Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[SleepingHero]

1 If his contract is "as is," CP3 counts 15.8 for PHX, but 30.8 for ATL. I assume it's in June, to avoid the issues of CP3 g'tee and new Apron 1 rules for all 3 teams.
2 The match doesn't work for ATL (39.8 incoming, but only 23.5 outgoing). ATL has to offload salary somewhere else (about 8.5M of it to team 4) to make it work.
3  I certainly wouldn't do Maxi-THJ-10 for Ayton-15, but it feels like about what PHX would be asking. I at least make PHX also take Javale, which is then a salary wash for DAL in yr 1.

Regarding point 2:

Can't the Hawks add in another overpriced piece here in Hunter? I'm sure the Mavs would be interested. 

Full net trade of:
PHX- THJ+Collins
ATL- Maxi+Reggie+10
Mavs- Hunter+Ayton+15

[F Gump]

Regarding point 2:

Can't the Hawks add in another overpriced piece here in Hunter? I'm sure the Mavs would be interested. 

Full net trade of:
PHX- THJ+Collins
ATL- Maxi+Reggie+10
Mavs- Hunter+Ayton+15

That's not the same trade, since the whole point was CP3 and dealing with his contract, and he isn't in it. (And while the salary now matches for ATL, it doesn't for DAL or for PHX.)

[DanSchwartzgan]

1 If his contract is "as is," CP3 counts 15.8 for PHX, but 30.8 for ATL. I assume it's in June, to avoid the issues of CP3 g'tee and new Apron 1 rules for all 3 teams.
2 The match doesn't work for ATL (39.8 incoming, but only 23.5 outgoing). ATL has to offload salary somewhere else (about 8.5M of it to team 4) to make it work.
3  I certainly wouldn't do Maxi-THJ-10 for Ayton-15, but it feels like about what PHX would be asking. I at least make PHX also take Javale, which is then a salary wash for DAL in yr 1.

Thanks for the reminder regarding #1.  

Atlanta doesn't really have much 'bad' salary, so it is difficult to make this make sense for them if they have to add outgoing salary.  You could pull Maxi out of the deal, but then they are just doing a pick swap and paying Paul $15.8mm to do nothing instead of paying Collins $78mm to do something.  Even then, Atlanta has to add a small salary to the deal.  

The Atlanta part of this was the shakiest part of what I proposed and it probably doesn't work without Maxi.  The rumors for Collins back at the TDL were Crowder/Shamet in a deal with Phoenix (this was apparently ready to go until Ishba stepped in).  There was also a Vanderbilt/Beasley deal on the table before the pair went to the Lakers.  This is reporting from Michael Scotto and part of what kept either of these from happening was the pick compensation Atlanta was to receive (all of this happening before details of the new CBA were released).

So, I don't think Maxi, a ton of savings in the out years and the pick swap is outrageous.  But asking Atlanta to add a body makes this much tougher to swallow.

[Chicagojk]

Not really tied to anything, but I was watching Ayton Arizona highlights last night. Where did this big, athletic energetic guy go? I guess he went #1 for a reason.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nHi5R2F0U&t=454s

[Jason Terry]

Eric Pincus was on the Locked-On podcast this morning.  Good listen.  Largely about the CBA, but he did talk Kyrie and Ayton a little bit.  He made an interesting point about C. Paul to Atlanta for Collins as a way to save money for the Hawks.  The Hawks would want something other than the privilege of paying Chris Paul to go away, but Phoenix can't offer a pick.  I wonder if you can tie that in with Ayton to Dallas and find ways to satisfy everyone's wishes.  

I'm not sure how to count CP's salary, but I wonder if there is a world in which Maxi/Paul/#10 ends up on the Hawks, Ayton and #15 end up in Dallas and Collins and THJ end up in Phoenix.

