Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I'm probably like Top 5 in this board in my support for CWood.
But even I do not want him back.
His time here is over, doesn't matter who's fault it is now.
All I want to know now is if there is any possibility of CWood signed-and-traded.
If the answer is NONE, then I hope everyone moves on and forget about the guy.

Edit: I want Kidd out of here too, not because of how he handled CWood, but mainly of how he coached (or didn't coached?), and his inane comments during the whole of last season. Kidd was a major issue last season, and would continue to be, even with an improved team.

No, it doesn't matter who's fault it is.  We all have our opinions.  It sounds like you agree Kidd eff'd it up.  Yes, I want Kidd far away from this franchise.  He's doing exactly what got him booted from BRK and MIL.  Cuban didn't do his homework and/or didn't give Kidd the needed performance indicators on how he'd be judged.  If Kidd was my employee, he'd be on a performance plan and managed with the hopes he could turn it around.  It does not sound like that has happened.

Until Wood signs elsewhere, he's still a possibility.  My only point is...  with what's left below the apron, who would be a better option than Wood?  It's like having high hopes for a prom date, but then when you're a week out you finally decide your cute friend wasn't such a bad choice after all.  Never let perfect be the enemy of good.

This situation reeks of the situation with Avery and Marquis.  Yes, he smoked his body weight in weed with Josh, but as he was utilized with Nelly, he had an important role on the team.  A role Avery just destroyed... for personal reasons.  Good coaches don't do that.  I just watched the ESPN special about Reggie, Billy, and Steinbrenner.  Billy could have gotten so much more out of that team if he only learned how to manage Reggie, well and stop boozing.

---

What everyone is saying is that (if you ask the Mavs, at least) an empty roster spot is a better alternative to Wood.

From your POV, how do reconcile the obvious lack of interest from any team to employ him?

An empty roster spot is better than a 20pts/10rbs/2blks starter?

That's a plus, meaning he's still available and could be had for cheap.  Other than that, what does it matter what other franchises think of him?

Do I only want to date women my buddies want to date?  I couldn't care less.

[SkenfromLMF]

Fact is that Wood was (and probably still currently) demanding more than the Mavs have available at the Apron.

That would insinuate they felt: Holmes, Curry, Lively, Prosper, & Williams were the answer to that question you keep asking.

The truth is that Kidd demands elite defensive effort from everyone not named Luka/Kyrie, and only a handful of coaches can operate with Wood the way he has demonstrated how he insists on playing (Nellie, Doug Moe, Mike D'Antoni, etc) .

Mavs to Wood's agent:

https://youtu.be/xsZPWsVNTqo

[MrGoat]

I'm probably like Top 5 in this board in my support for CWood.
But even I do not want him back.
His time here is over, doesn't matter who's fault it is now.
All I want to know now is if there is any possibility of CWood signed-and-traded.
If the answer is NONE, then I hope everyone moves on and forget about the guy.

Edit: I want Kidd out of here too, not because of how he handled CWood, but mainly of how he coached (or didn't coached?), and his inane comments during the whole of last season. Kidd was a major issue last season, and would continue to be, even with an improved team.

I'm team Wood over Kidd myself and think Kidd screwed Wood over. 

But that is exactly the reason not to bring Wood back. That would be a toxic situation. I highly doubt he has any interest in coming back anyway

What I don't get is how Utah beat us to the punch on that Paul Reed offer sheet. Could we not offer another offer sheet because of the Thybulle offer?

[ItsGoTime]

Wood signing here is a dead end talking point. I was also a supporter of him, but his time here is done.

Brooks might not live up to that contract. He should have gone to a team who is better equipped to deal with him. I don’t say that in a bad way though. In Mem, all those guys fed off eachother and especially off of Ja. Hou is following in the Wash footsteps a bit where there is already some reported lockerroom issues in the past. Maybe him having to stick up and be THE leader helps him, but it just as easily could sink him further. I wanted him here at $14-16M which I think is perfectly fine and I think our team could have helped him curb that intense competitiveness.

[IamDougieFresh]

As Christian Wood’s #1 fan here… It’s over.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/27...-Offseason




Read it and weep, Lol

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...6101212160




Bol Bol to Phoenix?

[DanSchwartzgan]

David Lord
@David_Lord_2020
·
1h
We won't know details of DAL-BOS-SA until that trade is completed and executed. Apparently any or all of the 3 teams are exploring ways to add to it (thus the delay) which means its final outcome of who gets what is still up in the air.

I wonder if Boston is lying in wait for the Miami/Portland negotiations to break down.  Maybe the extra $12.5mm spread with GWill outgoing is what facilitates Brown for Lillard.  It misses by about $1.3mm meaning Boston adds a minimum or asks Dallas to pay Williams just a bit more (and maybe we keep one of the 2nds to help them out?).  Dallas has room to do this and stay under the tax.


