ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[Chicagojk]

C'mon guys, no one was (or is) giving away truly useful players that can make a difference. If you wanted to get yourself a bandaid of so-so quality, there were choices to be had at the TDL - and the prices were sky high.

On top of that, the Mavs didn't have much to work with, so IMO Mavs shouldn't be spending their few roster-building assets on bandaids. We talk about Siakam, then when he wasn't on the market after all, whine about not spending wildly on Sammy Scrub who might be more helpful for the moment than the crap they have. I think if they had, you'd regret it already.

I get it.  These players are tough to find.   And the odds of Mavs finding a helpful piece is not great.   But, we are so limited with a backup big energy guy, I would have liked to see us explore different options.    For instance, Lakers picked up Weyen Gabriel in March.   He is a long 6'9 guy who has bounced around the league.  He is still only 25.    Here is his last few games filling in for a short handed Lakers team.    

6 points 8 rebounds
9 points 11 rebounds
6 points 14 rebounds
6 points 8 rebounds.

Is it sustainable or is he just a scrub?  He is probably just a scrub, but could he play 10-15 minutes and provide something this team is desperately lacking?

[SleepingHero]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp6E8MYu4Qe/...mMyMTA2M2Y=

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/CBAMavs/status/1638128443069005825

[Mavs2021]

Shams says 31 year old Kyrie has plantar fascitis.



Luka says he doesn't feel the same joy on the court lately. He mentioned there's "a lot going on" beyond basketball.



I think it´s time for the "nuclear" option.



Go 0-8. Finish 9th. You can´t get to 9th, you live with the fire at #10. You literally lose nothing. Better to have a chance at #10.



Kyrie is broken down, Luka is mentally (and probably physically) in a very bad place. If we are lucky that´s just due to Kidd´s 2nd year effect and throwing the whole team under the bus regularly.



STEP 1:



We stay positive and say they manage to keep the pick at #9. Taylor Hendricks looks like everything we need. He looks to have great footwork. Can shoot off the dribble and catch&shoot. Can also finish inside.





https://youtu.be/DQvoe-zs0i8


No way that kid is a bust.



STEP 2: Sign & Trade Kyrie Irving. He´s a 31 years old. He´s a proven headcase. He reportedly has plantar fascitis. He blocks the development of Hardy.



There is almost no upside to this 200/4 extension, but there will be suitors that you can probably at least get out even.



Interestingly I did not know that Lakers/Pelicans 2023 was a swap deal (according to real gm) and now that it looks like the Pelicans will finish with a worse record the Lakers actually keep their pick. So here is the Kyrie trade....



Leonard Miller (Lakers, 2023 pick) + Bamba + Beasley + Russell (one year 35 million) for Irving + McGee





https://youtu.be/nTDDVRsLJ98

Step 3: Offer Paul Reed the full MLE. Playing behind the league MVP, top 20 in rebounds and top 10 in blocks per 36. This kid needs an opening.



Step 4: FIRE Kidd. Hire Sweeney as a young progressive head coach.



Doncic/Russell/Ntilikina

Green/Hardy/Beasley
Bullock/THJ
Hendricks/Miller/Bertans
Reed/Bamba/Kleber


Step 5: Next disgruntled superstar becomes available you have



1. Russell as a huge salary match

2. Beasley + Bamba + Bullock as expiring mid-range salaries

3. Young assets in Hardy, Green, Hendricks, Miller and Reed

4. Your future pick(s)



It´s over. Pull the band aid.

Just try Luka with two or three ball handlers (Russell is actually similar in terms of game style to Brunson) and hope the youth and athletism in the middle can hold up defensively to some extend.

If we are going to win 40 games next year, can we at least make it enjoyable.

If they extend Kyrie and keep Kidd it´s going to be a disaster. It´s so obvious. Kyrie´s probably having some serious underlying health issues and wants that last payday. Nets refused to give it to him, so he forced a trade to the biggest sucker in the league for walking spare parts. Now he´s behaving mentally, can´t even pretend to stay healthy physically for a month, while looking for that big payday. Luckily with the Lakers and Suns there might be an out, but only this summer.

