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[IamDougieFresh]

4 (FOUR !!!) rotation-level bigs

Can we get rid of Dwight instead?

[mvossman]

Not to mention that losing Nash during the exact summer that the hand check rule was changed probably robbed this team of two additional championships, at least. Terry was great, and I was a bigger fan of his than most, but he was no Nash. And, like you say above, there isn't currently a Jason Terry rebound player in place this time around. Still time, but Beverly wouldn't qualify even as that in my book. 

Not that I wouldn't want Beverly, I would. Especially if it meant clearing out one of the 4 (FOUR !!!) rotation-level bigs.

The rebound player is Wood.  The timing of events made things more painful because we landed Wood before Brunson bailed.  But looking at the offseason as a whole, Wood is the primary replacement for Brunson.  He wont handle the playmaking part, but he should fill in most of the offensive void.  I know we both thought he would be part of the center rotation, but I am getting more and more open to the idea of him being primarily a 4.  It is definitely where he is best from a defensive standpoint.  It helps to think that most of those minutes are going to be with Maxi playing the 5.  

Just think about what our playoff closing lineup is going to be.  Luka running P&R and P&P with Wood, surrounded by shooters Maxi, Dorian and Din, with Din able to generate secondary action.  It will be the offense Kam has been fantasizing about with Collins.  The difference is Wood is going to have something neither he nor Collins have ever had, a Superstar point guard getting him the ball and a mobile, spacing center that can get out the way on offense and protect the rim on defense.  That is a lineup I think is worth getting excited about.

[KillerLeft]

I know we both thought he would be part of the center rotation, but I am getting more and more open to the idea of him being primarily a 4.

Well, there you go. I have zero interest in that. Zero. 

I like Wood, but I liked him a lot better when I thought he was being added to a team with Brunson. "Added."

[KillerLeft]

Can we get rid of Dwight instead?

If people think I'm being a drag, wait until the majority of this board realizes how much Powell is going to play this year.

[mvossman]

Well, there you go. I have zero interest in that. Zero. 

I like Wood, but I liked him a lot better when I thought he was being added to a team with Brunson. "Added."

You have no interest in seeing a Maxi/Wood pairing?

[KillerLeft]

You have no interest in seeing a Maxi/Wood pairing?

No, that would be fine, but to me that's Wood playing center. I suppose we could argue about that, but there's no point. We'd both be ok with the idea. 

I have zero interest in seeing Wood play even half of one minute with McGee or Powell on the court. Think we're likely to see them try that, probably with some stubbornness applied? Yeah. Me, too. 

If I was running a team, one of the first things I would write (in blood) on the white board in the war room is that we want a foot speed and conditioning advantage at literally every position, if at all humanly possible.

[IamDougieFresh]

If people think I'm being a drag, wait until the majority of this board realizes how much Powell is going to play this year.

If Powell is still here after the TDL the only dragging will be my nuts on Cuban's forehead.

[KillerLeft]

If Powell is still here after the TDL the only dragging will be my nuts on Cuban's forehead.

I think the plan with Powell is probably just to play him this year when he's needed and then let his money come off the books at season's end, lowering the team salary commitments. Sure hope I'm wrong. 

I know we like to pretend he's worthless around here, but he's not. He's a rotation-worthy player with a fairly large expiring contract who I suspect could be turned into an equal but better fitting player (possibly a slightly better one whose multi-year salary a team is wanting to shed) fairly easily. The fact that this hasn't happened yet leads me to believe they see value in keeping Powell, either to play him, let him expire (cutting future payroll) or both.

[IamDougieFresh]

I think the plan with Powell is probably just to play him this year when he's needed and then let his money come off the books at season's end, lowering the team salary commitments. Sure hope I'm wrong. 

I know we like to pretend he's worthless around here, but he's not. He's a rotation-worthy player with a fairly large expiring contract who I suspect could be turned into an equal but better fitting player (possibly a slightly better one whose multi-year salary a team is wanting to shed) fairly easily. The fact that this hasn't happened yet leads me to believe they see value in keeping Powell, either to play him, let him expire (cutting future payroll) or both.

Personally, a player who is unplayable in the playoffs has no value to me, but we don’t need to debate it. Maybe a bad team would like to use his one skill to try to gimmick offense their way into the play in or something, but bad teams generally don’t have a point guard who can get him wide open dunks.

I’m a glass half empty type of guy, but I am still holding a little bit of hope that maybe there is a plan that is waiting on a domino to fall or a recently traded player to become tradable. I’m ready to be let down again though.

[KillerLeft]

Personally, a player who is unplayable in the playoffs has no value to me, but we don’t need to debate it. Maybe a bad team would like to use his one skill to try to gimmick offense their way into the play in or something, but bad teams generally don’t have a point guard who can get him wide open dunks.

