Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[Mavs2021]

Starters

Luka
Kyrie
Jalen McDaniels (MLE)
Hendricks (#10)
Turner (2027 1st + Bertans)

Bench

Hardy
Green
Bullock
THJ
Maxi
Dwight (VET MINIMUM)
JaVale
Lawson
Wright
1 more spot + 2 two ways

Yeah that is a somewhat of a best case we can realistic hope for in terms of quality and knowledge of our MBT, but even that is making one very positive assumption: the Turner trade. The suggested trade is basically only feasible, if the extension of Turner came with a very defined extend&trade framework between him and the Pacers. Something like "if we receive one 1st pick unprotected and an expiring contract, we' ll trade you to a team of your choice".

[HAguiar95]

One trade I feel would solve most of our problems is:

Turner/McConnell/Smith for #10/Bertans/Bullock/McGee

Doncic/McConnell
Irving/Hardy
Green/Hardaway
Smith/Kleber
Turner/Powell

[ItsGoTime]

These 1 frp for Turner trades kinda baffle me when they were asking for 2 when he was expiring. I understand it’s a #10 pick, but now that he’s a multi year contract they have got to be asking for more, right? If in fact they are actually looking to trade him, which I don’t think is likely.

Gafford seems like the best, most available option out there to me.

[Mavs2021]

These 1 frp for Turner trades kinda baffle me when they were asking for 2 when he was expiring. I understand it’s a #10 pick, but now that he’s a multi year contract they have got to be asking for more, right? If in fact they are actually looking to trade him, which I don’t think is likely.

Gafford seems like the best, most available option out there to me.

Did they get the two 1sts? There is at least a world, where this handshake agreement between the Pacers and Turner exists, because it was mutually benefitial. Pacers have to hit the salary floor this season and instead of losing Turner for nothing in the summer they extend him on a tradeable contract to extract some value. Turner gets additional secure money and a trade promise. There is a chance this happened, but that does not mean, that we´d be Turner´s preferred trade destination.

I like Gafford. I already liked him, when the Bulls gave him away for nothing. Was another of those "nothing"-moves people here always say don´t matter.

Just like to point out that tonight.

Capela 12/8/0, two stls, minus 8
Claxton 5/10/0, three blsk, minus 20
Reed 11/4/0, two stls, plus 5

Now by no means am I saying that Reed is as good as Claxton or Capela, who started the games, but from a pure asset management/roster construction standpoint, it´s simply not worth to lose first round picks for the salary and production difference between Capela/Claxton and Reed. Claxton would cost at least two 1st round picks and Capela is an expiring contract in six months.

[ItsGoTime]

Did they get the two 1sts? There is at least a world, where this handshake agreement between the Pacers and Turner exists, because it was mutually benefitial. Pacers have to hit the salary floor this season and instead of losing Turner for nothing in the summer they extend him on a tradeable contract to extract some value. Turner gets additional secure money and a trade promise. There is a chance this happened, but that does not mean, that we´d be Turner´s preferred trade destination.

I like Gafford. I already liked him, when the Bulls gave him away for nothing. Was another of those "nothing"-moves people here always say don´t matter.

Just like to point out that tonight.

Capela 12/8/0, two stls, minus 8
Claxton 5/10/0, three blsk, minus 20
Reed 11/4/0, two stls, plus 5

Now by no means am I saying that Reed is as good as Claxton or Capela, who started the games, but from a pure asset management/roster construction standpoint, it´s simply not worth to lose first round picks for the salary and production difference between Capela/Claxton and Reed. Claxton would cost at least two 1st round picks and Capela is an expiring contract in six months.

No idea, maybe they did and didn’t like the returning players. Either way, like Ujiri, they are sitting on their value, not dropping it, and with a multi-year contract, first, there’s little reason for them to actually trade him. Second, they should be asking for more value, not less.

Would not have a problem with a Gafford and Reed offseason. I will say, I think Reed is more offensive than defensive kinda like a better McGee, while still young (more upside), but I think his body type at a MLE type contract would work well on this team. Then there is the added benefit that we finally have a very different big group to work with. Add in Hendricks to start at PF and this team could be promising.

Kyrie/Green/Luka/Hendricks/Gafford
Hardy/THJ/Bullock/Maxi/Reed

That’s all assuming we could get Gafford and Reed while not losing anything significant on the team.

Edit: Also, I really dislike that about those who do that around here (bolded). There have been so many gems lost for the sole purpose of chasing stars it is ridiculous. How much better off would we be if we had Gafford and Markannen on this team right now?

[loki]

I think Turner could be had for #10. Two years left on his contract is the perfect time to deal him. If the Pacers wait until the trade deadline or until he's an expiring the offers will drop off significantly.

