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[KillerLeft]

NFL teams playing more and more nickel formations. Strong safety position developing into some kind of hybrid safety/linebacker.

This is absolutely true, but you'd surely agree that it's MUCH easier to tell who's playing what position in that sport, even when new combinations of them are used creatively.

[dirkfansince1998]

This is absolutely true, but you'd surely agree that it's MUCH easier to tell who's playing what position in that sport, even when new combinations of them are used creatively.

Basketball has another dimension because of the two-way aspect.
Big advantage that makes it easier to spot things in football is that they are starting from set positions before the play. But if we have to apply traditional terms for the roles...Is a safety that plays close to the line of scrimmage still a safety? What about a linebacker that will always drop into coverage?

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...9619359744

[mvossman]

Fundamentally disagree with this.

"A complete disaster"? Come on. JB is leaving, but we don't even know the details of whether there is a sign and trade or not. JB had the childhood dream of playing for NYK. NYK tampered like crazy to make it happen. That's not on Nico. 

Also, the offseason isn't a disaster, it has barely started. McGee is signed. Hardy was drafted. Dragic not signing isn't a disaster because we don't know what is next. 

The offseason is an INCOMPLETE right now. So some people aren't jumping to conclusions with very little data. Let's talk once the roster is set, then we can grade the offseason.

So you can disagree with the statement "complete disaster", but it would be hard to argue it has not been disappointing since the Wood trade.  The fundamental point of this post was that Folks gave Nico credit for the Wood trade, but when they have shown clear distress over the following moves, the blame has almost entirely been placed on Cuban or the "FO".  Nico himself has not be mentioned at all.

I also think there is some wishful thinking regarding the offseason barely started.  We have already failed our top priority in retaining Brunson.  I don't expect much coming out of a potential S&T other than a TPE that we will never use.  We have already made our draft pick and we have already spent all of our available exception money.  All that is left is vet mins and potential trades (with very limited assets).  I know you have high hopes for monumental trades that will make sense of some of these questionable roster decisions, but count me as wildly skeptical.

[Jommybone]

Fundamentally disagree with this.

"A complete disaster"? Come on. JB is leaving, but we don't even know the details of whether there is a sign and trade or not. JB had the childhood dream of playing for NYK. NYK tampered like crazy to make it happen. That's not on Nico. 

Also, the offseason isn't a disaster, it has barely started. McGee is signed. Hardy was drafted. Dragic not signing isn't a disaster because we don't know what is next. 

The offseason is an INCOMPLETE right now. So some people aren't jumping to conclusions with very little data. Let's talk once the roster is set, then we can grade the offseason.

Agree in the sense that Golden State losing KD to Brooklyn wasn’t a COMPLETE disaster since they rescued D’Angelo Russell out of the deal, traded him for Wiggins, and developed Wiggins into a star. But still, THEY LOST KD!!!

Same goes here, even if Jalen is way short (pun intended) of KD status. This is a huge loss. Yes, there’s a salvage operation in the works that could give us a chance to make lemonade, but thems lemons we’re working with. No doubt about it.

[Mavsfan12]

Fundamentally disagree with this.

"A complete disaster"? Come on. JB is leaving, but we don't even know the details of whether there is a sign and trade or not. JB had the childhood dream of playing for NYK. NYK tampered like crazy to make it happen. That's not on Nico. 

Also, the offseason isn't a disaster, it has barely started. McGee is signed. Hardy was drafted. Dragic not signing isn't a disaster because we don't know what is next. 

The offseason is an INCOMPLETE right now. So some people aren't jumping to conclusions with very little data. Let's talk once the roster is set, then we can grade the offseason.

This is my take as well.  I think that the wood trade was BRILLIANT, that the draft night trade to snag Hardy was a very good move - possibly amazing, and that the McGee signing was a solid stroke that filled our glaring need.  JB leaving for nothing was disappointing, but he was an UFA and shit happens.  I think the damage was done earlier in the process.  The one thing that has me scratching my head is the Dragic situation.  So, yeah, incomplete pending what the Mavs do to address that situation and whether they can continue to turn some (MORE) ill fitting pieces into better ones via trade.  That said, if this were the end of moves, I would be pretty happy and ready to go for the season as a more balanced team.  Solid B so far.  If you think it was a disaster, you are being dramatic, imo.  Maybe just in a grief cycle.  I don't like losing an asset for nothing, but we also gained one out of almost thin air, so it balances out.  How many of us would have traded a pick just to remove all of those players off our roster with NOTHING coming back? Just to clear roster spots?