We don't need to, but I'll throw this out there for consideration:

One of the overwhelmingly negative critiques Suns fans have hurled at Monty Williams in the wake of the series upset is that he seemed dead-set on switching every screen, despite not having the personnel to make such a tactic viable. Care to guess why they went into the series with that mindset? I strongly suggest that the Luka/Powell pnr game was not only not a gimmick, but actually something so potent that it caused teams to game plan for it, even in ways that played away from their strengths. 

Now, it is undeniably true that once the switching defense is chosen, Powell's effectiveness takes a huge nose dive, and he did nothing in that series to punish the opponent for switching guards onto him. Sidebar: even if McGee is actually as good as Powell as a screen/roll guy (something that's being actively assumed around here but I don't think is a given) he will be just as worthless out there against a switching defense as Powell was, save a few more offensive rebound opportunities along the way. McGee will provide better defense at times in the paint, but you're probably giving up quite a bit in terms of your own switch-ability in order to get that. McGee's biggest offer of improvement will likely come on the defensive glass, but count me among those who didn't really feel that was a burning issue to begin with. When those big, important rebounds need to get grabbed, during close games down the stretch, he won't even be on the floor. 

I can definitely see the school of thought that Powell needed to be upgraded, but I'm not sure adding TWO more centers and losing the second best scorer/handler/creator on the team was what any of us had in mind (at least before it all happened). Personally, I'd have preferred another year of Powell (backing up Wood, minutes wise, regardless of who started) and adding another creator to a re-signed Brunson. I'd be raising my pom-poms higher than anyone here if they'd been able to do that. Even Brunson leaving would've stung way less if they'd just found a way to use that tpMLE to the effect of someone who could be played against any team in any situation. For me, it would've been worth watching one more year of Powell in his same old role to accomplish that. 

And...I still see no evidence of Powell being dropped completely out of the rotation anyway, although I was happy to hear that they won't be starting the season with two bigs out there at tipoff. That generates a little hope for me.

[Chicagojk]

I think the plan with Powell is probably just to play him this year when he's needed and then let his money come off the books at season's end, lowering the team salary commitments. Sure hope I'm wrong. 

I know we like to pretend he's worthless around here, but he's not. He's a rotation-worthy player with a fairly large expiring contract who I suspect could be turned into an equal but better fitting player (possibly a slightly better one whose multi-year salary a team is wanting to shed) fairly easily. The fact that this hasn't happened yet leads me to believe they see value in keeping Powell, either to play him, let him expire (cutting future payroll) or both.

I have said for a few years that I viewed Powell as similar to an innings eater pitcher in the regular season.   But I was really surprised how me was almost unplayable in the playoffs.  I thought for the second half of the year he was good...quite good at his role.   I was almost surprised how little I felt we were overmatched despite having two guys at Center who are not traditionally centers.  

I have never been a huge Powell fan.   Didn't dislike him either.  Although, I came around and thought he fit this team better than Maxi over the second half of the season.   That looks pretty bad now.  

So is Javale a big upgrade over Powell in the regular season?   My hope is he is close to Powell as a rim runner.  He may not be able to read things as well as Powell but he is bigger near the rim.    I think we all need to hope he is much better rebounding and defense than Powell.   Will he have the same issues as Powell in the playoffs though?

If Powell is back, I do wonder how he responds to a really rough playoff season.

[chaparral]

Maybe the Mavs should have offered the McGee deal to OPJ and signed a vet min C.  Would OPJ have taken 1mil less on the first two years and the 3rd yrs PO?  We could/can still sign Whiteside to a VM deal.

The offseason would have been Wood, Porter Jr, Whiteside and I still am baffled by the Dragic news.

[Chicagojk]

Maybe the Mavs should have offered the McGee deal to OPJ and signed a vet min C.  Would OPJ have taken 1mil less on the first two years and the 3rd yrs PO?  We could/can still sign Whiteside to a VM deal.

The offseason would have been Wood, Porter Jr, Whiteside and I still am baffled by the Dragic news.

That is interesting.  I just don't trust Porter's health.  He was signed by a team that typically knows what they are doing though.   Whiteside at times is a real factor when you play against him.  But it is hot and cold.   His teammates supposedely aren't big fans of his either.  With that being said, I do wonder where he winds up.   He could a nice bench player for a good team.   

For me, a lot will depend on what they do with the third creator, and how it compares vs signing Dragic.   I don't think my offseason grade will be higher than a B -.   Maybe it can get to a C + or b - if I feel like this player can get to 75% of Jalen's production that I envisioned entering last season while keeping flexibility moving forward.

