Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[Mikelorenzo]

If KI spreads and everything goes as normal, now I think we are 2 decent players away from being a superpower and I think both are affordable next offseason... I think Capella ticks a lot of boxes and the price would be affordable, the wing big ? can we get Grant for um FRP..?Cam Johnson?recover DFS..? spend better on a guard ..? Caruso ?

[HAguiar95]

Yup, we need two starting frontcourt players, gotta spend those picks, since we don't have assets. This year will be hard to win without capable paint protectors/rebounders. Bertans + '27 1st for a true C (Y). McGee + Bullock + '25 1st for a PF (X). Sign a PG for the tax-MLE (Z)

Luka/Z
Irving (re-sign max)/Hardy
Green/Hardaway
X/Kleber
Y/Powell (re-sign vet min.)

Could we give a 1st for Grant Williams and promise him a starting role (he's not getting that in BOS)? He'd be a good role player, capable defender and 3-pt shooter (although undersized). Or maybe a Bertans/McGee 1st for Collins? K. Williams from OKC?

For the C spot, I also got Capela and Zubac as a target, but it'd have to be a 3-team deal, since ATL and LAC are trying to win as well, so it's not going to be cheap.

We definetely missed our chance on cashing in Wood. Now he's going to leave and we paid a 1st to get him (although very late).

[Chicagojk]

Yup, we need two starting frontcourt players, gotta spend those picks, since we don't have assets. This year will be hard to win without capable paint protectors/rebounders. Bertans + '27 1st for a true C (Y). McGee + Bullock + '25 1st for a PF (X). Sign a PG for the tax-MLE (Z)

Luka/Z
Irving (re-sign max)/Hardy
Green/Hardaway
X/Kleber
Y/Powell (re-sign vet min.)

Could we give a 1st for Grant Williams and promise him a starting role (he's not getting that in BOS)? He'd be a good role player, capable defender and 3-pt shooter (although undersized). Or maybe a Bertans/McGee 1st for Collins? K. Williams from OKC?

For the C spot, I also got Capela and Zubac as a target, but it'd have to be a 3-team deal, since ATL and LAC are trying to win as well, so it's not going to be cheap.

We definetely missed our chance on cashing in Wood. Now he's going to leave and we paid a 1st to get him (although very late).

Slow-Mo for the tax MLE was a real nice signing by Minny.  That type of bench player would really help us. 

I am really curious if there was absolutely no market for Wood at the trade deadline.   Sort of strange to not move him if this is the role you envision for him since the trade deadline.

[ItsGoTime]

I know it’s blasphemy, but, offseason trade where Tor ends up with a top 10 23 pick:

Siakam/FVV (snt)/Achiuwa/23 FRP/26 FRP/28 FRP for Luka/THJ/Bertans

Max Kyrie and use his connections to get quality role players.

Kyrie/FVV/Green/Siakam/Achiuwa or another signing/23 pick

For Tor:
Luka/GTJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl youth movement for them.

[SleepingHero]

I know it’s blasphemy, but, offseason trade where Tor ends up with a top 10 23 pick:

Siakam/FVV (snt)/Achiuwa/23 FRP/26 FRP/28 FRP for Luka/THJ/Bertans

Max Kyrie and use his connections to get quality role players.

Kyrie/FVV/Green/Siakam/Achiuwa or another signing/23 pick

For Tor:
Luka/GTJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl youth movement for them.

You should get a 1 day ban for even thinking about Luka trades.

I'm vomiting at this proposed scenario.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/162...34304?s=20&t=Lr9-UlhxpGO76Oc8Nn_-aw

Something to keep an eye on.

[ItsGoTime]

You should get a 1 day ban for even thinking about Luka trades.

I'm vomiting at this proposed scenario.

Eh, I think the team ends up highly upgraded with the trade with much better balance. We also add to our picks in order to bring in more drafted talent. I’m not all that mad at the trade. Very well aware the team will never do it.

[SleepingHero]

Eh, I think the team ends up highly upgraded with the trade with much better balance. We also add to our picks in order to bring in more drafted talent. I’m not all that mad at the trade. Very well aware the team will never do it.

KD just went for 4 FRP and a pick swap. And this is 34 year old post achilles with a current MCL sprain KD. 

Luka is not being traded for just 3 unprotected firsts and an all-star. 

