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[KillerLeft]

So…

When the Mavs won their championship back in 2011, how many minutes were you happy?

I liked the team all year and defended it against naysayers on a consistent basis. I loved every second of the playoff run and the championship. I watched the DVR recordings of all their playoff games so much that my DVR had to be replaced. To this day, I usually try to find all of them on YouTube at least once a year.

I don’t think I have ever forgiven Cuban for breaking up that team.

[BigDirk41]

I am down bad, my dudes. I hope it doesn’t play out as badly as it does every time I imagine it in my head.

You forbid the Mavs to trade OMax so they didn't and had to give up a pick to keep you happy. You can't have it both ways man. Lol

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I like Bill Simmons but he’s lost his fastball some. He had Lively below Naz Reid, Coby White, Kessler, Giddey and DeRozan in his trade value rankings. Lively is 19 and making approximately 5m per year for the next four years.

[Scott41theMavs]

Mavs make a trade
"Mavs wasted assets while Luka clock is ticking"

Mavs don't make a trade
"Mavs miss opportunity to improve team while Luka clock is ticking"

Facts.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Boys bottom line is that out of 10 rotational players, 7 of them would be 7/8 guy on any team Mavs are supposed to compete against. Its not hating, or depressing, its just objective. What hurts is, Mavs keep trading for players like this while attaching picks! Trading in this manner, you eventually run out of assets and at that point you trade your super/all star and join the likes of Washington and Detroit at the bottom of the league for foreseeable future. Its a natural cycle.
Its where Mavs are headed. If you watch Nba (other teams, players) long enough its pretty obvious.
I hope for the best, I really do, but pointing stuff like this is not hating, its just objective, based on history, stats and eye test.
Personally the best outcome I would like to see this season is to have an epic battle with LAC in the 1 round. At least it would make for a good story and history. That is the best I can see Mavs doing this season.
Maybe they match up better with Minny or Okc in a series and can somehow make it to the second round, and then face LAC but that is the absolute max.
On the other hand there is still a very good chance they dont even make the playoffs. Priority at this point would be to somehow avoid play in, because that is a lottery. A bad day against Lakers and the season is wasted.

I wouldn't want to see the Clippers. They're a bad matchup for this team.

[Winter]

It's not like there's some stock recipe for success the Mavs have ignored. There's a lot involved in "contention."

There are 30 teams competing for the same players. You have to contend with all sorts of injuries. You have to gamble on 18-year old draft projects. You have very specific revenue streams available in some cities but not others. There are chemistry and lockeroom issues to deal with, salary cap restrictions, coaching changes, and a touchy fan base. Mistakes get made. Player evaluations are sometimes way off. Christian Wood probably had as good a rookie season as Jokic.

The Mavs aren't Detroit. This is nowhere near the bottom. Remember the 90's? Since Cuban bought the team, the Mavericks continue to hover in B- territory of the NBA... which has made it tough. But occasionally something like 2011 is possible. We certainly weren't expected to win that year.

The Rangers just won the World Series for crying out loud. I was certain I'd never see that.

[Branduil]

There's no doubt the Mavs need some of their back-of-rotation guys to make a jump to actually being top-of-rotation. They made that gamble with Grant Williams and lost, hopefully PJ can do better in the same role. Unlike Williams he's never actually been on a good team before.

[The Jom]

Surprised to read all this bed wetting here. The team just gave up nobody and picks that won’t be high enough to land a difference maker. What they got in return is 2 contributors on valuable contracts. That’s worth celebrating.

[KillerLeft]

Surprised to read all this bed wetting here. The team just gave up nobody and picks that won’t be high enough to land a difference maker. What they got in return is 2 contributors on valuable contracts. That’s worth celebrating.

I think there is a better than 50% chance that the picks will be very, very high. What makes you think they won’t be?

[The Jom]

Seriously, dude? With all those injuries, GW’s locker-room issues, and zero contribution from Seth/Richaun, they still weren’t on pace for the lottery. They just got healthier and deeper. Everybody’s on a good (and not short) contract. And there’s opportunity for another move this summer. Why on earth would you pick now to dispair?

[SleepingHero]

Man, I have to stop checking in with people’s opinions of these trades. The guys from Dunc’d On are some of my favorites. They understand the cap, the rules, are comfortable dealing in advance stats, but also clearly watch pretty much every single NBA game that ever happens and so the they always have educated opinions about these players. They trashed the Mavs’ moves even more than others.

