AROUND the NBA: MIN Sweeps PHX!

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3985...-2024-2025


NBA free agents team lists for 24-25

[SleepingHero]

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
ESPN Sources: The Milwaukee Bucks are preparing to be without two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo for the start of their opening round series against the Indiana Pacers, but are hopeful treatment on his left calf strain will allow him to return sometime later in the series.

[Scott41theMavs]

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
ESPN Sources: The Milwaukee Bucks are preparing to be without two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo for the start of their opening round series against the Indiana Pacers, but are hopeful treatment on his left calf strain will allow him to return sometime later in the series.

Rick salivates even more.

[michaeltex]

I don't know where else to ask this...

Once GSW won their first small ball championship, there seemed to be a surge toward 5-out, 3pt heavy offenses. Even the Mavs, until recently, seemed bought in to this philosophy. Maybe because there was a shortage of quality centers, maybe because stats say 3pt shots can be the most efficient, maybe it's just a copycat league.

A key issue to DAL's problems have been the donut defense (hole in the middle). It wasn't an issue when Luka could play a lot of starting centers off the floor, but a team with quality depth at the five, like GSW two years ago, was a problem. It was a key issue to the post-Kyrie trade last season. But the advent of DLive and Gafford has solidified the position and elevated the defense. That combination is also the third "star" we needed to make opponents pay for over comitting to guard Luka and Kyrie.

So my question here is whether we are seeing the decline of small ball and a return to basketball as a big man's game?

[Chicagojk]

sort of weird.....


https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...5222993385

And what shouldn’t happen with the 65-game criteria rule.

Kuminga played a career high 74 games but is ineligible. Why?

61 games: 20 minutes plus

13 games: 15-19 minutes

Only 2 of those games count

Kuminga is short 2 games


https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...5589073936


And another one
Donte DiVincenzo played 81 games and is ineligible for Most Improved.

[SleepingHero]

I don't know where else to ask this...

Once GSW won their first small ball championship, there seemed to be a surge toward 5-out, 3pt heavy offenses. Even the Mavs, until recently, seemed bought in to this philosophy. Maybe because there was a shortage of quality centers, maybe because stats say 3pt shots can be the most efficient, maybe it's just a copycat league.

A key issue to DAL's problems have been the donut defense (hole in the middle). It wasn't an issue when Luka could play a lot of starting centers off the floor, but a team with quality depth at the five, like GSW two years ago, was a problem. It was a key issue to the post-Kyrie trade last season. But the advent of DLive and Gafford has solidified the position and elevated the defense. That combination is also the third "star" we needed to make opponents pay for over comitting to guard Luka and Kyrie.

So my question here is whether we are seeing the decline of small ball and a return to basketball as a big man's game?

Keeping with my historical theme today, history says that GSW was an anomaly. I mean who else but Steph Curry and Klay Thompson could reliably hit some of those 3s that they shot? A movement based offense around the 2 most lethal outside shooters the league has ever seen is hard to replicate to the same level. 

I think GSW showed how good of a shot the 3pt shot is. A lot of teams incorporated it. But 29 other teams don't have Steph Curry, nor do they have guys that can play like him all the time. And even if they did, they didn't really have the personnel to make that playstyle work (namely an All-NBA switch defender that can guard 1-5, facilitate, and rebound, and a 2 way 2-guard that can equally space the floor who shoots in the 99th percentile). 

Before GSW it was always a big man league, and it will probably continue to be that as it has always been the most reliable form of success. Doesn't hurt the last 3/4 chips have come from teams that have a good big man in the middle too (Jokic, Giannis, AD).

[SleepingHero]

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
After 14 NBA seasons, Blake Griffin says he is retiring from basketball. The former No. 1 pick was a Rookie of the Year, six-time All-Star, five-time All-NBA player and Slam Dunk Contest winner.

[SleepingHero]

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
ESPN Sources: Phoenix Suns associate HC Kevin Young is finalizing a long-term deal to become the next coach at Brigham Young University. An aggressive push to hire NBA’s highest paid assistant lands BYU its top target.

[dirkfansince1998]

Keeping with my historical theme today, history says that GSW was an anomaly. I mean who else but Steph Curry and Klay Thompson could reliably hit some of those 3s that they shot? A movement based offense around the 2 most lethal outside shooters the league has ever seen is hard to replicate to the same level. 

I think GSW showed how good of a shot the 3pt shot is. A lot of teams incorporated it. But 29 other teams don't have Steph Curry, nor do they have guys that can play like him all the time. And even if they did, they didn't really have the personnel to make that playstyle work (namely an All-NBA switch defender that can guard 1-5, facilitate, and rebound, and a 2 way 2-guard that can equally space the floor who shoots in the 99th percentile). 

Before GSW it was always a big man league, and it will probably continue to be that as it has always been the most reliable form of success. Doesn't hurt the last 3/4 chips have come from teams that have a good big man in the middle too (Jokic, Giannis, AD).

GS never was a real five out team. They had the two best shooters in the league but more often than not they shared the floor with at least one (more often two) non shooters. Guards/wings like Livingston or Iguodala and bigs like Bogut, Ezeli, Looney. No team really copied their approach because as you stated Curry and Thompson were/are unique. A team that is relying on off ball screens and split actions to creat cutting lanes or open 3s instead of having traditional ballhandlers that create the offense in the pick and roll or isolations.
When I think of the modern spread pick and roll and 5-out spacing the first team that comes to mind are the Harden Rockets after they gave up on Howard/Capela and replaced them with smaller guys like Tucker and RoCo. Ball dominant playmaker playing iso ball or pick and roll with 5-out spacing. Something most teams with talented scorers (including the Mavs) tried to copy.