[mvossman]

That is interesting.  I just don't trust Porter's health.  He was signed by a team that typically knows what they are doing though.   Whiteside at times is a real factor when you play against him.  But it is hot and cold.   His teammates supposedely aren't big fans of his either.  With that being said, I do wonder where he winds up.   He could a nice bench player for a good team.   

For me, a lot will depend on what they do with the third creator, and how it compares vs signing Dragic.   I don't think my offseason grade will be higher than a B -.   Maybe it can get to a C + or b - if I feel like this player can get to 75% of Jalen's production that I envisioned entering last season while keeping flexibility moving forward.

I don't see any way we are going to acquire somebody at this point that could get near 75% of Jalen's production.  Dragic would not have done that.  We would have to send out picks or a top 8 player to get there.  

My offseason grade is a D.  I would have gone up to C if they had signed Dragic, and if they manage to pull off Powell for Beverly swap it might be even a little higher, but I don't think he provides 75% of what we got from Brunson.  I'm fairly sure the only player we are going to add to the roster this offseason that can give you that is Wood.

[mvossman]

We don't need to, but I'll throw this out there for consideration:

One of the overwhelmingly negative critiques Suns fans have hurled at Monty Williams in the wake of the series upset is that he seemed dead-set on switching every screen, despite not having the personnel to make such a tactic viable. Care to guess why they went into the series with that mindset? I strongly suggest that the Luka/Powell pnr game was not only not a gimmick, but actually something so potent that it caused teams to game plan for it, even in ways that played away from their strengths. 

Now, it is undeniably true that once the switching defense is chosen, Powell's effectiveness takes a huge nose dive, and he did nothing in that series to punish the opponent for switching guards onto him. Sidebar: even if McGee is actually as good as Powell as a screen/roll guy (something that's being actively assumed around here but I don't think is a given) he will be just as worthless out there against a switching defense as Powell was, save a few more offensive rebound opportunities along the way. McGee will provide better defense at times in the paint, but you're probably giving up quite a bit in terms of your own switch-ability in order to get that. McGee's biggest offer of improvement will likely come on the defensive glass, but count me among those who didn't really feel that was a burning issue to begin with. When those big, important rebounds need to get grabbed, during close games down the stretch, he won't even be on the floor. 

I can definitely see the school of thought that Powell needed to be upgraded, but I'm not sure adding TWO more centers and losing the second best scorer/handler/creator on the team was what any of us had in mind (at least before it all happened). Personally, I'd have preferred another year of Powell (backing up Wood, minutes wise, regardless of who started) and adding another creator to a re-signed Brunson. I'd be raising my pom-poms higher than anyone here if they'd been able to do that. Even Brunson leaving would've stung way less if they'd just found a way to use that tpMLE to the effect of someone who could be played against any team in any situation. For me, it would've been worth watching one more year of Powell in his same old role to accomplish that. 

And...I still see no evidence of Powell being dropped completely out of the rotation anyway, although I was happy to hear that they won't be starting the season with two bigs out there at tipoff. That generates a little hope for me.

I think the biggest impact of McGee over Powell is paint defense, and its significant.  There are times when you want a switch heavy defense, which is what we will be throwing out there with Maxi/Wood, but there are also times when you need to protect the rim and not get bullied in the paint, and McGee is wildly more suited to that role than Powell.  I was not a huge fan of the signing (particularly the years) but it does mean we can put a rim protector out there most of the game.  Otherwise we would were going at least half a game without the ability to protect the rim, and I think that was a problem the second half of last season and particularly in the playoffs.

[IamDougieFresh]

We don't need to, but I'll throw this out there for consideration:

One of the overwhelmingly negative critiques Suns fans have hurled at Monty Williams in the wake of the series upset is that he seemed dead-set on switching every screen, despite not having the personnel to make such a tactic viable. Care to guess why they went into the series with that mindset? I strongly suggest that the Luka/Powell pnr game was not only not a gimmick, but actually something so potent that it caused teams to game plan for it, even in ways that played away from their strengths. 

Now, it is undeniably true that once the switching defense is chosen, Powell's effectiveness takes a huge nose dive, and he did nothing in that series to punish the opponent for switching guards onto him. Sidebar: even if McGee is actually as good as Powell as a screen/roll guy (something that's being actively assumed around here but I don't think is a given) he will be just as worthless out there against a switching defense as Powell was, save a few more offensive rebound opportunities along the way. McGee will provide better defense at times in the paint, but you're probably giving up quite a bit in terms of your own switch-ability in order to get that. McGee's biggest offer of improvement will likely come on the defensive glass, but count me among those who didn't really feel that was a burning issue to begin with. When those big, important rebounds need to get grabbed, during close games down the stretch, he won't even be on the floor. 

