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[KillerLeft]

I think it is a pinch of what you are describing and a pinch of not making trade in a position of weakness that would result in an overpay.  In that regard, I'm encouraged by whatever iteration of the MBT this is.

-They know they don't want McGee
-They aren't sure what they have in Holmes but have some hope.
-They know what they have in Powell and now that he's on a much more reasonable number, we shouldn't have much of a problem with the player even if his role isn't ideal.
-Maxi is an injury concern and probably can't give you starters minutes in the regular season.
-Lively is going to take some time to adjust and earn minutes.
-Drummond didn't want to come here because he didn't want to be a 3rd or 5th wheel in a weak position group.
-The Suns turned down the Mavs trade offer for Ayton.
-The Mavs turned down Atlanta's draft night trade for Capela.

I think a lot of that tells us that management isn't happy with the state of our center rotation and they have made attempts to improve but aren't going to take the first deal that comes along.  I really appreciate the patience and restraint they've shown.  You probably can remake this into a championship roster overnight.  Further, we have a long way to go until the trade deadline and there are Dame and Harden sized logjams right now that might be further limiting our options.

Greatness. I agree with all of this.

[KillerLeft]

Yes. I like Lively. I have no clue what Holmes has left in the tank. Still happy about the summer. But I think the usual over the top offseason hype is going to make it a lot harder for both. Don´t want to imagine how fans would react if Lively/Holmes are sold as the 23/24 starter only to be replaced by Powell a few weeks into the season.
I think in this case less pressure and reasonable expectations are the way to go. If only to avoid the usual hype --> high expectations --> backlash dynamic.

Interesting. 

Dallas’ fan base is one of the most delusional and least basketball literate (present company excluded, obviously) so I can’t say your worries about what’s coming are unfounded. I haven’t put much thought into what culpability the front office has in that. You might be right that they can help things with a little more transparency.

There’s also a matter of the signals they send to the guys who are on the roster, however.

[cow]

I'm not really sure what to expect from the Mavs this year. So many questions.

-What is Grant Williams as a starter?
-What is Josh Green as a starter? Does the new role bring consistency and confidence?
-Can Kyrie and Luka make wonderful music? That's going to require Luka to do a lot more on the offensive side of the court while the ball isn't in his hands?
-Will Hardy make a sophomore leap? Summer League was far from encouraging.
-Can the center position be upgraded before the TDL?
-What is THJ's role? I'd hope he's a 2nd unit guy. Can he thrive doing that where he has historically not? Hardy, Curry, THJ seems like a weird combo.
-Can O'Max hit open looks? If he can, he's going to get a ton of minutes.

Feels like we are still a bottom seed team with all those questions but if things fall the right way, a lot of potential as well.

[michaeltex]

FWIW, here's the D Magazine article about DLive

https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2023/07...y-defense/

I get the concern about the 4/5 positions, but this guy Luka took a DP-centered team to the WCF season before last, IIRC. Rumor has it that he's still around somewhere. Whatever we have now has got to be collectively better than 2 years ago (or last year), so I have confidence the team will be in contention once the season ends in April. (Yes, that is a Koolaid stain on my shirt)

I think the key to total success is finding out how to unlock Luka and Kyrie together. I wonder if getting him out of the backcourt altogether and let him play more of a Jokic hybrid role would work. Or PnR with Kyrie. 

1 - Kyrie
2 - Green
3 - Williams
4 - Luka
5 - DP/Holmes/DLive 

Problem solved. And I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

Miller time, anyone? (Actually, I'm more of a Shiner guy)

[F Gump]

I don't think they signed Powell to a 4 mil contract to start, and even if he does its very likely he get well under 20 minutes a game due to the (potential) depth at the position.  He hardly played at all those first couple of weeks to start last season and it took McGee completely pooping the bed to get him out there.  I don't know what we are getting from Holmes, but I bet its more than we got from McGee.

I agree with all of this. I think the complaints about Powell being the starter are knee jerk overreactions. He was re-signed to mostly help Lively figure out the PNR nuances, not to start. He's certainly not getting starter money. He'll play only to the extent he is better than the alternatives.

