AROUND the NBA: Amazon & NBA Have Deal for Broadcast Rights| Dame Hurt

[HoosierDaddyKid]

This Denver vs Portland game is fiyah. The West is wide open.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

This Denver vs Portland game is fiyah. The West is wide open.

Those last few minutes were wild. Thought Denver was about to go back to back with devastating ending.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://twitter.com/ESPN1000/status/1600618977134256141

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.dirt.com/gallery/athletes/ba...amed-file/

[SleepingHero]

This Denver vs Portland game is fiyah. The West is wide open.

Dame's almost-game-winning three went to waste. 

He's one of the few guys that I know when it's a 1 point game and the clock is running down, he's going to hit the shot.

[Chicagojk]

I am really worried about this big trade for a second star that Dallas appears to be heading towards.   It looks good on paper.  But is ATL in any better position after their trade for Murray moving forward?   Is Minny any better for the future after their trade for Gobert?   I think you can say Clev is better positioned now with Mitchell.   

It just seems like these trades typically win the week in press clippings but the long term sustainability is very up in the air.  They also tend to zap you of any flexibility moving forward as well.

[SleepingHero]

I am really worried about this big trade for a second star that Dallas appears to be heading towards.   It looks good on paper.  But is ATL in any better position after their trade for Murray moving forward?   Is Minny any better for the future after their trade for Gobert?   I think you can say Clev is better positioned now with Mitchell.   

It just seems like these trades typically win the week in press clippings but the long term sustainability is very up in the air.  They also tend to zap you of any flexibility moving forward as well.

I counter with have the Mavs (read Cuban) ever capitalized on future flexibility? Have they even ever had that for a significant stretch of time?

I feel like the Mavs have chosen option C for the last 4 years, which is no future flexibility and no 2nd star. 

I'd rather get the talent first and figure out the rest later at this point.

[ItsGoTime]

I counter with have the Mavs (read Cuban) ever capitalized on future flexibility? Have they even ever had that for a significant stretch of time?

I feel like the Mavs have chosen option C for the last 4 years, which is no future flexibility and no 2nd star. 

I'd rather get the talent first and figure out the rest later at this point.

Add to this, as far as Atl. They have Murray to fall back on if they decide to trade Young for a huge package. Now, I myself want 2 players with the draft capital we will have this offseason, not 1 big one. 2 guys that supplant 2 current starters would be huge for this team.

[mvossman]

I am really worried about this big trade for a second star that Dallas appears to be heading towards.   It looks good on paper.  But is ATL in any better position after their trade for Murray moving forward?   Is Minny any better for the future after their trade for Gobert?   I think you can say Clev is better positioned now with Mitchell.   

It just seems like these trades typically win the week in press clippings but the long term sustainability is very up in the air.  They also tend to zap you of any flexibility moving forward as well.

It definitely has to be the right player.  We already saw that with KP.  To my eye the Gobert trade looked bad from the start and the Mitchell trade looked good (I would rather he went to NY).  I think the Murray trade made a lot of sense, but Bogdan has been out all year and Collins has sucked.  Trae is also a lot harder to build around than Luka.  I think the move was necessary if they want any chance to contend with Trae.

I also agree with the post above that it might make more sense to split the picks.  Boston got Brogdon and White each for a first.  I would have been very happy to make one of those deals.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I am really worried about this big trade for a second star that Dallas appears to be heading towards.   It looks good on paper.  But is ATL in any better position after their trade for Murray moving forward?   Is Minny any better for the future after their trade for Gobert?   I think you can say Clev is better positioned now with Mitchell.   

It just seems like these trades typically win the week in press clippings but the long term sustainability is very up in the air.  They also tend to zap you of any flexibility moving forward as well.

I think there is also reason to question how much usage the 'second star' type is going to get with Luka.  I wonder if we'd be better off trying to find a Jarrett Allen type trade instead of the next Donovan Mitchell trade.  The former requires giving up a pick in my mind.  It also probably blocks the path to a Top 30 type guy anytime soon.  It also requires being smart enough to know that the guy you are paying (and will have to pay again soon after acquiring him) is going to fit your scheme and culture.  

I'd be in favor of giving up a first now to get that guy, even if he isn't a top 30 type, as long as he's a long term solution and not a 30+ year old rental.  The question then is what hole do we most need to fill?

