AROUND the NBA: Jokic Wins 3rd MVP in 4 Years

[KillerLeft]

Garden’s about the money. Not the Morey.

For sure, but it actually does kind of seem like he was promised something last year when he signed that deal that wasn’t delivered. I mean, I get that his play was underwhelming last season, and it’s understandable that Morey has changed his mind, but still…bad look to promise and renege. Knowing Harden is all about his money makes that an even dumber gamble, in a way.

[Chicagojk]

Really interested to see how this plays out. Morey won’t move Harden unless he gets a deal he feels like he is the winner. He is also going to value Harden as a top 20 player…which he probably isn’t at any longer. Not sure how this plays out. Especially with a guy who has quit on two teams and has now made it known Philly is DOA.

I always thought there was maybe a broken promise. But on the other hand, shame on Harden for giving Morey the power by opting in. I thought after the initial trade talk quieted down that Morey would bring back Harden and play out the year. I believe with Harden and Harris expiring that Philly could have huge cap room next summer. I thought that was going to be Morey’s last ditch effort to build a team around Embid. The tricky part (besides how Harden takes this) is how Maxey responds. Philly has every right not to extend Maxey now. But there is also a personal piece in this. Maxey has earned an extension. If they are not having any conversations because Morey wants flexibility, than this could be something that causes bad feelings.

[DallasMaverick]

Really interested to see how this plays out.  Morey won’t move Harden unless he gets a deal he feels like he is the winner.  He is also going to value Harden as a top 20 player…which he probably isn’t at any longer.  Not sure how this plays out.  Especially with a guy who has quit on two teams and has now made it known Philly is DOA.

I always thought there was maybe a broken promise.  But on the other hand, shame on Harden for giving Morey the power by opting in.  I thought after the initial trade talk quieted down that Morey would bring back Harden and play out the year.  I believe with Harden and Harris expiring that Philly could have huge cap room next summer.  I thought that was going to be Morey’s last ditch effort to build a team around Embid.  The tricky part (besides how Harden takes this) is how Maxey responds.  Philly has every right not to extend Maxey now.  But there is also a personal piece in this.  Maxey has earned an extension.  If they are not having any conversations because Morey wants flexibility, than this could be something that causes bad feelings.

This is the new situation with superstar players.  

In the past, the player could choose either the biggest money (from their existing team), or their desired destination (but with lower dollars).

Now, they will sign the contract that gives them the highest dollars, but then demand a trade to their desired destination.  And if that trade isn't forthcoming, then play at about 60% effort - enough to continue to cash paychecks, but not enough to actually help their team.

Harden's a selfish player.

[Chicagojk]

This is the new situation with superstar players.  

In the past, the player could choose either the biggest money (from their existing team), or their desired destination (but with lower dollars).

Now, they will sign the contract that gives them the highest dollars, but then demand a trade to their desired destination.  And if that trade isn't forthcoming, then play at about 60% effort - enough to continue to cash paychecks, but not enough to actually help their team.

Harden's a selfish player.

 I like listening to Morey, but he is sort of gathering a reputation of not telling things straight.  That is part of the job but it is also a delicate balance.   I must say though I think he started believing his hype the last few years of the king of the nerds.   That has been a little off putting imo.    Also the comments about Harden being the best offensive player ever a few years ago was tiring.   

With that being said, If Harden sits out or dogs it that is a terrible look for the NBA.   He is still making 35 million.   If he has these feelings about Morey he should have opted out.   If there was no money for him in FA, maybe that should tell him something of what others think of him.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Morey may have very well reneged on a deal. But my thing is he's already in the best place to try to win a title. They took Boston to 7 and lost when he and Embiid didn't show up. If he were traded to the Clippers ( about the only team in the league that would take him) he's not winning one there. He has a better chance to come out the East as Boston and Milwaukee are the primary threats. It just shows me he's just about his money, and not dedicated to winning.

[omahen]

I doubt anyone will pay that for one year rental who will demand a huge contract in the summer (likely better for the team to let him walk than give him that contract). Which team would even consider that Harden is better than their elite player? Perhaps someone like Minny would consider they are better off with Harden instead of Towns on that monstrous contract. Of course Towns makes little sense on Philly.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...0344329216

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...6783653102

The Celtics say Kristaps Porzingis has been diagnosed with plantar fasciitis in his right foot and will engage in a four-to-six-week rehab program that rules him out of the
@FIBAWC
for Latvia. Porzingis is expected to be ready for the start of training camp.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...6783653102

They also said they aren't too concerned, so there's that.

