ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[F Gump]

Kemba is not on their roster, he was bought out 2 weeks ago. 

That's erroneous as far as I can tell.

Kemba was reported to have "reached agreement" on a buyout over 2 weeks ago, on June 30. Here's a DET paper with the news. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/p...777741001/  But that was an odd item, in that he was still a Knick that day, and wasn't traded to DET until July 6.

Since then, no NBA source or report shows a buyout with DET as having occurred. The nba.com list of all the NBA's official transactions does not list a buyout for Kemba. https://www.nba.com/stats/transactions/#...1610612743  Various sites that track rosters and salaries show him still on DET's player list (rather than dead salary). So at this time, it appears he is still a Piston.

I expect one will eventually happen, and perhaps he is in the "waiting for deals to happen" quagmire surrounding Mitchell, Durant, etc. which sucks in teams who might have a peripheral angle to participate. Or maybe DET thinks they can trade him and save some money with someone else paying the buyout. Or perhaps DET decided they want him after all. Or, who knows.

[SwisherPrice]

Very surprised they lost out on AJ Lawson for a 2-way spot...unless it was his choice and he just preferred Minnesota. But the team is looking for wings and he seemed to be a perfect fit to develop for another 1-2 years.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Very surprised they lost out on AJ Lawson for a 2-way spot...unless it was his choice and he just preferred Minnesota. But the team is looking for wings and he seemed to be a perfect fit to develop for another 1-2 years.

They've been sleeping at the wheel this off season, outside the Wood and McGee deals.   I don't know why they didn't sign him to a 2 way, soon as summer league ended.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

That's erroneous as far as I can tell.

Kemba was reported to have "reached agreement" on a buyout over 2 weeks ago, on June 30. Here's a DET paper with the news. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/p...777741001/  But that was an odd item, in that he was still a Knick that day, and wasn't traded to DET until July 6.

Since then, no NBA source or report shows a buyout with DET as having occurred. The nba.com list of all the NBA's official transactions does not list a buyout for Kemba. https://www.nba.com/stats/transactions/#...1610612743  Various sites that track rosters and salaries show him still on DET's player list (rather than dead salary). So at this time, it appears he is still a Piston.

I expect one will eventually happen, and perhaps he is in the "waiting for deals to happen" quagmire surrounding Mitchell, Durant, etc. which sucks in teams who might have a peripheral angle to participate. Or maybe DET thinks they can trade him and save some money with someone else paying the buyout. Or perhaps DET decided they want him after all. Or, who knows.

Yeah, you're right.  I saw that he's still listed on their roster.  Don't have the foggiest idea why.

[F Gump]

Yeah, you're right.  I saw that he's still listed on their roster.  Don't have the foggiest idea why.

In most circumstances, Kemba would be in a hurry, if there's a buyout coming, so that he can recoup his amount given back. But it might be that he already has a team lined up.

Or maybe DET is planning to use him for trade fodder, where a diff team will make the decision. It's up to them if they want to pursue a buyout or not, and circumstances do change.

But I don't think he will be on DET roster when camp begins. He just doesn't fit the timeline in DET.

[Scott41theMavs]

Another hot summer day of the offseason in which the Mavs don't do a damned thing to improve their roster.

[dirkfansince1998]

Another hot summer day of the offseason in which the Mavs don't do a damned thing to improve their roster.

Dark days of the offseason. Summer league over. Traning camp still months away. And the Mavs roster looks incomplete...to say it nicely.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Another hot summer day of the offseason in which the Mavs don't do a damned thing to improve their roster.

Mavs are gearing up for a big trade. Skin Wade said so.

[ItsGoTime]

We had the “wing” talk not too long ago and from that, I took away that wings are guys that stand on the wing on offense. With that being the takeaway, why is tgere any sort of hesitation in calling THJ a wing? In the recent Locked on Mavs pod, they called THJ a “quasi-wing”, why the “quasi”? 

The wing is the 2 long range spaces to the left and right of the ball handler (please correct me if I’m wrong), how does that not make Kleber not a wing? He hardly ever sets picks and basically moves from the corner and up, same spots as DFS, Bullock and THJ.

Why can’t Wood be considered a wing for the same reasons? From what it sounds like, when we play 5 out, we play with a ball handler and 4 wings. Sure, there are times that a “big” plays pnr with the ball handler, but that will not be exclusively the way we play all minutes during that time.

All that to say, we really only have 2 exclusively bigs on the roster. Powell and McGee. There are others that can play that role, but they can also play other roles too. Positionless basketball.

Bigs: Powell, McGee, Wood
Wings: DFS, Bullock, THJ, Maxi, Wood, Green, Frank, Luka, Spencer, Hardy, Bertans
Ball Handler: Luka, Spencer, Frank, Hardy, Green

[KillerLeft]

Bigs: Powell, McGee, Wood
Wings: DFS, Bullock, THJ, Maxi, Wood, Green, Frank, Luka, Spencer, Hardy, Bertans
Ball Handler: Luka, Spencer, Frank, Hardy, Green

I think you're right on the money that THJ is a wing. I think some (including you, I thought) believe the Mavs would prefer a different wing. I don't for a second consider Kleber a wing, either. He's a 4/5. 

