ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[Kammrath]

GK

[Chicagojk]

If Green has a breakout year, do we have to go back and thank Bobby V for drafting him?

No, I have already given up him ever being as good as Maxey or Bane.   It is doubtful he is as good as Bey, but that is not certain.   I am not as high on Bey as others but think he is at least a solid starter.   

But that doesn't mean Josh can't eventually become a solid, important player.   Whether that is a bench piece or eventual starter is tbd.   This year will be important for his career.

[DanSchwartzgan]

No, I have already given up him ever being as good as Maxey or Bane.   It is doubtful he is as good as Bey, but that is not certain.   I am not as high on Bey as others but think he is at least a solid starter.   

Posting this on you because your draft contributions going back years is impeccable, but the question I have is for the board as a whole.  Is it really fair to compare Green to Bane as a Dallas miss?  Someone will probably correct me, but I don’t recall anyone calling for us to draft Bane at 18.  Bey…yes.  Tons of people wanted him there.  Maxey, there were some, but not as many as Bey.  I do recall lots of people liking Bane and wanting us to move up to grab him in the late 20’s.  I was in that group as I follow TCU because my kids went there.

I just see an ever increasing move on this board from ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bey’ to ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bane’.  11 other teams made the same mistake, some more grievously than others.  I’m just wondering how many of us can really say “I told you so” on Bane at 18?

[Reunion Mav]

Good stuff this morning!
I like that we are getting our pre-season Koolaid glasses out. I do agree with many of the more positive observations. Getting benched in the playoffs might have been the best thing that has happened to Green. He is definitely going for it. The thought occurs that the same theory could be applied to Powell…..but I’m afraid we have already seen him maximize his limited ability.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I would presume that the season will start with a depth chart looking something like this:

Luka - Frank - Hardy
Dinwiddie - Green - Dorsey
Bullock - THJ - Pinson
GK - Maxi - Bertans
McGee - Wood - Powell

What screams out to me most from that depth chart is that there's no way they don't make a trade. Too many bigs..

I like your depth chart, but don’t necessarily agree about them trading a big.  $11mm for Powell is a sunk cost.  He may get some regular minutes and he is certainly able to step into a bench role if one of the bigs ahead of him is out for some period.  That’s important for a team trying to chase home court and a long playoff run.

Clearing out the 12-15 spots on the roster this summer allowed them to put real depth on the team.  6-9 is really strong, but an unsung part of the offseason is the improvement of those last several roster spots.  I like the way their depth allows them to adapt to just about anyone being out for a period of time in a way they couldn’t last season.

[Scott41theMavs]

I like your depth chart, but don’t necessarily agree about them trading a big.  $11mm for Powell is a sunk cost.  He may get some regular minutes and he is certainly able to step into a bench role if one of the bigs ahead of him is out for some period.  That’s important for a team trying to chase home court and a long playoff run.

Clearing out the 12-15 spots on the roster this summer allowed them to put real depth on the team.  6-9 is really strong, but an unsung part of the offseason is the improvement of those last several roster spots.  I like the way their depth allows them to adapt to just about anyone being out for a period of time in a way they couldn’t last season.

What I was ruminating on this morning is how key health is this year. The difference for the Mavs between a 52-win season and a 62-win season is Spencer Dinwiddie's health. Of course we haven't seen the injury problems during his short tenure here, but we have Cow to remind us constantly of how often that's been an issue in his career. If he plays 72+ games this year and is healthy throughout the playoffs, I feel like the sky's the limit - as in, for the current roster. If he goes out for the season like THJ did last year, then the year is almost as lost, imho, as it would be if Luka went down. The difference is that the latter is the solitary thing that could happen that would make tanking possible and realistic.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

What I was ruminating on this morning is how key health is this year. The difference for the Mavs between a 52-win season and a 62-win season is Spencer Dinwiddie's health. Of course we haven't seen the injury problems during his short tenure here, but we have Cow to remind us constantly of how often that's been an issue in his career. If he plays 72+ games this year and is healthy throughout the playoffs, I feel like the sky's the limit - as in, for the current roster. If he goes out for the season like THJ did last year, then the year is almost as lost, imho, as it would be if Luka went down. The difference is that the latter is the solitary thing that could happen that would make tanking possible and realistic.

I don't see any team winning 62 games this year, including the Warriors. The league is more balanced between East and West.  It won't surprise me if the top team in wins is somewhere between 53-57.