1. People often jump to the need for the third guard (the Dinwiddie replacement assuming you slot Dinwiddie as the Brunson replacement).  I'm not overly concerned with this slot long term (and that is what I'm thinking here, not just the rest of the season).  We have Hardy waiting in the wings.  He can certainly be a second creator (mainly for himself) when one of Luka or SD is sitting (maybe as soon as next season).  I'm not calling him a primary ball handler, but he can make the Luka w/o SD and SD w/o Luka minutes work.  You also have Green who is now playing that same role.  He's starting to get some actions to put the ball in his hands besides just the times he drives against a closeout.  Early returns look good.  If you believe in Green and Hardy taking some of this role, then the third point guard you is probably in the 11-15 part of the rotation and only costs the TP-MLE or less.

2. People next jump to the need for a 2-way wing.  The idea is to upgrade someone from from among DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock.  
2-way wings who are good are among the rarest and most highly paid players in the league.  Heck, some one-way wings cost a lot. You probably have two of these guys covered moving forward in DFS and Green.  The question is how much of an upgrade you'll be able to pull off over and above what THJ provides and at what cost.  I'm not sure we need all four of DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock once Hardy works his way into solid rotation minutes.  The way I see the Ball handlers and Wings is Ball handlers:  Luka/SD/Hardy (not primary, secondary next to a primary).  Wings:  DFS/Green/THJ.  I think SD and THJ are the weaker links, but upgrading either would be SUPER expensive.  Is that really our biggest long term hole?

3.  I, and the rumor mill, think the big need is a big.  I want a starter.  I'd probably prioritize mobility over a big plodding rebounder.  It would be really nice if they could shoot from deep also (so, a unicorn).  I want to keep Wood next year in a super sub role and need someone besides Maxi who can play next to Wood and make Kidd happy (even if it continues to piss off Killer).  Imagine what things might look like if we had basically 'another Maxi', but this one was younger and could play a full slate of minutes.  Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.  But like that elusive '2-way Wing Player", this archetype is also hard to come by.  So, rounding out the 9 man rotation from what was listed above:  Starter in place of Powell/Maxi/Wood.  I really like keeping Powell around as a 4th big, but recognize his expiring contract may have to go out in such a deal assuming the other team doesn't want McGee.

I tend to agree with IGT's post above.  One and certainly Two top 60 types would probably do us much more good than one top 30 type...especially if you see further development on the horizon for Green and Hardy.  The greatest marginal spread over what we currently have probably comes at the C position.  Yeah, there are players out there who are better than Dinwiddie and THJ.  But the cost for those guys versus the net gain in overall production is a questionable investment.  But, I think pretty clearly getting a new Player X at the starting C position would be a big help.  We really only have one defender in the starting lineup right now since THJ joined the group.  Probably the biggest thing Player X needs to do is make the rest of that lineup work.  I feel pretty good about what I think we are going to get from Maxi/Wood/Green with a PG.  I'm less confident in Powell/DFS/THJ/Dinwiddie with Luka to start halves unless we can improve upon Powell's D.  I get that we could move THJ back to the bench, but for now, he seems to be opening things up for the starters and the combo of him, Wood and Dinwiddie was not working.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...9087074305

[mvossman]

I think there is also reason to question how much usage the 'second star' type is going to get with Luka.  I wonder if we'd be better off trying to find a Jarrett Allen type trade instead of the next Donovan Mitchell trade.  The former requires giving up a pick in my mind.  It also probably blocks the path to a Top 30 type guy anytime soon.  It also requires being smart enough to know that the guy you are paying (and will have to pay again soon after acquiring him) is going to fit your scheme and culture.  

I'd be in favor of giving up a first now to get that guy, even if he isn't a top 30 type, as long as he's a long term solution and not a 30+ year old rental.  The question then is what hole do we most need to fill?

1. People often jump to the need for the third guard (the Dinwiddie replacement assuming you slot Dinwiddie as the Brunson replacement).  I'm not overly concerned with this slot long term (and that is what I'm thinking here, not just the rest of the season).  We have Hardy waiting in the wings.  He can certainly be a second creator (mainly for himself) when one of Luka or SD is sitting (maybe as soon as next season).  I'm not calling him a primary ball handler, but he can make the Luka w/o SD and SD w/o Luka minutes work.  You also have Green who is now playing that same role.  He's starting to get some actions to put the ball in his hands besides just the times he drives against a closeout.  Early returns look good.  If you believe in Green and Hardy taking some of this role, then the third point guard you is probably in the 11-15 part of the rotation and only costs the TP-MLE or less.