[Chicagojk]

Cuban likes bad tweets of people trashing Cuban for this offseason

Board Fantasy----  we have something lined up, we are getting KD

Board Reality-----  We sign a 26 year old to a two year contract

[cow]

...that the draft night trade to snag Hardy was a very good move - possibly amazing.

Beal 2.0 fell to the 2nd round and being drafted by the Mavericks, considering their drafting acumen, are pretty big red flags.  This could easily be another Ricky Ledo situation.  

I love the Wood move as we cleared four bodies that got no burn from our bench for a fallen angel.  Even if Wood is a rental, that's a solid double with the chance of being a home run.  McGee is great but I have my bias.

[mvossman]

This is my take as well.  I think that the wood trade was BRILLIANT, that the draft night trade to snag Hardy was a very good move - possibly amazing, and that the McGee signing was a solid stroke that filled our glaring need.  JB leaving for nothing was disappointing, but he was an UFA and shit happens.  I think the damage was done earlier in the process.  The one thing that has me scratching my head is the Dragic situation.  So, yeah, incomplete pending what the Mavs do to address that situation and whether they can continue to turn some (MORE) ill fitting pieces into better ones via trade.  That said, if this were the end of moves, I would be pretty happy and ready to go for the season as a more balanced team.  Solid B so far.  If you think it was a disaster, you are being dramatic, imo.  Maybe just in a grief cycle.  I don't like losing an asset for nothing, but we also gained one out of almost thin air, so it balances out.  How many of us would have traded a pick just to remove all of those players off our roster with NOTHING coming back? Just to clear roster spots?

We are definitely on different pages regarding this offseason.  If we do nothing else I would have a hard time giving it anything better than a D.  Our own FO set the bar making retaining Brunson their top priority, and they failed.  Wood might be decent replacement for Brunson, but there are some red flags that need to be navigated in order for that to be the case.  If he does turn out ok, then we are back where we were with Brunson regarding him potentially walking.  And he was not free.  He cost a first round pick.  I would be super pissed if we paid that pick just to dump expiring players that could all be waived.  That would be paying a first to avoid tax.

The Hardy pick was fine, but it is what it is, a mid second lotto pick that likely will turn into nothing.  Most folks on here were very disappointed when his name was called.

Not impressed with signing a mid 30s backup center to 3 guaranteed years well over the vet min.  There is a real good chance that contract becomes a negative asset within a season.

As of right now we have a gaping hole from a playmaking/creation standpoint.  If we are done it means we are going into the season with two players than can pass the ball and credibly run an offense.  We made this same mistake last offseason (another D for me) and didn't rectify it until a mid season trade that gutted our frontcourt depth.  It seems like we really struggle to maintain reasonable center and point guard depth at the same time.

[Mavsfan12]

Beal 2.0 fell to the 2nd round and being drafted by the Mavericks, considering their drafting acumen, are pretty big red flags.  This could easily be another Ricky Ledo situation.  

I love the Wood move as we cleared four bodies that got no burn from our bench for a fallen angel.  Even if Wood is a rental, that's a solid double with the chance of being a home run.  McGee is great but I have my bias.

Yeah, I like the move back into the draft on its own merits.  They had a guy rated highly and they went and got him.  That deserves praise.  Of course the move could be inconsequential if Hardy doesn't turn into a player.  But that is not the topic I was commenting on.  But if we are commenting on it, I think that kid has an incredibly high floor.  If nothing else, he is a cold knockdown spot up shooter with an NBA body.  That alone is worth the investment. If he never developed further than that, it would be a success.  That is why I put that it COULD be amazing... if he does develop as a creator/facilitator, and further if he can defend.  The last one is where I have my doubts - he was pretty bad in that dept.  But dude can shoot.

[soog]

Fundamentally disagree with this.

"A complete disaster"? Come on. JB is leaving, but we don't even know the details of whether there is a sign and trade or not. JB had the childhood dream of playing for NYK. NYK tampered like crazy to make it happen. That's not on Nico. 

Also, the offseason isn't a disaster, it has barely started. McGee is signed. Hardy was drafted. Dragic not signing isn't a disaster because we don't know what is next. 

