TRADE: Christian Wood (1yr/$14.3M) to DAL | #26+SB+Boban+Chriss+TB to HOU

[dynamicalVoid]

I like Green. He has shown improvement.  I don’t agree with a lot of what Winter is saying on this thread wrt Green or how the Mavs have to have a win now mentality. The Mavs are not guaranteed to get past even the first round next year. They are a one star team in a tough conference.  Adding retread veterans thinking they will put you over the top is how a lot of franchises have got into trouble. 

Having said that, there are players who are untouchables, players who mgmt will trade only for the right price, and players who will always be part of any trade conversation. Whatever we say or feel, Green is going to be in the last category.

 
Can you define his timeline?

So what if he doesnt improve on offensive feel or 3ball during the offseason?

Hes cost controlled.  Is that the right answer?

I agree with that...but not at small improvements.   Hes literally last in the league at offensive feel.  And I want the dude to succeed.

[Winter]

I like Green. He has shown improvement.  I don’t agree with a lot of what Winter is saying on this thread wrt Green or how the Mavs have to have a win now mentality.

I'll just point out an article that was posted in Mavs Moneyball website - which I happen to agree with. They list three things the Mavs could learn from this year's NBA champions.

#2 on the list was "Players on the Fringes Matter" ... and they point to Bejelica and Gary Payton II as examples of players the coaching staff was comfortable playing without reservation. In other words, having 8-10 players you can play in the playoffs can make a difference.

#3 on the list is "Don't Waste Your Window" - which is an obvious reference to a team's best window of time for a championship. 

Josh Green is currently on a team that needs veteran depth. I think he's a poor fit for the Mavericks right now, but it's just an opinion. It's always possible Green figures it out and finds a way to stay on the court and be successful. I just wouldn't hang onto him hoping that happens.


3 things the Dallas Mavericks can learn from the 2022 NBA Finals - Mavs Moneyball

[F Gump]

In other words, having 8-10 players you can play in the playoffs can make a difference [url=https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2022/6/20/23172743/3-things-the-dallas-mavericks-can-learn-from-the-2022-nba-finals][/url]

That one sentence is the complete answer to your worries about Green.

Right now, everyone (Mavs included) recognizes that the Mavs had 6 playable guys in the playoffs and need to add 2 more. The fact that they got as far as they did with only 6 is a testament to their potential. The whole focus is on adding 2 (at least).

But that isn't 15, and leaves 6-7 other slots for backups, and players who you are trying to develop, so that maybe later they will be one of your 8 or 9. That's where GS got Looney - low draft pick, years of work and development, and now he's a key player. But early, not that good - he didn't get off the bench at all his 1st 2 playoff years.

Right now, no one (Mavs included) think Green is one of those 9. But there is the hope that, with some more seasoning, he can get there.

[hakeemfaan]

 
Can you define his timeline?

So what if he doesnt improve on offensive feel or 3ball during the offseason?

Hes cost controlled.  Is that the right answer?

I agree with that...but not at small improvements.   Hes literally last in the league at offensive feel.  And I want the dude to succeed.

There is no guaranteed answers to championships. A lot of teams have made trades for veterans thinking they were right on the cusp only to fall into mediocrity. 

Let’s be realistic about the Mavs. They overachieved this season. The West is tough. We don’t have two legit stars that we can be sure that this is the next step to a title. I like the improvement that Green has shown but I am not intrigued by him in any way. My point is only that let’s not just use up another cheap piece who did contribute this year to get some retread veteran thinking we are much closer than we really are.

[hakeemfaan]

I'll just point out an article that was posted in Mavs Moneyball website - which I happen to agree with. They list three things the Mavs could learn from this year's NBA champions.

#2 on the list was "Players on the Fringes Matter" ... and they point to Bejelica and Gary Payton II as examples of players the coaching staff was comfortable playing without reservation. In other words, having 8-10 players you can play in the playoffs can make a difference.