“Several more arrows going out of the quiver, with no championship-level starters coming in”

“They added two more seventh men to a team full of seventh men and paid multiple firsts to do it.”

“I guess maybe Gafford is an ok defender, but then again he is the center on the league’s worst defense. He can’t defend in the post and fouls way too much.”

“Washington is an offensive upgrade to Williams, but is he going to hit more of the standstill shots? Are they actually going to use the things that he can do better than Williams?”

“They now don’t control their pic for basically a four year block, and you have to imagine that at least one of those years will include a top 10 pick, unless they’re able to retain Luka for that entire time, which these moves make me less sure of.” (Other guy) “Agreed.”

On and on and on. I am getting thoroughly depressed listening to this stuff. The Lowe Post didn’t like the moves much, either.

I think we might’ve just witnessed the nail in the Luka Doncic era coffin.

You went from being mildly optimistic to "this is the end of the Luka era" because several podcasters didn't like the moves? I remember every single talking head saying Dirk wasn't good enough to ever win and the Mavs are stupid to try and build around a guy who can't play defense. 

I also remember not just a year ago basically every podcast saying the Kyrie trade was horrific and the Mavs are doomed to lose him in the summer to the Lakers. On and on. The media has never liked the Mavs, I'm not surprised most talking heads don't like the Mavs moves.

Edit: And it's even more confusing because most people acknowledge the Mavs have gotten better, even substantially so. But then lambast the cost it took to improve the team? It makes zero sense. The only reason why the Mavs gave up 2027 is because they didn't give up a single prospect in either of the trades. We still have Green, Hardy, and OMax chilling on the bench. Are those as valuable as 2027? Remains to be seen. But its not like the Mavs can't punch for an improvement trade when they have 3 guys on cost controlled contracts that are young and have potential. And that's before even acknowledging that Gafford and PJ are young as well and have room to improve next to Luka.

They still have 2025 and 2031 to trade. They still will have picks in 2026 and 2028 if they need to draft someone. I know you're worried about Luka forcing his way out, but right now today if the cap continues to climb the next 2 years at the same pace, Luka's supermax will be worth about 400 mil and the Mavs can offer him 100 million more than any other team. Again ONE HUNDRED MILLION!!!!! Guys do not walk away from that kind of money, no matter how much of a winner they are. Like at all. Who is walking away from nearly half a billion for not even a guaranteed chance at a ring?

Like again, I was NOT for trading the 2027 for a PJ Washington level player. But I acknowledge that they didn't just get PJ. They also got Gafford, got rid of G-Will, Holmes, AND kept Omax, Hardy, and Green. The 2 2nds are whatever but another sprinkle of value in the deal.

They turned 2 guys who literally weren't playing a lick, and a guy who was pretty terrible for half the season (and whom everyone was annoyed with), into 2 starting caliber players.

It's certainly a risk that they took, but you have to take some to improve. The Mavs risked it all for Kyrie. I hated the move and that's what I thought would be the end of the Luka era. Incredibly it's worked out so far. They risked it for Wood. It blew up in their faces. They risked a pick on Lively, someone who I didn't think he'd be a rotation player till year 3. And he's currently having one of the best rookie seasons in Mav history. They risked it for G-Will trading a pick swap. It did not work out. See what I'm getting at?

[MFFL]

I think there is a better than 50% chance that the picks will be very, very high. What makes you think they won’t be?

Because we are a young team with room to improve.

Because a Euro player has never asked to be traded.

Because Cuban isn't in full control of the team anymore (I guarantee if the wheels start falling off, the new owners will step in).

Because our GM team has found a groove - look at the young kids we drafted and the diamonds in the rough we've found.

Because if we win a championship, flags fly forever - who cares what happens afterwards?

I'll leave more for other posters.

[KillerLeft]

Seriously, dude? With all those injuries, GW’s locker-room issues, and zero contribution from Seth/Richaun, they still weren’t on pace for the lottery. They just got healthier and deeper. Everybody’s on a good (and not short) contract. And there’s opportunity for another move this summer. Why on earth would you pick now to dispair?

I’m not despairing, and I think the team did just get better. I’ve been asking for PJ Washington for weeks and weeks.