I don’t necessarily like this trade from any of the teams perspective 

Hawks: CP3 and 10th pick

Mavs: Ayton and 15th pick

Suns: Collins, THJ, Bullock, Mcgee

Hawks buy out CP3. Get off Collins long term money. Move up from 15 to 10. Save about $5 million off 23-24 and get under the 1st apron. I think Collins is the guy they would like to move over Capella. They don’t get better next year though

Mavs get a big. Keep a pick. Save a few million off 23-24. But we add a potentially bad contract on a guy with a questionable motor and questionable playoff skills

Suns add depth. Get off the Ayton deal. Roughly break even on salaries. But who is their starting PG and C? And how do they aquire them? Still in an unfavorable cap situation

[DanSchwartzgan]

I don’t necessarily like this trade from any of the teams perspective 

Hawks: CP3 and 10th pick

Mavs: Ayton and 15th pick

Suns: Collins, THJ, Bullock, Mcgee

Hawks buy out CP3. Get off Collins long term money. Move up from 15 to 10. Save about $5 million off 23-24 and get under the 1st apron. I think Collins is the guy they would like to move over Capella. They don’t get better next year though

Mavs get a big. Keep a pick. Save a few million off 23-24. But we add a potentially bad contract on a guy with a questionable motor and questionable playoff skills

Suns add depth. Get off the Ayton deal. Roughly break even on salaries. But who is there hisstarting PG and C? And how do they aquire them? Still in an unfavorable cap situation

This is what I was talking about in my more recent post.  Atlanta has to send out another small contract.  They are getting very little for Collins.  It is a five spot improvement in this draft and they get to eat $16mm worth of buying out CP3.  Feels light.

[omahen]

I don’t necessarily like this trade from any of the teams perspective 

Hawks: CP3 and 10th pick

Mavs: Ayton and 15th pick

Suns: Collins, THJ, Bullock, Mcgee

Hawks buy out CP3. Get off Collins long term money. Move up from 15 to 10. Save about $5 million off 23-24 and get under the 1st apron. I think Collins is the guy they would like to move over Capella. They don’t get better next year though

Mavs get a big. Keep a pick. Save a few million off 23-24. But we add a potentially bad contract on a guy with a questionable motor and questionable playoff skills

Suns add depth. Get off the Ayton deal. Roughly break even on salaries. But who is their starting PG and C? And how do they aquire them? Still in an unfavorable cap situation

I think this is a good trade for Phoenix, although Collins overlaps with Durant. Could they survive playing him as a small ball centre? I am not sure Atlanta is so desperate to just dump Collins. They don't need CP3. But this could be probably easily solved, if CP3 is not part of the deal with THJ going to Atlanta instead of Phoenix. Also, I don't think Bullock is popular in Phoenix, I think they would prefer Kleber, who could play starting centre. Perhaps a bit of change:

Mavs: Ayton, Shamet, #15 (looking next season numbers: 42.5 mil incoming, 35 outgoing)
Atlanta: THJ, #10 (18 incoming, 25 outgoing)
Phoenix: Collins, Kleber, McGee (42 incoming, 42 outgoing)

Mavs get a starting centre and THJ replacement while keeping a solid pick for either drafting or trading for another player. There would be an even bigger hole at big wing position to fill. Atlanta saves money while gets some shooting. Phoenix gets solid depth.

[ItsGoTime]

With Jock emerging a bit in the playoffs, I don’t think Pho is terribly worried about the C position if Ayton were to leave. Jock and Bismack should be able to hold down the fort. Add McGee and they have 3 different looking C’s to throw at a problem. I think they really need to solve the PG and SF positions way more than C if they lose Ayton. Not that I’m advocating bringing Ayton here.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Mavs: Ayton, Shamet, #15 (looking next season numbers: 42.5 mil incoming, 35 outgoing)
Atlanta: THJ, #10 (18 incoming, 25 outgoing)
Phoenix: Collins, Kleber, McGee (42 incoming, 42 outgoing)

I like it.  I think it makes sense, but would like it better if we substituted Reggie for Maxi.

Bottom line, it feels like there is probably something doable with the base elements being Ayton to Dallas and Collins to Phoenix.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Do we really think that Ayton gives us more than Jarrett Allen?