[mvossman]

Posting this on you because your draft contributions going back years is impeccable, but the question I have is for the board as a whole.  Is it really fair to compare Green to Bane as a Dallas miss?  Someone will probably correct me, but I don’t recall anyone calling for us to draft Bane at 18.  Bey…yes.  Tons of people wanted him there.  Maxey, there were some, but not as many as Bey.  I do recall lots of people liking Bane and wanting us to move up to grab him in the late 20’s.  I was in that group as I follow TCU because my kids went there.

I just see an ever increasing move on this board from ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bey’ to ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bane’.  11 other teams made the same mistake, some more grievously than others.  I’m just wondering how many of us can really say “I told you so” on Bane at 18?

Its interesting because I spent more time on another board than this one back then, and Bane was probably the most popular pick.  The general thoughts were:

1.  Bey was thought to not be an option as he would get picked earlier and the general consensus was that he was not worth moving up for since Bane would be available at 18.  When they both were there, folks would have been good with either.

2.  Maxey was considered redundant with Brunson.  He would be really nice to have now. 

3.  Green was not on anyone's radar.

[mvossman]

I like your depth chart, but don’t necessarily agree about them trading a big.  $11mm for Powell is a sunk cost.  He may get some regular minutes and he is certainly able to step into a bench role if one of the bigs ahead of him is out for some period.  That’s important for a team trying to chase home court and a long playoff run.

Clearing out the 12-15 spots on the roster this summer allowed them to put real depth on the team.  6-9 is really strong, but an unsung part of the offseason is the improvement of those last several roster spots.  I like the way their depth allows them to adapt to just about anyone being out for a period of time in a way they couldn’t last season.

The big exception being they have no answer for Luka or Dinwiddie missing games.  That Powell contract actually has some value as an expiring, and even more so at the TDL.  I hope they leverage it to trade for some rotation level playmaking.

[Jommybone]

I think we’re going to be really happy with Powell this year. He’s going to be the best 3rd-string center in the league. And he’s going to be a centerpiece of every trade possibility.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Its interesting because I spent more time on another board than this one back then, and Bane was probably the most popular pick.  The general thoughts were:

1.  Bey was thought to not be an option as he would get picked earlier and the general consensus was that he was not worth moving up for since Bane would be available at 18.  When they both were there, folks would have been good with either.

2.  Maxey was considered redundant with Brunson.  He would be really nice to have now. 

3.  Green was not on anyone's radar.

My recollection (and again, I’m nearly positive someone will produce a quote that says they said Dallas should have drafted Bane at 18) is that the overwhelming majority here wanted Bey.  Even in the first season most of the hand wringing was about missing Bey.  We did have a few mentions of Green here, but not many.  The Dallas connections produced some arguing for Maxey and even Hampton.  I made some positive comments about Stewart and was shocked he went 16th.

Bane was thought to be an early second or at best an end of first round guy.  18 was thought to be too early even though many people liked him.  I say all of this just to make sure we (collectively) are not moving the goal posts.  I think it is valid to say “I wanted Bey over Green” if that is what one said back then.  I’m not sure “the Mav’s suck because they missed Bane” is valid unless one actually said it back then.  I just don’t remember anyone doing that.

To repeat, none of this is intended to be a knock on Chicago.  I love his fantastic takes on the draft.  In fact, it is his bonafides as a draft guru that finally allowed me to say something I’ve been thinking for a while.  He’s really good about owning his hits and misses and more than anything seems to enjoy sharing good content with the board.

[mvossman]

My recollection (and again, I’m nearly positive someone will produce a quote that says they said Dallas should have drafted Bane at 18) is that the overwhelming majority here wanted Bey.  Even in the first season most of the hand wringing was about missing Bey.  We did have a few mentions of Green here, but not many.  The Dallas connections produced some arguing for Maxey and even Hampton.  I made some positive comments about Stewart and was shocked he went 16th.

Bane was thought to be an early second or at best an end of first round guy.  18 was thought to be too early even though many people liked him.  I say all of this just to make sure we (collectively) are not moving the goal posts.  I think it is valid to say “I wanted Bey over Green” if that is what one said back then.  I’m not sure “the Mav’s suck because they missed Bane” is valid unless one actually said it back then.  I just don’t remember anyone doing that.

To repeat, none of this is intended to be a knock on Chicago.  I love his fantastic takes on the draft.  In fact, it is his bonafides as a draft guru that finally allowed me to say something I’ve been thinking for a while.  He’s really good about owning his hits and misses and more than anything seems to enjoy sharing good content with the board.