[The Jom]

I’m excited about seeing Powell abusing second string defenders and actually being able to hold his own in the post defensively, mostly cause he’s not playing vs. starters. Reverse peter principle, right? If they hafta start him again, that will be sad.

[omahen]

I agree with all of this. I think the complaints about Powell being the starter are knee jerk overreactions. He was re-signed to mostly help Lively figure out the PNR nuances, not to start. He's certainly not getting starter money. He'll play only to the extent he is better than the alternatives.

Same story as with McGee last season. It is important who starts. It matters to players and to overall perception of the player value. I have zero problems with Powell and his contract. But he is not a starting caliber center. We know it. If Mavs are claiming that 4 mil role player Powell is better option than Holmes, than they are tanking whatever little value he perhaps has. 

Of course the theories of Powell starting are coming from some media guys, we didn't hear it from Mavs

[KillerLeft]

He'll play only to the extent he is better than the alternatives.

Correct.

And he’ll be better than the alternatives. Easy to see that coming.

[omahen]

Correct.

And he’ll be better than the alternatives. Easy to see that coming.

This part with Powell I don't understand. You are preaching patience. Ok, I can accept that strategy, although Irving doesn't fit into it. Mavs as they are are not a contender. I can't see it. So the goal should not be to win a couple of games more, but to better position themselves to become a contender. I am not talking tanking. But I am talking about more minutes for the young guys, even if they are making some mistakes, and increasing value of players that will likely be traded. Powell will finish his career with Mavs, so play him in the role that is meant for him. Starter is not it.

[Chicagojk]

I got part way through the "Take Dat Wit You" podcast with Followill and Dameris today.  

They think starters (if we are done) will be Powell, Williams, Green, Kyrie and Luka.  They think Maxi will close at center with Williams, Kyrie and Luka.  Not sure who the fourth closer will be.  Probably someone from among Curry, Green, Hardy or THJ (if he's still here).  They think OMax has an impact this season.  They are less sure that Lively will.  They see Seth and Hardy competing for minutes

Dameris made a kind of snide comment when talking about Capela possibility still being alive.  He said Mav's won't be making a move this next week.  My tea leaf read of this is the earliest this happens is when Bufkin is eligible to be traded on 8/2 (so the week after).  From what I've seen other places, it may not be Hunter going to Toronto.  It might be Capela and kids (some combo of three out of Bufkin, Griffin Jr., Bey and Johnson).  Still not sure what good two years of THJ does for Toronto, but clearly they don't need Capela.

Thanks for the heads up.   A few things that stuck out to me is Dameris thinking Hardy may be out of the real rotation.  As you mentioned he thought he would battle Curry for minutes and maybe earn minutes as the year goes on.   Maybe that is the case, but I thought Hardy would earn an every game rotation spot.  A lot of guys looking for those minutes though.   Followell thought Hardy would be in the rotation.

Followell says that there are some big fans of Jelly Walker really high in the organization.  I would bet one of these is Cuban.   Demaris went on to say that he would be surprised if Jelly Walker does not get a two way spot.  

Something that was hinted on here before but also said by the guys was leaving some of the MLE open for the buyout market.    

Question on your vision of OMAX.  do you see him as a future starter (lets assume he develops into a starter) at PF or SF.  I was thinking PF.   Followell thought he would be the backup at SF this year.   I thought he would get his minutes behind Grant.  thoughts?  Maybe it doesn’t matter as positions are mixed, but I think I see him more of a new age PF type.

[KillerLeft]

This part with Powell I don't understand. You are preaching patience. Ok, I can accept that strategy, although Irving doesn't fit into it. Mavs as they are are not a contender. I can't see it. So the goal should not be to win a couple of games more, but to better position themselves to become a contender. I am not talking tanking. But I am talking about more minutes for the young guys, even if they are making some mistakes, and increasing value of players that will likely be traded. Powell will finish his career with Mavs, so play him in the role that is meant for him. Starter is not it.

