Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[ItsGoTime]

Ya I think as much grief as he gets in the media I don't think his value is as low as some people think it is.

I think that people suggesting the trades they are proposing as what they themselves would do to be able to like the trade and doesn’t really reflect what the league-wide value may actually be. It’s a familiar sight. It would make it much easier for the reader if they would actually say that in the post though.

[OBX Maverick]

I think that people suggesting the trades they are proposing as what they themselves would do to be able to like the trade and doesn’t really reflect what the league-wide value may actually be. It’s a familiar sight. It would make it much easier for the reader if they would actually say that in the post though.

What???? Folks here spinning trades with Mavs-colored glasses??  No-way!!!!!

[DanSchwartzgan]

• https://medium.com/mavsforum/mavericks-t...44aebb6f9e - Building off a Cato idea Mavs get Capela in a trade-back that involves THJ and McGee
  

I like your updated version of this where you add McGee to the deal (as opposed to the Cato version that was just THJ, Capela and the picks).  It balances the value of giving up #10 better than the original.  It clears an extra $5.7mm and creates a $5.4mm TE.  It is simple and clean and puts the Maverick’s investment at a position of need instead of a position of abundance.  

It passes the “why would Atlanta do this” test.  They can get a more coveted player at 10, get needed outside shooting and move Okongwu to the starting C spot.

Personally I’m not in love with being at #10.  I think there is a dropoff after the guys who most frequently get mocked in the top 9.  Meanwhile, I like almost everyone from among Coulibaly, L. Miller, Bufkin, Wallace, Hawkins, Clowney, JHS, Lively and Whitehead.  If someone takes Dick prior to 15, five of the guys I listed will still be there at 15.  Admittedly, there are some high ceiling, low floor guys here, but multiple guys from this list are likely to pass at least some of the guys currently projected in the Top 9.

[Jason Terry]

^ In regard to being at 10 with a “clear” top 9…….all it takes is 1 team in the top 9 to pick a wild card player. It usually happens every year(reminder we have the Wizards picking ahead of us). So, it could be valuable if someone falls. Just takes one player

Who will that be? I think Ausar could fall

Wemby
Miller
Scoot
Amen
Whitmore
Walker supposedly has a promise from a team

Hendricks
Black
Wildcard pick at 7,8,9- Wallace/Bufkin/George/Hawkins etc

10. Ausar. Mavs trade pick at high value

Or if it’s Black that falls, then i could see teams motivated to trade up for him

[Chicagojk]

^ In regard to being at 10 with a “clear” top 9…….all it takes is 1 team in the top 9 to pick a wild card player. It usually happens every year(reminder we have the Wizards picking ahead of us). So, it could be valuable if someone falls. Just takes one player

Who will that be? I think Ausar could fall

Wemby
Miller
Scoot
Amen
Whitmore
Walker supposedly has a promise from a team

Hendricks
Black
Wildcard pick at 7,8,9- Wallace/Bufkin/George/Hawkins etc

10. Ausar. Mavs trade pick at high value

Or if it’s Black that falls, then i could see teams motivated to trade up for him

Yes, all true.   I was watching Dick, Wallace and Bufkin and all are really interesting prospects.    They could very well be in that third tier that is lumped together as the first 9.    We will see.

My two favorites are Black and Walker at 10, if we keep the pick.  I have almost no hope Black makes it to 10.   It just feels like players like him have done really well early in the past few drafts.  I do think there is a chance Walker makes it to 10.   Maybe 20-30% chance?  Walker is not my favorite prospect in this draft, but I think he would fit this team perfectly.   Him and Naz Reid would be my ideal offseason.  Not perfect, but two young, athletic skilled big guys.  While also keeping your expirings and future picks open.    It allows a lot of flexibility.   Now is either move feasible...that is another question.

I also agree with Dan though that there are some intriguing players in the teens as well.

