FA: Kemba Walker to DAL | his knee is "not good"

[F Gump]

I understand what you're saying but we're also in the same position as the Dirk years in the sense that we have a transcendent talent on the team that makes it absolutely impossible to tank.

So we would think -- but 9-10, and hopelessly in 11th place without even trying to lose, is screaming loudly that some rethinking of what is possible (and practical) might be in order.

[SleepingHero]

Listen can Kemba come in and give 10 points with some ball creation? If so then this is a good signing with the potential for diamond in the rough status given how much we'll be relying on him. He could theoretically help us bench THJ as well.

BUT this is wishful thinking. His knees are shot and he can't defend. If Kidd is consistent with his logic that means Kemba won't play a lick.

[SleepingHero]

Also some hints that something isn’t quite right inside the locker room (which meets the eye test for me).

I said this after the end of the MIL game. This team has some deep seeded issues. I don't know what but I'd start with THJ/Bullock/Wood/McGee as the guys with needed attitude adjustments just from my birds-eye view.

[IamDougieFresh]

Listen can Kemba come in and give 10 points with some ball creation? If so then this is a good signing with the potential for diamond in the rough status given how much we'll be relying on him. He could theoretically help us bench THJ as well.

BUT this is wishful thinking. His knees are shot and he can't defend. If Kidd is consistent with his logic that means Kemba won't play a lick.

We already know he isn’t consistent with his logic my brother in Christ.

[Dahlsim]

It’s not about age as much as if these guys the Mavs bring back even have anything left.  Anyway we didn’t give up anything for Kemba. Might as well take a chance and see if it works as a stop gap. The danger is similar to Dirk’s last years and always trying for a decent stop gap that you are neither a legit contender nor a bottom feeder with a high draft pick.  I would rather just embrace the tank this year.

In theory, I'd sign on for that. 

• https://www.tankathon.com 
  

In reality, Luka is too good and the Kemba move is a very good one. 
THJ being a shooter that is eating up shot attempts with bricks is enough to sink the team with the parity in the league right now.  

If Kemba has any knees left, he can only improve the team just by taking THJ minutes until and if he finds out where the bottom of the net is again. 

[cow]

Listen can Kemba come in and give 10 points with some ball creation? If so then this is a good signing with the potential for diamond in the rough status given how much we'll be relying on him. He could theoretically help us bench THJ as well.

BUT this is wishful thinking. His knees are shot and he can't defend. If Kidd is consistent with his logic that means Kemba won't play a lick.

What keeps THJ's trade value higher?  Benching him or continuing to play him?

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

What keeps THJ's trade value higher?  Benching him or continuing to play him?

Reverse the roles of Green and THJ.
THJ gets to stand in the corner waiting for the pass, Green patrols the wing.
THJ should be treated minutes-wise like a 2nd year Josh Green. He gets extended burn if he's hot, otherwise you keep him under minutes restriction.

[ItsGoTime]

It’s funny how the Heat signed Duncan Robinson to that big contract and sat him when he didn’t play well. Apparently we can’t sit Tim because we don’t want that much salary sitting around. Tale of two teams.

[dirkfansince1998]

It’s funny how the Heat signed Duncan Robinson to that big contract and sat him when he didn’t play well. Apparently we can’t sit Tim because we don’t want that much salary sitting around. Tale of two teams.

I think he is out with an ankle injury. Maybe they are faking stuff but prior to the injury announcement he played 18mpg.

Just as a thought. Would anyone trade THJ for Robinson if the Heat add two 2nds to compensate the Mavs for the extra year?

[cow]

I think he is out with an ankle injury. Maybe they are faking stuff but prior to the injury announcement he played 18mpg.

Just as a thought. Would anyone trade THJ for Robinson if the Heat add two 2nds to compensate the Mavs for the extra year?

Hell no.

---

It’s funny how the Heat signed Duncan Robinson to that big contract and sat him when he didn’t play well. Apparently we can’t sit Tim because we don’t want that much salary sitting around. Tale of two teams.

We do have that much salary sitting around in Bertans.  We are just the only team dumb enough to carry two overpaid three point specialists.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Just as a thought. Would anyone trade THJ for Robinson if the Heat add two 2nds to compensate the Mavs for the extra year?

No, but I'd consider this:
THJ+Bullock+McGee for Robinson+Dedmon (no picks sent by Miami).

[dirkfansince1998]

No, but I'd consider this:
THJ+Bullock+McGee for Robinson+Dedmon (no picks sent by Miami).

