evaluate how to go forward after this season.
2) Imagine a scenario where
a) The Luka/Kyrie fit is still bad, AND
b) Hardy takes a big leap and now looks like someone who could start
So now you're stuck in a situation where Hardy deserves a starting spot, but can't be on the floor with Kyrie, who is still a bad fit. Trading Kyrie for Paul George would allow you to try out a Luka/Hardy/Green/PG3/C lineup with strong two-way potential, and now you basically enter a two-year transition window where you can try to win with Luka + PG3 while the young players develop.

There's a lot of ifs, but I don't think it's the most unlikely scenario that we end up in a bad place again with Luka + Kyrie.

[Dundalis]

Ok, if they said that on radio or after the draft, that’s fine. Doesn’t explain the way you described them going in there guns a blazin style, but sure, negotiations might be a bit less desperate than sign him at all costs. 

I think the $40M flat salary represents plenty of give and take from both sides (if they can negotiate it down to $40M declining, even better). I stand by my original post.

I didn't say they would go in there guns blazin style, I said I personally don't value Kyrie being here longer term as necessary for the team to reach it's goal, and I merely intimated that the FO is showing signs they might at least be thinking more along those lines than the straight let's sign him for whatever he wants cause he's a superstar. It's also not really the annual amount that concerns me (as long as we keep the full MLE I don't care too much). It's the length.

If things don't work out well, either on or off court wise, or both, I think we are going to see that play out next season. And I think the chances of that happening are a lot higher than people are accounting for. Kyrie Irving on a 2+1 contract is gonna be way way easier to move than Kyrie Irving on a 4-5 year max deal. Literally the difference between us potentially getting some assets in return vs literally having to add good assets to get rid of him. And I just think there is plenty of evidence that this team has just as much potential to go all the way surrounding Luka with great pieces, as having a second superstar, and in particular a second superstar that IMO isn't really close to the ideal fit next to him. The fact that the FO is proving they are competent at making good intelligent moves to improve the team makes me even more confident we'd be just fine building the team without Kyrie.