Unrelated:  Dalton Trigg posted a trade idea (I don’t think it is based on any sourcing, just an idea) that has THJ being swapped for Bojan B.  It gets Hardaway to Detroit and fulfills the Mav’s long held interest in Bogdanovic.  Dalton complicates this by adding McGee to the deal and has Dallas giving up three second rounders.  Of course, you have to have the seconds, which we don’t yet which might be why this hasn’t happened yet.

I kind of wonder if we’d be better off with Bojan coming off the bench.  Having someone like him handling distribution duties for the second unit would allow Luka and Kyrie to play together more as they wouldn’t be absolutely necessary to a second unit that had Bojan and Hardy

Holmes. Lively.  Powell
           
GWill.    Maxi    Prosper
           
Green.  Bojan.  Lawson

Luka.    Hardy.  Seth

Irving.              Exum

[Dundalis]

I wonder if Boston is lying in wait for the Miami/Portland negotiations to break down.  Maybe the extra $12.5mm spread with GWill outgoing is what facilitates Brown for Lillard.  It misses by about $1.3mm meaning Boston adds a minimum or asks Dallas to pay Williams just a bit more (and maybe we keep one of the 2nds to help them out?).  Dallas has room to do this and stay under the tax.


Unrelated:  Dalton Trigg posted a trade idea (I don’t think it is based on any sourcing, just an idea) that has THJ being swapped for Bojan B.  It gets Hardaway to Detroit and fulfills the Mav’s long held interest in Bogdanovic.  Dalton complicates this by adding McGee to the deal and has Dallas giving up three second rounders.  Of course, you have to have the seconds, which we don’t yet which might be why this hasn’t happened yet.

I kind of wonder if we’d be better off with Bojan coming off the bench.  Having someone like him handling distribution duties for the second unit would allow Luka and Kyrie to play together more as they wouldn’t be absolutely necessary to a second unit that had Bojan and Hardy

Holmes. Lively.  Powell
           
GWill.    Maxi    Prosper
           
Green.  Bojan.  Lawson

Luka.    Hardy.  Seth

Irving.              Exum

A big and/or defensive wing IMO should be the minimum we return in any trade/s from here on. Bojan simply doesn't move the needle enough over THJ IMO, plus he's older. If we make this move, plus another to acquire that big or another versatile defensive wing, then ok, but as the final trade of the offseason, I would not bother with this, certainly not giving up additional assets like the second rounders which could be valuable in a more pressing acquisitions.

[DanSchwartzgan]

A big and/or defensive wing IMO should be the minimum we return in any trade/s from here on. Bojan simply doesn't move the needle enough over THJ IMO, plus he's older. If we make this move, plus another to acquire that big or another versatile defensive wing, then ok, but as the final trade of the offseason, I would not bother with this, certainly not giving up additional assets like the second rounders which could be valuable in a more pressing acquisitions.

I’ll respectfully disagree.  This team would be under the LT (an important factor for future spending).  Yes, we need the things you mention (though I think OMax supplies the defensive wing part in pretty short order).  Yes, Bojan is older.  But he’s better and most importantly he’s on a very friendly contract.  Moving off of McGee and Hardaway’s guaranteed money would be big.

There is a here and now element to team building and there is an element that looks at the next few opportunities to make moves and tries to set us up well for those.  If you can get the better player AND set your payroll up better for future flexibility, that is a HUGE win.  Our second unit needs some playmaking and Bojan would provide that from a position other than the one Hardy plays.

Looked at another way, If I said before the summer that we got Lively, OMax, Holmes, Grant W. Bogdanovic, Seth and Exum for #10, THJ, Reggie, McGee and a 2030 pick swap.  Would you have signed up?  I’m celebrating what we have (or would have).  We will never arrive at a place where the roster feels done.

Edit: BTW, I think we all need to recalibrate our thinking toward the tax line vs. the first apron. I think FG called this one correctly. If there isn’t someone worth going over the LT, I doubt we will. Right now, I don’t see that player. Even if it was just THJ for Bojan, we’d be snuggled up just under the tax.

[KillerLeft]

I’ll respectfully disagree.  This team would be under the LT (an important factor for future spending).  Yes, we need the things you mention (though I think OMax supplies the defensive wing part in pretty short order).  Yes, Bojan is older.  But he’s better and most importantly he’s on a very friendly contract.  Moving off of McGee and Hardaway’s guaranteed money would be big.