[omahen]

Bleacher made their season over/under prediction. They put Mavs at 44.5, a jump from 38 wins they managed last season. They have 5 West teams (Denver, GSW, LAC, LAL, Memphis) higher than Mavs. Mavs are in a group of 5 teams (Sacramento, Minny, OKC, NOP) with same prediction.

I think the prediction is pretty realistic. All of the teams listed above had better result than Mavs last season and none of them could be considered as considerably worse after the summer. All of them kept their cores together. Denver and GSW lost some important role players, but they are also counting on development of their young guys. Just like Mavs. Of course things will go wrong, there will be injuries and other things that might impact results of some teams. But, that could also happen to Mavs.

I don't think Mavs added enough to be considered higher than where they put them. Unless some of the rookies really surprise us, most of the changes were actually at the bottom of rotation (spots 10-15). Mavs had many different starting fives, but we can say Powell, Irving and Luka were regular starters and it seems this will stay the same. The fourth spot was either Green or THJ (not counting Holiday episode), which will stay the same. Williams replaced Bullock in the starting five. Second unit we can say that Hardy, THJ and Maxi are same as last year. They have Holmes (or Lively) instead of Wood and someone (Exum, Curry, Omax or DJJ are possible candidates) instead of Holiday. Lets say he was in the top 10 rotation in the last part of the season. Bottom part of the team was changed more or less in full, with McGee the only guy left. These guys seem better on the paper than last year, which could help in games where guys from top10 part of rotation will be missing. But in general, these guys won't see much minutes.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1008...le-release

[Halfnir]

They have 5 West teams (Denver, GSW, LAC, LAL, Memphis) higher than Mavs. Mavs are in a group of 5 teams (Sacramento, Minny, OKC, NOP) with same prediction.

You forgot PHX. So basically, they rank the Mavs in Play-in territory, 7th-11th. 

I really hope the Mavs will be better this year, not necessarly by much in the win column but ranking wise and claim a certain playoff spot (4-6). I think at least 2 of LAC, LAL and GSW be worse than the Mavs in the regular season given their stars' availability problems.

[ItsGoTime]

We also know Mem will probably start off worse than they finish the season too with Ja out. Also don’t know why everyone slobbers over LAL, they should be on par with the group Dal is in.

[omahen]

We also know Mem will probably start off worse than they finish the season too with Ja out. Also don’t know why everyone slobbers over LAL, they should be on par with the group Dal is in.

I would have both teams you mentioned as a lock to finish above Mavs, unless some real big injuries happen.

Memphis didn't play any worse when Ja was out last season. They don't have Tyus Jones anymore, but Smart will probably also help in this area. I think Memphis are a great regular season team and I find it hard for them to finish below Mavs. 

Lakers were 16-9 after the Utah trade and their supporting cast is arguably better than it was last season.

[dirkfansince1998]

We also know Mem will probably start off worse than they finish the season too with Ja out. Also don’t know why everyone slobbers over LAL, they should be on par with the group Dal is in.

Looking at the last two seasons the Grizzlies are just as good or even better without Morant. Less flash more grit&grind.

[DanSchwartzgan]

 

I don't think Mavs added enough to be considered higher than where they put them. Unless some of the rookies really surprise us, most of the changes were actually at the bottom of rotation (spots 10-15).  

I guess it depends on the starting point you select.  In early January we spent the better part of two weeks in 3rd in the west.  Prior to the trade, we were 0-7 in games Luka missed.  After the trade, we were 5-3 (excluding the tank game to end the season).  Luka is going to miss some games, so that is a significant development.

Irving replaced Dinwiddie from that 3rd place team.

GWill replaced DFS from that 3rd place team.

One of those is a massive upgrade and the other is TBD.  We also moved on from negative on/court players like Wood, Reggie and Bertans (not to mention the 1,450 minutes played by McGee, Wright, Pinson, Holiday and Kemba). 

A positive on/court player like Green will get a bigger role, but after that it is just supposition to say we know what Curry, DJJ, Exum, Hardy, the Rookies and Holmes will give us.  We hope Powell and THJ don't backslide and that Maxi returns to his historic form.   One can make whatever positive or negative case they want, but the truth is we just don't know. 