Should Dallas pay that much? I wouldn't hate the move, but Turner doesn't solve their rebounding problems. I think the Mavs are better off spending their best asset on a wing, whether in a trade or taking someone in the draft, and looking for a more affordable center.

I'd prefer something like Bullock + 27 1st for Gafford. Not sure that Washington would go for that deal directly so you might need to find a 3rd team or hope they have interest in a Wood S&T.

I don't see Reed going anywhere. He's restricted and the Mavs don't have the ability to outbid the Sixers.

[Mavs2021]

No idea, maybe they did and didn’t like the returning players. Either way, like Ujiri, they are sitting on their value, not dropping it, and with a multi-year contract, first, there’s little reason for them to actually trade him. Second, they should be asking for more value, not less.

I agree 100% with you, if this was an "honest" extension. That means Turner is happy to stay in Indiana and he won´t be traded under the previous Pacers evaluation of two first round picks.

There is also the possibility that Turner wants to leave. Indiana tried to trade Turner at the deadline and did not find a deal to satisfy all parties.

As a result the Pacers/Turner entered this virtual "sign&trade" agreement that is highly benefitial for Turner, the Pacers and the team trading for Turner.

It´s a win-win-win situation.

Turner agrees to a two year extension worth 29M/year. There is no way he could have gotten such a good deal in free agency. In exchange Pacers do not lose an asset for nothing in the summer, but instead enter some pre-defined trade conditions agreement with Turner. Meanwhile the new team gets Turner on a very reasonable remaining contract.

[ItsGoTime]

I agree 100% with you, if this was an "honest" extension. That means Turner is happy to stay in Indiana and he won´t be traded under the previous Pacers evaluation of two first round picks.

There is also the possibility that Turner wants to leave. Indiana tried to trade Turner at the deadline and did not find a deal to satisfy all parties.

As a result the Pacers/Turner entered this virtual "sign&trade" agreement that is highly benefitial for Turner, the Pacers and the team trading for Turner.

It´s a win-win-win situation.

Turner agrees to a two year extension worth 29M/year. There is no way he could have gotten such a good deal in free agency. In exchange Pacers do not lose an asset for nothing in the summer, but instead enter some pre-defined trade conditions agreement with Turner. Meanwhile the new team gets Turner on a very reasonable remaining contract.

I’ve followed this line of thinking from its inception. I don’t see how it’s a win for the Pacers if they aren’t getting their asking price. 

Maybe it was a deal to make him happy to stay and keep Ind’s payroll low so as to be able to use the money to go shopping? We have no clue, but ever since there have been nonstop trades proposed as if your scenario is true. 

Turner and Haliburton look legit together, and Turner has the increased role he was asking for. Just so little evidence to say one way or another.

[Mavs2021]

I’ve followed this line of thinking from its inception. I don’t see how it’s a win for the Pacers if they aren’t getting their asking price. 

Maybe it was a deal to make him happy to stay and keep Ind’s payroll low so as to be able to use the money to go shopping? We have no clue, but ever since there have been nonstop trades proposed as if your scenario is true. 

Turner and Haliburton look legit together, and Turner has the increased role he was asking for. Just so little evidence to say one way or another.

Cause the Pacers have no asking price as long as Turner does not sign that extension. Turner is a FA and can leave for NOTHING. Pacers used the unique situation of being so far under the salary floor that they could basically pay Turner a "signing" bonus.

We don´t know the underlying conditions of the extension. Obviously the Pacers and Turner will not come out and admit they have this pre-arranged trade agreement, which is at best a grey area in the CBA or highly illegal. Only the Mavs would be that stupid.

One argument to be made for such an virtual S&T agreement is that Turner got a $17M bonus, that otherwise would have been equally distributed between the whole roster. So basically Turner "stole" $1.1M from every player on the roster with his extension. At least a little awkward situation going into next season, unless you are not there anymore.

I agree with you that only under these circumstances, you get him for a 1st + Bertans. 

Overall trade proposal are always driven by fan bias. Nothing to see there.

[LukaMVP]

turner ain't the defensive anchor we need and he would be too expensive. turner has a lot to contribute in offense but D and rebounding are the two things we desperately want from our bigman, while at the offensive end we'll be fine assuming kyrie stays. gafford seems like a good target and his price is reasonable. our #10 should be used to draft someone like jarace walker who can make instant impacts, dude is even more ready for NBA than wemby imho. guys like henderson and the thompsons may have higher ceilings than walker but walker is the one that can help us now, an upgraded DFS at the very least.

[Knutsen]

turner ain't the defensive anchor we need and he would be too expensive. turner has a lot to contribute in offense but D and rebounding are the two things we desperately want from our bigman, while at the offensive end we'll be fine assuming kyrie stays. gafford seems like a good target and his price is reasonable. our #10 should be used to draft someone like jarace walker who can make instant impacts, dude is even more ready for NBA than wemby imho. guys like henderson and the thompsons may have higher ceilings than walker but walker is the one that can help us now, an upgraded DFS at the very least.