[Jason Terry]

Mavs get: 31, Bojan, Wiseman, Stewart

Pistons get: 10, THJ, Bertans, Mcgee

[F Gump]

I like your updated version of this where you add McGee to the deal (as opposed to the Cato version that was just THJ, Capela and the picks).  It balances the value of giving up #10 better than the original.  It clears an extra $5.7mm and creates a $5.4mm TE.  It is simple and clean and puts the Maverick’s investment at a position of need instead of a position of abundance.  .

If I understand correctly
THJ+McGee+10
Capela +15

The salary matching on that doesn't work. In June Capela's 18.7 doesn't cover 19.6+5.4, and as things stand, in July either (Capela's 20.6 doesn't cover 17.9+5.7 under the 110% rule). In addition, ATL is already a few mill over the Apron 1 as is (thus the 110% rule), and will likely be looking for deals to reduce salary rather than increase (this adds 3M).

The money works if you add someone at the bottom of the ATL salary list to the above, coming to the Mavs. They have a real glut of SFs, with Hunter, Jalen Johnson (pick 20 in 2021), AJ Griffin (pick 16 in 2022), and the newly-acquired S Bey. Johnson and Griffin seem to be at the back of the pack for minutes, and both have about the right sized salary to work. From the stat lines, JJ looks like he might be a DFS starter kit, fwiw.

THJ+McGee+10
Capela+Johnson +15

That works in either June or July and is about a wash salary-wise.

[StepBackJay]

If I understand correctly
THJ+McGee+10
Capela +15

The salary matching on that doesn't work. In June Capela's 18.7 doesn't cover 19.6+5.4, and as things stand, in July either (Capela's 20.6 doesn't cover 17.9+5.7 under the 110% rule). In addition, ATL is already a few mill over the Apron 1 as is (thus the 110% rule), and will likely be looking for deals to reduce salary rather than increase (this adds 3M).

The money works if you add someone at the bottom of the ATL salary list to the above, coming to the Mavs. They have a real glut of SFs, with Hunter, Jalen Johnson (pick 20 in 2021), AJ Griffin (pick 16 in 2022), and the newly-acquired S Bey. Johnson and Griffin seem to be at the back of the pack for minutes, and both have about the right sized salary to work. From the stat lines, JJ looks like he might be a DFS starter kit, fwiw.

THJ+McGee+10
Capela+Johnson +15

That works in either June or July and is about a wash salary-wise.

Good point I didn't think about that angle

[DanSchwartzgan]

If I understand correctly
THJ+McGee+10
Capela +15

The salary matching on that doesn't work. In June Capela's 18.7 doesn't cover 19.6+5.4, and as things stand, in July either (Capela's 20.6 doesn't cover 17.9+5.7 under the 110% rule). In addition, ATL is already a few mill over the Apron 1 as is (thus the 110% rule), and will likely be looking for deals to reduce salary rather than increase (this adds 3M).

The money works if you add someone at the bottom of the ATL salary list to the above, coming to the Mavs. They have a real glut of SFs, with Hunter, Jalen Johnson (pick 20 in 2021), AJ Griffin (pick 16 in 2022), and the newly-acquired S Bey. Johnson and Griffin seem to be at the back of the pack for minutes, and both have about the right sized salary to work. From the stat lines, JJ looks like he might be a DFS starter kit, fwiw.

THJ+McGee+10
Capela+Johnson +15

That works in either June or July and is about a wash salary-wise.

Atlanta has a TE that takes in McGee.

[BigDirk41]

In what world would Williams be worth 20M per?  Grant Williams?  He's an undersized PF that can spread the floor.  Not a rebounder. Not a great defender.  Pound sand on that.

He's not worth that to me. I completely agree. I'm just stating what he's rumored to be wanting and he turned down 4/50 from the Celtics.

[StepBackJay]

Mavs get: 31, Bojan, Wiseman, Stewart

Pistons get: 10, THJ, Bertans, Mcgee

Wiseman is trash I would leave him out of it and do Bojan + Stewart for THJ + McGee and 10/31 swaps. That would be a lot for Mavs to give up. Stewart is a good fit at starting center. Bojan is an upgrade over THJ. Basically you are getting 2 starters out of the deal in exchange for sometimes start THJ and a contract dump in McGee.

