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[ItsGoTime]

I agree with the first part. For years Mavs needed to improve top of the rotation, as they lacked that 3rd and 4th best player on a contender but had a bunch of (at best) five best players. As it is now, they only replaced Bullock with GW, who was 8th man in rotation for Boston. We hope he is more than that. We hope Green can take another step forward and become credible starter, who he wasn't last season. Mavs had great individual moves, but didn't address biggest issues of the roster. I am affraid how this season will look like.

I do see what you’re saying, in the past though those players acquired were mostly offense guys. GWill is a legit 2 way player, and if Green takes that step up, he is too. That is what gets me excited. 

When we had Bullock playing both sides of the game, even though he was an at best 5th guy on a championship team, we went to the WCF. Add in the hope of OMax being a day 1 contributor as a defense mostly guy (with the hope of better offense) and the trend is finally going the way of great team building. 

That would be 3  two way players, 1 more than we had on the WCF team, with the hope of Lively and Holmes panning out to give us legit C play (please get Capela so it isn’t just counting on more hope). Lots of hopes, I know, just 1 more great move Nico, just 1 more.

Death, taxes and the west not being healthy. Last hope, we stay healthy and we’re most likely in the mix.

[mvossman]

I got part way through the "Take Dat Wit You" podcast with Followill and Dameris today.  

They think starters (if we are done) will be Powell, Williams, Green, Kyrie and Luka.  They think Maxi will close at center with Williams, Kyrie and Luka.  Not sure who the fourth closer will be.  Probably someone from among Curry, Green, Hardy or THJ (if he's still here).  They think OMax has an impact this season.  They are less sure that Lively will.  They see Seth and Hardy competing for minutes

Dameris made a kind of snide comment when talking about Capela possibility still being alive.  He said Mav's won't be making a move this next week.  My tea leaf read of this is the earliest this happens is when Bufkin is eligible to be traded on 8/2 (so the week after).  From what I've seen other places, it may not be Hunter going to Toronto.  It might be Capela and kids (some combo of three out of Bufkin, Griffin Jr., Bey and Johnson).  Still not sure what good two years of THJ does for Toronto, but clearly they don't need Capela.

I greatly hope they try Holmes as a starter, both because I want to see what he has with that kind of opportunity and because I dread reading all of the posts bitching about Powell.

[omahen]

I greatly hope they try Holmes as a starter, both because I want to see what he has with that kind of opportunity and because I dread reading all of the posts bitching about Powell.

I said it before. I just don't get the logic behind starting Powell. Mavs know he is not a starter level center. That is a fact. So why sticking to it. Put Holmes in the role, give him minutes and at minimum try to pump his value. Even if he is not a long term solution, it will be easier to move him at TDL or in the summer. If Holmes suck, his value will not be lower as it is. Can't get lower  

Mavs with Powell as a best center are not a contender. If you are not a contender, it is about small steps toward becoming one. One of them is described above.

[mvossman]

I agree with the first part. For years Mavs needed to improve top of the rotation, as they lacked that 3rd and 4th best player on a contender but had a bunch of (at best) five best players. As it is now, they only replaced Bullock with GW, who was 8th man in rotation for Boston. We hope he is more than that. We hope Green can take another step forward and become credible starter, who he wasn't last season. Mavs had great individual moves, but didn't address biggest issues of the roster. I am affraid how this season will look like.

I would argue that Williams is a replacement for Dorian, not Bullock.  Our replacement for Bullock of last season is probably Exum (the bar is very low).  Our replacement for Bullock circa the WCF run is probably Green right now.  In fact, if you look at that roster two years ago, we are replacing Brunson/Dorian/Bullock/Din with Kyrie/Williams/Green/Hardy/OMax/Lively/Holmes.  We got younger and added more depth in the frontcourt.

A team with Luka, Kyrie and several decent role players should have done better than what they did last season.  I don't know how much was Kidd's fault and how much was locker room issues, but it was probably a combination of both.  One of the things they seemed to focus on this offseason was cleaning up the locker room.  I'm hoping that will have a significant impact on performance this coming season.

