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[surfpuckmd]

Yeah, he can let one fly if he’s wide open, which is great, and he might even continue the trend of improving that skill playing next to Luka. 

I just want to caution folks that he’s not a “wing” on offense, really. He’s going to be ignored by the defense if he isn’t actively involved as a screener or cutter. His main competition for minutes, weirdly, is probably Powell/Holmes. Put him at the 4 with Kleber (or even Grant Williams) at the 5, and he’ll fit in pretty damn well.

Agree, he’ll be used offensively where he’s most effective-  as the roll man in the pick and roll.  He’s very efficient as the roll man.  His 3-point shooting is being underrated though. He’s improved every year for the past 4 years.  He shot 33.8% percent from three last year.  League average was 34.2 % last year.  He’s not a liability there like many will assume.  

I predict Derrick Jones Jr will play more minutes this season than either
Maxi or Grant Williams.  I think he’ll fit that well with our roster.  I do wish we had paid him more than the minimum and had a 2nd year option.  I may be wrong but I really anticipate him working out well for us this season.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs camp invite Greg Brown in the summer league. He didn’t have big stats. A few of his plays are impressive though.

https://youtu.be/8uke7AUONNI

[KillerLeft]

I predict Derrick Jones Jr will play more minutes this season than either
Maxi or Grant Williams.  I think he’ll fit that well with our roster.  I do wish we had paid him more than the minimum and had a 2nd year option.  I may be wrong but I really anticipate him working out well for us this season.

“Working out well” here is one thing. I wanted DJJ back when he was a free agent the last time. I think he was 21-22 at the time. I see the vision for his fit.

“Play more minutes than either Maxi or Grant Williams” seems impossible to me. Maybe if Kleber is hurt a lot again.

[omahen]

More musings on what the DJJ signing might portend:

There is no universe in which his presence here affects the minutes for THJ, Green, Curry or Hardy. Again, you can compare sizes and body types and it’s tempting to think he might present a more defense-first, athletic option to some of those guys. In reality, the guys whose minutes this might (MIGHT) affect are Powell, Williams, Kleber, Holmes and O-Max. In other words, this guy merits inclusion among the Mavs’ BIGS, basically.

Further, I weirdly think the timing of this signing might signal that they’ve given up on any possible trade for a center. DJJ is not a center, but he has played small-ball 5 quite a bit, actually (as has GWilliams). I see this as adding another tool in the belt of “bigs by committee” and think it means we’re likely to see a LOT of small ball.

5/4 combos like this will be the mainstays:
Powell or Holmes with Williams or maybe O-Max (if his shot is reliable)
Kleber with Williams, O-Max or DJJ

But, we might also see a fair amount of:
DJJR or O-Max at the 5, GWilliams at the 4 (or the reverse of this)

Talk about a fast, athletic, switchable defense!

Interesting way of thinking. I admit I didn't watch him closely lately, just looking at numbers. I would say he is a guard on defense and PF on offense, because he is a bad shooter*. He is 6-5 at some 210 pounds. I think that is way too little to really fight with any serious big wing or center. He can jump high, I agree with that. I don't see why he wouldn't play defense on guard/wing position. I would be very scared of GW-DJJ pairing at PF-C. That would be one seriously undersized line-up. One of the bigger problems Mavs had last season already.

*I don't consider 40 % on WIIIIDE open shots a particularly impressive stat. Very low number of attempts anyway and I don't think it will get any higher with Luka, because they were leaving him open anyway.

[KillerLeft]

Interesting way of thinking. I admit I didn't watch him closely lately, just looking at numbers. I would say he is a guard on defense and PF on offense, because he is a bad shooter*. He is 6-5 at some 210 pounds. I think that is way too little to really fight with any serious big wing or center. He can jump high, I agree with that. I don't see why he wouldn't play defense on guard/wing position. I would be very scared of GW-DJJ pairing at PF-C. That would be one seriously undersized line-up. One of the bigger problems Mavs had last season already.

*I don't consider 40 % on WIIIIDE open shots a particularly impressive stat. Very low number of attempts anyway and I don't think it will get any higher with Luka, because they were leaving him open anyway.

Oh, I think he’s capable of defending wings. No issue. 

You just can’t play him unless he’s the worst shooter you have on the floor. He CAN be the screener/roller, and is very good at that, in fact, but obviously this takes him out of any lineup that includes Powell or Holmes. 

It’s actually a conceivably good fit since Luka is going to be guarding down almost exclusively. 