That may be true here.  I was pointing out that it was a different mindset on another board.  I was crushed when they didn't draft Bane or Bey at 18, and crushed when Memphis stole him from us at end of first (I think the suggestion that they were going to pick Terry anyways was FO speak, but who know what they were doing that year).

That being said, I had no idea Bane would be this good.  I thought he had a really good shot of being a quality bench guard who could space the floor and be a secondary playmaker.  I saw him as a high floor, low ceiling guy.  No idea he could ever turn into this, and especially this quickly.

I thought Green was a low floor, low ceiling guy.  He had high bust potential, and there was nothing to suggest he could be a high level creator for himself or others.  If in the same draft, I would have had Hardy ahead of him for the high ceiling.  I have warmed up to him since, and I think he has a chance to be an MLE level player, which would make him a significant hit at 18.

[chaparral]

Some here talked about Bane having short arms.  But can't recall if they were implying then, that he would slip in the draft due to that reason.

I'm enjoying the this is Green's breakout year talk.  Would be a major win for the Mavs if in fact this happens.

[Kammrath]

Some here talked about Bane having short arms.

I completely wrote him off because of his short arms, I thought he would be unable to get his shot off or be a decent defender, etc.

[mvossman]

I completely wrote him off because of his short arms, I thought he would be unable to get his shot off or be a decent defender, etc.

Same reason the gambler didn't pick him.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Maxey: I had enough of the Jet-Devin-JJB backcourt to consider a small combo guard. If the Mavs are taking a combo guard it had to be the size of Clarkson or bigger. 

Bane: I was thinking he'd be just a 3 and D player at the NBA level. He proved me wrong.

Bey: I have to admit, I didn't want him. I thought he was too slow, still think he is. I would think Luka needs to be the slowest player for the Mavs and I don't want anyone slower than him.


My OG pick on that draft was Jaden McDaniels, and Green was my second choice at 18. So yes, I had Green under my radar LOL. 

I'd still pick McDaniels over Sadiq, as crazy as that sounds. McDaniel's already is a force in defense so much better than Green's impact on defense. That dude can legitimately guard 1 to 5. But like Green, he has to polish his ofense. If that happens, the Timberwolves would be one scary team.

Here's hoping Green makes the jump better than my OG pick.

[Chicagojk]

Posting this on you because your draft contributions going back years is impeccable, but the question I have is for the board as a whole.  Is it really fair to compare Green to Bane as a Dallas miss?  Someone will probably correct me, but I don’t recall anyone calling for us to draft Bane at 18.  Bey…yes.  Tons of people wanted him there.  Maxey, there were some, but not as many as Bey.  I do recall lots of people liking Bane and wanting us to move up to grab him in the late 20’s.  I was in that group as I follow TCU because my kids went there.

I just see an ever increasing move on this board from ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bey’ to ‘Dallas blew it by not drafting Bane’.  11 other teams made the same mistake, some more grievously than others.  I’m just wondering how many of us can really say “I told you so” on Bane at 18?

 I didn't have Bane that high either.   I was late the the party on him as well.  I never heard of him until after that season.  And even then, I thought he was your standard older guard who wouldn't interest me.   When I finally watched him, I really liked him.  Just a really fun watch.   At the time, you also had some pros who were really high on him playing pickup leading up to the draft. 

With that being said, my top two guys were Maxey and Precious.    After that, I had a grouping of guys like Bane, Terry, Hampton, Stewart and probably 1 or 2 more if I remember correctly.   So Bane was never a super high priority for me at 18.  Bey was probably closer to the range of Bane for me than in the Maxey and Precious wishlist.

On another board, I made a comment Josh Green may be a guy being slept on and wondered if the Mavs might be able to move back into the late to mid 20's to pick a guy like Green.  He was never a consideration for me at 18.  

I seem to remember some had Bane in their wishlist with others at 18 as we got closer to the draft, but that was probably the minority.

[KillerLeft]

I was crushed when they didn't draft Bane or Bey at 18, and crushed when Memphis stole him from us at end of first (I think the suggestion that they were going to pick Terry anyways was FO speak, but who know what they were doing that year).

Bane was absolutely going to be the pick, not Terry. Imagine if that had worked out!

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...4479245312

[cow]

Bane was absolutely going to be the pick, not Terry. Imagine if that had worked out!

Being a second round pick, we would have fucked up his contract.