[Scott41theMavs]

A few things:

1) Omahen, I get your frustration with the Mavs still arguably not having the three starter-level players they need next to Luka and Kyrie. The fact of the matter is that this bed was already made with the loss of Brunson, and Nico did the best he could - way better than most of us expected - with the hand he was dealt.

2) It seems evident that THJ has to be gone, one way or another, in spite of the observations made about him being more valuable in trade at the TDL or next summer as an expiring. While noting that Luka is a de facto three within the starting lineup (especially when the other superstar on our team is a point guard), you still have five guards - Kyrie, Green, Hardy, Seth, and Exum - who need to be fed. I think THJ's trade value stays level, rather than increasing, if he can't get playing time.

3) If the Mavs acquire Capela, Holmes is the backup, Lively gets developmental minutes, and Powell very hopefully waves a mean towel. Nice to have a real starter, but keep in mind as well that this a) nukes our spacing on O, since Clint can't shoot, and b) it also destroys the ability to elevate Holmes's trade value. Things to think about.

[Smitty]

I’m bored and no Mavs news so I created a potential rotation with the assumption that the Mavs are done making moves that matter. It’s a mix of what I’d do and what I think the Mavs would do so I know there will be plenty of criticism, but maybe it’s a conversation starter.

[The Jom]

Sure looks like Phoenix and Atlanta have overpaid, dinosaur centers they desperately want to move. Sure looks like the Mavs are the only real suitors, and are offering only THJ and junk. Also looks like Phoenix and Atlanta are trying to call Mavs’ bluff only to find out it maybe isn’t a bluff this time. Mavs under new management. Playing hardball. Our deal, our terms, or no deal. Hard for me to dislike that strategy even if in July it looks like Dwight is our starting 5.

[mvossman]

A few things:

1) Omahen, I get your frustration with the Mavs still arguably not having the three starter-level players they need next to Luka and Kyrie. The fact of the matter is that this bed was already made with the loss of Brunson, and Nico did the best he could - way better than most of us expected - with the hand he was dealt.

2) It seems evident that THJ has to be gone, one way or another, in spite of the observations made about him being more valuable in trade at the TDL or next summer as an expiring. While noting that Luka is a de facto three within the starting lineup (especially when the other superstar on our team is a point guard), you still have five guards - Kyrie, Green, Hardy, Seth, and Exum - who need to be fed. I think THJ's trade value stays level, rather than increasing, if he can't get playing time.

3) If the Mavs acquire Capela, Holmes is the backup, Lively gets developmental minutes, and Powell very hopefully waves a mean towel. Nice to have a real starter, but keep in mind as well that this a) nukes our spacing on O, since Clint can't shoot, and b) it also destroys the ability to elevate Holmes's trade value. Things to think about.

Nico was here when they decided not to offer Brunson max extension two offseasons ago and he was here when they let Brunson walk.  I would say he had a hand in the hand he was dealt.  

Timmy is better than Seth and very likely better than Exum.  It makes sense to pay 4 mil for Seth and hope for Hardy improvement instead of 18 on Timmy, but if they can't find the right deal, it won't be Tim losing minutes.

I don't think any of our centers do much for spacing except for Maxi.  I agree on the Holmes front.  Trading for Capela would tank Holmes potential value, but who knows how much that is right now.

[cow]

I would say he had a hand in the hand he was dealt.  

Somewhat agreed but I think he inherited most of the damage and mismanagement of the Brunson situation.  Combo that with the shrewd maneuvering by New York and I'm not sure Nico could have changed the tide, even with a max deal (pure speculation on my part).  What I do fault Nico for is not even getting a conversation with Brunson when free agency started.  Nico is supposed to be a relationship guy so Brunson not even willing to entertain a conversation hurt my overall impression of our new GM.

[KillerLeft]

Look, I think there’s a chance that THJ still gets traded.

But, if he doesn’t, he’s going to PLAY. Powell is going to PLAY. They are both good players who know the lay of the land here. They’re not getting pushed out of the rotation, sorry.