The obvious all-in move would be going after Draymond Green. I don‘t know what it would take to get him, but if the Warriors were to lose against the Kings they could decide to mix it up for next season. Or Green might pull out of his last year to chase a longer deal somewhere else. Then it depends if we wants to win titles or millions.

[dirkfansince1998]

turner ain't the defensive anchor we need and he would be too expensive. turner has a lot to contribute in offense but D and rebounding are the two things we desperately want from our bigman, while at the offensive end we'll be fine assuming kyrie stays. gafford seems like a good target and his price is reasonable. our #10 should be used to draft someone like jarace walker who can make instant impacts, dude is even more ready for NBA than wemby imho. guys like henderson and the thompsons may have higher ceilings than walker but walker is the one that can help us now, an upgraded DFS at the very least.

If Turner isn´t a defensive anchor I really don´t know if the player you are looking for even exists. He has been top 5 in blks and DFG% in the paint every single season since 2018. Rebounding doesn´t look as great but that´s more of a Maxi-like problem where he tries to challenge shots and takes himself out rebounding position.
Two top 10 finishes in the DPOY voting. Would have been more if it wasn´t for constant injury issues and missed games.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I'd agree that FVV shouldn't be the lead guard, but without him they have nothing to fall back on. That would be fine except they owe their next pick to the Spurs. I think GTJ gets overpaid by some young team with cap space. To me he looks more like a 6th man rather than a starter. I wouldn't want to be the one giving him a THJ-like deal. FVV at least plays on both ends and could have value to a ton of contenders a year or two down the road.

Who the hell is GTJ?

[IamDougieFresh]

Who the hell is GTJ?

Garry Trent Jr.

[DallasMaverick]

If Turner isn´t a defensive anchor I really don´t know if the player you are looking for even exists. He has been top 5 in blks and DFG% in the paint every single season since 2018. Rebounding doesn´t look as great but that´s more of a Maxi-like problem where he tries to challenge shots and takes himself out rebounding position.
Two top 10 finishes in the DPOY voting. Would have been more if it wasn´t for constant injury issues and missed games.

Right.

You could think of Turner as a "Rudy Gobert Lite".  Just for 2/3 of the price.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Garry Trent Jr.

Ok, thanks. His shooting has fallen off big time though. It's why he was coming off the bench instead of starting. He'd have to show me he can regain that stroke back before he gets a big deal. That's just me.

[dirkfansince1998]

Ok, thanks. His shooting has fallen off big time though. It's why he was coming off the bench instead of starting. He'd have to show me he can regain that stroke back before he gets a big deal. That's just me.

Raptors version of THJ. Considering how the majority of people feels about THJ he is not the kind of player the Mavs should target.

[dirkfansince1998]

Mavs should take a look around the league and figure out why all teams have at least one bigmen development project on the bench. Ask themself why they aren´t doing the same. Pick up someone like Udoka Azubuike or look for cheap trades for guys like Charles Bassey (drafted with the pick that the Mavs send to Philly in exchange for Redick and Melli).

In a best case scenario find a guy that isn´t getting any minutes on a rebuilding team but has already shown that he belongs in the rotation of an NBA team. Someone like Isiah Stewart or Kai Jones.

[Nowitzki Way]

Mavs should take a look around the league and figure out why all teams have at least one bigmen development project on the bench. Ask themself why they aren´t doing the same. Pick up someone like Udoka Azubuike or look for cheap trades for guys like Charles Bassey (drafted with the pick that the Mavs send to Philly in exchange for Redick and Melli).

In a best case scenario find a guy that isn´t getting any minutes on a rebuilding team but has already shown that he belongs in the rotation of an NBA team. Someone like Isiah Stewart or Kai Jones.

The Mavs have been terrible at this, and maybe for a long long time. They never seem to have big men prospects. My fandom starts in the early 90s with the 3 J's and i'm not sure i can remember any young big men that we tried to develop. 

Of course we have Dirk. But what else have we tried in the last 30+ years? Popeye Jones? Sean Rooks? Samaki Walker? Etan Thomas? Bernard James? The list is short and its bad.

[dirkfansince1998]

The Mavs have been terrible at this, and maybe for a long long time. They never seem to have big men prospects. My fandom starts in the early 90s with the 3 J's and i'm not sure i can remember any young big men that we tried to develop. 

Of course we have Dirk. But what else have we tried in the last 30+ years? Popeye Jones? Sean Rooks? Samaki Walker? Etan Thomas? Bernard James? The list is short and its bad.

Powell.

But I am still convinced that they only did it to sell a positive narrative after the Rondo disaster.