GAME 8: TOR (5-4) @ DAL (5-3) | 111-110 win

[Jym]

Still curious what the plan was. There had to be a Powell deal that fell through and they felt McGee would be the best Powell replacement they could find
With tax the McGee signing is costing Cuban north of 20 mil this season

[KillerLeft]

Still curious what the plan was. There had to be a Powell deal that fell through and they felt McGee would be the best Powell replacement they could find
With tax the McGee signing is costing Cuban north of 20 mil this season

I bet the deadline goal will be to reduce payroll, at least in part.

[Kammrath]

Well, they need to do what you suggest, for sure, AND they need another creator.

YES.....but Kidd did not want Dragic and wanted Facu instead. I cannot believe how much of a pass Kidd is getting right now from fans. He was great last year, but this is not last year and he is really, really disappointing.

[Smitty]

I bet the deadline goal will be to reduce payroll, at least in part.

The ONLY goal for Cuban

[KillerLeft]

YES.....but Kidd did not want Dragic and wanted Facu instead.

Not great.

[donzingis38]

Mavs are going to need another creator at the deadline imo.  This offense will really cook when they start making shots.  Another guy who can break down the defense would fit like a glove.

With Luka and our shooters there is so much open space.

Lets trade for OG Anunoby. Imagine if we have him instead of Bullock.. I'd give up two first round picks for him. I really love his game.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Nice win!  Recall that most of us were nervous about this game as Toronto was on a tear.  Yet, once again, we managed to get up by 20 on a good team.  And, once again, we managed to give most of that lead away.

I thought about voting for McGee for the Dirkie.  His brief stint had good energy and he made some nice plays.  If he can do that consistently, his spot on the team isn’t a total waste.  Unless we eventually get to a point where Wood (and Maxi) are starting, I’d like Powell and McGee to be interchangeable depending on opponent.  Tonight was a step in that direction.

High minute man for the game was Dinwiddie at 38?  His confidence and role appear to be growing.  Dinwiddie’s and Green’s minutes continue to rise.  THJ got 20 and Maxi got 16.  

The team continues to view Wood as a PF (or continues to protect/limit his minutes as a solo-big).  We saw effective time when Wood was with both Powell and McGee.  That is encouraging as it means Wood doesn’t have to strictly be paired with Maxi to be effective.  His solo-big minutes were the bulk of his -6 +/-.

I knew the outcome of the game by the time I got to watch it.  It is tempting to say the 4th quarter letdown was the product of taking our foot off the gas or whatever cliche you want to employ.  But watching it, it just seemed we weren’t making shots.  We were 1 of 8 from three for the quarter, yet still hit .364 for the game on 12 of 33 shooting.  Thankfully Luka and SD got to the rim enough to hold on.  Another bad shooting night for Bullock.  That Green as a starter prediction may come true sooner that I anticipated.  We have got to get more from our “shooters”, yet we have had sizable leads in the 4th quarter of every game.

[KillerLeft]

We saw effective time when Wood was with both Powell and McGee.  That is encouraging as it means Wood doesn’t have to strictly be paired with Maxi to be effective.

Yeah, BOTH stretches were surprisingly effective. I still think Wood/McGee is a tough choice, but it did work pretty well last night. Maybe it can be effective sometimes? I think Wood/Powell is actually something that could work pretty consistently. 

Starting Powell over McGee made a HUGE difference.

[DallasMaverick]

This is one of the better Luka games. And that’s saying something.

---

I just dislike how some posters go out of their way to bash ex players, especially when the reasoning is a billionaires pocket book. I’m a game thread no less

I don't think Roddy B was that good.

[mvossman]

YES.....but Kidd did not want Dragic and wanted Facu instead. I cannot believe how much of a pass Kidd is getting right now from fans. He was great last year, but this is not last year and he is really, really disappointing.

I feel like you need to separate Kidd the GM and Kidd the coach.  Kidd the GM sucks.  I'm not impressed with Kidd the coach early this season either, but I think most of us felt that way early last season.  I'm going to wait it out a bit on Kidd the coach.  I feel like he earned that with last season's performance.  If he is still pulling this shit with Wood 30 games from now, I will probably feel different.