Contract: Ayton $32.4m, 3yrs, $101.9m / Allen $20mill, 3yrs, $60m
Age: Ayton 24 / Allen 25
Reb%: Ayton 16.4 / Allen 15.9
Def Rating: Ayton 113.2 / Allen 108.8
Net Rating: Ayton 0.0 / Allen 7.7
PIE: Ayton 14.5 / Allen 13.4
Production: Ayton 18.0pts, 10.0rbs, 0.6stls, 0.8blks / Allen 14.3pts, 9.8rbs, 0.8stl, 1.2blks

Is one year younger, slightly better rebounder, worse defender, much worse net rating, slightly better PIE, 3.7pts. 0.3rbs, -0.2stls, and -0.4blks worth $41.9m????

[ItsGoTime]

Do we really think that Ayton gives us more than Jarrett Allen?

Contract: Ayton $32.4m, 3yrs, $101.9m / Allen $20mill, 3yrs, $60m
Age:  Ayton 24 / Allen 25
Reb%: Ayton 16.4 / Allen 15.9
Def Rating: Ayton 113.2 / Allen 108.8
Net Rating: Ayton 0.0 / Allen 7.7
PIE: Ayton 14.5 / Allen 13.4
Production: Ayton 18.0pts, 10.0rbs, 0.6stls, 0.8blks / Allen 14.3pts, 9.8rbs, 0.8stl, 1.2blks

Is one year younger, slightly better rebounder, worse defender, much worse net rating, slightly better PIE, 3.7pts. 0.3rbs, -0.2stls, and -0.4blks worth $41.9m????

I think most people here agree that Allen is the better option. Many don’t believe he is available though. Ayton seems available and has rumors tying him to Dallas. That’s why this discussion has gone on so long.

[Jason Terry]

I think most people here agree that Allen is the better option. Many don’t believe he is available though. Ayton seems available and has rumors tying him to Dallas. That’s why this discussion has gone on so long.

This. Clevelands books aren’t in bad shape at the moment. Atlanta on the other hand is already over the first apron pre-offseason. It’s so bad with Atlanta that i think they need to dump a big deal now. AND probably a year from now. Murray should be the priority. So, they could dump Collins now and still feel like they need to dump Capela/Bogi at some point. Maybe even explore moving Trae. 

Who would you rather keep if you were an Atlanta fan? Capela or Collins?

[SleepingHero]

That's not the same trade, since the whole point was CP3 and dealing with his contract, and he isn't in it. (And while the salary now matches for ATL, it doesn't for DAL or for PHX.)

I left out CP3 but he was in the trade machine when I tried this 3-team deal last night. The trade machine says the deal works financially for all 3 teams, but it's using 2023-24 numbers and CP3 can't be waived for nothing after July 1st. So that throws a massive wrench in the deal. 

I think the framework is there for these 3 teams, and it seems like a 4th just needs to be added to eat CP3's contract.

Could the Spurs be enticed to add a vet PG to teach Wemby? They have the necessary contracts to match and essentially can just eat CP3's contract. They're also one of the few teams I can see having an interest in CP3 and his contract structure for their goals.

Revised trade:
THJ+Collins to PHX
Hunter+Ayton to DAL
Reggie+Maxi+McDermott+10 to ATL
CP3+15 to SAS

Trade machine says this deal works now in June.

[Scott41theMavs]

I left out CP3 but he was in the trade machine when I tried this 3-team deal last night. The trade machine says the deal works financially for all 3 teams, but it's using 2023-24 numbers and CP3 can't be waived for nothing after July 1st. So that throws a massive wrench in the deal. 

I think the framework is there for these 3 teams, and it seems like a 4th just needs to be added to eat CP3's contract.

Could the Spurs be enticed to add a vet PG to teach Wemby? They have the necessary contracts to match and essentially can just eat CP3's contract. They're also one of the few teams I can see having an interest in CP3 and his contract structure for their goals.

Revised trade:
THJ+Collins to PHX
Hunter+Ayton to DAL
Reggie+Maxi+McDermott to ATL
CP3+15 to SAS

Trade machine says this deal works now in June.

So Dallas doesn't have to send out #10? I like that part of it.

I want no part of Ayton. Just when we have hopes of getting off of Bertans's contract, we take on another albatross who will end up relegated to the bench before all's said and done.

[SleepingHero]

So Dallas doesn't have to send out #10? I like that part of it.

