ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[Scott41theMavs]

For all of the hand-wringing about the Kyrie pursuit - and I joined KL at the time as regarding the worst-case scenario as Cuban re-signing him to a 5-year max and subjecting the team to years of turmoil followed by a nasty exit, not to mention possibly losing Luka - but some savvy observers kept piping up, "Players love him." Kyrie has had a tremendously positive effect on this team. It's like he's the anti-Rondo. The team's offensive chemistry is the best it's been in years after a few short games, and Luka seems to be adapting to the major change. He's a very intelligent and experienced player who may even end up having a positive effect on team defense over time. Heaven help me, I *like* Kyrie the Mav, a great deal.

Since the trade, for me, things have very obviously and reasonably reversed - the worst-case scenario is that we aren't able to keep him this summer. Wow. If he stays, there will almost certainly be headaches and heartaches at some point, but keeping him, if we can, is still going to be the right decision.

[ballsrchr]

Not this “older folk”! As frustrating as the their roster management has been, the KI trade has gotten me pumped up. I was not thrilled with the trade when it went down, but I think KI likes playing in Dallas.  It’ll be interesting to see if a healthy Maxie will be enough to make us a serious playoff threat this season.

Yeah.  I'm an "older folk" and I had the exact same sentiment.  I'm not going anywhere.  But the slow erosion of this forum concerns me.  I hate looking for new forums...and this one was/is a good one.

[OBX Maverick]

Yeah.  I'm an "older folk" and I had the exact same sentiment.  I'm not going anywhere.  But the slow erosion of this forum concerns me.  I hate looking for new forums...and this one was/is a good one.

You know….there are some ups and downs on this forum at times, but it’s still the best place to read (usually) intelligent discussion about the Mavs. It’s in the spirit of the things which were going on in the original forums back in the day. I wish I had more time to research and post like some of these other guys!  Honestly, I’m on this board just about as much as anyone around here. However, I spend most of that time reading and enjoying what others are posting!

[IamDougieFresh]

The number of actual “toxic” posters here is pretty much 0 imo.

The closest thing to a troll is probably like 10% of my posts.

For me, I have probably been more negative than usual this season because of our mediocre results despite having Luka. Of course, I have my own opinions about what should be done, but I mainly post those over in the Wood and Kidd threads.

[KillerLeft]

For all of the hand-wringing about the Kyrie pursuit - and I joined KL at the time as regarding the worst-case scenario as Cuban re-signing him to a 5-year max and subjecting the team to years of turmoil followed by a nasty exit, not to mention possibly losing Luka - but some savvy observers kept piping up, "Players love him." Kyrie has had a tremendously positive effect on this team. It's like he's the anti-Rondo. The team's offensive chemistry is the best it's been in years after a few short games, and Luka seems to be adapting to the major change. He's a very intelligent and experienced player who may even end up having a positive effect on team defense over time. Heaven help me, I *like* Kyrie the Mav, a great deal.

Since the trade, for me, things have very obviously and reasonably reversed - the worst-case scenario is that we aren't able to keep him this summer. Wow. If he stays, there will almost certainly be headaches and heartaches at some point, but keeping him, if we can, is still going to be the right decision.

There was never a doubt in my mind that he’d play hard, make the team better, more fun and raise the ceiling…for the rest of this season.

What I didn’t expect is that I would enjoy that part as much as I am. It’s a lot of fun to follow them right now, and will continue to be for the rest of the season, at least.

I still would not have done the trade because of my debilitating fear of what comes next, once you are truly in business with a guy like that, but hey… It’s done now, so that is a conversation for next year.

[KillerLeft]

Personally I think Luka has given fans hope, and that has made things more emotional and therefore contentious.  

This is astute, and feels true to me. 

I’m not sure if the places you used to post went through this like we did or not, but in this community (through many different versions of it), there has always been a sense that Cuban wasted most of Nowitzki’s career. I’m not sure it was always the most fair claim, but on the other hand, sometimes I thought it was understated. Either way, 90% of this community has always been of the mindset that Cuban didn’t do enough to put good teams around Dirk.