BUT, and this is important, all of those unknowns don't have to be great.  They just have to contribute more to winning than Wood, Reggie, Bertans and the 1,450 minutes of end-of-roster trash from last season.  It is a SUPER LOW bar to achieve.

[ItsGoTime]

I would have both teams you mentioned as a lock to finish above Mavs, unless some real big injuries happen.

Memphis didn't play any worse when Ja was out last season. They don't have Tyus Jones anymore, but Smart will probably also help in this area. I think Memphis are a great regular season team and I find it hard for them to finish below Mavs. 

Lakers were 16-9 after the Utah trade and their supporting cast is arguably better than it was last season.

Ok, sure, I think with this being a longer term suspension there is a bit of difference (but I also understand I may be wrong). A team can rally around injury, suspension is different. LAL being healthy during a great run can happen too, those trades shot life into a lifeless group. I don’t think it’s sustainable at all. Lebron is a year older and just because AD gets an extension doesn’t all of a sudden make his body better able to not get injured.

[mvossman]

I guess it depends on the starting point you select.  In early January we spent the better part of two weeks in 3rd in the west.  Prior to the trade, we were 0-7 in games Luka missed.  After the trade, we were 5-3 (excluding the tank game to end the season).  Luka is going to miss some games, so that is a significant development.

Irving replaced Dinwiddie from that 3rd place team.

GWill replaced DFS from that 3rd place team.

One of those is a massive upgrade and the other is TBD.  We also moved on from negative on/court players like Wood, Reggie and Bertans (not to mention the 1,450 minutes played by McGee, Wright, Pinson, Holiday and Kemba). 

A positive on/court player like Green will get a bigger role, but after that it is just supposition to say we know what Curry, DJJ, Exum, Hardy, the Rookies and Holmes will give us.  We hope Powell and THJ don't backslide and that Maxi returns to his historic form.   One can make whatever positive or negative case they want, but the truth is we just don't know. 

BUT, and this is important, all of those unknowns don't have to be great.  They just have to contribute more to winning than Wood, Reggie, Bertans and the 1,450 minutes of end-of-roster trash from last season.  It is a SUPER LOW bar to achieve.

In a similar vein, I like comparing this roster to what we had after the KP trade when we made the WCF run.

Luka        => Luka
Brunson   => Kyrie
Dorian     => Williams
Din         => THJ/Hardy/Curry
Bullock    => Green
Maxi       => Maxi
Powell     => Powell
Green     => Exum

The biggest issue with that team was the massive lack of depth in the front court, where this team has Holmes/Lively/Omax/DJJ.

[Reunion Mav]

I guess it depends on the starting point you select.  In early January we spent the better part of two weeks in 3rd in the west.  Prior to the trade, we were 0-7 in games Luka missed.  After the trade, we were 5-3 (excluding the tank game to end the season).  Luka is going to miss some games, so that is a significant development.

Irving replaced Dinwiddie from that 3rd place team.

GWill replaced DFS from that 3rd place team.

One of those is a massive upgrade and the other is TBD.  We also moved on from negative on/court players like Wood, Reggie and Bertans (not to mention the 1,450 minutes played by McGee, Wright, Pinson, Holiday and Kemba). 

A positive on/court player like Green will get a bigger role, but after that it is just supposition to say we know what Curry, DJJ, Exum, Hardy, the Rookies and Holmes will give us.  We hope Powell and THJ don't backslide and that Maxi returns to his historic form.   One can make whatever positive or negative case they want, but the truth is we just don't know. 

BUT, and this is important, all of those unknowns don't have to be great.  They just have to contribute more to winning than Wood, Reggie, Bertans and the 1,450 minutes of end-of-roster trash from last season.  It is a SUPER LOW bar to achieve.

Excellent points about the end of the bench. I think Bertans in particular will be a big net positive by his absence. He really hurt us by missing seemingly every time he had a potential momentum changing shot. He tried on defense but… we won’t miss his defense. 

Who is going to make the shots our extremely good point guards create and what type of shots those turn out to be will be an interesting work in progress. Getting some combinations of our new defenders to play good team and individual defense together will also be a work in progress. How many extra games we lose on the way to getting there in these areas will have a lot to do with our playoff seed. 