Mavs have to find a way to generate assets. And with negative trade value the only option to get anything in return is to take back something worse. Idea was to turn THJ into an even worse contract that gives them enough picks to get out of another bad contract. Or something completly crazy like using picks in the draft to find an rotation piece that can replace guys like Bullock or McGee.

[SleepingHero]

What keeps THJ's trade value higher?  Benching him or continuing to play him?

How much can THJ theoretically raise his value from rock bottom? And is it even worth the investment in minutes? A sunk cost is a sunk cost. I'm of the mindset if this team wants to win it can't be done while THJ is on the court.

[cow]

How much can THJ theoretically raise his value from rock bottom? And is it even worth the investment in minutes? A sunk cost is a sunk cost. I'm of the mindset if this team wants to win it can't be done while THJ is on the court.

40+ million in sunk costs.  Two of those contracts were happily signed by the Mavs.  You bench those guys and it's probably a better product on the court but how much damage do you do with future negotiations when you already have one hell of a time getting free agents to come here in the first place.  Both THJ and McGee are here for two more years after this one.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Mavs have to find a way to generate assets. And with negative trade value the only option to get anything in return is to take back something worse. Idea was to turn THJ into an even worse contract that gives them enough picks to get out of another bad contract. Or something completly crazy like using picks in the draft to find an rotation piece that can replace guys like Bullock or McGee.

I haven't seen much of Duncan Robinson, specially lately. Seems like he has fallen in Bullock/THJ territory as far as shooting goes. Has Robinson's D taken a dive too? Can't be worse than what THJ can bring on that end I assume.

RB's contract isn't bad, but he's only playing half a season of good basketball (and we really don't even know if the trend will hold, he can be bad all year through).
McGee contract isn't large, but I'd still call it bad. He is waste of cap space and roster space. Probably will play a lot better at some point, but still wouldn't be good enough until he falls to the category of "totally unusable" (if he isn't already).  There's a negative vibe I get from him too. On a blow-out game he tried to get his points no matter what, calling his number like a rookie wanting to get his first bucket. And there's this comment he had on Wood about "winning" when he is in no authority to say such things. For someone his age, McGee is immature. McGee is already a negative on court to me, and possibly a negative in the locker room as well (based on what's happening).

If there is hope that THJ and RB regains their touch, I don't see why there isn't any for Robinson. Dedmon, well.. I don't see Miami giving up Yurtseven, but if they would, he's the better get obviously. Even with the injury. As for Dedmon, his contract isn't bad for a third string C. He can shoot from 3 at the very least.

Correct me if I am wrong, Robinson will add an extra year of 16M for the Mavs but over-all the Mavs can save close to 17 to 18M in this trade (I didn't look up if there are no guaranteed years and just went baseline computation).

As for Miami, the obvious is erasing the Duncan contract and adding a player who still has reps going for him as a reliable shooter (THJ) who can get better on a different team (theirs). That goes the same for RB. If Bullock wasn't sucking right now, he'd be an upgrade over Robinson and I'd bet Miami would be more than willing to add 2 seconds (mid-to-low second rounders but still picks anyway). But RB's current play doesn't warrant it.

So essentially, both teams will be hoping for their acquired players to be better than their current play. THJ doesn't inspire me with hope. Robinson is unknown to me which makes me wonder aside from hope of how he'd fit on the Mavs. DFS still needs someone to back him up, Robinson can do that.

If I'm taking in Robinson's extra year, I'm going to dump McGee's 3 years. For the moment, I'd say Robinson = RB. So Mavs are basically just paying non-shooting RB for 4 years, instead of THJ+McGee for 3 years. Not really great, but Mavs save Cuban's money and opens up a roster space.

[SleepingHero]

40+ million in sunk costs.  Two of those contracts were happily signed by the Mavs.  You bench those guys and it's probably a better product on the court but how much damage do you do with future negotiations when you already have one hell of a time getting free agents to come here in the first place.  Both THJ and McGee are here for two more years after this one.

Just speaking to how benching THJ/McGee would affect future free agents:

These guys haven't performed. I don't see how this would affect future negotiations. If anything it'd only embolden vets to make their way to Dallas because they'd be rewarded handsomely should they only play 1 good season. 

Would we be complaining at all if THJ was hitting 40% on threes? I don't think so. The players are accountable to play well, that's why they get paid. I wouldn't venture to believe that other FA's are crossing Dallas off the list because they're benching 2 overpaid role players that had all their talent sucked out by the Monstars.