#3 on the list is "Don't Waste Your Window" - which is an obvious reference to a team's best window of time for a championship. 

Josh Green is currently on a team that needs veteran depth. I think he's a poor fit for the Mavericks right now, but it's just an opinion. It's always possible Green figures it out and finds a way to stay on the court and be successful. I just wouldn't hang onto him hoping that happens.


3 things the Dallas Mavericks can learn from the 2022 NBA Finals - Mavs Moneyball

My disagreement is about the window. True just like any team with LeBron, any team with Luka is ready to win. But just like Lebrom, Luka is not going to win a title by himself. We can’t get carried away by what happened this season and feel we are on the cusp. Keep some young cheap pieces also.  


Even teams with two legit studs and legit in contention have always found the ability to have a mix of veterans and younger players.  All of them don’t have to be in the rotation in the playoffs. The season is long and grueling too. The youth helps there. So if even legit title teams can do that, we can too. It does not have to be black and white that we just need more veterans to put us over the line.

[Jommybone]

Remember at my first live NBA game how much faster Allen Iverson could move than anyone else on the court. I see similar difference in the way Josh Green runs and jumps and defends compared to EVERYONE ELSE ON THE COURT, either team. Treating him as expendable after 2 years would be idiotic. 

Christian Wood’s highlight videos make the same kind of eye-popping impression. Moves so well for his size. A young Dirk with hops. It’s crazy. Unless he poops in Luka’s locker, you give that kind of athleticism chance after chance after chance to develop. See, exhibit A, Andrew Wiggins. (But yeah, Wiggins probably didn’t fit Minnesota’s timeline.)

[Dirknows]

My disagreement is about the window. True just like any team with LeBron, any team with Luka is ready to win. But just like Lebrom, Luka is not going to win a title by himself. We can’t get carried away by what happened this season and feel we are on the cusp. Keep some young cheap pieces also.  


Even teams with two legit studs and legit in contention have always found the ability to have a mix of veterans and younger players.  All of them don’t have to be in the rotation in the playoffs. The season is long and grueling too. The youth helps there. So if even legit title teams can do that, we can too. It does not have to be black and white that we just need more veterans to put us over the line.

If Wood averages 18/9 on ~39% from 3 with decent defense AND is healthy I’d classify that as a legit number 2, that’s basically what we wanted a healthy Kristaps to be at for a full season. If Wood balls out and Luka is in shape, they will be a damn good duo, and Brunson tossing in 18-20 points a night would be great too even though he’s too small to ever be a plus defender.

[Dirknows]

I hope you are right.  I have a little worry that he is going to ball out in a contract year (like he did in Detroit), get paid, and then start exhibiting some of his red flags.  I was worried about Dinwiddie too, so hopefully this is just as unfounded (although I think the flags are more numerous in this case).

Think winning solves a lot. Also the Mavs have a very strong locker room, I think Wood will have a great time playing with these dudes.

[hakeemfaan]

If Wood averages 18/9 on ~39% from 3 with decent defense AND is healthy I’d classify that as a legit number 2, that’s basically what we wanted a healthy Kristaps to be at for a full season. If Wood balls out and Luka is in shape, they will be a damn good duo, and Brunson tossing in 18-20 points a night would be great too even though he’s too small to ever be a plus defender.

Wood is a good piece and I like the trade but we need more key pieces. Not just some veterans to round up the cast. A true 2 doesn’t get traded for the #26 pick and journeymen. The reason you don’t want to get carried away and overrate folks is that you tend to make bad decisions when you start doing that.

[Winter]

We can’t get carried away by what happened this season and feel we are on the cusp

We can't? When exactly should we feel that?

If the cusp isn't the Western Conference final, where is it?

[Kammrath]

The Rockets' deal with the Mavericks that sent Christian Wood for the No. 26 pick cannot be completed until draft night, and there's a strong possibility Houston will look to expand the deal by trading up with the No. 17 pick or by making various other moves. There's a chance the trade won't be finalized until July 6, after the free-agency moratorium.