[IamDougieFresh]

Please dispatch the police to 123 Sesame St. Dallas, TX immediately after Dwight gets his next contract with the Mavs so my body doesn’t decompose for too long.

[Chicagojk]

The Mavs just need guys who are tough and will do their job.   Ideally long guys who can defend multiple positions...and help out near the rim.  I keep going back to the Marion and Chandler types.   Just guys who do the dirty stuff or the small stuff that allow your stars to be stars.    Guys like Maxi and Josh do some of these, but they are not the caliber as the guys above.    Get a few of these guys who are pros and this thing looks much better.   At least until Kyrie decides he wants to protest animal rights.   

So if Kyrie returns, my focus is find a really good 4th starter.  One who fits the roster.   Find a veteran or uncover a hidden talent who can do the dirty work.  Think 7-8 man type.    Buy a second round pick or find an undrafted guy who you think you can develop.   Is that enough to be a favorite?  No, but it is on the right track.  Also, clear out the end of the bench.  Yes, on McGee.  Can't bring him back when he provides no use....no matter what his contract is.

[Mavs2021]

The Mavs just need guys who are tough and will do their job.   Ideally long guys who can defend multiple positions...and help out near the rim.  I keep going back to the Marion and Chandler types.   Just guys who do the dirty stuff or the small stuff that allow your stars to be stars.    Guys like Maxi and Josh do some of these, but they are not the caliber as the guys above.    Get a few of these guys who are pros and this thing looks much better.   At least until Kyrie decides he wants to protest animal rights.   

So if Kyrie returns, my focus is find a really good 4th starter.  One who fits the roster.   Find a veteran or uncover a hidden talent who can do the dirty work.  Think 7-8 man type.    Buy a second round pick or find an undrafted guy who you think you can develop.   Is that enough to be a favorite?  No, but it is on the right track.  Also, clear out the end of the bench.  Yes, on McGee.  Can't bring him back when he provides no use....no matter what his contract is.

Who is the 3rd starter? THJ, Wood, Bullock, Green? Doesn´t really matter, cause that "4th" starter needs to be better than them for the Mavs to become a contender during a Doncic/Kyrie era.

Get rid of Kyrie. Look at the history of the big trade:

Suns/Nets, unless Suns win a Championship BUST, the play of Bridges alone and Durant´s continuing physical struggles are enough already to say the Nets didn´t lose the trade.
Wolves/Jazz, the rookie play of Kessler alone already makes the trade a wash.
Mavs/Nets, certainly hasn´t made us any better or them any worse, and they have a 1st round pick and no 200/4 headache.
Clippers/Thunder, SGA is a better player than PG13 right now. 
Cavs/Jazz, both teams look exceptional, because Mitchell is young.
Lakers/Pelicans, without the bubble fluke the Pelicans run away with that trade and AD was young, too.

The recent evidence suggests these lopsided major trades for players in their 30s usually are a major bust for the team allegedly getting the best player.

Would you rather have Russell, Vanderbilt, Beasley, Bamba, Hachimura or Kyrie?

Cost wasn´t that different.

GTFO if you can, but I´m not sure the Lakers are dumb enough to trade for Kyrie. They were not a month ago. 
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I want that 9th pick.

There were two players I said would be perfect next to Luka.
#1 was Jaylen Brown long before you all still said Mavs should turn down Brown/Smart for Porzingis.
#2 was Anthony Edwards before he even played a college game.

How good would one of these look with Luka right about now, Antonio?

?

I feel the same way about Taylor Hendricks. Get this kid.

[Chicagojk]

Who is the 3rd starter? THJ, Wood, Bullock, Green? Doesn´t really matter, cause that "4th" starter needs to be better than them for the Mavs to become a contender during a Doncic/Kyrie era.