[F Gump]

Atlanta has a TE that takes in McGee.

Ok. But I still think ATL will be salary-sensitive (using the TE increases their payroll by 3M) and Johnson could make sense for the Mavs.

[Mavsfan12]

Ok. But I still think ATL will be salary-sensitive (using the TE increases their payroll by 3M) and Johnson could make sense for the Mavs.

I agree... I think that they whole reason ATL is a trade hot spot is because of their desire to cut salary.  I don't think that they will be looking to take any money back into their TE.  Sign me up to add Griffin!  Part of the reason I would think that Hunter would be available is to free up playing time for a guy like that.  I like his potential.  Tbh, they could keep their pick if he was included.  Pass on Jalen Johnson - can't shoot.

[Mavsfan12]

Wiseman is trash I would leave him out of it and do Bojan + Stewart for THJ + McGee and 10/31 swaps. That would be a lot for Mavs to give up. Stewart is a good fit at starting center. Bojan is an upgrade over THJ. Basically you are getting 2 starters out of the deal in exchange for sometimes start THJ and a contract dump in McGee.

I strongly disagree with your take here.  Stewart is seriously limited as a player in this league as a 6'8'' C.  Doesn't provide much in terms of rim protection.  I wouldn't mind him as a throw in, but view him as a depth piece.  Wiseman has far more upside and played better than Stewart had for Detroit after the trade.  He needs to stay healthy and get minutes.  As for Bojan, he is a great replacement for THJ, who fits better as he can play some 4, but I am not targeting him - would only do the trade if the prize was the C's.  The Mavs need to address the Frontcourt - specifically defensively.  If Wiseman/Stewart do that for you, and you get Bojan, great.  Otherwise, use the asset to get a C who you believe in.  I don't believe in Stewart as a target to use the 10th pick for AT ALL!  If you don't like Wiseman, than this trade doesn't make sense for the Mavs.

[ItsGoTime]

Personally I’m not in love with being at #10.  I think there is a dropoff after the guys who most frequently get mocked in the top 9.  Meanwhile, I like almost everyone from among Coulibaly, L. Miller, Bufkin, Wallace, Hawkins, Clowney, JHS, Lively and Whitehead.  If someone takes Dick prior to 15, five of the guys I listed will still be there at 15.  Admittedly, there are some high ceiling, low floor guys here, but multiple guys from this list are likely to pass at least some of the guys currently projected in the Top 9.

In that case, might 2 of them be available at #21 due to teams liking other players? That might make the trade down with Bkn pretty enticing. Pick a guy both us and Bkn likes at 10 (Wallace might be BPA there) and if 2 of our guys are there at 21, execute the trade. If not, call up Utah for 16 and one of the Cle picks with an added protection.

[surfpuckmd]

Spurs get 21 and Bertans(17 million)

Nets get 10 and Khem Birch(6.9 million)

Mavs get 22 and DFS(13.9 million)

Who says no?

Spurs are the one team that makes sense for Bertans. Good locker room guy that Pop can trust. Spurs essentially trade 10 million in cap for pick 21. They need to hit the floor pre-season anyway

Nets need to shed salary. Both now and future. Cam Johnson extension will be expensive. Dorian doesn’t fit their plans. They can build around Bridges/Johnson/Claxton/Pick 10 as their young core.

Mavs would get the versatile defensive wing we need. Be in good shape cap wise. And still have a late 1st and the exception to add players

I think this is one of the best and most reasonable trade proposals I've seen.  I think all three teams would be getting what they want.

I believe the Spurs might want a little extra draft compensation-  perhaps a couple of 2nd-round picks.  I think Brooklyn might be willing to include that.  The 10th pick would get Brooklyn one of the better PG prospects-  Cason Wallace, Hood-Schifino or Kobe Bufkin.  I think Finney-Smith is superfluous for them and they would prefer to have less cap obligation.  