He's going for a MINIMUM of 7 FRP. A 23 year old MVP candidate who's averaging a 30 point triple double is not a normal trade asset. He'd be the best trade asset of all time. The only team that could afford Luka is OKC and it'd cost them SGA and at least 10 of their firsts realistically. 

Even then that trade puts the team in a worse position as there are only like 2 guys objectively better than Luka right now and it's debatable if they'll still be better than Luka in the next 3 years.

[ItsGoTime]

KD just went for 4 FRP and a pick swap. And this is 34 year old post achilles with a current MCL sprain KD. 

Luka is not being traded for just 3 unprotected firsts and an all-star. 

He's going for a MINIMUM of 7 FRP. A 23 year old MVP candidate who's averaging a 30 point triple double is not a normal trade asset. He'd be the best trade asset of all time. The only team that could afford Luka is OKC and it'd cost them SGA and at least 10 of their firsts realistically. 

Even then that trade puts the team in a worse position as there are only like 2 guys objectively better than Luka right now and it's debatable if they'll still be better than Luka in the next 3 years.

The picks are all the Raps have to give, oh wait, they’d have 30 as well so add that. Also a top 10 pick in this draft is pretty valuable. There might be room to talk about adding OG in the trade. Paschall is an all-NBA talent though, not just an allstar.

[LukaMVP]

imagine how great our team would've been if we had a bol type of guy at C. our offense is awesome to say the least, and we just need a tyson Chandler type of acquisition to complete a champion squad.

[ItsGoTime]

imagine how great our team would've been if we had a bol type of guy at C. our offense is awesome to say the least, and we just need a tyson Chandler type of acquisition to complete a champion squad.

Prime TC would certainly help this group, but we still need better perimeter defense. Prime TC and Prime Marion and this team is a Champ squad.

[Mikelorenzo]

Johnson is Frank with more size and weight...if we don't get it it's not the end of the world but we could use it for sure..if they somehow buy Noel it would be a great pickup..I wonder if we could have traded for Capella. . He ticks a lot of boxes for us and I have to assume it wouldn't be too expensive..Collins is getting paid and they have a really good young man in OO waiting his turn.. Would Wood+Fill be too far away?..Would savings, getting younger and a good player in Wood be enough? Bertans+Dallas24 for Capella..?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Thinking some more about the conversation over the weekend about the summer and the difficulty of S&T’s given our proximity to the Apron…I have a new thought.  In fact, I’ll call it a stone-cold lock:

Myles Turner

Our need for a center, especially one who plays D, protects the rim some and doesn’t necessarily clog the lane, is pretty clear.  Indy has done some interesting things that I think supports the idea of a pre-determined Turner trade.  

*When they did his renegotiation and extend (a rarely used technique), it was thought they would give him enough in 2022-23 to get to the minimum salary.  This was money they had to spend anyway.  BUT, they went slightly over that.  There was no real need to go above the minimum team salary number.  In fact, it could have hurt them at the TDL as it ate into available cap room (room they used to pick up Nwora, G. Hill and a slew of seconds).

*Going over the minimum salary changes the math on the next two years.  Turner’s next year salary is exactly the 40% decline that is allowable by rule.  If they had simply gone up the the minimum, they would have had to give Turner more in the out years to get to the same number (I think the ‘perception’ of $30mm/year was important to both Turner and agent).  The out year number matters in two scenarios.  1. It changes the amount of cap room Indy will have in the summer.  But, they already had a ton and aren’t typically a free agent destination.  2. They already have a trade targeted for Turner and needed to hit a specific number.

*Part of the transactions last week included waiving Goga…a young center that Carlisle seems to like.  He is back on the squad again after Indy waived Ibaka.

The way I see this working is Bertans and firsts in 25 and 27 (or 24/26) for Turner.  I think it is essentially pre-arranged.  The math on the Turner deal is almost an exact match for Bertans number in 23/24.  In fact, it wouldn’t have been so had Indy paid up to the minimum in 22/23 and more in the out years.  Bertans is essentially an expiring contract.  In fact, Dallas can pay Indy cash for the $5mm Bertans is owed in 24/25 as long as Indy controls his games played.  By next season, the rotation looks like

Turner.      Powell/McGee
Luka.        Maxi
Green.      Bullock
THJ.         Hardy
Irving.      LD/KI

The only other ways to add talent would be TP-MLE, Minimums and a Wood S&T.  I would presume they bring back some inexpensive guys like Frank and Pinson.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Thinking some more about the conversation over the weekend about the summer and the difficulty of S&T’s given our proximity to the Apron…I have a new thought.  In fact, I’ll call it a stone-cold lock:

Myles Turner

Our need for a center, especially one who plays D, protects the rim some and doesn’t necessarily clog the lane, is pretty clear.  Indy has done some interesting things that I think supports the idea of a pre-determined Turner trade.  