Get rid of Kyrie. Look at the history of the big trade:

Suns/Nets, unless Suns win a Championship BUST, the play of Bridges alone and Durant´s continuing physical struggles are enough already to say the Nets didn´t lose the trade.
Wolves/Jazz, the rookie play of Kessler alone already makes the trade a wash.
Mavs/Nets, certainly hasn´t made us any better or them any worse, and they have a 1st round pick and no 200/4 headache.
Clippers/Thunder, SGA is a better player than PG13 right now. 
Cavs/Jazz, both teams look exceptional, because Mitchell is young.
Lakers/Pelicans, without the bubble fluke the Pelicans run away with that trade and AD was young, too.

The recent evidence suggests these lopsided major trades for players in their 30s usually are a major bust for the team allegedly getting the best player.

Would you rather have Russell, Vanderbilt, Beasley, Bamba, Hachimura or Kyrie?

Cost wasn´t that different.

GTFO if you can, but I´m not sure the Lakers are dumb enough to trade for Kyrie. They were not a month ago. 
-------
I want that 9th pick.

There were two players I said would be perfect next to Luka.
#1 was Jaylen Brown long before you all still said Mavs should turn down Brown/Smart for Porzingis.
#2 was Anthony Edwards before he even played a college game.

How good would one of these look with Luka right about now, Antonio?

?

I feel the same way about Taylor Hendricks. Get this kid.

May not have a 3rd best player type.  May need to make due with 4, 5, 6 best players for the short term.  It would help greatly if the player they target this summer fills in their weaknesses.  

There is probably a good argument for not resigning Kyrie.  I just can’t get there.  For better or worse this trade was made for the long run.  Keep Hardy though.  He may either help lesson the blow if Kyrie goes crazy or if you eventually decide to move Kyrie in a few years.  Plus, if the mavs try to get cute this summer, they no doubt bungle it.

I haven’t even begun looking at the late lottery picks yet.  Just can’t get there yet.

[loki]

Would you rather have Russell, Vanderbilt, Beasley, Bamba, Hachimura or Kyrie?

Kyrie.

Quality > Quantity. You can pick up or develop role players of that caliber much more easily than you can trade for an all-star guard. The Mavs just need an offseason to do it.

[Chicagojk]

Iztok has a few tweets this morning, how offensive rebounding on the rise and the Mavs are on the opposite of that trend.   30th in rebound rate.  

This goes back to a bigger picture for me.   If you have a transcendent player and another star, we should be making trends, not being left in the dust with how the game is moving.  We should be making teams adjust to us all the time and have some determination on how they build their teams.   It just seems furthest from the truth.

Not sure if this makes sense, but it just feels like we get to a point when the league is already changing.

[Chicagojk]

While the trade has certainly not worked yet, I always thought it was a move for the future.  I just didn't expect it to get this ugly this year.

I hated giving up DFS.  While his role in Dallas was well established, I don't think losing him is the main reason for our collapse.  Same with Dinwiddie.   Yesterday, they both shot a combined 1 of 18.    DFS is really struggling shooting.   Dinwiddie has been better, but he was never going to be a great pairing with Luka.   I hope DFS can get into a rhythm soon there.   He will eventually shoot better, but it can be argued that Mavs sold at the right time for both.    But now the question is can they competently build a team around Luka and hopefully Kyrie.   Need to do it quickly.

[cow]

I hated giving up DFS.  While his role in Dallas was well established, I don't think losing him is the main reason for our collapse.

Agreed.  This team seemed broken before that trade.  It might be easy to write off a lot of the early season struggles on injuries as we certainly did get bit by that bug, but everything has felt out of whack this season and the obvious answer is JB being gone.  Boy was I continually wrong about him.  

RE:  God King.  Trading him made some sense.  Once he got his new contract, you took one of the better bargains in the league and made him a fairly paid player.  Using him for an upgrade at that point is good use of an asset.  The problem becomes backfilling him and further exposes a weakness of the organization in scouting/player development.