 I think only a few teams will still be tanking for the 2024 draft and so the premium to take on bad contracts will go up a little.  I think the Spurs would want a bit more to absorb the Bertans contract but it would be a small adjustment.  

Overall, excellent trade proposal.  I would like to see this happen.

[Mavsfan12]

I think this is one of the best and most reasonable trade proposals I've seen.  I think all three teams would be getting what they want.

I believe the Spurs might want a little extra draft compensation-  perhaps a couple of 2nd-round picks.  I think Brooklyn might be willing to include that.  The 10th pick would get Brooklyn one of the better PG prospects-  Cason Wallace, Hood-Schifino or Kobe Bufkin.  I think Finney-Smith is superfluous for them and they would prefer to have less cap obligation.  

 I think only a few teams will still be tanking for the 2024 draft and so the premium to take on bad contracts will go up a little.  I think the Spurs would want a bit more to absorb the Bertans contract but it would be a small adjustment.  

Overall, excellent trade proposal.  I would like to see this happen.

I think the Mavs would definitely say no to this.  The 10th pick and an expiring for DFS?  That is insane.  For a 30yo player with 3 yrs remaining, who, let's be honest, absolutely sucked in BKN.  I love me some Doe Doe, but this is just ridiculous value.  BKN would be lucky to get off that contract right now, and could probably get it done for just a salary dump. To get value for him would be highly unlikely.  I have liked the idea of a Wood SNT going there for him if we can't find another spot for him.  Wood would be a much better fit for BKN than DFS.  But re-acquiring him is basically a homer play - if it were a blind player with his stats, it is a 0/10 idea.  He is a reclamation project at this point.  He was THAT bad.  And tbh, he wasn't good in DAL last year either.  I would be pretty pissed if we used a top 10 pick like this - basically worst case scenario to get off Bertans' contract.  UGH!!!

Getting a player for the MLE, like Thybulle would be a better play - younger, cheaper, and wouldn't cost a freaking Top 10 pick!!!

[F Gump]

I agree... I think that they whole reason ATL is a trade hot spot is because of their desire to cut salary.  I don't think that they will be looking to take any money back into their TE.  Sign me up to add Griffin!  Part of the reason I would think that Hunter would be available is to free up playing time for a guy like that.  I like his potential.  Tbh, they could keep their pick if he was included.  Pass on Jalen Johnson - can't shoot.

Your points are good.

The reason you don't want Johnson (" Pass on Jalen Johnson - can't shoot ") is valid, but that actually feeds into why I think he might make perfect sense as a target, based on two counterpoints:
(1) I am not looking for the player with the most value out of those 4, but rather that ATL will find easy to toss in without raising their demand (he's the one with the least minutes, which shows me they don't highly value him), and
(2) I'm not bothered by that lack of shooting, because he can defend, he can rebound (best of the 4), he's the tallest of the 4 (Mavs have loads of smalls and guards), and I'm open to putting hm on the DFS plan where the Mavs got value out of that exact same sort of player. He would be on rookie scale for 2 more seasons at bargain contract price.

I would take Griffin instead, if that was ATL's preferred throw-in. AG is younger, longer contract control, a better shooter and a worse rebounder/defender.

THJ+McGee+10
Capela+Johnson (or Griffin) +15

That is about a wash salary-wise.

If trading pick 10 to ATL, I want pick 15 as part of the return. Mavs need to put good developable players in the pipeline. Trade a pick, get a pick.

[SleepingHero]

Jalen Duren is the center I want from DET. Stewart is nice too. But Duren is a legit starter.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Jalen Duren is the center I want from DET. Stewart is nice too. But Duren is a legit starter.

Good luck with that. That kid is a stud already at 19 yrs old. Monty Williams is in Detroit now, and he should be very good at working with their young roster. Phoenix won 19 games the year before he took over, and he had them in the Finals, three years later. Not saying he'll do the same in Detroit, but he'll definitely help improve them.