Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[Jym]

I didn’t want the Kyrie trade to happen. Said so too many times already, I know.

Having said that, now that it has happened…if they don’t re-sign him, I predict the actual, in reality alternative consequence of that is going to be soooooo much less exciting than the kind of thing you’re all kicking around in here. In that scenario, what the Mavs will end up with will be something not one of us would be excited about if someone was able to predict it in exact detail ahead of time.

Yeah if we don't keep Kyrie I feel almost positive the "Luka is not happy" rumbles will be begin and they'll be real leaks from his agent

[JCB]

It doesnt matter if Luka is happy or not. As long as Mark Cuban is making player decisions, the Mavs will never sniff a championship again.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I can see a pretty realistic scenario in which Harden walks, and PHI trades Maxey+Harris to some team to carve out what's needed for Kyrie. 

Ice cold take IMO

I think they'd rather have Maxey than Kyrie and it's not particularly close.

Not to mention the Philly media/fans would eat Kyrie alive.

[StepBackJay]

I didn’t want the Kyrie trade to happen. Said so too many times already, I know.

Having said that, now that it has happened…if they don’t re-sign him, I predict the actual, in reality alternative consequence of that is going to be soooooo much less exciting than the kind of thing you’re all kicking around in here. In that scenario, what the Mavs will end up with will be something not one of us would be excited about if someone was able to predict it in exact detail ahead of time.

Ya exactly why its not going to happen. Mavs will pay him however much it takes even if they pay way over market rate

[F Gump]

I can see a pretty realistic scenario in which Harden walks

I know Jalen Brunson, I know Cuban the Tightwad (and Incompetent GM), I know Kyrie the Unpredictable, I know the "It only Takes One Offer" mantra.

But I don't see anything on the horizon that offers anything realistic about PHI or any other teams landing Kyrie.

With Brunson, we saw the threat 6 months in advance, and saw it grow. But here, we can't even agree who to fear, because the suitors are just not there. We have to invent them, and envision roster-destroying gymnastics, for them to even get into the mix.

No good teams have that extreme amount of cap room to sign Kyrie. And very few bad teams have it either. No one is signing him away.

Most importantly, Mavs want Kyrie (because Cuban has long coveted the 2nd star), AND Cuban knew the general price tag for re-signing him when he made the deal. So I think it's far more likely that Cuban pays too much (bidding against himself as always), than he loses Kyrie to another team, because I believe his sole roster-building "plan" since the title has always been "Get two stars, somehow, regardless of the price, then figure out how to build around them somehow." It's lacking in finesse, it leads to overpayments, and others are able to prey on his lack of savvy and his desperation, but it is what it is.

He didn't see Brunson as a star. So he had no desire to compete for JB financially and NY got him by default. OTOH, Kyrie is a star, there are no real threats, so it's different.

My 2c.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Interesting Jarrett Allen trade from a Cleveland site  (you'd have to change 2025 to 2027 and either unprotect it or protect if for only that draft and have it convert to something else if it doesn't convey):

Laying out a Jarrett Allen trade

The Dallas Mavericks are another team whose season did not end the way they wanted it to, so they are a logical team to be pursuing shake-up trades. In this trade idea, the Cavs trade Allen to the Mavericks and get back two contributors in addition to a first-round pick:

The idea for the Cavaliers is that they trade one start for two. The Cavs could start Reggie Bullock at small forward and Maxi Kleber at power forward, giving Cleveland a four-out look around Evan Mobley at center. It would increase their spacing and, given the defensive chops of both Bullock and Kleber, still give them a stout defensive frontcourt.

For the Mavericks, they trade two non-stars for a star at center, potentially giving them three if Kyrie Irving re-signs this summer. Jarrett Allen would give this team a defensive identity inside, something they need after jettisoning their best defenders recently, and on offense he can both serve as a pick-and-roll partner with Luka Doncic and Irving and clean the glass after their jumpshots.