They are trying to walk the line between getting younger and being competitive this year. Other than outright rebuilding, which would really be tough with Luka around, this seems like the only sane strategy to choose, because they simply didn’t have the assets left to build a contender in a matter of months. 

Lively IS their stab at a solution at center, hence the use of a lottery pick on him.

From there, there are two choices: 

1) start him right away and play him significant minutes, crash course style, and live with the losses as they pile up, all for the sake of tomorrow.

2) put together a committee of low/reasonably paid players to help the team play as competitively as possible while he learns. Seeing as BOTH Powell and Holmes are the exact type of pick and roll bigs the Mavs want Lively to be on offense, this makes loads of sense to me. 

They paid Powell appropriately for such a mentorship position. The fact that it’s a 3-year deal that they offered and that he agreed to, despite having a 1-year offer for THE SAME TOTAL money tells me that both Powell and the Mavs think he’ll be here for a while. Longer than Holmes, in all likelihood. I doubt HE will be here more than a year, and possibly not past the upcoming trade deadline. This time next year, he’ll be a very conveniently sized expiring. 

I don’t care who starts. Powell is going to play less than starter minutes, same as he always has. But, I happen to think he’s a better player than Holmes, so I happen to think he’ll play more. 

At the end of the day, KLEBER is the one who matters. Anyone hoping the Mavs compete this season should be hoping he’s healthy and playing well down the stretch and in the playoffs. The rest of this is just fans whining, imo.

[mvossman]

Correct.

And he’ll be better than the alternatives. Easy to see that coming.

Not sure he will be better and not sure that will be enough.  If Holmes can hold his own and do some of the things Powell struggles with (defensive rebounding and rim protection) than I think he will stick as starting center, even if Powell has a better impact.  I think they really don't want to start Powell if they can help it, but I will admit that Holmes is the only reasonable alternative in the short term.  If he can just not suck then he will likely continue to start and we will have a committee at center.

[KillerLeft]

Not sure he will be better and not sure that will be enough.  If Holmes can hold his own and do some of the things Powell struggles with (defensive rebounding and rim protection) than I think he will stick as starting center, even if Powell has a better impact.  I think they really don't want to start Powell if they can help it, but I will admit that Holmes is the only reasonable alternative.  If he can just not suck then he will likely continue to start and we will have a committee at center.

Trust me, I get your perspective.

And nobody will be happier than me if Holmes reclaims his career here. But…

I don’t hate Powell like the average troglodyte Mavs fan does. I think that somehow (fans being bored, mostly), he has reached a point where he’s actually underrated. I also think that it’s far more likely Powell is able to do what he has always done than it is to assume a guy who fell completely out of his rotation last year will suddenly merit a high minute role. 

I think FANS really want Powell replaced, but I think the MAVS simply wanted to improve their center situation. Two different ways of stating the same thing, but with a different tone. I sure hope the Mavs aren’t so determined not to play Powell (like the fans seem to be) that they aren’t open to him being the best option.

[Smitty]

Trust me, I get your perspective.

And nobody will be happier than me if Holmes reclaims his career here. But…

I don’t hate Powell like the average troglodyte Mavs fan does. I think that somehow (fans being bored, mostly), he has reached a point where he’s actually underrated. I also think that it’s far more likely Powell is able to do what he has always done than it is to assume a guy who fell completely out of his rotation last year will suddenly merit a high minute role. 

I think FANS really want Powell replaced, but I think the MAVS simply wanted to improve their center situation. Two different ways of stating the same thing, but with a different tone. I sure hope the Mavs aren’t so determined not to play Powell (like the fans seem to be) that they aren’t open to him being the best option.

You have more confidence and belief in Powell than even the Mavs do, if the rumors are to be believed.

[KillerLeft]

You have more confidence and belief in Powell than even the Mavs do, if the rumors are to be believed.

Not really.

They wanted to improve over him. I would’ve, too.

After some time in the market, they assessed that getting him back at a reduced rate was a boon, relative to the alternatives (like Drummond). I would’ve, too.