I guess for me, and I assume for some others, it’s tough to watch history starting to show signs of repeating itself, particularly because Luka is so transcendent. This isn’t my favorite thing to admit, but that feeling is starting to suck the fun out of all of this for me a little bit. Maybe a good stretch run and a deep playoff run will alleviate the situation for me. I really enjoyed last year’s playoffs - more than most, I’d venture to claim - but then, Brunson happened. 

For whatever reason, it’s just hard for me to buy in right now. Throughout Dirk’s career I was easily one of the 10-20 most positive in this community. But this time through I have a much better sense of the likely consequences to these huge mistakes we’re seeing. I’m excited for the rest of the season but really worried about where things will be in about two years.

[WildArkieBoy]

This is astute, and feels true to me. 

I’m not sure if the places you used to post went through this like we did or not, but in this community (through many different versions of it), there has always been a sense that Cuban wasted most of Nowitzki’s career. I’m not sure it was always the most fair claim, but on the other hand, sometimes I thought it was understated. Either way, 90% of this community has always been of the mindset that Cuban didn’t do enough to put good teams around Dirk.

I guess for me, and I assume for some others, it’s tough to watch history starting to show signs of repeating itself, particularly because Luka is so transcendent. This isn’t my favorite thing to admit, but that feeling is starting to suck the fun out of all of this for me a little bit. Maybe a good stretch run and a deep playoff run will alleviate the situation for me. I really enjoyed last year’s playoffs - more than most, I’d venture to claim - but then, Brunson happened. 

For whatever reason, it’s just hard for me to buy in right now. Throughout Dirk’s career I was easily one of the 10-20 most positive in this community. But this time through I have a much better sense of the likely consequences to these huge mistakes we’re seeing. I’m excited for the rest of the season but really worried about where things will be in about two years.

With the Luka, Kyrie, Maxi, Wood? core, just a few tweaks could turn this franchise into a contender.  That future rests in the hands of a shoe salesman and a tv personality.

[Branduil]

The number of actual “toxic” posters here is pretty much 0 imo.

The closest thing to a troll is probably like 10% of my posts.

For me, I have probably been more negative than usual this season because of our mediocre results despite having Luka. Of course, I have my own opinions about what should be done, but I mainly post those over in the Wood and Kidd threads.

Some people would certainly not have lasted in the era of TMOGE and Mak's peak trolling.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

With the Luka, Kyrie, Maxi, Wood? core, just a few tweaks could turn this franchise into a contender.  That future rests in the hands of a shoe salesman and a tv personality.

I'd like to think the Mavs could/should have a core of Luka, Kyrie, Maxi, Wood and Green.
But that's never going to happen. 
As long as Kidd is the coach, Wood's not staying.

So the Mavs need to find another front court player plus a DFS replacement as the core guys.
With the right mix of players, Mavs could be a contender --- BUT they need to replace the weakest link -- JKidd needs to go.
But that's not going to happen unless Kyrie finds out his hero isn't the brightest bulb out there and wouldn't mind to see him pack.

[Jason Terry]

One underreported aspect of the roster post-trade is the difference in Dinwiddie and Kyrie defensively. I believe it was Kam that hammered this point home. Dinwiddie was a sneakily terrible defender and Kyrie has been better than advertised. This has been gravy on top of the issues that Kyrie has fixed: no more will Luka be the most double teamed player in the nba and no more will we have the worst offense in the league when Luka sits

Holiday looked good in his debut on both ends. Watching his interviews i see how he’ll fit in from a chemistry standpoint. It’s possible that we have the same luck with him that we’ve had with players in similar situations coming in. Guys like Dinwiddie and Kyrie coming in from bad locker rooms(WAS, Brooklyn, Atlanta). It’s a breath of fresh air for them to be here and we can bring out the best in them

Hardy got some good run this season. Minutes that will pay dividends over the next few seasons. I don’t expect him to play much going forward but it’s good that we did that. Now he gets an opportunity to watch real film and improve his game even more. He’s still available for a “break out in case of emergency” role and hopefully he gets at least one playoff cameo to add to his experience level going forward. Tremendous win in turning two 2nds into a quality young player 