I’m mostly just trying to head off the dozens of pages of people who can’t understand why the Luka, DJJ, O-Max, Williams, Holmes lineup isn’t being used. I’ve been acquainted with Mavs fans for decades, and I promise there will be people arguing for this guy to play the 2 about a week into the season.

[omahen]

DJJ is not close to average shooter, he is a bad shooter. DJJ shot 1.3 3PA per game, which is approximately one third of his total attempts. 1.1 3PA out of 1.3 3PA per game was wide open. I think this describes very nicely what kind of shooter he is and how much defences care for him shooting (which impacts the overall situation on court). That 33 % is not good at all. He did hit 37 % of those wide open looks, while he was below 20 % when he was just "open" (opponent 4-6 feet from him). He basically didn't try shooting if opponent was closer and missed all of those rare attempts. He shoots rarely and not good, which is the sole reason why he was never more than a role player, somewhere around 9th guy on the team.

[KillerLeft]

DJJ is not close to average shooter, he is a bad shooter. DJJ shot 1.3 3PA per game, which is approximately one third of his total attempts. 1.1 3PA out of 1.3 3PA per game was wide open. I think this describes very nicely what kind of shooter he is and how much defences care for him shooting (which impacts the overall situation on court). That 33 % is not good at all. He did hit 37 % of those wide open looks, while he was below 20 % when he was just "open" (opponent 4-6 feet from him). He basically didn't try shooting if opponent was closer and missed all of those rare attempts. He shoots rarely and not good, which is the sole reason why he was never more than a role player, somewhere around 9th guy on the team.

Totally, and it’s not like this is just about range. He’s not going to be useful in any sort of mid-range, DeRozan way, either. Essentially, he can’t have the ball in his hands unless he’s standing under the basket or two steps away from it, headed downhill. He is LESS skilled with the ball than DFS (read this sentence 2-3 times). 

Offensively, DJJ is Dwight Powell. The good news is that he’s REALLY good at being Powell on offense.

[omahen]

Oh, I think he’s capable of defending wings. No issue. 

You just can’t play him unless he’s the worst shooter you have on the floor. He CAN be the screener/roller, and is very good at that, in fact, but obviously this takes him out of any lineup that includes Powell or Holmes. 

It’s actually a conceivably good fit since Luka is going to be guarding down almost exclusively. 

I’m mostly just trying to head off the dozens of pages of people who can’t understand why the Luka, DJJ, O-Max, Williams, Holmes lineup isn’t being used. I’ve been acquainted with Mavs fans for decades, and I promise there will be people arguing for this guy to play the 2 about a week into the season.

I think a lot will also depend if the Mavs will start to play faster. If they will be still playing slow, than they need guys who can score those wide open shots at very good percentage. Otherwise they will have big problems staying on the court. If they start playing faster where wings are pushing the ball in transition, than those kind of guys will easier find time. Luka commands halfcourt if the push is not successful. Never understood why Dallas played so slow.

Slovenia national team is full of below average wings next to Luka as basically the only guy that can really create somethin in halfcourt. Yet Slovenia is playing very fast scoring a bunch of points. Wings are running and pushing the ball and Luka finds them. That is why I have a bit of a problem that it is just Luka that wants to play slow in Dallas. Slovenia games are very fun to watch on offense (defense will be extremely bad this year with almost all plus defenders injured). On a smaller court where it is more difficult to score (just paraphrasing what Luka said in one of his first seasons). Dallas was mostly boring.

[KillerLeft]

I think a lot will also depend if the Mavs will start to play faster. If they will be still playing slow, than they need guys who can score those wide open shots at very good percentage. Otherwise they will have big problems staying on the court. If they start playing faster where wings are pushing the ball in transition, than those kind of guys will easier find time. Luka commands halfcourt if the push is not successful. Never understood why Dallas played so slow.

Slovenia national team is full of below average wings next to Luka as basically the only guy that can really create somethin in halfcourt. Yet Slovenia is playing very fast scoring a bunch of points. Wings are running and pushing the ball and Luka finds them. That is why I have a bit of a problem that it is just Luka that wants to play slow in Dallas. Slovenia games are very fun to watch on offense (defense will be extremely bad this year with almost all plus defenders injured). On a smaller court where it is more difficult to score (just paraphrasing what Luka said in one of his first seasons). Dallas was mostly boring.

What a great point!! 