They are still looking at ways to get clear cut difference makers like Capela, but without losing their ass in the process. I would be doing that, too. This means that they don’t think Holmes is a solution that definitively solves the short term problem. I don’t, either.

They value Powell’s presence in the locker room and ability to show Lively how to be a world-class pick and roll big enough to commit for three years. I would’ve, too. 

I really don’t get how any of this is controversial. The second they re-signed the guy it was a signal that they were moving on to plan B, C, F…whatever. 

Now, he’s here. I can understand how those who are misguided enough to think he’s a terrible player might assume other players are better, but it seems like people are suggesting that it’s in some way beneficial not to play him even if he’s the best choice. That seems bananas to me.

[KillerLeft]

Look, the Mavs DID go into the summer wanting to improve on Powell in the short term. In fact, they’re still out there trying to accomplish that. I don’t dispute that in any way. That’s where the “rumors” are coming from, sure.

But have they? There’s still time, but if the season started tomorrow, I submit that this one goal, in isolation, is something they failed to achieve. That’s all I’m saying.

However, his new contract is GREAT, and he’s going to be useful past this season. When grouped with the things they DID accomplish, this isn’t that big of a bummer, imho.

[Smitty]

Maybe I envision Powell in a different, effective role, a little differently than you do and I hope the Mavs do also. Signing him for less than McGee, on a 3 year contract, signaled that he would be a good 3rd center to mentor Lively and that he could “fill in” as a capable big when those ahead of him aren’t effective that night, resting or injured. The fact that they’re still looking for a Capela, Allen, Ayton or did so previously doesn’t tell me as much about Holmes as it might for you because those 3 are very clearly upgrades to even the most optimistic outlook of what Holmes could be.

[KillerLeft]

Maybe I envision Powell in a different, effective role, a little differently than you do and I hope the Mavs do also. 

You're still acting like I WANT Powell to be the main center. 

It doesn't matter what role you, I or the Mavs envision for Powell if there's nobody here better than him to play the role he has been playing, which, INCIDENTALLY, was only "starter" in the most technical of ways. 

It is very likely that Powell will prove to be a better, more consistent player than Holmes. That's all I'm really saying here. If I'm wrong, then that's GREAT! They'll have TWO good options to soak up minutes. But ultimately, it's irrelevant because KLEBER is the one that matters and Lively is coming, eventually.

[Scott41theMavs]

You're still acting like I WANT Powell to be the main center. 

It doesn't matter what role you, I or the Mavs envision for Powell if there's nobody here better than him to play the role he has been playing, which, INCIDENTALLY, was only "starter" in the most technical of ways. 

It is very likely that Powell will prove to be a better, more consistent player than Holmes. That's all I'm really saying here. If I'm wrong, then that's GREAT! They'll have TWO good options to soak up minutes. But ultimately, it's irrelevant because KLEBER is the one that matters and Lively is coming, eventually.

People seem to be missing that Holmes was benched for off-court and coaching style reasons. It's no stretch to presume he hasn't lost much in the last two seasons. He's 29, not 34. 

Speaking of "stretch," anyone for Mirotic?

[RDB]

IMO, not achieving an off-season goal does not equate to failure. I like the effort but it’s not like we had much to work with. I am super pleased with what we have done and am way more optimistic for the future.

Unlike some here, I think we are more than 1 Capela away from being legit. I would love to upgrade at C but please, please, please, don’t do something stupid. IMO, if we stand pat, those who consider this off-season a failure are those who had unrealistic expectations. Anyone with any clarity should have known it was going to take more than 1 off-season to fix our mess.

As far as Holmes, I am willing to discount last year as I think he just didn’t fit what the Kings were trying to do. Is he the answer for the Mav’s…no. But it’s not like Powell has set some high bar offensively or defensively. I think Powell and Holmes will end up being 1A and 1B. Holmes will provide some on the court production that Powell can’t but will not match some of his intangibles. And I’m fine with that…just show me some solid progression and a vision for the future and I’m giddy.