But I think it’s extremely naïve to say that the picks will be low. Kyrie Irving will absolutely, 100% be gone and probably retired before any of those picks get made, and I think you could get pretty good odds in Vegas that Luka Dončić will be gone, too. The first one of the picks in question happens after what would be the first year of his NEXT contract. The pick swap they just made with OKC will happen after the second year of his next contract. Etc, etc.

You don’t think he’s going to arrive at free agency and wonder what the hell the Mavericks are going to do to improve the team moving forward from there with no draft capital?

I’m not trying to be a wet blanket, and in fact I want very much to enjoy the team. But my goodness, anyone who is not a fan of the team and not biased wants to talk about nothing but the consequences of this approach, and we all just seem to have our heads buried in the sand. I just think we should acknowledge that this bill is going to come due.

[The Jom]

Let me go on. Next to scorers like Luka and Kyrie, you gotta have players who can defend the better guard/forward while hitting open 3s. This team now goes 2 deep at that guard position (Green, Exum) and at least 2 deep at forward (Wash, Kleber, Jones). When could we ever say that before? Like, ever? And when (other than 2011) have we had 2 competent rim-protectors at center? I moved here and started watching in 2001. This is the best-looking squad I’ve seen em field. And maybe the youngest. If they don’t reach the NBA’s version of the final four, it will be Luka or Kyrie’s fault.

[Smitty]

I just think we get your point, acknowledge it, but don’t share your pessimism. Most think Luka will sign his extension and the Mavs will not be a lottery team contender with him on the court.

Also, the alternative was to do nothing.

Doing nothing could be just as worrisome.

We like the new look Mavs and understand what the cost of doing business is.

[KillerLeft]

I just think we get your point, acknowledge it, but don’t share your pessimism. Most think Luka will sign his extension and the Mavs will not be a lottery team contender with him on the court.

Also, the alternative was to do nothing.

Doing nothing could be just as worrisome.

We like the new look Mavs and understand what the cost of doing business is.

I do agree that if Luka resigns here they will not be a lottery team and those picks will be pretty low. I’m not entirely sure where the optimism that he will do so comes from, Especially after living through the Brunson situation as we all just have, but I hope you guys are right, obviously. 

I will not give on this: Doing nothing is very obviously NOT worse than doing something stupid. Sometimes inaction is the best thing. I’m not even really saying that I would have done nothing, and for the one millionth time, this is not about the players they got, both of whom I like. In fact, I think I like PJ Washington better than any single person reading this. 

I’m just freaked out about the future. I want to continue to enjoy the Mavericks after Luka is gone. Look at it this way: the great Sam Presti, whom all of you worship, is so sure Luka will be gone from here by 2028 that he just let go of a whole first round pick to help Dallas…just to get that pick swap. It is a very good gamble for him.

I’m kind of surprised I’m the only one freaking out about this. You guys realize they STILL owe New York for Kristaps Porziņģis, right? That experience hasn’t left anyone but me gun shy about trading these picks way down the road?

[MFFL]

Kyrie Irving will absolutely, 100% be gone and probably retired before any of those picks get made, and I think you could get pretty good odds in Vegas that Luka Dončić will be gone, too. 

I don't know why everyone is so ready to write off Kyrie. He's 31 (about to turn 32) but players play a lot longer now and at a very high level. He might not be amazing anymore in 4 years but he'll still be a nice weapon. And his next contract will reflect that.

And why would Luka want to leave if one of the kids becomes a hit? What if Lively levels up and becomes the next Bam? O-Max is going to start showing us stuff as early as next year - what if he becomes the next Siakam? Suppose Hardy makes a leap? What if two kids become a hit? Or all 3? Do you really think Luka would leave them behind?

[SleepingHero]

I do agree that if Luka resigns here they will not be a lottery team in those pics will be pretty low. I’m not entirely sure where the optimism that he will do so comes from, Especially after living through the Branson situation as we all just have, but I hope you guys are right, obviously. 

I will not give on this: Doing nothing is very obviously NOT worse than doing something stupid. Sometimes inaction is the best thing. I’m not even really saying that I would have done nothing, and for the one millionth time, this is not about the players they got, both of whom I like. In fact, I think I like PJ Washington better than any single person reading this. 

I’m just freaked out about the future. I want to continue to enjoy the Mavericks after Luka is gone. Look at it this way: the great Sam Presti, whom all of you worship, is so sure Luka will be gone from here by 2028 that he just let go of a whole first round pick to help Dallas…just to get that pick swap. It is a very good gamble for him.