I agree, between DJJ, O-Max, Williams, Exum and even Curry, a foundation for faster play is being laid. Kleber and Powell could always run as bigs, and frankly, playing slow with them detracts from their positives and enhances their less than ideal attributes. I hope we see a shift in pace and ball-movement, for sure. 

I respect your educated Luka opinions a lot, so I trust you that the slow play hasn’t solely been a Luka thing, but I can’t deny that it SEEMS like he’s the culprit when I watch the Mavs. I think it’s a combo of less than elite conditioning (by NBA standards, and on a grueling NBA schedule) and maybe a reluctance to give the ball up early in the shot clock. Regardless, I really think a positive shift in this area might do wonders for the team’s season.

[mvossman]

Agree, he’ll be used offensively where he’s most effective-  as the roll man in the pick and roll.  He’s very efficient as the roll man.  His 3-point shooting is being underrated though. He’s improved every year for the past 4 years.  He shot 33.8% percent from three last year.  League average was 34.2 % last year.  He’s not a liability there like many will assume.  

I predict Derrick Jones Jr will play more minutes this season than either
Maxi or Grant Williams.  I think he’ll fit that well with our roster.  I do wish we had paid him more than the minimum and had a 2nd year option.  I may be wrong but I really anticipate him working out well for us this season.

I'm a huge fan of the DJJ signing, but I can't imagine a situation not involving injury where he would play more minutes than Williams.

[mvossman]

*I don't consider 40 % on WIIIIDE open shots a particularly impressive stat. Very low number of attempts anyway and I don't think it will get any higher with Luka, because they were leaving him open anyway.

The point is not impressiveness.  Its about finding ways for him to be workable on offense so we can take advantage of his defense.  We couldn't play Frank because he killed offenses.  If played properly, Derrick doesn't kill offenses, he just slows them down some.

I don't think his corner percentage will get higher, but I think the percentage of his 3s coming from the corner will increase, upping his overall percentage.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

IMO Kidd is the major intangible for having a successful season.  What we saw last year was offensive coaching at its worst.  Kidd needs to have out of bounds plays after time outs and end of game plays that are different that just throwing the ball to Luka and hope he hits a 3.  Last year many times teams knew what play they were running before they ran it.  That cannot happen again. I still believe we are an offensive coordinator type coach short.  I have very little hope Kidd can improve in that area, but we’ll soon see.

As long as he's been around, he should have picked a few things up from other coaches he's worked with. Like I said earlier, having a successful season purely has been placed in his lap. Management has reset the roster from the mishmashness of last year, so it's on him to improve his approach.

[JamesConway912]

Totally, and it’s not like this is just about range. He’s not going to be useful in any sort of mid-range, DeRozan way, either. Essentially, he can’t have the ball in his hands unless he’s standing under the basket or two steps away from it, headed downhill. He is LESS skilled with the ball than DFS (read this sentence 2-3 times). 

Offensively, DJJ is Dwight Powell. The good news is that he’s REALLY good at being Powell on offense.

We already have Dwight Powell on the roster though. As well as Holmes, Lively and McGee. None of these guys can shoot a lick so they’ll never be able to play alongside each other which is why I dont understand the DJJ signing. He’s only a fringe roster player who won’t make or break the roster but a floor spacing frontcourt player would have been a lot more feasible given the little depth in that regard on the team.

I think we are WAY too dependent on Kleber staying healthy now. Say what you want about Wood and Bertans but we’ve lost a ton of shooting from the PF/C position now that they’re gone. Who do you play pick and pop with once Kleber sits? Omax? I suppose they put a lot of this on Williams but another dependable guy is lacking here.

A decado ago we had a similar outlook heading into the season and then they brought in Troy Murphy and that chinese guy midseason. I fear we’ll see another one or two pickup like that come January/February. 

It’s a shame that the Wood thing went this badly. He would be such a good addition to our frontcourt right now and his market can’t be very strong.

[sterlingmallory]

Yes, this is/isn't the last roster slot. :-)  They have a full set of bodies on paper, I think.* But as you know, there's nothing that would prevent them from adding another if they wanted to -- this time of year, just waive someone expendable if you already have 21. And if they had an IMPORTANT target available, no biggie to shuffle the cards. The only limit is Apron 1 and trade-match rules.