[cow]

Just speaking to how benching THJ/McGee would affect future free agents:

These guys haven't performed. I don't see how this would affect future negotiations. If anything it'd only embolden vets to make their way to Dallas because they'd be rewarded handsomely should they only play 1 good season. 

Would we be complaining at all if THJ was hitting 40% on threes? I don't think so. The players are accountable to play well, that's why they get paid. I wouldn't venture to believe that other FA's are crossing Dallas off the list because they're benching 2 overpaid role players that had all their talent sucked out by the Monstars.

You gave McGee a 3YR deal.  You played him a few games and put him on the shelf.  You gave THJ a 4YR deal, he gets injured the first year and you let him play a few games into his second year before putting him on the shelf.  

Players don't want to come here for a lot of reasons but the level of players we do sign would be foolish not to look at these situations, not to mention KP, Wright, Curry and Richardson and want to stay the hell away from the franchise.  There is no loyalty in Dallas and the MBT have proven over and over again they have no idea how to evaluate talent.

Players want to play.  That's how they earn their next contracts.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Maybe. 

At a minimum we know "the spokesman has spoken." Cuban loves being the face of the organization. And I don't ever see that changing. 

Two possibilities from my seat:

1) When Cuban says "we" he is simply speaking on behalf of the people he has empowered to make moves. He is simply being the spokesman and face of the Mavs and Nico/Kidd/Fin are behind this move.

2) Cuban is frustrated with the direction of things and the choices made this summer and is now starting to wield his power again. I do think this is very possible as I think Kemba was always a guy CUBAN wanted. 

My fear is that #2 is happening. Cato said Cuban empowered Nico/Kidd this summer and now Cuban is being given evidence that they are incompetent and maybe he can do the job better than they can. UGH. I sure hope it isn't #2.

UGH. Actually #1 isn't any better when I think about it because Nico/Kidd/Fin have not proved to be slightly competent so far.

Yeah, it's funny how things do and don't work out. They gave up on KP, and since he's been in Washington, he's finally healthy and playing like people expected him to play. He had a career-high 41 pts on an efficient 12-18 shooting and 6-10 from 3. He had 29 pts at halftime, as they routed Minnesota 142-127.  This is not to say he still would have worked out here if healthy, but that's something we'll never know now.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Maybe. 

At a minimum we know "the spokesman has spoken." Cuban loves being the face of the organization. And I don't ever see that changing. 

Two possibilities from my seat:

1) When Cuban says "we" he is simply speaking on behalf of the people he has empowered to make moves. He is simply being the spokesman and face of the Mavs and Nico/Kidd/Fin are behind this move.

2) Cuban is frustrated with the direction of things and the choices made this summer and is now starting to wield his power again. I do think this is very possible as I think Kemba was always a guy CUBAN wanted. 

My fear is that #2 is happening. Cato said Cuban empowered Nico/Kidd this summer and now Cuban is being given evidence that they are incompetent and maybe he can do the job better than they can. UGH. I sure hope it isn't #2.

UGH. Actually #1 isn't any better when I think about it because Nico/Kidd/Fin have not proved to be slightly competent so far.

It is #1.  It has always been #1 and nothing that occurred yesterday was any different than usual or indicated any change in SOP.

If you know anyone in the media in Dallas, you know Cuban is always the spokesman...especially on personnel things.  The exceptions are the league mandated things like post game or media day.  All the guys who are quoting 'team sources' just sent Cuban a text and he answered them.  It was true under Donnie and it is true now.

That's part of why you can't always trust everything 'team sources' say.  We know good and well that Cuban will tell a reporter to step away from the crack pipe when he knows the thing the reporter asked about is about to go down.  Everyone knows "we had him in the top 10 on our board" is a little white lie told to sell a product.

In this case there is no way they prioritized Facu over Kemba.  This change wouldn't have happened this quickly.  Pro scouting departments are not that inept.  But, what was Cuban supposed to say?  "Yeah, those assholes in Detroit wouldn't give him to us for free, so we signed a player we knew was inferior".  "Sorry Facu, you probably shouldn't have trusted us and should have taken the better money in Europe".

[omahen]

In this case there is no way they prioritized Facu over Kemba.

I am not sure about that. It seems they were actually looking for another cheerleader and perhaps Kemba same as Dragic also didn't want that. The reality showed they desperately need more on offense Facu couldn't deliver. So the most interesting thing for me is, where the minutes will come from.

They could wait just one more day before signing Facu, because it was very obvious Detroit will release Kemba. And if they wouldn't, Mavs could still sign Facu a day later.