Agreed also about Kyrie being a future plan and not a piece to flip the season.  There are just too many holes and too many players on this team not living up to their hefty salaries.  Sending out DFS weakened an already shaky defense.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12...l_me_luka/

[dynamicalVoid]

Get rid of these players that have major holes in their game:

Dwight

Maxi

THJ

And if Josh Green value around the league is high and you can flip him for a true upgrade without losing too much defense/energy you do it.   Granted...the team seemed to be in tank mode and not trying so I dont know what Green would look like on a team really trying.   Can they take advantage of his energy and cutting ability?  Or is he just 3andD here.  If so...upgrade to a 3andD player that has more offensive feel for the game.

[Mavs2021]

Iztok has a few tweets this morning, how offensive rebounding on the rise and the Mavs are on the opposite of that trend.   30th in rebound rate.  

This goes back to a bigger picture for me.   If you have a transcendent player and another star, we should be making trends, not being left in the dust with how the game is moving.  We should be making teams adjust to us all the time and have some determination on how they build their teams.   It just seems furthest from the truth.

Not sure if this makes sense, but it just feels like we get to a point when the league is already changing.

We are trying. We are old, play slow, don´t defend and rebound, alwas trade for problem players and waste assets like there is no tomorrow, but the others just refuse to follow our lead.

---

Get rid of these players that have major holes in their game:

Dwight

I want the Mavs to let him walk, just to see whether he has any value around the league, if it´s above the minimum.

[dynamicalVoid]

We are trying. We are old, play slow, don´t defend and rebound, alwas trade for problem players and waste assets like there is no tomorrow, but the others just refuse to follow our lead.

---

I want the Mavs to let him walk, just to see whether he has any value around the league, if it´s above the minimum.

Luka's slow game is boring.  Team was way more exciting with Kyrie...or with second unit before Kyrie.

But...you get to say we werent trying and things would be different if we were trying.

Personally dont think Luka's game ages well in the NBA with high usage.   He can get guys open looks, though.  Its the 20 seconds of massaging the defense and the too frequent bad step back 3s that make the team really boring to watch.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Personally dont think Luka's game ages well in the NBA

I'll never forget that you wrote this.

[dynamicalVoid]

I'll never forget that you wrote this.

Cool.  Coming from the poster that has claimed he is the best offensive player I have ever seen numerous times.  Just a super super deep bag of tricks on offense.

But...his game is slow and and sometimes super boring.   I think the game is going towards 5 out quick guys that pass.   I think basketball should be like GSW on offense.   Luka isnt that.

I can already foresee posters coming in here to argue in Luka's defense claiming our team sucks, he isnt trying, put players around him and he will yield to actual good bball players....dont waste your time.

His game is slow.   Too many times he chooses to dribble for 22 seconds and then take bad step back 3's instead of moving the ball around like Kyrie.   I can already see the Illusion sending bots to argue that Luka does this to take jabs at the Front Office for not putting a squad together or some other lame excuse.

Luka is a coaches dream in a playoff setting.  But give me Kyrie night in and night out.   I dont like ball hogging and bad shots.   Whats funny is....posters are going to try and argue the ball hogging and bad shots point....but I watch a lot of GSW and never get frustrated with their offense.   Cool...different players and skillsets and schemes yada yada yada yawn.

TL;DR = NBA passes a lot, Luka holds ball too long

Edit:  Let me make a distinction on the style or type of basketball I think the NBA is heading into.   And yes...teams will always tailor the team around super stars.  Back in San Antonio's hay-day...I was watching a game and they displayed a stat on screen that I found remarkable...it showed that of the last 25 possessions for San Antonio, 23 of those possessions all 5 players on the court touched the ball at least once before a shot was taken.

[SwisherPrice]

It's valid criticism for Luka. After 5 years I'm starting to think he may be one of the hardest players to ever build a championship team around because of his style of play and defensive shortcomings. Especially when it comes to finding a good center/big man that fits with him on both ends of the floor

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Oh ya there's plenty of valid criticism to toss Luka's way don't get me wrong but saying the 24 year old who has already made 3 all nba first teams is not going to age well is a pretty bold stance to take.

The Mavs are down bad and Luka has certainly irked me the way that he's been irking everyone else and something is clearly off but we're letting a shitty end to the season get to the point where we're kind of ignoring that Luka is still objectively one of the best 6 or 7 players in the world.