There is a here and now element to team building and there is an element that looks at the next few opportunities to make moves and tries to set us up well for those.  If you can get the better player AND set your payroll up better for future flexibility, that is a HUGE win.  Our second unit needs some playmaking and Bojan would provide that from a position other than the one Hardy plays.

Looked at another way, If I said before the summer that we got Lively, OMax, Holmes, Grant W. Bogdanovic, Seth and Exum for #10, THJ, Reggie, McGee and a 2030 pick swap.  Would you have signed up?  I’m celebrating what we have (or would have).  We will never arrive at a place where the roster feels done.

The luxury tax angle is interesting, and Bojan would replace hardaway’s scoring. On the other hand, one of the more encouraging things for me is that the team seems to be drifting back towards valuing shooting/spacing. I don’t buy that Curry can totally replicate Hardaway’s impact on the geometry when he’s really got it going (even when he doesn’t).

It’s a better deal than I thought at glance though now that you’ve explained it like this.

[Dundalis]

I don't think there's any chance they trade him unless he demands a trade. Nico and Kidd wanted and like Kyrie. They all 3 get along. Kyrie is here to stay.

If a team puts in a good offer for him (I could see a team like the Clippers doing just that), I think he's out of here. The reason I was against any 4 or 5 year deal from the start, is because you need Kyrie Irving to be tradeable. Pretending like he's not an injury prone 31 year old with genuine and team distracting off court issues is sticking your head in the sand. This team has tanked it's average age, when simply didn't have to. They will hopefully continue to with the next trade they make. The Mavs could have very easily offloaded the assets they had this offseason for true win now pieces in their prime years, but did not. They risked their biggest tradeable asset primarily on youth. If they had real (any) interest in Kyrie's specific timeline, they would not have done this IMO.

They have now put the bulk of the team's core assets on the same timeline as Luka which has rarely been the case so far. That doesn't mean Kyrie is an auto trade, but what it clearly indicates is Kyrie is expendable. You want Kyrie here long term, you sign him to 4/5 years and go get win now pieces with your best assets, not invest in youth, and sign him to a shorter term contract that will become very tradeable within 6-12 months if Kyrie performs well.

I’ll respectfully disagree.  This team would be under the LT (an important factor for future spending).  Yes, we need the things you mention (though I think OMax supplies the defensive wing part in pretty short order).  Yes, Bojan is older.  But he’s better and most importantly he’s on a very friendly contract.  Moving off of McGee and Hardaway’s guaranteed money would be big.
There is a here and now element to team building and there is an element that looks at the next few opportunities to make moves and tries to set us up well for those.  If you can get the better player AND set your payroll up better for future flexibility, that is a HUGE win.  Our second unit needs some playmaking and Bojan would provide that from a position other than the one Hardy plays.
Looked at another way, If I said before the summer that we got Lively, OMax, Holmes, Grant W. Bogdanovic, Seth and Exum for #10, THJ, Reggie, McGee and a 2030 pick swap.  Would you have signed up?  I’m celebrating what we have (or would have).  We will never arrive at a place where the roster feels done.
Edit:  BTW, I think we all need to recalibrate our thinking toward the tax line vs. the first apron.  I think FG called this one correctly.  If there isn’t someone worth going over the LT, I doubt we will.  Right now, I don’t see that player.  Even if it was just THJ for Bojan, we’d be snuggled up just under the tax.

I wasn't really trying to say I would be against the trade in and of itself. I'm just saying we have needs, and obviously you dedicate your resources to investigating and facilitating the moves to meet those needs. On court needs should come first before financial needs in our position. This is a team improvement move, but it's a rather ancillary and minor team improvement move compared to acquiring a 5 or another versatile defensive 3/4. Obviously the financials probably give it more value but Im just looking from an on court perspective. So I don't know why they would be focusing their resources on facilitating this type of move unless there's literally nothing out there that can fit the more pressing team needs. But I'm not against the move in and of itself.

[KillerLeft]

If a team puts in a good offer for him (I could see a team like the Clippers doing just that), I think he's out of here. The reason I was against any 4 or 5 year deal from the start, is because you need Kyrie Irving to be tradeable. Pretending like he's not an injury prone 31 year old with genuine and team distracting off court issues is sticking your head in the sand. This team has tanked it's average age, when simply didn't have to. They will hopefully continue to with the next trade they make. The Mavs could have very easily offloaded the assets they had this offseason for true win now pieces in their prime years, but did not. They risked their biggest tradeable asset primarily on youth. If they had real (any) interest in Kyrie's specific timeline, they would not have done this IMO.