*When they did his renegotiation and extend (a rarely used technique), it was thought they would give him enough in 2022-23 to get to the minimum salary.  This was money they had to spend anyway.  BUT, they went slightly over that.  There was no real need to go above the minimum team salary number.  In fact, it could have hurt them at the TDL as it ate into available cap room (room they used to pick up Nwora, G. Hill and a slew of seconds).

*Going over the minimum salary changes the math on the next two years.  Turner’s next year salary is exactly the 40% decline that is allowable by rule.  If they had simply gone up the the minimum, they would have had to give Turner more in the out years to get to the same number (I think the ‘perception’ of $30mm/year was important to both Turner and agent).  The out year number matters in two scenarios.  1. It changes the amount of cap room Indy will have in the summer.  But, they already had a ton and aren’t typically a free agent destination.  2. They already have a trade targeted for Turner and needed to hit a specific number.

*Part of the transactions last week included waiving Goga…a young center that Carlisle seems to like.  He is back on the squad again after Indy waived Ibaka.

The way I see this working is Bertans and firsts in 25 and 27 (or 24/26) for Turner.  I think it is essentially pre-arranged.  The math on the Turner deal is almost an exact match for Bertans number in 23/24.  In fact, it wouldn’t have been so had Indy paid up to the minimum in 22/23 and more in the out years.  Bertans is essentially an expiring contract.  In fact, Dallas can pay Indy cash for the $5mm Bertans is owed in 24/25 as long as Indy controls his games played.  By next season, the rotation looks like

Turner.      Powell/McGee
Luka.        Maxi
Green.      Bullock
THJ.         Hardy
Irving.      LD/KI

The only other ways to add talent would be TP-MLE, Minimums and a Wood S&T.  I would presume they bring back some inexpensive guys like Frank and Pinson.

With all due respect, I thought Bitadze signed a 2 yr deal with Orlando yesterday?

[DanSchwartzgan]

With all due respect, I thought Bitadze signed a 2 yr deal with Orlando yesterday?

Thanks.  I recall that now.  No one told Spotrac.  They have him signing a rest of season deal with Indy the day before:


Current Contract

Goga Bitadze signed a 1 year / $612,181 contract with the Indiana Pacers, including $612,181 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $612,181. In 2022-23, Bitadze will earn a base salary of $612,181, while carrying a cap hit of $590,926 and a dead cap value of $590,926.

[ItsGoTime]

THJ, to me still looks like the odd man on that roster and since his probable attitude/ego won’t allow him to play just as well coming off the bench, he’s a player that should get traded as well for a 2 way player with more defense than offense. The beauty of Luka, once you take your mind off of him NEEDING to take up the pg spot is he can occupy any position 1-4 (5 in emergency/specialty). This helps in the search for that player. The same is somewhat true with Green. Although I myself would rather see him play the 2 spot, he can play the 3 as well (until it is proven which is his best position, kinda like DFS). That positional flex opens the search for a 2-4 with more defense than offense. Might need to add Hardy to THJ depending on the offense of the incoming defender (Since we already used our last 2 remaining FRPs.

[F Gump]

Thinking some more about the conversation over the weekend about the summer and the difficulty of S&T’s given our proximity to the Apron…I have a new thought.  In fact, I’ll call it a stone-cold lock:

Myles Turner

Our need for a center, especially one who plays D, protects the rim some and doesn’t necessarily clog the lane, is pretty clear.  Indy has done some interesting things that I think supports the idea of a pre-determined Turner trade.  

*When they did his renegotiation and extend (a rarely used technique), it was thought they would give him enough in 2022-23 to get to the minimum salary.  This was money they had to spend anyway.  BUT, they went slightly over that.  There was no real need to go above the minimum team salary number.  In fact, it could have hurt them at the TDL as it ate into available cap room (room they used to pick up Nwora, G. Hill and a slew of seconds).

