AROUND the NBA: Pat Bev Suspended 4 Games Next Season| PHX Fires Vogel

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I'm one of those dunces who believed they had no chance from the beginning, even if healthy, because 1) Pacers swept the regular season series against them, and 2) Rick against Doc is like a steamroller versus a grape.

The Bucks beat them 1 time during the season, but they are a bad transition defensive team. They're made to order for the Pacers who are 1st or 2nd in pace. They were bad on defense before Doc got there.

[Winter]

All-in.

Three superstars.

Interesting article recently about Booker being stranded in Phoenix with two redundant players in Beal and Durant while several new players are making an impact on teams with complimentary pieces (Doncic, Shai, and Edwards). 

I am heartened by Phoenix's lack of success. The idea of having three superstars and a bunch of minimum contracts as a team concept just doesn't sit well with me.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

OKC plays like a veteran team. They aren't going to be a easy out as some suspect because of their youth. They're on the verge of putting a veteran team like N.O. on the ropes with a 3-0 lead in the series.

[Winter]

OKC plays like a veteran team. They aren't going to be a easy out as some suspect because of their youth. They're on the verge of putting a veteran team like N.O. on the ropes with a 3-0 lead in the series.

I'm watching that too, and while I agree, let's just state the obvious - NO looks like a team that hasn't figured it out ... and knows it. They can't manage much defense and they look like misfit toys on offense. NO looks like a team that doesn't really believe in itself. I'm not sure I can make an evaluation on what playoff OKC would look like against playoff Mavs.

[MaxiThreeba]

I'm watching that too, and while I agree, let's just state the obvious - NO looks like a team that hasn't figured it out ... and knows it. They can't manage much defense and they look like misfit toys on offense. NO looks like a team that doesn't really believe in itself. I'm not sure I can make an evaluation on what playoff OKC would look like against playoff Mavs.

If the Mavs get by the Clippers, it would have been nice for Thunder/Pels to go 6-7 games.  The only benefit Mavs/Clippers will have now is that OKC still hasn’t played a playoff series based on how NO has played. 

That Thunder team would have to get in the mud to beat the Mavs.  Dort is the only guy in that rotation that plays with playoff physicality.  They are a small team that doesn’t play a physical brand of basketball.  

I will say I don’t think SGA is the key to beating OKC.  He isn’t nearly as scary without the ridiculous regular season whistle and is a two level scorer.  Williams is the real key.  He’s the toughest cover IMO.

[KillerLeft]

OKC plays like a veteran team. They aren't going to be an easy out as some suspect because of their youth. They're on the verge of putting a veteran team like N.O. on the ropes with a 3-0 lead in the series.

I might be way off, because I trust you are watching OKC more than I am right now, but I just don’t think the Mavs are a good matchup for them right now. 

Right now, the Mavs are trying to play faster, which I think is the right way to go, but against OKC, I feel like it will be really easy to slow things down and just relentlessly punish them in the half court. I also feel like Gafford and Lively are going to be more effective in that series than any other the Mavs have a chance to play this postseason.

Either way, I sure do hope we get the chance to find out!

[omahen]

The idea of having three superstars and a bunch of minimum contracts as a team concept just doesn't sit well with me.

But they are not that. Behind the big three they have:
- Nurkic at 17 mil (Dallas 4th highest paid guy basically same salary)
- O'Neale at 10 mil (Dal 12)
- Allen at 9 mil (Dal 11)
- Little at 6 mil (Dal 5)

Their problem is more in bad roster construction, especially with no point guard.

[KillerLeft]

But they are not that. Behind the big three they have:
- Nurkic at 17 mil (Dallas 4th highest paid guy basically same salary)
- O'Neale at 10 mil (Dal 12)
- Allen at 9 mil (Dal 11)
- Little at 6 mil (Dal 5)

Their problem is more in bad roster construction, especially with no point guard.

I’ll see your point and raise you:

Bradley Beal isn’t worth half of his current salary, and I’m not sure he’s a quality starter, let alone a star.