They have now put the bulk of the team's core assets on the same timeline as Luka which has rarely been the case so far. That doesn't mean Kyrie is an auto trade, but what it clearly indicates is Kyrie is expendable. You want Kyrie here long term, you sign him to 4/5 years and go get win now pieces with your best assets, not invest in youth, and sign him to a shorter term contract that will become very tradeable within 6-12 months if Kyrie performs well.

Totally agree.

And acknowledging this isn’t the same as suggesting the Mavs didn’t want Kyrie here or don’t think the team can work, short term. They have artfully set themselves up to have options and flexibility moving forward, imho. We’re all sick of that “flexibility” word, but in this case it seems smart in a real way.

[DanSchwartzgan]

One of the interesting parts of this is it might explain why it hasn’t happened yet. If Detroit would take seconds for THJ, we don’t have them yet.  Also explains why no real urgency (seemingly) on Nico’s part to get something done.

[Chicagojk]

I think any trade proposed for Detroit you need to consider how it makes Detroit better now. From what I understand, they do not have a playoff of get lost mandate to the front office. But they do have pressure to be a lot better this year. So I don't see Hardaway as a better fit. Especially as they have Burks who is sort of comparable toTim.

I don't even think a 27 first moves the needle at this point. As that front office may not be there in the next year or so. I think Bojan could be an option at the trade deadline or next offseason though.

[Mavs2021]

I think any trade proposed for Detroit you need to consider how it makes Detroit better now.  From what I understand, they do not have a playoff of get lost mandate to the front office. But they do have pressure to be a lot better this year.  So I don't see Hardaway as a better fit.  Especially as they have Burks who is sort of comparable toTim. 

I don't even think a 27 first moves the needle at this point.  As that front office may not be there in the next year or so.    I think Bojan could be an option at the trade deadline or next offseason though.

Should also consider how it makes us better (now). 

I´m with the camp of people that think they re-signed Kyrie with the plan in mind to trade him for Ayton (Luka buddy), Lavine  (Luka friendly and Duffy client) or some other younger high end player within the next 6-18 months. Will Kyrie be happy, if we stink (i.e. play-in qualificaton struggle) or demand a trade quickly.

Therefore I`m not sure a trade of THJ + assets for Bojan makes much sense at the moment, unless one of the many young assets from Detroit comes our way. I´d rather keep THJ and send McGee + two 2nds to OKC/Indiana for Pokusevki or Jalen Smith.

[Winter]

I feel certain they re-signed Kyrie because they want to see how a second stud can play with Luca-Mavs. The front office has whiffed on getting a true second star for the last 4 years, so this is their opportunity to see if it works.

I don't think there's any trickery here. It is exactly what they said they wanted for years.

[F Gump]

Edit:  BTW, I think we all need to recalibrate our thinking toward the tax line vs. the first apron.  I think FG called this one correctly.  If there isn’t someone worth going over the LT, I doubt we will.  Right now, I don’t see that player.  Even if it was just THJ for Bojan, we’d be snuggled up just under the tax.

Thanks. And BTW, there may be almost $2M more in room now under the tax line than we thought. When the deal was signed, Kyrie's total salary came to 120M, not 126M (the other 6M is incentives), over the 3 years. 

At this point I show the Mavs may be tracking towards about 160.5M, almost 5M below the tax line. And that assumes they pay McGee his entire salary rather than erase it or minimize it somehow.

As you note, they aren't going to spend MLE money or that space under the tax line just to spend it, and you make a good point that we aren't seeing a target that would justify the added expense. One angle could be an attempt to take in some player being moved in a Harden or Lillard trade, but without that, it feels like a wait for nothing again (as happened last year). I remember the stupid "Trade for a Big Wing coming in August" thread that I objected to because it felt like a myth but the mod wouldn't change because he had decided it was certain to happen, which proved to be pure nonsense of course.

In fact, if they end up without any use for some tax-free payroll, it's possible they could do some contracts decreasing -- while Kyrie's is done, and Curry/Exum are probably not changeable due to exception limits, they still haven't done GW or Powell.

[Mavs2021]

Thanks. And BTW, there may be almost $2M more in room now under the tax line than we thought. When the deal was signed, Kyrie's total salary came to 120M, not 126M (the other 6M is incentives), over the 3 years. 

How high can you go with these incentives, if they don´t count against the cap?

Luka´s new contract

1M per year and 50M in incentives per season, if GP > 0.

[Jym]

I feel certain they re-signed Kyrie because they want to see how a second stud can play with Luca-Mavs. The front office has whiffed on getting a true second star for the last 4 years, so this is their opportunity to see if it works.

I don't think there's any trickery here. It is exactly what they said they wanted for years.

Yeah I don't think there's any want or desire to get away from Kyrie
Their positioning is more about making the escape easier if Kyrie has another Kyrie Moment