What you've got way wrong, I think, is the inclusion of Ntilikina and Green as ball-handlers. If that's part of the plan they might not make the playoffs.

[dirkfansince1998]

I think you're right on the money that THJ is a wing. I think some (including you, I thought) believe the Mavs would prefer a different wing. I don't for a second consider Kleber a wing, either. He's a 4/5. 

What you've got way wrong, I think, is the inclusion of Ntilikina and Green as ball-handlers. If that's part of the plan they might not make the playoffs.

Maxi was forced to defend wings because the Mavs didn´t have anyone else. Hopefully that´s a thing of the past. In a best case scenario he has more value as a 5-out small ball big.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi was forced to defend wings because the Mavs didn´t have anyone else. Hopefully that´s a thing of the past. In a best case scenario he has more value as a 5-out small ball big.

I mean, he can play 4 almost as well as he can play the 5, although probably to less of a team advantage, imo. I don't think playing minutes at the 4 makes him a "wing" at all. I think those lineups are what passes for "two-big" lineups in today's game.

[soog]

I think you're right on the money that THJ is a wing. I think some (including you, I thought) believe the Mavs would prefer a different wing. I don't for a second consider Kleber a wing, either. He's a 4/5. 

What you've got way wrong, I think, is the inclusion of Ntilikina and Green as ball-handlers. If that's part of the plan they might not make the playoffs.

I think the problem with this exercise is that JKidd runs 4 out or 5 out, so is someone a 4 or a 5 if they are standing on the perimeter all game? Yes and no.

And do we define a player by where they sit on offense or who they guard on defense?

I would argue that it doesn't really matter if THJ or Maxi are defined as wings. What does matter is your second point of of ball-handlers. This is much more clear and easier to define based on usage and it doesn't matter if the player is a point-guard, point-forward, or point-center.  

I think including Ntilikina as a 3rd ball-handler is appropriate even if it is far from ideal. I hope we don't see Green as a ballhandler. I think that would be very unfair to him and would not be putting him in a position to succeed. While I don't think including them precludes the Mavericks from making the playoffs, the lack of depth there may limit how far they go. To say they might not make playoffs severely underestimates the impact Luka has on the game.

[Kammrath]

Ntilikina as a 3rd ball-handler

This has always been my dream as the leader of the Ntilikina-Fan-Club.

[KillerLeft]

I think including Ntilikina as a 3rd ball-handler is appropriate even if it is far from ideal.

On this roster, right now, I agree. But, that's a change from how he has been used during his time here. I can count the possessions when he initiated the offense last season on like two hands, I think. Burke did it more, for sure, for comparison. So, as a ball-handler, Ntilikina was behind Burke in the pecking order. 

If your statement above is still true when the season starts, they're going to be in trouble.

[Kammrath]

If the your statement is still true when the season starts, they're going to be in trouble.

[KillerLeft]

I don't get it. You're not really advocating for Ntilinka being played as a point guard, are you? Guarding one, SURE! But playing that actual position? If he could do that, he'd still be in NY, playing on a healthy extension by now. It was obvious by his 3rd or 4th game here that he didn't have that in him.

[cow]

I don't get it. You're not really advocating for Ntilinka being played as a point guard, are you? Guarding one, SURE! But playing that actual position? If he could do that, he'd still be in NY, playing on a healthy extension by now. It was obvious by his 3rd or 4th game here that he didn't have that in him.

[Mapka]

Bigs: Powell, McGee, Wood
Wings: DFS, Bullock, THJ, Maxi, Wood, Green, Frank, Luka, Spencer, Hardy, Bertans
Ball Handler: Luka, Spencer, Frank, Hardy, Green

That's an optimistic view.

To me the positions are like:

Bigs:
Centers: McGee, Wood, Powell
PFs: Maxi, Luka(BH), Bertans

Wings: DFS, Bullock, THJ, Green

Guard: Dinwiddie

End of bench: Pinson, Hardy, Frank.

And there is a open slot, but no good way to fill it.

[ItsGoTime]

I think you're right on the money that THJ is a wing. I think some (including you, I thought) believe the Mavs would prefer a different wing. I don't for a second consider Kleber a wing, either. He's a 4/5. 

What you've got way wrong, I think, is the inclusion of Ntilikina and Green as ball-handlers. If that's part of the plan they might not make the playoffs.

The way I thought you had explained it was a wing is a wing is a wing, because it described the area of the court a player plays from in the offense. Maybe I still don’t get this whole wing description cause dfs98 talked about defensive assignments which I thought was dispelled in our previous discussion.


Before our discussion I thought we needed a “big wing”, but that was basically another way of saying…we need a PF. C’s have basically stayed C’s. PFs turned into big wings. SG and SF in general turned into wings and PGs at some point became ball handlers. Just feels like changing words to change words because…high brow reasons.