Last year we expected to much after our WCF appearance. This year we expect to little because we created a huge hole when we acquired Kyrie and then tanked very well judging by the resulting draft. 

We sure seem to be on a good path. I will be watching with great interest patience and hope. Our improved set guys have huge opportunities before them all the way up to Luka.

[KillerLeft]

I guess it depends on the starting point you select.  In early January we spent the better part of two weeks in 3rd in the west.  Prior to the trade, we were 0-7 in games Luka missed.  After the trade, we were 5-3 (excluding the tank game to end the season).  Luka is going to miss some games, so that is a significant development.

Irving replaced Dinwiddie from that 3rd place team.

GWill replaced DFS from that 3rd place team.

One of those is a massive upgrade and the other is TBD.  We also moved on from negative on/court players like Wood, Reggie and Bertans (not to mention the 1,450 minutes played by McGee, Wright, Pinson, Holiday and Kemba). 

A positive on/court player like Green will get a bigger role, but after that it is just supposition to say we know what Curry, DJJ, Exum, Hardy, the Rookies and Holmes will give us.  We hope Powell and THJ don't backslide and that Maxi returns to his historic form.   One can make whatever positive or negative case they want, but the truth is we just don't know. 

BUT, and this is important, all of those unknowns don't have to be great.  They just have to contribute more to winning than Wood, Reggie, Bertans and the 1,450 minutes of end-of-roster trash from last season.  It is a SUPER LOW bar to achieve.

Agree with all of this, and I'd like to pile on some more context. 

I just rewatched the entire playoff run from the year before last, and REALLY, what we should be talking about here is: can Irving reach the level with this team that Brunson attained, both on the court and (my confident speculation) in the locker room? I promise that if anyone takes the time to rewatch those games, they'll come away realizing they'd minimized Brunson's contributions a least a little in time and memory. I'm one of his biggest fans here, and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked back then. He literally outplayed the other teams' best players on a semi-regular basis during that run. 

So, can Kyrie Irving have that type of impact here? I don't think we know yet, but there is definitely reason to hope so. If he can, I can see them reaching a similar level to that playoff team at some point this season, and I can see it seeming in hindsight like we should've known they'd be a top-4 team all along. They basically messed up the Brunson situation and had to take a mulligan on an entire season trying to fix that mistake. If they were successful, we might be in for a treat. 

Luka's conditioning and general outlook on the season will play a huge part, too. I know he put up huge numbers last season, but when you look at his efficiency in the clutch portions of all those close games they lost (which were mostly wins the prior season) I think it's pretty clear last year was sort of a delayed "sophomore wall" from him.

[mvossman]

Agree with all of this, and I'd like to pile on some more context. 

I just rewatched the entire playoff run from the year before last, and REALLY, what we should be talking about here is: can Irving reach the level with this team that Brunson attained, both on the court and (my confident speculation) in the locker room? I promise that if anyone takes the time to rewatch those games, they'll come away realizing they'd minimized Brunson's contributions a least a little in time and memory. I'm one of his biggest fans here, and I was SHOCKED at how great he looked back then. He literally outplayed the other teams' best players on a semi-regular basis during that run. 

So, can Kyrie Irving have that type of impact here? I don't think we know yet, but there is definitely reason to hope so. If he can, I can see them reaching a similar level to that playoff team at some point this season, and I can see it seeming in hindsight like we should've known they'd be a top-4 team all along. They basically messed up the Brunson situation and had to take a mulligan on an entire season trying to fix that mistake. If they were successful, we might be in for a treat. 

Luka's conditioning and general outlook on the season will play a huge part, too. I know he put up huge numbers last season, but when you look at his efficiency in the clutch portions of all those close games they lost (which were mostly wins the prior season) I think it's pretty clear last year was sort of a delayed "sophomore wall" from him.

Agreed.  We have a lot of what ifs regarding our depth, but the most important what ifs are how our two superstars play together.

[KillerLeft]

Agreed.  We have a lot of what ifs regarding our depth, but the most important what ifs are how our two superstars play together.

Yeah, I mean they didn't do anything but "my turn, your turn" last year (a level below what Luka and Brunson were doing the year prior) and the offense was STILL bananas. What if Luka + Kyrie + a new contract + a training camp = something BETTER than what Luka/Brunson were able to achieve? 

It's definitely wishful thinking, but not irrational wishful thinking. It's a plausible "what if" imho.