The starters post-ASB - Luka/Kyrie/Green/Bullock - look good. It’s too early to say, but Dinwiddie/Hardaway/DFS out and Kyrie/Green/Bullock in could be a net positive on both ends. Offensively we have a real chance to be best in the league

THJ and Wood off the bench give us plenty of firepower and in these minutes against other reserves i look for them both to have an increase in efficiency 

The ceiling still depends on Maxi and I’m fine with that. The West is still wide open. We have yet to have a real hot streak this season and if we time it right we have as good of a chance as anyone to go on a deep run

[Mikelorenzo]

Is there any way that M.Turner is taking us?..reports say that Indiana has been trying to change it for some time..I'm not sure why they would move it, but that extension they gave it doesn't seem to take it off the market.. What would it cost us? 2FRP? Would they do it?

[ThisIStheYear]

I was all for the Kyrie trade. It’s worked out better than I thought and, along with Green’s development, gives the team some hope. It’s still been a very frustrating season, largely due to the coaching failure with Wood and the inconsistent coaching generally. But, at least the Kyrie trade has allowed the team to recover from the disastrous offseason. The Mavs can’t afford to have another one where they lose valuable assets for nothing — that means Kyrie and Wood must be resigned or included in SnTs that bring back substantial return. Otherwise, the team is thoroughly screwed long term.  There’s just not a lot of roster building opportunities on the horizon.

[MFFL]

there has always been a sense that Cuban wasted most of Nowitzki’s career. I’m not sure it was always the most fair claim, but on the other hand, sometimes I thought it was understated. Either way, 90% of this community has always been of the mindset that Cuban didn’t do enough to put good teams around Dirk.

I gotta say in all fairness that we have the 3rd longest streak of 50 straight winning seasons with Dirk and company. That ain't nothing.

Unfortunately our "dynasty" period happened at the same time (and was dwarfed by) the Spurs historic run. Compared to the Spurs, we didn't do enough. Compared to EVERY other team in the NBA at the time, we had an incredible run.

Coaching probably cost us a couple of titles unfortunately.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/KT_3410/status/16298...88743?s=20

[KillerLeft]

I gotta say in all fairness that we have the 3rd longest streak of 50 straight winning seasons with Dirk and company. That ain't nothing.

Unfortunately our "dynasty" period happened at the same time (and was dwarfed by) the Spurs historic run. Compared to the Spurs, we didn't do enough. Compared to EVERY other team in the NBA at the time, we had an incredible run.

Coaching probably cost us a couple of titles unfortunately.

I agree. Replace Avery Johnson with someone who isn’t having to learn on the job and they win at least one more, I am sure of it. I understand that Avery helped Dirk develop his iso game quite a bit, and have factored that into my opinion.

But, you make a good, valid point about the roster building and the Spurs timeline. It would’ve had to be a pretty damn special team to outshine that crew.

[omahen]

Kevin O'Connor on Twitter: "No team in NBA history has won a championship with a bad defense, bad depth, and a bad coach. The Mavericks are not title contenders." / Twitter

[SleepingHero]

Kevin O'Connor on Twitter: "No team in NBA history has won a championship with a bad defense, bad depth, and a bad coach. The Mavericks are not title contenders." / Twitter

Says KOC who put the Mavs under Title hopefuls in his latest article 2 weeks ago...

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Says KOC who put the Mavs under Title hopefuls in his latest article 2 weeks ago...

Well, better get it out in the open real quick to correct past mistakes.

[IamDougieFresh]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16303...08544?s=20

[sterlingmallory]

I want to pick up Noel now that he's been bought out. Waive Morris, Pinson, or Ntilikina, I don't care who really. Pick up Noel, plant McGee on the bench, and roll with a Noel, Maxi, Wood, Powell big man rotation. 

After that I'd like to waive McKinley Wright and pick up Eugene Omoruyi on a two way contract. Wright is too small and a pretty big negative on offense so I'd prefer to give his spot to Omoruyi. We desperately need big wings so he would be a solid prospect to pick up. I think we only waived him before because he got injured. Now that he's available again, we should pick him up again.