ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[JCB]

Wow, Cuban sucks SO BAD. Our one good draft pick except for Luka since he bought the team (Brunson) we totally botch up and don't resign. Now he is willing a piss poor NY team to a decent showing in the playoffs.

Cuban sucks. Sucks. Sucks.

He inherited Dirk and Nash, let Nash walk and did F all in all the years he has owned the team.

Cuban is just dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

[DallasMaverick]

Wow, Cuban sucks SO BAD. Our one good draft pick except for Luka since he bought the team (Brunson) we totally botch up and don't resign. Now he is willing a piss poor NY team to a decent showing in the playoffs.

Cuban sucks. Sucks. Sucks.

He inherited Dirk and Nash, let Nash walk and did F all in all the years he has owned the team.

Cuban is just dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Josh Green?

Hardy?

[Mavs2021]

So since we are less than 72 hours away. Let´s say we get Wembanyama. How do you approach the whole Kyrie situation?

Shouldn´t come as a surprise, I´d trade him. The team I´m calling is Orlando.

I´m offering Irving for Isaac (7.6M guaranteed), Harris (expiring), WCJ and #11. Draft Dick or Sensabaugh to add another elite shooter around Luka/Wembanyama. I´d go the Lakers direction and I can create max capspace in 2025 at the latest.

WCJ makes a ridiculous 13.5, which is now MLE money and provides an excellent load management option for Wembanyama during the regular season. Harris adds perimeter defense. We don´t need to argue about a healthy Isaac. It´s over for the rest of the league, otherwise eh waive him.

Bring back Wood as injury insurance for Isaac/Kleber.

Also probably should fire Kidd and get the best coach available, cause that depth team is ready to win it all next season.

[Mavsfan12]

Wow, Cuban sucks SO BAD. Our one good draft pick except for Luka since he bought the team (Brunson) we totally botch up and don't resign. Now he is willing a piss poor NY team to a decent showing in the playoffs.

Cuban sucks. Sucks. Sucks.

He inherited Dirk and Nash, let Nash walk and did F all in all the years he has owned the team.

Cuban is just dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

They've had some other good draft picks - even an allstar in JHo.  Clearly, this team's priority hasn't been on the draft, as they've probably traded more picks than theyve retained over the years.  Letting Nash/Brunson walk for nothing, and choosing not to defend the title in 2012 are definitive low marks in his ownership.

[omahen]

So since we are less than 72 hours away. Let´s say we get Wembanyama. How do you approach the whole Kyrie situation?

Shouldn´t come as a surprise, I´d trade him. The team I´m calling is Orlando.

Mavs are not in position to offer anything. Kyrie is a free agent...

[Mavs2021]

Mavs are not in position to offer anything. Kyrie is a free agent...

Yeah, yeah and if the Mavs don´t do what we wants he signs with all 30 teams for the minimum. He´ll be lucky to find one stupid team that wants him to pay his money outright or do it as a sign & trade. He´s an injury-prone nutjob in his 30s that hasn´t contributed to much winning over the last five years.

[Mapka]

Yeah, yeah and if the Mavs don´t do what we wants he signs with all 30 teams for the minimum. He´ll be lucky to find one stupid team that wants him to pay his money outright or do it as a sign & trade. He´s an injury-prone nutjob in his 30s that hasn´t contributed to much winning over the last five years.

And we made us dependent on him.

[omahen]

Yeah, yeah and if the Mavs don´t do what we wants he signs with all 30 teams for the minimum. He´ll be lucky to find one stupid team that wants him to pay his money outright or do it as a sign & trade. He´s an injury-prone nutjob in his 30s that hasn´t contributed to much winning over the last five years.

Of course. Irving is worth nothing, yet a team will pay their young starting center, #11 pick and some decent expiring salary as you made in your Orlando example. Contradicting a bit, don't you think? 

While you are still missing the point. It is Kyrie who decides where he wants to be. Not Mavs. And he already did find one team that wants to pay him. All he has to actually do is look around, if there are better options.

[Chicagojk]

spent a 20 minutes watching Kyrie, Hardy and Green highlights this year.  Some fun moments in a dreadful season.  If Kyrie is back, with Luka and Green (plus Hardy and maybe a draft pick who can create), having a bigger body who can finish (while also rebounding and defending) is important.  With the floor spread with creators, that player should be able to get 12-14 points per game off easy looks & free throws.


Watching the highlights, the Mavs really need to try to play at a faster pace.  Green and Hardy are much better in a quicker pace and Kyrie likes to play faster too.  If the Mavs keep and make a lottery pick, that player will play better fast too.   One thing you notice in most of the playoff games, is when a long rebound hits or a steal most teams make a sprint to the other hand and getting a basket at the rim.  Dallas doesn't do that much.    I really want to see this changed moving forward.