For me the real difference in philosophy comes down to shot creation and passing. The Warriors and Nuggets run systems with stationary playmakers surrounded by moving players that are trying to get open on the three point line or cutting to the rim. Majority of the league (including the Mavs) are mostly running a system with playmaking guards/wings that are creating of the dribble and off ball players that aren't moving as much (spot up or cut).

[omahen]

GS never was a real five out team. They had the two best shooters in the league but more often than not they shared the floor with at least one (more often two) non shooters. Guards/wings like Livingston or Iguodala and bigs like Bogut, Ezeli, Looney. No team really copied their approach because as you stated Curry and Thompson were/are unique. A team that is relying on off ball screens and split actions to creat cutting lanes or open 3s instead of having traditional ballhandlers that create the offense in the pick and roll or isolations.
When I think of the modern spread pick and roll and 5-out spacing the first team that comes to mind are the Harden Rockets after they gave up on Howard/Capela and replaced them with smaller guys like Tucker and RoCo. Ball dominant playmaker playing iso ball or pick and roll with 5-out spacing. Something most teams with talented scorers (including the Mavs) tried to copy.

For me the real difference in philosophy comes down to shot creation and passing. The Warriors and Nuggets run systems with stationary playmakers surrounded by moving players that are trying to get open on the three point line or cutting to the rim. Majority of the league (including the Mavs) are mostly running a system with playmaking guards/wings that are creating of the dribble and off ball players that aren't moving as much (spot up or cut).

Also to note. Mavs centers have been awesome against bad teams, but not so much against most of the good teams. As an example of one of the later games, Gafford was not effective against Houston small ball. Mavs did great against OKC though. That is why I am not convinced Mavs will not be forced to small balll when a quality opponent goes small ball. I hope Mavs will be able to force their style of play, lock the paint, push the transition, gather offensive rebounds. But it is also possible teams will just give DJJ or PJ the "Giddey treatment", switch every screen taking away PnR, pack the paint and hope Mavs will not make enough shots from the outside. If I am the opposing coach, this is the first thing I would try.

[Scott41theMavs]

Also to note. Mavs centers have been awesome against bad teams, but not so much against most of the good teams. As an example of one of the later games, Gafford was not effective against Houston small ball. Mavs did great against OKC though. That is why I am not convinced Mavs will not be forced to small balll when a quality opponent goes small ball. I hope Mavs will be able to force their style of play, lock the paint, push the transition, gather offensive rebounds. But it is also possible teams will just give DJJ or PJ the "Giddey treatment", switch every screen taking away PnR, pack the paint and hope Mavs will not make enough shots from the outside. If I am the opposing coach, this is the first thing I would try.

I think Lively has the athleticism and lateral movement to give even small ball teams trouble on the defensive end, if Kidd will try it.

[dirkfansince1998]

Expected outcome after the first half. Lakers up 10. +10 FTA. Only suprise is the hot 3-point shooting. 10/20.
Thankfully the Mavs avoided the play-in.

[Chicagojk]

Playoff basketball is brutal and hard and you won’t play your best every game. Although I really enjoy seeing which guys step up and which guys shrink. Sometimes it is guys you wouldn’t have thought

[The Jom]

I don't know where else to ask this...

Once GSW won their first small ball championship, there seemed to be a surge toward 5-out, 3pt heavy offenses. Even the Mavs, until recently, seemed bought in to this philosophy. Maybe because there was a shortage of quality centers, maybe because stats say 3pt shots can be the most efficient, maybe it's just a copycat league.

A key issue to DAL's problems have been the donut defense (hole in the middle). It wasn't an issue when Luka could play a lot of starting centers off the floor, but a team with quality depth at the five, like GSW two years ago, was a problem. It was a key issue to the post-Kyrie trade last season. But the advent of DLive and Gafford has solidified the position and elevated the defense. That combination is also the third "star" we needed to make opponents pay for over comitting to guard Luka and Kyrie.

So my question here is whether we are seeing the decline of small ball and a return to basketball as a big man's game?

I agree with the premise of your question. And I think we are seeing bigger lineups. But they are largely more mobile, modern bigs. For instance, we might argue today about whether Giannis is really a 5, not a 4. But not too long ago the same debate was about Tim Duncan.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Pelicans have came back vs Lakers behind Zion's 40 pts. Tied at 95 with 2:50 left.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

^ Zion got hurt on that play and hasn’t come back. Tough break for NOLA

[dirkfansince1998]

^ Zion got hurt on that play and hasn’t come back. Tough break for NOLA

Summary of his career. Complete dominance when he is in shape but simply cannot stay healthy.

[surfpuckmd]

The Lakers absolutely could not stop Zion.  They were fouling him on nearly every drive (which the refs ignored) and he still finished almost everything near the rim.  

CJ and Ingram both had bad games and the Pelicans still nearly won.

The refs did everything possible though for the Lakers to pull through.  They were the MVPs of this game.  Bravely rejecting fairness in the name of a certain Laker victory.  The Lakers have a good shot at defeating the Nuggets if the officials can continue this performance on their behalf.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Nuggets have beat the Lakers 7 straight times, the sweep in the finals and they swept them 3-0 this year. Lakers probably win a game or two, because they are in a nice groove and Russell has been lights out from 3. But I still like the Nuggets to advance.

[Jason Terry]

New Orleans is interesting. They seem likely to go home if Zion is hurt for real. It’s hard to justify running that back. They have some decent players with length and skills needed to be good. They need a real PG. McCollum contract looks really bad now. Jonas is useless in real games. Zion needs to get on Jenny Craig

Mitchell would make a lot of sense for them, but i suspect many teams will also be in on him