[mvossman]

Yeah, BOTH stretches were surprisingly effective. I still think Wood/McGee is a tough choice, but it did work pretty well last night. Maybe it can be effective sometimes? I think Wood/Powell is actually something that could work pretty consistently. 

Starting Powell over McGee made a HUGE difference.

Are you still dead set on trading him if we play him as a PF (or to avoid a semantic argument, always play him in two big lineups)?  I already know I like the Maxi/Wood minutes.  I'm really curious to see more Powell/Wood minutes.

[KillerLeft]

Are you still dead set on trading him if we play him as a PF (or to avoid a semantic argument, always play him in two big lineups)?

Oh, for sure. 

Do you think he's going to extend and be happy playing 20-25 minutes per? I don't. I think his fit here is as a top-6 type, and one around whom the offense is designed, to boot. That means 28-35 minutes, I think, even if coming off of the bench. 

So, let's imagine playing him that amount of time with another big. Possible? Maybe, but should they do it? To answer that (in my opinion) you have to ask yourself if Wood, defensively, is able to operate at the level of, idk, say...Mobley in Cleveland. HE'S a guy who can play next to a big against a myriad of modern basketball concepts. 

Since I don't in any way remotely view Wood as capable in the same ways Mobley is, physically, I don't believe that approach (Wood plus a big) will ever be effective enough to serve as the default lineup for an elite team. Period, point blank. 

If you play it out in your head, objectively, I think it's pretty easy to see that a bad defender can and will hurt you in the end, no matter what position he plays. The Mavs will always work around Luka, of course, and honestly, I don't think that's as bad as people make it out to be, but it's bad enough that you don't want to compound the problem with others if you can avoid it. 

There seems to be this sense around here that the 5 is somehow more difficult to play, defensively, than the 4. I think that's true for DFS, maybe, but for a guy like Wood, I'd say confidently that the exact opposite is glaringly obvious. He has plenty of size, so that's not an issue. At which position is he more likely to have a speed and agility advantage over his opponent? 

The moral of the story, for me, is that either:

A) Wood becomes a more disciplined defender through coaching and the opportunity to play on a good team whose games matter, an eventuality I find infinitely more likely if he's playing a position for which he's actually suited, or

B) Wood does not become a defender passable enough to exist on a contender, in which case moving him to a different position (where he is more likely to be athletically bested) doesn't really help matters all that much. 

If it's B, what even is the point? I say play him where he has a chance to be a championship piece any team in the league would want and if he can't do it you just find a way to move on.

[KillerLeft]

Let me say it all in a different, more efficient way:

Unless you have an athletic freak involved (like Mobley, for example), more than 50% of the lineups you'll face in today's NBA will dictate that you're really better off playing 1 big for long stretches of the game. I'd suggest that in the playoffs, this phenomenon gets even more glaring. 

If Wood can't be that one big he'll have to play much less during the most important stretches of the games that you really need and care about. That means he LITERALLY cannot be a player around whom you build your offensive system, and that you had better not pay him the kind of money we all know he wants. 

It's truly a problem. If @"DanSchwartzgan" is right about this, then Wood is a big, fat, dead end of a fit imo. Hell, maybe Kidd has already determined this and that's why he's not going out of his way to make things work.

[dirkfansince1998]

Unless you have an athletic freak involved (like Mobley, for example), more than 50% of the lineups you'll face in today's NBA will dictate that you're really better off playing 1 big for long stretches of the game. I'd suggest that in the playoffs, this phenomenon gets even more glaring. 

For the Mavs those lineups work because Kleber (and to a lesser degree Powell) can defend most matchups on the perimeter. Meaning that even though they are technically bigs they might as well be listed as oversized wings if they play next to another big.
Problem is that the wing skill set is limited to the defensive end. As we saw last night. When Kleber managed to step out of bounds three times when he tried to floor the ball. Missed two driving layups after he attacked the close out.
Not to even mention Powell who is disqualified from any non center minutes on offense because he cannot shoot. Making it even more difficult to find touches for Wood. Who ends up as the floor spacer.