I want no part of Ayton. Just when we have hopes of getting off of Bertans's contract, we take on another albatross who will end up relegated to the bench before all's said and done.

Whether or not DAL *having* to send out #10 is unknowable, but I lean towards that they do and ATL gets it for sending out 15 on top of a starting wing. So I'll edit my post now.  


My goal was trying to make the money work and make it try and make sense.

[Chicagojk]

I don’t necessarily like this trade from any of the teams perspective 

Hawks: CP3 and 10th pick

Mavs: Ayton and 15th pick

Suns: Collins, THJ, Bullock, Mcgee

Hawks buy out CP3. Get off Collins long term money. Move up from 15 to 10. Save about $5 million off 23-24 and get under the 1st apron. I think Collins is the guy they would like to move over Capella. They don’t get better next year though

Mavs get a big. Keep a pick. Save a few million off 23-24. But we add a potentially bad contract on a guy with a questionable motor and questionable playoff skills

Suns add depth. Get off the Ayton deal. Roughly break even on salaries. But who is their starting PG and C? And how do they aquire them? Still in an unfavorable cap situation

 I think this makes some sense.  When looking at Mavs trade, I always ask myself if it hurts a little.   Because you know that is how most trades are...especially Mavs trades.

So, I can see benefits for each team in this trade with also negatives why all three would pass.  But I think this is the type of package we would be looking at.

[Chicagojk]

Nets guys on the Athletic throwing some potential trades out there:

1) Sharpe or Simons plus the #3 pick for Mikal Bridges- Says Unlikely. My take...you are not getting Sharpe. I think he is going to be a star

2) Bagley for DFS

3) Nets get Josh Green and # 10
Mavs get Jarrett Allen
Cavs get O'neal and DFS
My take- I would pass on that for Dallas and I don't think Cavs get nearly as much as they should

4)Nets get Buddy Heild, TJ McConnell and Myles turner
Pacers get Patty Mills, Harris, Cam Thomas, pick 22 and pick 51---My take-- i don't think Pacers would be interested in this as they already have several picks this year.

5) Nets get Johns Collins
Hawks gets Joe Harris and Royce O'neal

[BigDirk41]

Nets guys on the Athletic throwing some potential trades out there:

1) Sharpe or Simons plus the #3 pick for Mikal Bridges-  Says Unlikely.  My take...you are not getting Sharpe.  I think he is going to be a star

2) Bagley for DFS

3) Nets get Josh Green and # 10
Mavs get Jarrett Allen
Cavs get O'neal and DFS 
My take-  I would pass on that for Dallas and I don't think Cavs get nearly as much as they should

4)Nets get Buddy Heild, TJ McConnell and Myles turner
Pacers get Patty Mills, Harris, Cam Thomas, pick 22 and pick 51---My take-- i don't think Pacers would be interested in this as they already have several picks this year.

5) Nets get Johns Collins
Hawks gets Joe Harris and Royce O'neal

2 days ago, I would have said absolutely not to sending Josh Green. After yesterday's report of a potential  4/70 contract, I'm all for this trade.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

So Dallas doesn't have to send out #10? I like that part of it.

I want no part of Ayton. Just when we have hopes of getting off of Bertans's contract, we take on another albatross who will end up relegated to the bench before all's said and done.

This.  A thousand times this.

And put Collins in the same category, although not as bad.  Anyone who wants Collins hasn't seen him play lately and seen that horrific finger that is simply not healing.

Why are we wanting everyone's overpriced trash while we are already weighed down with our own?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I think most people here agree that Allen is the better option. Many don’t believe he is available though. Ayton seems available and has rumors tying him to Dallas. That’s why this discussion has gone on so long.

Huhhh?  Anyone basketball analyst of any quality knows that the Allen/Mobley frontcourt can't compete for a championship in today's NBA.  Mobley is going nowhere.  Allen is out if they could get like value.  Do they have someone at #10 in the draft that they want?  Are they coveting Maxi?  Wood/Mobley frontcourt would be a beautiful combo.  Do they want to replace Lavert with Green?  Who is on another team who could be a fit?  Hunter in ATL?

Mark my words.  Allen is going to be traded.