*Going over the minimum salary changes the math on the next two years.  Turner’s next year salary is exactly the 40% decline that is allowable by rule.  If they had simply gone up the the minimum, they would have had to give Turner more in the out years to get to the same number (I think the ‘perception’ of $30mm/year was important to both Turner and agent).  The out year number matters in two scenarios.  1. It changes the amount of cap room Indy will have in the summer.  But, they already had a ton and aren’t typically a free agent destination.  2. They already have a trade targeted for Turner and needed to hit a specific number.

*Part of the transactions last week included waiving Goga…a young center that Carlisle seems to like.  He is back on the squad again after Indy waived Ibaka.

The way I see this working is Bertans and firsts in 25 and 27 (or 24/26) for Turner.  I think it is essentially pre-arranged.  The math on the Turner deal is almost an exact match for Bertans number in 23/24.  In fact, it wouldn’t have been so had Indy paid up to the minimum in 22/23 and more in the out years.  Bertans is essentially an expiring contract.  In fact, Dallas can pay Indy cash for the $5mm Bertans is owed in 24/25 as long as Indy controls his games played.  By next season, the rotation looks like

Turner.      Powell/McGee
Luka.        Maxi
Green.      Bullock
THJ.         Hardy
Irving.      LD/KI

The only other ways to add talent would be TP-MLE, Minimums and a Wood S&T.  I would presume they bring back some inexpensive guys like Frank and Pinson.

In general, I think 2 FRPs for Turner is too much, but I like Bertans + cash + 2026 or 27 FRP for Turner.

But there are a couple ways Indy could be headed. It's possible Indy simply wants to keep him and have a very good player on a cheap cap hit while it builds out the rest of the roster, doncha think? Halliburton is their guy, and he's on the rookie contract countdown while they have a window to build around him. They may be game-planning for the guy they need to be Batman, while also having more talent in hand too.

[ItsGoTime]

In general, I think 2 FRPs for Turner is too much, but I like Bertans + cash + 2026 or 27 FRP for Turner.

But there are a couple ways Indy could be headed. It's possible Indy simply wants to keep him and have a very good player on a cheap cap hit while it builds out the rest of the roster, doncha think? Halliburton is their guy, and he's on the rookie contract countdown while they have a window to build around him. They may be game-planning for the guy they need to be Batman, while also having more talent in hand too.

We haven’t had a recent quote from him about his feelings on staying in Ind, but the last we heard, he was leaving them. To Dan’s point, this may be one of the future deals Nico was talking about.

---

Also, I think Turner on a non-expiring deal is worth 2 FRPs and dead money.

[Chicagojk]

Not all first round picks are the same, but I think we (I) and the national media undervalue our talent.  We have seen it with Jalen and KP (when healthy) are good players.  

BTW, teams must love when Dallas calls.  They just sense the desperation and realize Dallas doesn't care about second rounders.   If this report is true then DFS is two firsts, plus our unprotected 29 pick and two future seconds.   Not a bad haul.   Now the Nets will not be a contenders for a long time but still that is not a bad haul for a guy who may have walked in a few months.   

I swear  I am going to have the biggest party ever when we have a trade when we get a second round pick back.  It is going to be epic. 

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...7723787264

[DanSchwartzgan]

We haven’t had a recent quote from him about his feelings on staying in Ind, but the last we heard, he was leaving them. To Dan’s point, this may be one of the future deals Nico was talking about.

---

Also, I think Turner on a non-expiring deal is worth 2 FRPs and dead money.

Everyone has been going for more picks than I think they are worth.  It feels like one isn’t enough (or something a bunch of teams would be willing to do).

In terms of what Indy wants to do, they certainly could keep Turner and this was smart business on their part if that is what they end up doing.  However, the numbers kind of work in a way that also fit VERY nicely into a Dallas trade scenario with semi-expiring Bertans.  I think the hard question for me to answer is why not just do a Bertans/picks deal now instead of the summer.  The answer is probably LT.  Indy pushed $18mm into 22/23.  That is money that if we did a deal now and then resigned him in the summer would have cost Dallas an extra $60-$70mm.  That is a HUGE financial benefit and probably supersedes the benefit of having Turner here a few months earlier if one thinks like an owner instead of a fan.