I’m as hopeful as anyone else about what Richaun Holmes can do, but I really think we should place our expectations more around the “plays more than Bertans did” level.

It’s going to be tough sledding around here in October/November. I can tell already.

[KillerLeft]

Get ready for a lot of this in the coming weeks, along with some “maybe Holmes was the guy they wanted all along.”

https://twitter.com/mikelikessports/status/1682026526957527040?s=61&t=Zmns3TEXDYnIJIXeN05-eQ

I agree with this, a little. 

At the end of the day, THIS season will be about Powell and Kleber again (not as bad as people are pretending, if they’re healthy). But, there’s center help coming in the form of Lively. Just a matter of when.

[dirkfansince1998]

Get ready for a lot of this in the coming weeks, along with some “maybe Holmes was the guy they wanted all along.”

https://twitter.com/mikelikessports/status/1682026526957527040?s=61&t=Zmns3TEXDYnIJIXeN05-eQ

I agree with this, a little. 

At the end of the day, THIS season will be about Powell and Kleber again (not as bad as people are pretending, if they’re healthy). But, there’s center help coming in the form of Lively. Just a matter of when.

Happy with the offseason but that´s the best way to make me forget about all the good stuff. They just have to own it.

[KillerLeft]

Happy with the offseason but that´s the best way to make me forget about all the good stuff. They just have to own it.

I don't follow, sorry. Can you clarify what you're saying by "they just have to own it"?

[dirkfansince1998]

I don't follow, sorry. Can you clarify what you're saying by "they just have to own it"?

If we can trust Nico, Stein and Cato they entered the offseason with the intention to find a legit starting center. If the end result is a rotation that features Powell/Holmes/Kleber/Lively they missed out. But it´s not the end of the world. Just say it how it is. They did not like any of the potential trades for bigger names like Capela or Ayton and decided to take another approach.

[mvossman]

Get ready for a lot of this in the coming weeks, along with some “maybe Holmes was the guy they wanted all along.”

https://twitter.com/mikelikessports/status/1682026526957527040?s=61&t=Zmns3TEXDYnIJIXeN05-eQ

I agree with this, a little. 

At the end of the day, THIS season will be about Powell and Kleber again (not as bad as people are pretending, if they’re healthy). But, there’s center help coming in the form of Lively. Just a matter of when.

To early to say this.  We don't know what we have in Holmes or how fast Lively will adjust.  I don't think they signed Powell to a 4 mil contract to start, and even if he does its very likely he get well under 20 minutes a game due to the (potential) depth at the position.  He hardly played at all those first couple of weeks to start last season and it took McGee completely pooping the bed to get him out there.  I don't know what we are getting from Holmes, but I bet its more than we got from McGee.

[KillerLeft]

If we can trust Nico, Stein and Cato they entered the offseason with the intention to find a legit starting center. If the end result is a rotation that features Powell/Holmes/Kleber/Lively they missed out. But it´s not the end of the world. Just say it how it is. They did not like any of the potential trades for bigger names like Capela or Ayton and decided to take another approach.

Doesn’t it seem like that’s the case? Exactly how you describe it? 

I think they believe Holmes/Lively gives them the leeway to avoid getting fleeced for a highly paid guy they probably won’t want in a year and a half, and that those guys are so highly paid they might be able to get one of them for a MUCH more favorable asset cost at some point soon. And, I think they might be right. Either they’ll get Capela (or someone else) on their terms, or they’ll get busy bridging the gap to Lively with Holmes/Powell. Since the latter path probably gets to the bottom of the Lively situation faster, I can’t even predict which route is better at this time. They both have merit, and your draft capital is secure and ready to grow for future use, either way.

Do you just mean you want them to SAY all that? I don’t think they will, but when they hype Holmes and tell us Lively is coming along quickly, that’s kind of like saying it, no?

---

I don't know what we are getting from Holmes, but I bet its more than we got from McGee.