Durant is starting to fall off, not enough to make him less great as a scorer, but enough that his mentally soft weirdness is more noticeable than ever.

[Winter]

But they are not that. Behind the big three they have:
- Nurkic at 17 mil (Dallas 4th highest paid guy basically same salary)
- O'Neale at 10 mil (Dal 12)
- Allen at 9 mil (Dal 11)
- Little at 6 mil (Dal 5)

Their problem is more in bad roster construction, especially with no point guard.

I pretty much just said that (but without reference to the point guard). 

Yes, they have mid-salaried players, but they banked on being a good playoff team by having 3 fairly redundant players, two of which are probably beyond their prime, and a much cheaper rotational bench that was decent but not playoff material. The salaries of the roster are weighted heavily on 3 jump shooters, not to mention the cost in future picks. The Clippers did much the same thing, although with better construction. 

Only G. Allen turned into something special (and sucked up even more future salary now). Both Nurkic and Booker are having off years, and Beal has had significant injuries the last 5 years.

[Scott41theMavs]

I am heartened by Phoenix's lack of success. The idea of having three superstars and a bunch of minimum contracts as a team concept just doesn't sit well with me.

I am also heartened by Phoenix's lack of success, but for a different reason - I hate them.

They're going to be mediocre, and then really bad, for a long, long, long time because they mortgaged their future. That's good. The Western Conference was becoming way too competitive.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

If the Mavs get by the Clippers, it would have been nice for Thunder/Pels to go 6-7 games.  The only benefit Mavs/Clippers will have now is that OKC still hasn’t played a playoff series based on how NO has played. 

That Thunder team would have to get in the mud to beat the Mavs.  Dort is the only guy in that rotation that plays with playoff physicality.  They are a small team that doesn’t play a physical brand of basketball.  

I will say I don’t think SGA is the key to beating OKC.  He isn’t nearly as scary without the ridiculous regular season whistle and is a two level scorer.  Williams is the real key.  He’s the toughest cover IMO.

So you're going to totally dismiss Chet Holmgren?  He can play both ends of the floor. I get they aren't a big physical team, but they are fast and athletic. They won the season series vs Denver and Minnesota (both much bigger, physical teams) so I guess that doesn't mean nothing in the playoffs. J Will is probably they're best player besides SGA on both sides of the ball. Can't wait for the matchup vs either Dallas or the Clipps. All I'm saying is, don't get caught up in thinking their youth and inexperience is a disadvantage.

[Winter]

So you're going to totally dismiss Chet Holmgren?  He can play both ends of the floor.  I get they aren't a big physical team, but they are fast and athletic. They won the season series vs Denver and Minnesota (both much bigger, physical teams) so I guess that doesn't mean nothing in the playoffs. J Will is probably they're best player besides SGA on both sides of the ball. Can't wait for the matchup vs either Dallas or the Clipps. All I'm saying is, don't get caught up in thinking their youth and inexperience is a disadvantage.

They will be a handful, because they've all bought into the team concept. They are a real "team" in all the right ways.

Dallas, Denver, OKC and Boston I think are the teams that have bought into a system, have the talent, and look more than their individual parts. I'm not sure the Mavs can get past those teams this year, but I think they'll get picked to be a top 5 team next year if they can get past the Clippers.

[surfpuckmd]

So you're going to totally dismiss Chet Holmgren?  He can play both ends of the floor.  I get they aren't a big physical team, but they are fast and athletic. They won the season series vs Denver and Minnesota (both much bigger, physical teams) so I guess that doesn't mean nothing in the playoffs. J Will is probably they're best player besides SGA on both sides of the ball. Can't wait for the matchup vs either Dallas or the Clipps. All I'm saying is, don't get caught up in thinking their youth and inexperience is a disadvantage.

Agreed.  They're a terrific team and they play really smart basketball on both sides.  They have three great two-way players with SGA, JWill and Chet.  They have great role players as well with Lu Dort, Isaiah Joe and Cason Wallace.  They're also really fun to watch.