Dallas probably jumps in and makes this deal, letting Christian Wood walk and re-signing Dwight Powell as a backup. The loss of Kleber would be painful, but they tend to go star-hunting.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2023/05/12/g...valiers/2/

[ItsGoTime]

Interesting Jarrett Allen trade from a Cleveland site  (you'd have to change 2025 to 2027 and either unprotect it or protect if for only that draft and have it convert to something else if it doesn't convey):

Laying out a Jarrett Allen trade

The Dallas Mavericks are another team whose season did not end the way they wanted it to, so they are a logical team to be pursuing shake-up trades. In this trade idea, the Cavs trade Allen to the Mavericks and get back two contributors in addition to a first-round pick:

The idea for the Cavaliers is that they trade one start for two. The Cavs could start Reggie Bullock at small forward and Maxi Kleber at power forward, giving Cleveland a four-out look around Evan Mobley at center. It would increase their spacing and, given the defensive chops of both Bullock and Kleber, still give them a stout defensive frontcourt.

For the Mavericks, they trade two non-stars for a star at center, potentially giving them three if Kyrie Irving re-signs this summer. Jarrett Allen would give this team a defensive identity inside, something they need after jettisoning their best defenders recently, and on offense he can both serve as a pick-and-roll partner with Luka Doncic and Irving and clean the glass after their jumpshots.

Dallas probably jumps in and makes this deal, letting Christian Wood walk and re-signing Dwight Powell as a backup. The loss of Kleber would be painful, but they tend to go star-hunting.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2023/05/12/g...valiers/2/

I’m all about that trade. We could draft Hendricks. Trade THJ for Brooks SnT. Stretch waive Bertans. MLE to Grant Williams and have:

Luka/Kyrie/Brooks/Williams/Allen
Hardy/Green/BAE/Hendricks/Powell

[Chicagojk]

Interesting Jarrett Allen trade from a Cleveland site  (you'd have to change 2025 to 2027 and either unprotect it or protect if for only that draft and have it convert to something else if it doesn't convey):

Laying out a Jarrett Allen trade

The Dallas Mavericks are another team whose season did not end the way they wanted it to, so they are a logical team to be pursuing shake-up trades. In this trade idea, the Cavs trade Allen to the Mavericks and get back two contributors in addition to a first-round pick:

The idea for the Cavaliers is that they trade one start for two. The Cavs could start Reggie Bullock at small forward and Maxi Kleber at power forward, giving Cleveland a four-out look around Evan Mobley at center. It would increase their spacing and, given the defensive chops of both Bullock and Kleber, still give them a stout defensive frontcourt.

For the Mavericks, they trade two non-stars for a star at center, potentially giving them three if Kyrie Irving re-signs this summer. Jarrett Allen would give this team a defensive identity inside, something they need after jettisoning their best defenders recently, and on offense he can both serve as a pick-and-roll partner with Luka Doncic and Irving and clean the glass after their jumpshots.

Dallas probably jumps in and makes this deal, letting Christian Wood walk and re-signing Dwight Powell as a backup. The loss of Kleber would be painful, but they tend to go star-hunting.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2023/05/12/g...valiers/2/

That really isn't a lot.   Trades right now are all over the map with fans.  You look at fan sites and typically the ones that get traction are the ones that are typically very one sided.

I look at Gordon in Denver, Bogdonovich in Detroit, Grant in Portland, Allen in Cleveland, White in Boston, etc.   These are the quality of players Dallas needs to find with a future draft pick, expiring salary and another small asset.   They can't panic and it may take time to become available.    But this is the threshold and if they trade that first round pick for someone lesser, it will be noted.    The trick is finding a player like this who the pick hoarding teams don't feel like want to give up mulitple picks and risk not having the package for the next star.   If that is the case, Dallas could have a compelling offer....maybe much more at the deadline.  

I would certainly be a yes for this trade for Allen.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I’m all about that trade. We could draft Hendricks. Trade THJ for Brooks SnT. Stretch waive Bertans. MLE to Grant Williams and have:

Luka/Kyrie/Brooks/Williams/Allen
Hardy/Green/BAE/Hendricks/Powell

I love Grant Williams and Jarrett Allen on this team.  I'm kinda luke-warm on Brooks.  I still say Tari Eason is the next OG.

1.  Trade THJ for G.Williams/Pritchard.
2.  Trade Wood/FRP for J.Allen.
3.  Resign Powell.
4.  Trade #10/SRP for Eason.

Luka, Pritchard
Kyrie, Hardy, Bullock
Green, Eason, Holliday
Williams, Maxi, Morris
Allen, Powell

[DanSchwartzgan]

That really isn't a lot.   Trades right now are all over the map with fans.  You look at fan sites and typically the ones that get traction are the ones that are typically very one sided.