The offseason is an INCOMPLETE right now. So some people aren't jumping to conclusions with very little data. Let's talk once the roster is set, then we can grade the offseason.

Gotta support this take. All of this whining about the offseason is really surprising to me.  That is why I started the thread with the poll asking people to assess the performance of the MBT. I was surprised that inspite of the constant negative rhetoric, Nico and his team received an overwhelmingly positive vote of approval.

Another point on JB is that he was lost partly because he was not an RFA, which is on Donnie. Nico showed with Hardy they were not going to make the same mistake as the previous regime.

I think it is more of a symptom of "same ol' fans" rather than "same ol' mavs".

[cow]

Yeah, I like the move back into the draft on its own merits.  They had a guy rated highly and they went and got him.  That deserves praise.  Of course the move could be inconsequential if Hardy doesn't turn into a player.  But that is not the topic I was commenting on.  But if we are commenting on it, I think that kid has an incredibly high floor.  If nothing else, he is a cold knockdown spot up shooter with an NBA body.  That alone is worth the investment. If he never developed further than that, it would be a success.  That is why I put that it COULD be amazing... if he does develop as a creator/facilitator, and further if he can defend.  The last one is where I have my doubts - he was pretty bad in that dept.  But dude can shoot.

His stroke is nice.  I think he could easily have a Seth Curry role on an NBA team with the potential of a lot more but like I said, lots of red flags.

---

Another point on JB is that he was lost partly because he was not an RFA, which is on Donnie. Nico showed with Hardy they were not going to make the same mistake as the previous regime.

JB is a disaster but that's not on Nico.  I've said it before but the hope was Nico and Kidd would be much better at the relationship game than Donnie and Carlisle while also overcoming some of Cuban's incompetence.  In not even being able to secure a meeting with JB's camp, fair or not, I do lose some of that hope.

[Mavsfan12]

We are definitely on different pages regarding this offseason.  If we do nothing else I would have a hard time giving it anything better than a D.  Our own FO set the bar making retaining Brunson their top priority, and they failed.  Wood might be decent replacement for Brunson, but there are some red flags that need to be navigated in order for that to be the case.  If he does turn out ok, then we are back where we were with Brunson regarding him potentially walking.  And he was not free.  He cost a first round pick.  I would be super pissed if we paid that pick just to dump expiring players that could all be waived.  That would be paying a first to avoid tax.

The Hardy pick was fine, but it is what it is, a mid second lotto pick that likely will turn into nothing.  Most folks on here were very disappointed when his name was called.

Not impressed with signing a mid 30s backup center to 3 guaranteed years well over the vet min.  There is a real good chance that contract becomes a negative asset within a season.

As of right now we have a gaping hole from a playmaking/creation standpoint.  If we are done it means we are going into the season with two players than can pass the ball and credibly run an offense.  We made this same mistake last offseason (another D for me) and didn't rectify it until a mid season trade that gutted our frontcourt depth.  It seems like we really struggle to maintain reasonable center and point guard depth at the same time.

If it was easy, everyone would do it.  haha.  

I understand your concerns, I just don't share them as fully as you do.  We don't have a "gaping hole".  I think we may have been spoiled a bit last season having 3 starting quality PG's on our roster.  That was insane depth that allowed us to do things that very few teams ever get to do.  

While I am hopeful that we can swing a deal or two to continue to improve, I think we are a better team today than when the season ended.  That earns a B from me.  FWIW, we would have it as an A- if we had done all of what we had and retained JB at the price he was signed for by NY.  Probably would have nudged it up a bit to B+ had we nabbed Dragic for Vet min.  If all we do is get a capable backup PG, that is probably where I would rate this offseason.  Improved, but not great.

[mvossman]

Gotta support this take. All of this whining about the offseason is really surprising to me.  That is why I started the thread with the poll asking people to assess the performance of the MBT. I was surprised that inspite of the constant negative rhetoric, Nico and his team received an overwhelmingly positive vote of approval.

Another point on JB is that he was lost partly because he was not an RFA, which is on Donnie. Nico showed with Hardy they were not going to make the same mistake as the previous regime.

I think it is more of a symptom of "same ol' fans" rather than "same ol' mavs".

I have not seen that thread.  It must not have been recent?  I think most folks could agree that the offseason started off great with the Wood trade, but has been disappointing since, particularly the Brunson loss.  The timing of that thread would probably have a lot to do with the tenor of the response.