2. People next jump to the need for a 2-way wing.  The idea is to upgrade someone from from among DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock.  
2-way wings who are good are among the rarest and most highly paid players in the league.  Heck, some one-way wings cost a lot. You probably have two of these guys covered moving forward in DFS and Green.  The question is how much of an upgrade you'll be able to pull off over and above what THJ provides and at what cost.  I'm not sure we need all four of DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock once Hardy works his way into solid rotation minutes.  The way I see the Ball handlers and Wings is Ball handlers:  Luka/SD/Hardy (not primary, secondary next to a primary).  Wings:  DFS/Green/THJ.  I think SD and THJ are the weaker links, but upgrading either would be SUPER expensive.  Is that really our biggest long term hole?

3.  I, and the rumor mill, think the big need is a big.  I want a starter.  I'd probably prioritize mobility over a big plodding rebounder.  It would be really nice if they could shoot from deep also (so, a unicorn).  I want to keep Wood next year in a super sub role and need someone besides Maxi who can play next to Wood and make Kidd happy (even if it continues to piss off Killer).  Imagine what things might look like if we had basically 'another Maxi', but this one was younger and could play a full slate of minutes.  Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.  But like that elusive '2-way Wing Player", this archetype is also hard to come by.  So, rounding out the 9 man rotation from what was listed above:  Starter in place of Powell/Maxi/Wood.  I really like keeping Powell around as a 4th big, but recognize his expiring contract may have to go out in such a deal assuming the other team doesn't want McGee.

I tend to agree with IGT's post above.  One and certainly Two top 60 types would probably do us much more good than one top 30 type...especially if you see further development on the horizon for Green and Hardy.  The greatest marginal spread over what we currently have probably comes at the C position.  Yeah, there are players out there who are better than Dinwiddie and THJ.  But the cost for those guys versus the net gain in overall production is a questionable investment.  But, I think pretty clearly getting a new Player X at the starting C position would be a big help.  We really only have one defender in the starting lineup right now since THJ joined the group.  Probably the biggest thing Player X needs to do is make the rest of that lineup work.  I feel pretty good about what I think we are going to get from Maxi/Wood/Green with a PG.  I'm less confident in Powell/DFS/THJ/Dinwiddie with Luka to start halves unless we can improve upon Powell's D.  I get that we could move THJ back to the bench, but for now, he seems to be opening things up for the starters and the combo of him, Wood and Dinwiddie was not working.

So the next question is, who is that center?  Can Collins play center on this team?  Does Poeltl make sense?  Is PJ Washington or Gafford good enough for that role?  Who else might be available that is a mobile legit starting center?

[Mikelorenzo]

I'd say M.Turner fits his description...he's a 2-way player (I think a must-have) and his expiring/rebuilding situation makes him maybe achievable for us...of course it also implies that you probably have to be willing to be very expensive and overpay him in FA, but acquiring it now would give us his bird rights.. My dream would be to acquire it by Bullock/Wood..

Wood HEAT

Oladipo/Turner/Korkmaz MAVS

Powell/Thybulle/Heat 23/Yurtseven PACERS

Bullock 76ERS..

in the low season, with our selections available.. Hardy/SD/Bertans+ 3 FRP for Lavine..?

Luka/Lavine/Green/DFS/Turner

[Chicagojk]

I'd say M.Turner fits his description...he's a 2-way player (I think a must-have) and his expiring/rebuilding situation makes him maybe achievable for us...of course it also implies that you probably have to be willing to be very expensive and overpay him in FA, but acquiring it now would give us his bird rights.. My dream would be to acquire it by Bullock/Wood..

Wood HEAT

Oladipo/Turner/Korkmaz MAVS

Powell/Thybulle/Heat 23/Yurtseven PACERS

Bullock 76ERS..

in the low season, with our selections available.. Hardy/SD/Bertans+ 3 FRP for Lavine..?

Luka/Lavine/Green/DFS/Turner

Turner is an interesting name.  He scares me to death watching him run.  Looks like an injury waiting to happen.  Although with the Pacers solid start and their low future cap issues, he is probably harder to get now than he has been in the past.   But he is a good name...if you believe in his health.  More importantly, what are your views on Hardy and Green.   If you view both as key contributors moving forward, then you may be more likely to give up the assets for Turner.

[KillerLeft]

PJ Washington

Yes, please!

---

Not sure he's available, but I like Nic Claxton a lot.

[chaparral]

I think there is also reason to question how much usage the 'second star' type is going to get with Luka.  I wonder if we'd be better off trying to find a Jarrett Allen type trade instead of the next Donovan Mitchell trade.  The former requires giving up a pick in my mind.  It also probably blocks the path to a Top 30 type guy anytime soon.  It also requires being smart enough to know that the guy you are paying (and will have to pay again soon after acquiring him) is going to fit your scheme and culture.  