Don´t have the time right now but it might be worth it to look at a correlation between Powell´s minutes and Wood´s usage. People complained about the low amount of FGA he had in the last couple of games. Could this be about the amount of minutes he plays next to traditional bigs?

[KillerLeft]

Don´t have the time right now but it might be worth it to look at a correlation between Powell´s minutes and Wood´s usage.

I'm almost positive we'd find correlation here. If Powell (or McGee) are in the game, they MUST be screening and probably finding ways to get into the paint. This takes Wood as anything other than a spot up spacer almost completely off the table. 

That's why some are so high on the Wood/Kleber fit, because standing in the corner (while Wood is more featured) is what WORKS for Kleber. That's appropriate.

[Kammrath]

This takes Wood as anything other than a spot up spacer almost completely off the table.

Wood needs to be the screen man. If that means he is the lone big, so be it. He NEEDS to be the screen man. Too much potency there to not use it.

[mvossman]

For the Mavs those lineups work because Kleber (and to a lesser degree Powell) can defend most matchups on the perimeter. Meaning that even though they are technically bigs they might as well be listed as oversized wings if they play next to another big.
Problem is that the wing skill set is limited to the defensive end. As we saw last night. When Kleber managed to step out of bounds three times when he tried to floor the ball. Missed two driving layups after he attacked the close out.
Not to even mention Powell who is disqualified from any non center minutes on offense because he cannot shoot. Making it even more difficult to find touches for Wood. Who ends up as the floor spacer.

Don´t have the time right now but it might be worth it to look at a correlation between Powell´s minutes and Wood´s usage. People complained about the low amount of FGA he had in the last couple of games. Could this be about the amount of minutes he plays next to traditional bigs?

He has hardly played any minutes with Powell (the most being last night) so there is not enough sample.  Can't imagine Maxi is having any impact on his shots.  My guess if there is any player on the floor impacting his shots it's Timmy chucking.  I think KL had it right that his number of shots is most impacted by how switch heavy the defense is.

[KillerLeft]

Wood needs to be the screen man. If that means he is the lone big, so be it. He NEEDS to be the screen man. Too much potency there to not use it.

ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY. I can't believe we can't all agree with this obvious truth. The Luka/Wood pick and roll is the single most lethal thing this team has had to offer since the JET/Dirk pick and roll was discovered, and frankly, it might be even BETTER, given time to develop a similar chemistry. 

It cannot work with a center standing in the paint or standing in the corner NOT drawing the respect of a defender. This is a FACT. 

Is there a chance Wood will prove to be so overmatched on defense that this approach can't work? I suppose so, but the Mavs owe it to Wood, Luka and themselves to find out!!!! If he can't do it, then he isn't going to work here, period.

[mvossman]

Let me say it all in a different, more efficient way:

Unless you have an athletic freak involved (like Mobley, for example), more than 50% of the lineups you'll face in today's NBA will dictate that you're really better off playing 1 big for long stretches of the game. I'd suggest that in the playoffs, this phenomenon gets even more glaring. 

If Wood can't be that one big he'll have to play much less during the most important stretches of the games that you really need and care about. That means he LITERALLY cannot be a player around whom you build your offensive system, and that you had better not pay him the kind of money we all know he wants. 

It's truly a problem. If @"DanSchwartzgan" is right about this, then Wood is a big, fat, dead end of a fit imo. Hell, maybe Kidd has already determined this and that's why he's not going out of his way to make things work.

As 1998 pointed out, Maxi and Powell can effectively be PF from a defensive quickness standpoint.  If Wood is an elite offensive player that generally needs one of those two guys on the court from a defensive standpoint, I think we are better off holding on to him rather than sending him out for likely pennies on the dollar (If we are trading him at the TDL I don't see his value being any better than what we sent out for him).

[Kammrath]

Is there a chance Wood will prove to be so overmatched on defense that this approach can't work? I suppose so, but the Mavs owe it to Wood, Luka and themselves to find out!!!! If he can't do it, then he isn't going to work here, period.

I have seen enough on D over the years to know for an almost certain fact that he is capable of playing decent enough defense to warrant him playing more than he is. It is like Luka, you don't sit him because he is a negative on D, his O more than makes up for it.