I look at Gordon in Denver, Bogdonovich in Detroit, Grant in Portland, Allen in Cleveland, White in Boston, etc.   These are the quality of players Dallas needs to find with a future draft pick, expiring salary and another small asset.   They can't panic and it may take time to become available.    But this is the threshold and if they trade that first round pick for someone lesser, it will be noted.    The trick is finding a player like this who the pick hoarding teams don't feel like want to give up mulitple picks and risk not having the package for the next star.   If that is the case, Dallas could have a compelling offer....maybe much more at the deadline.  

I would certainly be a yes for this trade for Allen.

This seems realistic to me regarding Allen.  I’ve seen some other deals that don’t include any draft compensation that don’t seem realistic.  I would certainly seek to S&T Wood instead of sending Maxi.  Cleveland has plenty of room under the apron to do this to do a S&T.  Sending 2027 should buy enough good will to be able to replace Maxi with Wood.

If we imagine a world where Dallas is absolutely trying to ‘Go For It’, that world would include a trade of 2027 and probably a trade down from #10.  Note that there is no overlap in assets between the THJ/McGee/#10 for Collins/#15 deal in the other thread and the Reggie/2027/Maxi (or Wood) deal here for Allen.  If you want to keep your cost controlled guys (including #15) and use your assets for guys in their mid-20’s (other than Kyrie), then doing two trades like this is the way to go:

Bigs:     Allen/Collins/Maxi. (You can plan any two and probably keep Powell/Morris as depth)
Wings:  Green/Hardy/Pick. (Your Pick or your MLE needs to be a defender)
BH’s:    Luka/Kyrie.           (Need to come up with a depth piece here.  There are some Defender/Ball Handler types at #15)

[DanSchwartzgan]

I’m all about that trade. We could draft Hendricks. Trade THJ for Brooks SnT. Stretch waive Bertans. MLE to Grant Williams and have:

Luka/Kyrie/Brooks/Williams/Allen
Hardy/Green/BAE/Hendricks/Powell

One note…remember that all of this has to stay under $170mm since you are trying to do both a S&T and use the full MLE (it appears you do, but it is close).

I question the availability of Williams for $12mm.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

This seems realistic to me regarding Allen.  I’ve seen some other deals that don’t include any draft compensation that don’t seem realistic.  I would certainly seek to S&T Wood instead of sending Maxi.  Cleveland has plenty of room under the apron to do this to do a S&T.  Sending 2027 should buy enough good will to be able to replace Maxi with Wood.

If we imagine a world where Dallas is absolutely trying to ‘Go For It’, that world would include a trade of 2027 and probably a trade down from #10.  Note that there is no overlap in assets between the THJ/McGee/#10 for Collins/#15 deal in the other thread and the Reggie/2027/Maxi (or Wood) deal here for Allen.  If you want to keep your cost controlled guys (including #15) and use your assets for guys in their mid-20’s (other than Kyrie), then doing two trades like this is the way to go:

Bigs:     Allen/Collins/Maxi. (You can plan any two and probably keep Powell/Morris as depth)
Wings:  Green/Hardy/Pick. (Your Pick or your MLE needs to be a defender)
BH’s:    Luka/Kyrie.           (Need to come up with a depth piece here.  There are some Defender/Ball Handler types at #15)

We agree on Wood/FRP for Allen.  Wood would be ideal in Cleveland alongside Mobley.

What are your thoughts on THJ to Boston for G.Williams/Pritchard?

[DanSchwartzgan]

We agree on Wood/FRP for Allen.  Wood would be ideal in Cleveland alongside Mobley.

What are your thoughts on THJ to Boston for G.Williams/Pritchard?

I think you’d have better luck with a Maxi based deal given what Boston needs and has already.

Williams turned down a $15mm extension offer, so probably good to bear that in mind in setting up his outgoing salary.  All things being equal, I think Dallas would be better off avoiding S&T’s and the Full MLE if they can just trade their way to what they want.  It gives them more room to work with if they don’t have to even worry with the things that raise the Hard Cap issue or BYC or competing with other teams in an uncertain marketplace.