I can definitely see the school of thought that Powell needed to be upgraded, but I'm not sure adding TWO more centers and losing the second best scorer/handler/creator on the team was what any of us had in mind (at least before it all happened). Personally, I'd have preferred another year of Powell (backing up Wood, minutes wise, regardless of who started) and adding another creator to a re-signed Brunson. I'd be raising my pom-poms higher than anyone here if they'd been able to do that. Even Brunson leaving would've stung way less if they'd just found a way to use that tpMLE to the effect of someone who could be played against any team in any situation. For me, it would've been worth watching one more year of Powell in his same old role to accomplish that. 

And...I still see no evidence of Powell being dropped completely out of the rotation anyway, although I was happy to hear that they won't be starting the season with two bigs out there at tipoff. That generates a little hope for me.

In the words of the terrible Mark Jackson "with all due respect" I don't think any team is basing their defensive game plan around this guy.

   
 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Playoffs Series Table

								Totals																			Shooting				Per Game
Year	Age	Team	Lg	Round	W/L	Opp		G	W	L	MP	FG	FGA	3P	3PA	FT	FTA	ORB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		FG%	3P%	FT%		MP	PTS	TRB	AST
2015	23	DAL	2015	WC1	L (1-4)	HOU		2	0	2	3	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0		.000				1.3	0.0	0.5	0.5
2016	24	DAL	2016	WC1	L (1-4)	OKC		4	1	3	64	9	19	0	1	6	11	9	17	4	1	0	1	5	24		.474	.000	.545		16.0	6.0	4.3	1.0
2021	29	DAL	2021	WC1	L (3-4)	LAC		7	3	4	52	7	8	0	0	5	6	5	13	6	2	0	1	8	19		.875		.833		7.5	2.7	1.9	0.9
2022	30	DAL	2022	WC1	W (4-2)	UTA		6	4	2	106	10	18	0	2	5	8	8	22	3	1	3	5	17	25		.556	.000	.625		17.7	4.2	3.7	0.5
2022	30	DAL	2022	WCS	W (4-3)	PHO		7	4	3	94	9	12	0	0	6	10	4	15	1	1	3	4	19	24		.750		.600		13.4	3.4	2.1	0.1
2022	30	DAL	2022	WCF	L (1-4)	GSW		5	1	4	49	3	5	0	0	3	5	5	10	0	1	0	0	4	9		.600		.600		9.8	1.8	2.0	0.0
4 Years (6 Series)					2-4			31	13	18	368	38	63	0	3	25	40	31	78	15	6	6	11	54	101		.603	0	.625		11.9	3.3	2.5	0.5
4 WC1					1-3			19	8	11	225	26	46	0	3	16	25	22	53	14	4	3	7	31	68		.565	0	.640		11.8	3.6	2.8	0.7
1 WCS					1-0			7	4	3	94	9	12	0	0	6	10	4	15	1	1	3	4	19	24		.750		.600		13.4	3.4	2.1	0.1
1 WCF					0-1			5	1	4	49	3	5	0	0	3	5	5	10	0	1	0	0	4	9		.600		.600		9.8	1.8	2.0	0

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 8/7/2022.

"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)

[mvossman]

Maybe the Mavs should have offered the McGee deal to OPJ and signed a vet min C.  Would OPJ have taken 1mil less on the first two years and the 3rd yrs PO?  We could/can still sign Whiteside to a VM deal.

The offseason would have been Wood, Porter Jr, Whiteside and I still am baffled by the Dragic news.

If we are looking for an alternative to McGee with the tax MLE, I would have leaned towards Rubio.  That is somebody that might get close to 75% of Brunson production if healthy.  A Wood, Rubio, Whiteside offseason would have gotten a B from me, even after they flubbed the Brunson situation.

[chaparral]

That is interesting.  I just don't trust Porter's health.  He was signed by a team that typically knows what they are doing though.   Whiteside at times is a real factor when you play against him.  But it is hot and cold.   His teammates supposedely aren't big fans of his either.  With that being said, I do wonder where he winds up.   He could a nice bench player for a good team.   

For me, a lot will depend on what they do with the third creator, and how it compares vs signing Dragic.   I don't think my offseason grade will be higher than a B -.   Maybe it can get to a C + or b - if I feel like this player can get to 75% of Jalen's production that I envisioned entering last season while keeping flexibility moving forward.

If we end up moving Powell for a 3rd creator, we will still need an end of the bench C.

[IamDougieFresh]

If we end up moving Powell for a 3rd creator, we will still need an end of the bench C.

Why tho

[chaparral]

If we are looking for an alternative to McGee with the tax MLE, I would have leaned towards Rubio.  That is somebody that might get close to 75% of Brunson production if healthy.  A Wood, Rubio, Whiteside offseason would have gotten a B from me, even after they flubbed the Brunson situation.

Yes, I would have taken Rubio over Dragic.