[*Or do they? I lose interest in closely following the bodies not really meant to be on the NBA roster, but saw this blurb which sounds like they are still not even full yet. "When Jones’ signing becomes official, he will be the team’s 15th standard contract. Dallas also has two of its three two-way slots filled, with potential Exhibit 10 contracts looming for Greg Brown, Joe Wieskamp and Jordan Walker." The limit iiuc is 21, and that only adds up to 20. Are we missing someone?]

There were reports that we also signed Taze Moore and Dexter Dennis to camp deals in addition to the three that you listed. So by my count we're actually at 22 total which is over the offseason max I believe. So I have to assume either one of Dexter Dennis, Taze Moore, Greg Brown, or Joe Wieskamp is getting waived.

I have this:

Main Roster
Doncic
Irving
Hardaway Jr
Williams
Green
Hardy
Kleber
Curry
Powell
Jones Jr
Holmes
Prosper
Lively
Exum
McGee

Two way
AJ Lawson
Mike Miles Jr

Camp Deals
Jelly Walker
Taze Moore
Dexter Dennis
Greg Brown III
Joe Wieskamp

Barring a 2 for 1 trade or McGee waiver I assume one of those camp guys is getting waived soon to bring us to 21. Then another once training camp starts to get to 20. Then the remaining 3 will compete for the last two way spot.

[surfpuckmd]

“Working out well” here is one thing. I wanted DJJ back when he was a free agent the last time. I think he was 21-22 at the time. I see the vision for his fit.

“Play more minutes than either Maxi or Grant Williams” seems impossible to me. Maybe if Kleber is hurt a lot again.

Maxi struggled last season after his return from injury.  It's likely that he returned too soon but I think it's also likely that a 31-year post-major lower extremity injury never returns to his pre-injury level.  I think Jones and Maxi provide similar skillsets defensively but with Jones being better able to cover quicker players and Maxi better able to defend bigs.  They provide different skill sets offensively.  I think Jones was clearly a better player than Maxi last season. We'll have to see how Maxi recovers.

As to Grant Williams, we'll see.  I think Williams is a great 3-point shooter who is average defensively.  That's a valuable player but I think the board is overrating him somewhat.  Jones is a significantly better defender than Williams and better able to finish in the pick and roll.  On a team that is already excellent offensively, I predict Kidd will appreciate the defense that Jones provides.  I may end up being wrong but I predict Jones will play more than 25 mpg.  

I agree with your earlier post that Jones pairs nicely with either Kleber or Williams.  I think most lineups will include one of Kleber or Williams and one of Powell or Jones.  We'll see what Jason Kidd prefers in a few months.

[surfpuckmd]

DJJ is not close to average shooter, he is a bad shooter. DJJ shot 1.3 3PA per game, which is approximately one third of his total attempts. 1.1 3PA out of 1.3 3PA per game was wide open. I think this describes very nicely what kind of shooter he is and how much defences care for him shooting (which impacts the overall situation on court). That 33 % is not good at all. He did hit 37 % of those wide open looks, while he was below 20 % when he was just "open" (opponent 4-6 feet from him). He basically didn't try shooting if opponent was closer and missed all of those rare attempts. He shoots rarely and not good, which is the sole reason why he was never more than a role player, somewhere around 9th guy on the team.

Reggie Bullock shot primarily wide-open 3-pointers as well.  Jones will receive the same treatment when he is not the screener on offense.  

DJJ will benefit from playing with Luka and Kyrie.  

Jones job on offense will be to screen and roll or to shoot open 3-pointers.  

I think it also is illustrative the Jones has improved his 3-point percentage every year for the past 4 seasons. This shows that he is working on that during the off-seasons. There's a reasonable chance that he can improve his 3-point percentage this season as well.

I think will succeed in his role here.  He is a good role player who will fit the rest of the roster very well.

[The Jom]

Totally, and it’s not like this is just about range. He’s not going to be useful in any sort of mid-range, DeRozan way, either. Essentially, he can’t have the ball in his hands unless he’s standing under the basket or two steps away from it, headed downhill. He is LESS skilled with the ball than DFS (read this sentence 2-3 times). 

Offensively, DJJ is Dwight Powell. The good news is that he’s REALLY good at being Powell on offense.

I hear you. But then why play him ahead of Powell? Powell is darn good at being Powell on offense.

[KillerLeft]

I hear you. But then why play him ahead of Powell? Powell is darn good at being Powell on offense.

I think that’s a good question. I suppose if you want to even smaller, even more athletic and even faster?