I’m kind of surprised I’m the only one freaking out about this. You guys realize they STILL owe New York for Kristaps Porziņģis, right? That experience hasn’t left anyone but me gun shy about trading these pics way down the road?

Brunson only left because Mark Cuban refused to pay up. That is the only reason. If Cubes ponied up the full max, Brunson would still be here. 

Luka is not turning down a 5 year, 400 million contract, and walking away from at least 100 million. Especially because any team with Luka+Lively at the core of it is better than a lottery team. 

You were the one touting Lively this ENTIRE time. I had to be convinced. I'm a believer and I think in 2 years the guy will be one of the best centers in the league. That plus Luka and hopefully improvement by OMax+Green is already a solid core that has me optimistic in 2 years.

[surfpuckmd]

I’m not despairing, and I think the team did just get better. I’ve been asking for PJ Washington for weeks and weeks.

But I think it’s extremely naïve to say that the picks will be low. Kyrie Irving will absolutely, 100% be gone and probably retired before any of those picks get made, and I think you could get pretty good odds in Vegas that Luka Dončić will be gone, too. The first one of the picks in question happens after what would be the first year of his NEXT contract. The pick swap they just made with OKC will happen after the second year of his next contract. Etc, etc.

You don’t think he’s going to arrive at three agency and wonder what the hell the Mavericks are going to do to improve the team moving forward from there with no draft capital?

I’m not trying to be a wet blanket, and in fact I want very much to enjoy the team. But my goodness, anyone who is not a fan of the team and not biased wants to talk about nothing but the consequences of this approach, and we all just seem to have our heads buried in the sand. I just think we should acknowledge that this bill is going to come due.

I've been the most vocal critic of the PJ Washington trade but it's not all bad news.  

The Gafford acquisition is something to be excited about.  I believe he's the best player who was traded either Wednesday or Thursday.  I think he's our 4th-best player immediately.  We've really struggled in the non-Lively minutes this season.  I ran some numbers and Lively has only played 37% of the center minutes this season. Having Gafford take over most of the non-Lively minutes will just make us a much better team.  It will make us more competitive against some of the bigger teams in the West like Denver and Minnesota. I believe we can beat any team in the West in a playoff series even if we're not the favorites.  That wasn't true 2 days ago.  

In other good news, Josh Green has been playing well lately and is looking like a competent starter.  Kleber has even shown signs of life.  

Mark Cuban is no longer our majority owner and if he does enough stupid stuff, he'll no longer have any input into roster-building.  

Finally, if we fail in the playoffs this season, we'll almost certainly have a new coach next year.  I think a more creative coach would really make a difference.

There's lots of good news.  I apologize for harping on the PJ Washington trade for so long.

[Smitty]

I do agree that if Luka resigns here they will not be a lottery team in those pics will be pretty low. I’m not entirely sure where the optimism that he will do so comes from, Especially after living through the Branson situation as we all just have, but I hope you guys are right, obviously. 

I will not give on this: Doing nothing is very obviously NOT worse than doing something stupid. Sometimes inaction is the best thing. I’m not even really saying that I would have done nothing, and for the one millionth time, this is not about the players they got, both of whom I like. In fact, I think I like PJ Washington better than any single person reading this. 

I’m just freaked out about the future. I want to continue to enjoy the Mavericks after Luka is gone. Look at it this way: the great Sam Presti, whom all of you worship, is so sure Luka will be gone from here by 2028 that he just let go of a whole first round pick to help Dallas…just to get that pick swap. It is a very good gamble for him.

I’m kind of surprised I’m the only one freaking out about this. You guys realize they STILL owe New York for Kristaps Porziņģis, right? That experience hasn’t left anyone but me gun shy about trading these pics way down the road?

Ok, I’ll counter. Again I agree with most of the points you’ve made but the Mavs have a FRP in every future draft except ‘29 and possibly ‘27. Nico has done well in the draft and can continue to add young players to this team. 

OKC owns FOUR picks in this years draft that is reportedly one of the worst drafts in recent history. They weren’t using all of them. It was nothing for them to send one out for the lottery ticket of being able to swap with the Mavs 4 years from now.

The future is as bright as it’s been since Brunson left. The Mavs have Luka, Lively, Green, Omax, Hardy, PJW, Gafford all 25 or younger. They have 3 FRP’s and 4 SRP’s in the next 4 years to continue adding to the young core.