Oh, I agree. To me, this is a LOWER hurdle than “plays more than Bertans.” I would be shocked if Holmes doesn’t give them more than McGee.

[Chicagojk]

To early to say this.  We don't know what we have in Holmes or how fast Lively will adjust.  I don't think they signed Powell to a 4 mil contract to start, and even if he does its very likely he get well under 20 minutes a game due to the (potential) depth at the position.  He hardly played at all those first couple of weeks to start last season and it took McGee completely pooping the bed to get him out there.  I don't know what we are getting from Holmes, but I bet its more than we got from McGee.

I tend to agree.  There was reports that Dallas wanted to make fundamental changes in the center position.   right now, we still haven’t.  Maybe a trade happens eventually.   But if none happens, I don’t believe the media talk that Powell starts.   Dallas wanted to upgrade Powell last offseason.   I don’t think that has changed.   Now, maybe he is still the short term best option, but even then I think they will look to get his minutes off the bench.  If not trade happens, I think Holmes starts (I hope he can still play) and Powell gets the backup minutes with Lively getting more and more of those minutes as the year goes on.   

If a center is traded for, I think Holmes gets first shot at the backup minutes and LIvely would get limited minutes with the hopes the following year he is ready for a 20-25 minute role.

[KillerLeft]

I tend to agree.  There was reports that Dallas wanted to make fundamental changes in the center position.   right now, we still haven’t.  Maybe a trade happens eventually.   But if none happens, I don’t believe the media talk that Powell starts.   Dallas wanted to upgrade Powell last offseason.   I don’t think that has changed.   Now, maybe he is still the short term best option, but even then I think they will look to get his minutes off the bench.  If not trade happens, I think Holmes starts (I hope he can still play) and Powell gets the backup minutes with Lively getting more and more of those minutes as the year goes on.   

If a center is traded for, I think Holmes gets first shot at the backup minutes and LIvely would get limited minutes with the hopes the following year he is ready for a 20-25 minute role.

Those same reports also said Powell wouldn’t be on the team. He is.

I have NO idea who will start at center on opening night, but I’m pretty confident that unless a trade happens, Powell will find his way there, eventually. Just like last year.

[cow]

They did not like any of the potential trades for bigger names like Capela or Ayton and decided to take another approach.

I think it is a pinch of what you are describing and a pinch of not making trade in a position of weakness that would result in an overpay.  In that regard, I'm encouraged by whatever iteration of the MBT this is.

-They know they don't want McGee
-They aren't sure what they have in Holmes but have some hope.
-They know what they have in Powell and now that he's on a much more reasonable number, we shouldn't have much of a problem with the player even if his role isn't ideal.
-Maxi is an injury concern and probably can't give you starters minutes in the regular season.
-Lively is going to take some time to adjust and earn minutes.
-Drummond didn't want to come here because he didn't want to be a 3rd or 5th wheel in a weak position group.
-The Suns turned down the Mavs trade offer for Ayton.
-The Mavs turned down Atlanta's draft night trade for Capela.

And that's just what we've heard of so it's safe to assume other tires have been kicked that didn't get reported on.

I think a lot of that tells us that management isn't happy with the state of our center rotation and they have made attempts to improve but aren't going to take the first deal that comes along.  I really appreciate the patience and restraint they've shown.  You probably can't remake this into a championship roster overnight.  Further, we have a long way to go until the trade deadline and there are Dame and Harden sized logjams right now that might be further limiting our options.

[dirkfansince1998]

Do you just mean you want them to SAY all that? I don’t think they will, but when they hype Holmes and tell us Lively is coming along quickly, that’s kind of like saying it, no?

Yes. I like Lively. I have no clue what Holmes has left in the tank. Still happy about the summer. But I think the usual over the top offseason hype is going to make it a lot harder for both. Don´t want to imagine how fans would react if Lively/Holmes are sold as the 23/24 starter only to be replaced by Powell a few weeks into the season.
I think in this case less pressure and reasonable expectations are the way to go. If only to avoid the usual hype --> high expectations --> backlash dynamic.