[F Gump]

There were reports that we also signed Taze Moore and Dexter Dennis to camp deals in addition to the three that you listed. So by my count we're actually at 22 total which is over the offseason max I believe. So I have to assume either one of Dexter Dennis, Taze Moore, Greg Brown, or Joe Wieskamp is getting waived.

.................

Barring a 2 for 1 trade or McGee waiver I assume one of those camp guys is getting waived soon to bring us to 21. Then another once training camp starts to get to 20. Then the remaining 3 will compete for the last two way spot.

The reports on Moore and Dennis are a bit hazy. The Mavs haven't made any announcements, but that is often the case with E10s. Did they actually sign anything?

Let's go ahead and assume all of Dennis, Moore, Brown, and Wieskamp signed Exhibit 10s, which are barebones deals (formerly known as camp deals or summer deals). If they did, someone is getting waived when DJJ signs, as you noted.

But that's no biggie. These days those E10s are primarily designed to be a conduit to GL. There can be small guarantees attached to the E10 deal, which is the enticement for a player going down this path. While on the E10 contract, they are on the roster, and then will be part of training camp, but once waived the Legends have their exclusive GL rights (if they opt for the GL, which is why they would have signed the deal in the first place).

So there would be nothing to prevent one of them (or even all) from being waived at this point, rather than in camp. They would still be headed to the Legends, except for the fact that they wouldn't be able to participate in Mavs TC. But the road ahead for a player like that would otherwise be unchanged.

[F Gump]

That particular comment was about Wood.  If we are indeed at the roster limit and if we are indeed done, then a Wood S&T is even more challenging than it was before.  It’s obviously not impossible as things could change, but it just seems really unlikely now.  
 

Thanks for your reply and the shared insights.

I want to focus on this one ^ quoted part, since it answered my question posed to you. About Wood and a SNT, I think there are much greater obstacles to "Wood as a trade asset" than the Mavs use of a sliver of payroll or a roster slot on DJJ.
...The "roster limit" is a complete non-thing this time of year. Players with no NBA payroll impact, who signed to be waived, they are in the way of nothing. And a SNT of Wood as part of a package probably ends with a net decrease in players after the transaction, not increase.

The #1 obstacle to a SNT I see is the total lack of demand for his services, and signing DJJ didn't alter that. It sure looks like no one wants to pay him more than the minimum. That reality erases any need (and opportunity) to move him via SNT, since all teams can offer minimums without hassling with a trade. 

The #2 obstacle would be Cuban vs The Tax Collector, ie, will Cuban pay tax? I'm guessing the return would have to be significant, for Cuban to go over. But I don't think DJJ changed the possibilities there re a Wood SNT, as I don't see enough room for a "more than min" SNT that would have been enough to fit Wood desires, as a SNT would have him locking himself into that size salary for 3 years.

A non-obstacle imo, even with DJJ in the payroll mix, would be the hard cap. The Mavs are still >$9M under the apron, which seems to dwarf the rosiest projection of what Wood will get offered.

A couple other observations about Wood and such things...

1 I see the many reports that LAL would like to sign him, but only with a minimum and he hasn't said yes. But they seem to think that still could end in a deal. That's evidence to me that SNT for a much bigger number is worrying about the impossible.

2 If you want a conspiracy theory idea with a Wood SNT in the mix, there's one we can envision. It's the idea that Wood is waiting to be included in that mythical (-in-my-estimation) Sept 6 trade. 

But if this is actually looming, it would be all good, even with DJJ. In a pre-planned trade waiting for the days to pass, the Mavs already know the pieces, the math, and everything. If Wood is really to be a pivotal SNT piece in it, then his agent knows the number and has signed off, Cuban knows the cap result and has signed off, all the dealing would already be done. The point being, the Mavs signed DJJ to FIT with whatever they may have in place (including any awaited trade) and it works for them.

3 In theory Wood does have value. On some level you'd love to bring him back as a Mav at the minimum. But he hasn't ever bought into the idea of him putting coach, team, etc as his priority and focus, and without those he's just not worth the hassle. Sad, really. And kinda frustrating. But I guess he is who he is.

SIDE NOTE on awaited trade(s): I think there is better potential for a "later" trade idea to be something that is close, but set aside until ~Dec 15, rather than Sept. That gives the teams a chance to evaluate what they have and also to have more movable pieces that can be used to make a more palatable exchange for both teams. I think particularly of Capela and Ayton, and how Dallas and either of those teams can better balance their issues of payroll and player value. Obviously Wood could NOT potentially be part of that sort of possibility.