[mvossman]

This seems realistic to me regarding Allen.  I’ve seen some other deals that don’t include any draft compensation that don’t seem realistic.  I would certainly seek to S&T Wood instead of sending Maxi.  Cleveland has plenty of room under the apron to do this to do a S&T.  Sending 2027 should buy enough good will to be able to replace Maxi with Wood.

If we imagine a world where Dallas is absolutely trying to ‘Go For It’, that world would include a trade of 2027 and probably a trade down from #10.  Note that there is no overlap in assets between the THJ/McGee/#10 for Collins/#15 deal in the other thread and the Reggie/2027/Maxi (or Wood) deal here for Allen.  If you want to keep your cost controlled guys (including #15) and use your assets for guys in their mid-20’s (other than Kyrie), then doing two trades like this is the way to go:

Bigs:     Allen/Collins/Maxi. (You can plan any two and probably keep Powell/Morris as depth)
Wings:  Green/Hardy/Pick. (Your Pick or your MLE needs to be a defender)
BH’s:    Luka/Kyrie.           (Need to come up with a depth piece here.  There are some Defender/Ball Handler types at #15)

Would definitely push for Wood S&T vs Maxi.

If we land Allen, I am much less interested in Collins.  His value is reduced next to someone like Allen and there is risk with that finger.  With Allen we just need a quality starter big wing who can defend and shoot.

Its spilt milk, but if we simply held onto Brunson and made a trade like this instead of the Kyrie trade, we would probably be contending.

[ItsGoTime]

I question the availability of Williams for $12mm.

I do too, but it’s said so much in our community that I don’t question it anymore. If he goes for that amount, it’ll come down to pitch, cause I think a lot of teams are in for that much.

[Jakeospikez]

If they do decide to take on that Collins contract, imo it's critical to get a rim protecting stretch 5 to play with him. Without the right 5 to play with him I just wouldn't bother taking him. Also, he's probably negative value right now, so trade back (Nets or Utah?) and then trade back up to 15 might be possible with the right deal. Definitely not a good idea to spend 26 mil/year for a guy who is going to just stand in the corner waiting to shoot a 3 unless he is a DPOY candidate. I suppose MPJ is making way more, but he's closer to like the PF version of Curry heh. Collins+Capela is not a good fit. I don't think Collins+Allen would be that great either. Collins+Ayton maybe not bad? Collins + Maxi looks decent but I'd say only against bench units or certain matchups.

Turner and KP were the good fits I had in mind in the past. Turner is not someone I'd reliably expect to get though considering he's been in trade talks for the past decade. Vucevic might be an ok stopgap. Honestly, Bamba may not be that bad if there was another big either a draft pick or vet brought with him. He's cheap, his shot is already there and he has the tools, he still needs some more development on defense with bbiq and to not foul and he could set better screens I think are the weak spots atm. The bbiq thing is a risk but a new team + new scheme could be the change he needs. His PnR defense looked alright to me from the limited stuff I saw. Lost the job in Orlando to WCJ so that's why he's on the move but that's ok. WCJ is a good player. Plug the 5 spot with MLE level bigs with upside and hope to hit one one of them that need a little more development and/or a change of scenery. Bamba along with drafting Lively or Miller and see if any of them work out? Jaxson Hayes another MLE level big that has a chance of being what they could be looking for. Added bonus if Bamba or Lively become starter material, they have a matchup big that has the length to at least bother Wembenyama. Pretty early to worry about that but bigs usually take a long time to develop so best to get started early I say. Players like Bamba/Hayes have had a rookie contracts worth of development already and could possibly just need a little more to get them to be quality rotational players. Need to take some risks cause proven high profile players are usually expensive.

[BigDirk41]

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas...lockbuster

Would you guys do this trade? I think I would.

[ItsGoTime]

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas...lockbuster

Would you guys do this trade? I think I would.

Nope, would rather have Brooks and Grant Williams for the same contract value it will be to supposedly resign OG. We then still have all those other assets too.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas...lockbuster

Would you guys do this trade? I think I would.

Take out Green and I'm game.  If Kyrie stays, Green is pivotable in any starting lineup.

[BigDirk41]

Nope, would rather have Brooks and Grant Williams for the same contract value it will be to supposedly resign OG. We then still have all those other assets too.

What is the path to acquiring both of those players? We don't have cap space