I'd be in favor of giving up a first now to get that guy, even if he isn't a top 30 type, as long as he's a long term solution and not a 30+ year old rental.  The question then is what hole do we most need to fill?

1. People often jump to the need for the third guard (the Dinwiddie replacement assuming you slot Dinwiddie as the Brunson replacement).  I'm not overly concerned with this slot long term (and that is what I'm thinking here, not just the rest of the season).  We have Hardy waiting in the wings.  He can certainly be a second creator (mainly for himself) when one of Luka or SD is sitting (maybe as soon as next season).  I'm not calling him a primary ball handler, but he can make the Luka w/o SD and SD w/o Luka minutes work.  You also have Green who is now playing that same role.  He's starting to get some actions to put the ball in his hands besides just the times he drives against a closeout.  Early returns look good.  If you believe in Green and Hardy taking some of this role, then the third point guard you is probably in the 11-15 part of the rotation and only costs the TP-MLE or less.

2. People next jump to the need for a 2-way wing.  The idea is to upgrade someone from from among DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock.  
2-way wings who are good are among the rarest and most highly paid players in the league.  Heck, some one-way wings cost a lot. You probably have two of these guys covered moving forward in DFS and Green.  The question is how much of an upgrade you'll be able to pull off over and above what THJ provides and at what cost.  I'm not sure we need all four of DFS, Green, THJ and Bullock once Hardy works his way into solid rotation minutes.  The way I see the Ball handlers and Wings is Ball handlers:  Luka/SD/Hardy (not primary, secondary next to a primary).  Wings:  DFS/Green/THJ.  I think SD and THJ are the weaker links, but upgrading either would be SUPER expensive.  Is that really our biggest long term hole?

3.  I, and the rumor mill, think the big need is a big.  I want a starter.  I'd probably prioritize mobility over a big plodding rebounder.  It would be really nice if they could shoot from deep also (so, a unicorn).  I want to keep Wood next year in a super sub role and need someone besides Maxi who can play next to Wood and make Kidd happy (even if it continues to piss off Killer).  Imagine what things might look like if we had basically 'another Maxi', but this one was younger and could play a full slate of minutes.  Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.  But like that elusive '2-way Wing Player", this archetype is also hard to come by.  So, rounding out the 9 man rotation from what was listed above:  Starter in place of Powell/Maxi/Wood.  I really like keeping Powell around as a 4th big, but recognize his expiring contract may have to go out in such a deal assuming the other team doesn't want McGee.

I tend to agree with IGT's post above.  One and certainly Two top 60 types would probably do us much more good than one top 30 type...especially if you see further development on the horizon for Green and Hardy.  The greatest marginal spread over what we currently have probably comes at the C position.  Yeah, there are players out there who are better than Dinwiddie and THJ.  But the cost for those guys versus the net gain in overall production is a questionable investment.  But, I think pretty clearly getting a new Player X at the starting C position would be a big help.  We really only have one defender in the starting lineup right now since THJ joined the group.  Probably the biggest thing Player X needs to do is make the rest of that lineup work.  I feel pretty good about what I think we are going to get from Maxi/Wood/Green with a PG.  I'm less confident in Powell/DFS/THJ/Dinwiddie with Luka to start halves unless we can improve upon Powell's D.  I get that we could move THJ back to the bench, but for now, he seems to be opening things up for the starters and the combo of him, Wood and Dinwiddie was not working.

As usual, another great post...

Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.

Would any of these players fit the mold of another Maxi type player (age).  

Vucevic (32)

Nurkic (28)

Carter Jr. (23)

Stewart II (21)

Vanderbilt (23)

Markkanen (25)

Turner (26)

[HAguiar95]

As usual, another great post...

Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.

Would any of these players fit the mold of another Maxi type player (age).  

Vucevic (32)

Nurkic (28)

Carter Jr. (23)

Stewart II (21)

Vanderbilt (23)

Markkanen (25)

Turner (26)

I'd add Olynyk as a cheaper and preferable option given our assets.

[DanSchwartzgan]

As usual, another great post...

Another Maxi (mobile defensive big who can also hit 3's). really opens things up if they are indeed starter level.

Would any of these players fit the mold of another Maxi type player (age).  

Vucevic (32)

Nurkic (28)

Carter Jr. (23)

Stewart II (21)

Vanderbilt (23)

Markkanen (25)

Turner (26)

Thanks.  I'd probably add 26 year old Poeltl to the list and the aforementioned Claxton.  I wonder if there is a guy out there that scouts think will pop, but hasn't yet.  