[Chicagojk]

Where would you put these three players in your wish for them being back next year: Bertans, Hardaway, Bullock?

Bertans- has negative value now. But with only 5 milliion guaranteed next year, he could be neutral at the trade deadline next year and may be a small asset next offseason.

Hardaway- Probably a neutral asset. There is a position crunch at his position. But I could envision a role for him if we draft and use the MLE on bigger players. You can never have enough shooters.

Bullock- Have no idea how he is valued as an asset. By role, he is probably the most valuable. But he was bad this year. Is this is who is is now? If he is combined with better defenders, will he play better? As an expiring, you could probably find a taker. Is it best to hold on to him and see how he starts the season? The issue is he typically doesn't make anything the first two months of the year.

I think at least one is gone next year. It may come down to who will give you a decent piece for any of them. But I could see all three being better assets at the trade deadline vs this summer.

[DanSchwartzgan]

spent a 20 minutes watching Kyrie, Hardy and Green highlights this year.  Some fun moments in a dreadful season.  If Kyrie is back, with Luka and Green (plus Hardy and maybe a draft pick who can create), having a bigger body who can finish (while also rebounding and defending) is important.  With the floor spread with creators, that player should be able to get 12-14 points per game off easy looks & free throws.


Watching the highlights, the Mavs really need to try to play at a faster pace.  Green and Hardy are much better in a quicker pace and Kyrie likes to play faster too.  If the Mavs keep and make a lottery pick, that player will play better fast too.   One thing you notice in most of the playoff games, is when a long rebound hits or a steal most teams make a sprint to the other hand and getting a basket at the rim.  Dallas doesn't do that much.    I really want to see this changed moving forward.

I agree about the pace thing.  You can always settle back into the excellent half court offense if early offense isn't there.

I think the main takeaway from watching those highlights is that you don't trade either of the youngsters in any package that doesn't bring back an All NBA type.  I know I've done it in the past with both players, but fairly regularly people will post trades including Josh where I think to myself Green is already as good as that guy.  Green is almost the exact prototype of what you'd want here (only the 25 year old version instead of the 22 year old version).   Hardy is a bit more of a projection still, but man the best of Hardy looks promising.  Those guys aren't the problem.  They are the solution.  

The problem is we have so little else...especially when people take #10 off the table.  #10 is a projection.  We either get the last of the athletic wings/PF's, or a 3 point shooter who looks like a taller Tyler Herro or the team's third PG.  All of those guys could turn out to be great, but man a lot of guys in the 5-10 range are busts each year.  I kind of hope our scouts are in love with someone expected to go a few slots lower (maybe the other French kid) and we trade down to that and add some other bit of value.  

I know we probably aren't on speaking terms with NY's front office right now, but is there a world in which #10 goes to them and we get a player of some kind and our 2024 pick back.  I would think NY would want a player more than the pick, so a third team might need to be involved.  I read recently that OKC gave 3 protected firsts for #11 last year.  Why not our pick back and Obi Toppin (he's kind of a stud when he gets minutes).  The angle here isn't as much about Toppin as it is freeing up 24 and 26 to trade for someone substantial.

[ItsGoTime]

I know we probably aren't on speaking terms with NY's front office right now, but is there a world in which #10 goes to them and we get a player of some kind and our 2024 pick back.  I would think NY would want a player more than the pick, so a third team might need to be involved.  I read recently that OKC gave 3 protected firsts for #11 last year.  Why not our pick back and Obi Toppin (he's kind of a stud when he gets minutes).  The angle here isn't as much about Toppin as it is freeing up 24 and 26 to trade for someone substantial.

I’ve proposed a #10 Bullock and McGee for Toppin and Hartenstein and 24 back that was shut down with no support the other way. Could revise that to Bullock and 10 for 24 back, Toppin and Sims. I see the value in that.

[ItsGoTime]

NYK is looking for a strong offer to get Lavine. #10 could highlight that package Cause if Chi is letting Lavine go, they’re blowing it up.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I’ve proposed a #10 Bullock and McGee for Toppin and Hartenstein and 24 back that was shut down with no support the other way. Could revise that to Bullock and 10 for 24 back, Toppin and Sims. I see the value in that.

The LaVine thing makes sense (BTW, one national podcast I listened to was discussing DeRozan for Ayton, which I thought made some sense if Paul is also gone or going somewhere.  No traditional PG, but Booker and DeRozan provide plenty of creation).  I’m also a fan of your construct where Dallas gets Toppin and Hartenstein plus 2024 for #10.  I’d actually do it for less than that.  Toppin and Sims would be fine with me but Hartenstein is obviously better.

I think the play here is for Barrett to go to Chicago along with Grimes or Quickly.  The Bulls are rebuilding around Patrick Williams, Barrett, a NY guard and #10 (plus Ayton if they do the deal for DeRozan).  NY gets someone who can play off the ball or on and spread the floor in LaVine (a better fitting version of Barrett).