The Mavs could beat them in a 7-game series but a lot of people are underrating them.  They would be the favorites in that series.  They are better coached and organized and we would have some trouble matching their quickness.  

I would really enjoy that series and I greatly hope the Mavs get that opportunity.

[omahen]

I’ll see your point and raise you:

Bradley Beal isn’t worth half of his current salary, and I’m not sure he’s a quality starter, let alone a star.

Durant is starting to fall off, not enough to make him less great as a scorer, but enough that his mentally soft weirdness is more noticeable than ever.

Agree with all of that. I was just saying they don't have 3 stars on max deals and then just vet min players. They have plenty of salary behind their max guys. Their problem is bad roster construction.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Lakers avoid the embarrassing thought of being swept back to back by the Nuggets.

[DallasMaverick]

Agree with all of that. I was just saying they don't have 3 stars on max deals and then just vet min players. They have plenty of salary behind their max guys. Their problem is bad roster construction.

…and the 3rd-highest payroll in the NBA, with no relief in sight over the next couple of years, resulting in very little flexibility to add players or put together creative trades under the new CBA.

Their “all-in” moves failed, and they’re mired in mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/

[DallasMaverick]

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/

Alright, here’s a question:

Who’s getting a good return on their payroll investment?

Boston?
Denver?
Dallas?
OKC?
Orlando?

[omahen]

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/

Alright, here’s a question:

Who’s getting a good return on their payroll investment?

Boston?
Denver?
Dallas?
OKC?
Orlando?

Define "good return". For me it is the title(s). OKC and Orlando might be fun to watch, but their rookies will get new deals at some point and those cheap teams can quickly become expensive. It remains to be seen if they are good enough for serious contention or if the changes will need to be made. The future looks great for both. Very good foundation and a lot of assets and flexibility moving forward. Still, the moves that will likely follow will need to be successful. They are probably far from a finished product.

Boston and Denver certainly did extremely well building their teams around the stars. I think you can't do much better than Boston in terms of putting the right pieces around your stars. So if they fail, the only thing they can do really is either to change the coach or the star(s). Denver already won last season so they imho got best return on their investment. That team is locked for at least another season after this one so plenty of hope they can put more rings on their fingers. 

Success wise Dallas is at the same level as OKC and Orlando but they have far less flexibility moving forward and one star is on the wrong side of 30. Far more pressure for every move to be a plus in order to be successful.

If I take another measure - bad salaries. 

Boston - Brown is probably not a super max level star, but other than that I could not really complain about any of their players being overpaid. Once you get into bird rights trap you often end up (over)paying your own players to avoid losing them.

Denver - not really much to complain about. MPJ is perhaps a bit overpaid (similar decision as Boston did with Brown) but his fit for this team is ideal.

OKC and Orlando - nothing to complain about. Two successful teams with most of their players still on their rookie deals. Decisions about next deals for this guys and deciding who is a long term piece of the puzzle will be crucial. Memphis was in a similar position two season ago. They are no longer cheap and don't look much more like a real contender than they did 2 years ago.

Mavs. THJ is definitely overpaid for what he can contribute to what the team needs. Those 18 millions could definitely be better spent elsewhere. One could argue Maxi and Green (his new deal kicking in next season) are not really positive value deals. Their best versions from this season are worth those deals, problem is they are far too inconsistent and injury prone to really make those deals look as bargains. Of course, if Mavs go all the way, perception changes big time and every player is worth every cent.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Brunson is a superstar now. He is killing the Sixers. They can’t guard him. He has the 1st 40 pt 10 assist game in Knicks playoff history. That's hard to believe with all the great players they've had. There are more Knicks fans in Philly, than Sixers fans, lol..

[dirkfansince1998]

Brunson is a superstar now. He is killing the Sixers. They can’t guard him. There are more Knicks fans in Philly, than Sixers fans, lol..

Might be worse than the Nash blunder. Only thing that can make up for it is a championship within the next 3-5 seasons.