I think you have to ask why the other team would do a deal like this.  The obvious for Turner, Vuc and Poeltl is they are free this summer.  Portland kind of needs Nurkic and if I'm Orlando, I don't give up Carter for a pick.  I don't know what to think of Utah, but Vanderbilt probably fits the mold defensively.  Like P.J. Washington and Collins, he's probably a little undersized to be a full time starting center.  The big bulky shot blocker/rebounder types can't move and don't hit 3's.  The mobile 3-point shooters don't tend to protect the paint well.  Its what makes Maxi special.

Part of me wonders if Dallas and SA are negotiating through the media on Poeltl.  There are reports that they want 2-firsts.  Now Dallas is suddenly showing up in rumors for other centers.  He doesn't fit the "another Maxi" mold exactly, but he's really good and impacts winning wherever he is.  I really like him if the deal is McGee and Frank and a first and we get him extended.  My biggest concern is what McGee says they did with him...square peg in a round hole...by trying to get him to play a style he doesn't thrive at.  I've not watched a ton of Poeltl, but I suspect he's more of a drop coverage guy.  What I have seen is that SA is better at both ends of the court when he plays.

To your point, if we can get that right guy (Poeltl or otherwise) and can retain Wood as a super-sub scorer off the bench and get continued growth from Green and Hardy, I like the following for 2023:

Bigs:  New Center/Maxi/Wood (I'd keep Powell at a reasonable rate as a deep backup)
Wings: DFS/Green/THJ (Bullock would have one more year as the fourth wing)
Creators:  Luka/Dinwiddie/Hardy (we probably need a veteran deep bench PG for those nights one of the top two are out).

I'm actually pretty happy with that and think it has a chance to be a very good team for several years as no one is really old.  I also like that I'm not giving up picks past the time I expect Luka to be here with certainty.  One of the holes in the trade multiple picks this summer scenario is if it doesn't work and he leaves, you still owe picks and don't have Luka raising the floor.

[ItsGoTime]

I’d love to swing Carter Jr and Stewart II somehow. They are the new and improved Maxi and Powell in my mind. Wanted both at their respective drafts. Not sure why anyone would want Vucevic. An old C that doesn’t play D? Hard pass. Unless he comes with Patrick Williams (even though he’s having a down year so far).

[mvossman]

Thanks.  I'd probably add 26 year old Poeltl to the list and the aforementioned Claxton.  I wonder if there is a guy out there that scouts think will pop, but hasn't yet.  

I think you have to ask why the other team would do a deal like this.  The obvious for Turner, Vuc and Poeltl is they are free this summer.  Portland kind of needs Nurkic and if I'm Orlando, I don't give up Carter for a pick.  I don't know what to think of Utah, but Vanderbilt probably fits the mold defensively.  Like P.J. Washington and Collins, he's probably a little undersized to be a full time starting center.  The big bulky shot blocker/rebounder types can't move and don't hit 3's.  The mobile 3-point shooters don't tend to protect the paint well.  Its what makes Maxi special.

Part of me wonders if Dallas and SA are negotiating through the media on Poeltl.  There are reports that they want 2-firsts.  Now Dallas is suddenly showing up in rumors for other centers.  He doesn't fit the "another Maxi" mold exactly, but he's really good and impacts winning wherever he is.  I really like him if the deal is McGee and Frank and a first and we get him extended.  My biggest concern is what McGee says they did with him...square peg in a round hole...by trying to get him to play a style he doesn't thrive at.  I've not watched a ton of Poeltl, but I suspect he's more of a drop coverage guy.  What I have seen is that SA is better at both ends of the court when he plays.

To your point, if we can get that right guy (Poeltl or otherwise) and can retain Wood as a super-sub scorer off the bench and get continued growth from Green and Hardy, I like the following for 2023:

Bigs:  New Center/Maxi/Wood (I'd keep Powell at a reasonable rate as a deep backup)
Wings: DFS/Green/THJ (Bullock would have one more year as the fourth wing)
Creators:  Luka/Dinwiddie/Hardy (we probably need a veteran deep bench PG for those nights one of the top two are out).

I'm actually pretty happy with that and think it has a chance to be a very good team for several years as no one is really old.  I also like that I'm not giving up picks past the time I expect Luka to be here with certainty.  One of the holes in the trade multiple picks this summer scenario is if it doesn't work and he leaves, you still owe picks and don't have Luka raising the floor.

What would we be sending out in a Poeltl trade?  Seems like the team your presenting is well above the tax.

After seeing what putting a drop coverage guy into a switch heavy defense did to McGee, I'm not excited about bringing in Poeltl if he is a drop coverage guy (and I expect you are correct in that regard) if that is what we are going to do.  Just another reason that McGee signing was dumb.