There is absolutely no guarantee Dallas gets a player better than Toppin with #10.  He was drafted even earlier than #10 in his draft (kind of proving the idea that the new car loses value the moment you drive it off the lot).  But, you’ve filled a need (Toppin and Maxi are your PF’s) and you have things you can send along with two picks to get a center or a defensive wing or whatever your next trade target is.  I’m probably a bigger Toppin fan than most, but he produces when he gets minutes.  He’s a bit like Josh Green in that respect.  Not a bad thing when you already have two superstar scorers.

[ItsGoTime]

The LaVine thing makes sense (BTW, one national podcast I listened to was discussing DeRozan for Ayton, which I thought made some sense if Paul is also gone or going somewhere.  No traditional PG, but Booker and DeRozan provide plenty of creation).  I’m also a fan of your construct where Dallas gets Toppin and Hartenstein plus 2024 for #10.  I’d actually do it for less than that.  Toppin and Sims would be fine with me but Hartenstein is obviously better.

I think the play here is for Barrett to go to Chicago along with Grimes or Quickly.  The Bulls are rebuilding around Patrick Williams, Barrett, a NY guard and #10 (plus Ayton if they do the deal for DeRozan).  NY gets someone who can play off the ball or on and spread the floor in LaVine (a better fitting version of Barrett).

There is absolutely no guarantee Dallas gets a player better than Toppin with #10.  He was drafted even earlier than #10 in his draft (kind of proving the idea that the new car loses value the moment you drive it off the lot).  But, you’ve filled a need (Toppin and Maxi are your PF’s) and you have things you can send along with two picks to get a center or a defensive wing or whatever your next trade target is.  I’m probably a bigger Toppin fan than most, but he produces when he gets minutes.  He’s a bit like Josh Green in that respect.  Not a bad thing when you already have two superstar scorers.

That’s a pretty dang quick rebuild for Chi. Not bad and makes sense. Also looks like deals that make everybody pretty happy. I do wonder if Chi would look to squeeze another pick or 2 in, which NYK would tap out of as they would be giving up quite a bit. That’s where I also feel the Sims deal makes it much more stomachable seeing the run Hartenstein just had for them. Of course I prefer Hartenstein also with the added benefit of getting off McGee’s contract.

[Mavs2021]

NYK is looking for a strong offer to get Lavine. #10 could highlight that package Cause if Chi is letting Lavine go, they’re blowing it up.

Clearly they lacked the reliable outside shooting to punish the Heat defense. He makes a lot of sense.

Randle and Lavine.   We´ll finally see how far GM Mavs2021 could go. 

[DanSchwartzgan]

That’s a pretty dang quick rebuild for Chi. Not bad and makes sense. Also looks like deals that make everybody pretty happy. I do wonder if Chi would look to squeeze another pick or 2 in, which NYK would tap out of as they would be giving up quite a bit. That’s where I also feel the Sims deal makes it much more stomachable seeing the run Hartenstein just had for them. Of course I prefer Hartenstein also with the added benefit of getting off McGee’s contract.

Can you double S&T Wood for Vuc?  Wood joins Ayton and Williams in their big rotation.  Vuc isn't the ideal defensive center by any stretch of the imagination, but we're not exactly flush with options.  Maybe McGee is outgoing in that deal with Wood to make the salaries work.  BTW, it wouldn't shock me if they targeted Vuc even without the hypothetical we are discussing.  

Vuc and Toppin weren't designed to be your big moves, but they slot in as starters moving Powell/Sims and Maxi/Morris to the backups at the 4 and 5.  I think you are also set with scoring guards with Luka, Kyrie and Hardy.  Your big move is on the wing.  Green is the only sure thing and you'd presumably keep one of THJ or Bullock with the other one and your two future picks going out for the wing stud you are targeting.

[omahen]

I think neither Vuc nor Toppin suit to what Dallas needs. I would be dissapointed a lot if this would be the result of the offseason. Mavs need to get excellent defenders next to Luka and Irving.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

And we made us dependent on him.

So correct. The Mavs future going forward is dependent on him re-signing for a ridiculous amount of money,  If they can't come to an agreement, he has the leverage unless Cuban cuts bait and does a S&T to get worthwhile assets back. It starts tomorrow night to see if they can climb the ladder to a top-five pick, or retain the pick they owe the Knicks. Am I correct?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I think neither Vuc nor Toppin suit to what Dallas needs. I would be dissapointed a lot if this would be the result of the offseason. Mavs need to get excellent defenders next to Luka and Irving.

Easier said than done. Other teams need defenders too, and they aren't going to give them up for the Mavs poo-poo platter of assets they have.  Mavs are in a tough position to re-tool their roster.