And I call it like I see it.  I don't consider myself to be particularly pessimistic.  This FO has performed poorly for many years and this team would not be relevant at all if they had not made the one very good move to get Doncic.  I'm not one of those guys that said it was a lucky move or a no brainer.  I gave them a ton of credit for getting him when good organizations were ahead of us in the draft order (Suns, Hawks, Griz).  But in the years before and since, for every good move they make, it seems like they make 2 or 3 poor ones.

I'm not a fan of the derogatory term "Whining" when referring to a reasoned critique.  For the same reason I don't refer to (arguably overly) optimistic folks as "sunshine pumpers".  We can all have different opinions without being derogatory.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/NotJackKemp/status/1...0964319237

[mvossman]

If it was easy, everyone would do it.  haha.  

I understand your concerns, I just don't share them as fully as you do.  We don't have a "gaping hole".  I think we may have been spoiled a bit last season having 3 starting quality PG's on our roster.  That was insane depth that allowed us to do things that very few teams ever get to do.  

While I am hopeful that we can swing a deal or two to continue to improve, I think we are a better team today than when the season ended.  That earns a B from me.  FWIW, we would have it as an A- if we had done all of what we had and retained JB at the price he was signed for by NY.  Probably would have nudged it up a bit to B+ had we nabbed Dragic for Vet min.  If all we do is get a capable backup PG, that is probably where I would rate this offseason.  Improved, but not great.

We don't need 3 starting PGs, but we need a legitimate 3rd point guard and we don't have one on the roster.  Frank has shown himself not to be that, and I don't think you want to rely on a second round pick that struggled in the G league for that role.  The problem is exacerbated by the fact that none of our top seven guys could even be considered secondary playmakers.  For folks that would like to see this offense be a little less Luka centric, we have moved in the opposite direction.

I feel like thinking this team is better than last year is either really underselling Brunson, or expecting a whole lot from Wood or both.  I hope Luka has a healthy season, because this team will be a disaster when he is out.

[Kammrath]

https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2022/07...offseason/

[Scott41theMavs]

We don't need 3 starting PGs, but we need a legitimate 3rd point guard and we don't have one on the roster.  Frank has shown himself not to be that, and I don't think you want to rely on a second round pick that struggled in the G league for that role.  The problem is exacerbated by the fact that none of our top seven guys could even be considered secondary playmakers.  For folks that would like to see this offense be a little less Luka centric, we have moved in the opposite direction.

I feel like thinking this team is better than last year is either really underselling Brunson, or expecting a whole lot from Wood or both.  I hope Luka has a healthy season, because this team will be a disaster when he is out.

I think it's too early to do a post-mortem on this offseason yet. I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on most likely two if not three more moves.

If we're sitting here with this roster at the end of July, then I'm on board with your point. Having just two trustworthy PGs is pretty nightmarish. But the common sense side of me presumes that there's no way we're going into the season without addressing that concern, and perhaps one or two others.

[Smitty]

I think it is more of a symptom of "same ol' fans" rather than "same ol' mavs".

I have officially seen it all…

[soog]

I have not seen that thread.  It must not have been recent?  I think most folks could agree that the offseason started off great with the Wood trade, but has been disappointing since, particularly the Brunson loss.  The timing of that thread would probably have a lot to do with the tenor of the response.

And I call it like I see it.  I don't consider myself to be particularly pessimistic.  This FO has performed poorly for many years and this team would not be relevant at all if they had not made the one very good move to get Doncic.  I'm not one of those guys that said it was a lucky move or a no brainer.  I gave them a ton of credit for getting him when good organizations were ahead of us in the draft order (Suns, Hawks, Griz).  But in the years before and since, for every good move they make, it seems like they make 2 or 3 poor ones.

I'm not a fan of the derogatory term "Whining" when referring to a reasoned critique.  For the same reason I don't refer to (arguably overly) optimistic folks as "sunshine pumpers".  We can all have different opinions without being derogatory.

I posted it right after it was announced that JB was definitely signing with the knicks and not even meeting with the Mavs. It actually had 9 votes of approval versus 2 votes of disapproval, so very different from the tone of the board lately.
https://mavsboard.com/showthread.php?tid=2217

When I use the word "whining", I am not referring to the "reasoned critiques". I'm referring to the unreasoned critiques that seem to complain for complaining's sake.