Per Jake Fischer

[hakeemfaan]

We can't? When exactly should we feel that?

If the cusp isn't the Western Conference final, where is it?

Seriously?  Are you saying we are automatically better than the Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers next year? Are we better than a healthy Clippers?  How about an improving Wolves team?  

Can we beat any of these teams? Sure. Can we lose to any of these teams? Sure. 

Given that I think it is foolish to run after veterans thinking that is what is mainly needed to put us over the top.

[KillerLeft]

Seriously?  Are you saying we are automatically better than the Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers next year? Are we better than a healthy Clippers?  How about an improving Wolves team?  

I don't want to put words in @"Winter"'s mouth, but I didn't get that out of what he said at all. I think he was just saying that the team made it to the WCF last year, which was the "cusp" of getting to the finals. That's true. 

You're right that this coming season is a new one. Anything can happen, good or bad. 

Do you get the sense that the Mavs are standing pat? I certainly don't. They made a pretty big shake-up of a trade before the finals were over.

[Winter]

Are you saying we are automatically better than the Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers next year?

Nope. I'm saying why wouldn't we try to get better than those teams? The Lakers, Grizzlies, and Suns will do everything they can to stay on top. We're competing with them now. We're close. What will get us there?

Every move we make should be how much better can we be against these competing teams, particularly in a playoff environment where our lack of depth and our center position were exposed. Every playoff team tries to shore up their weaknesses. We don't need to behave like Portland or OKC in how we approach Free Agency and the draft. Our identity is a playoff team, and our roster construction isn't experimental anymore. Most of our weaknesses are pretty well outlined, and we need players to shore up those holes.

Josh Green may be a player we keep. But we currently keep Green because of a potential ceiling that no one has seen yet. I no longer think the Mavs will cultivate "potential" on our 15-man roster given our depth problem. Nor should we in my opinion. We have the G League for that.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Seriously?  Are you saying we are automatically better than the Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers next year? Are we better than a healthy Clippers?  How about an improving Wolves team?  

Can we beat any of these teams? Sure. Can we lose to any of these teams? Sure. 

Given that I think it is foolish to run after veterans thinking that is what is mainly needed to put us over the top.

You can add Denver and New Orleans to the mix.

[F Gump]

Are you saying we are automatically better than the Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers next year? Are we better than a healthy Clippers?  How about an improving Wolves team?  .

Is anyone saying that? Nope.

But is it true? Yep!!!

Regardless of the actual eventual results, Mavs are the better team with the highest upside. There is no ceiling here. Because, Luka.

[Dundalis]

Remember at my first live NBA game how much faster Allen Iverson could move than anyone else on the court. I see similar difference in the way Josh Green runs and jumps and defends compared to EVERYONE ELSE ON THE COURT, either team. Treating him as expendable after 2 years would be idiotic. 

Christian Wood’s highlight videos make the same kind of eye-popping impression. Moves so well for his size. A young Dirk with hops. It’s crazy. Unless he poops in Luka’s locker, you give that kind of athleticism chance after chance after chance to develop. See, exhibit A, Andrew Wiggins. (But yeah, Wiggins probably didn’t fit Minnesota’s timeline.)

You must have fast forward vision when viewing Green. He's athletic, but he's nowhere near THAT athletic. Unless you actually just meant compared to his rather unathletic teammates.

Also literally the only similarity Wood has with Dirk is he can shoot 3's. There's pretty much nothing about their offensive profile that is otherwise similar. If he fully buys in though, I think he's a legit good quality number 2 option, and the clear second best scorer on the team, even over Brunson.

[Jommybone]

???

Wood and Dirk: Tall, thin, able to handle the rock surprisingly well for a 7 footer, able to instigate a fast break with the dribble, able to score off the dribble. Not just 3s.

[cow]

I'm no Green fan, far from it, but he does have some really impressive athletic traits.  His lateral quickness and ability to stay connected on defense is impressive.

[hakeemfaan]

Nope. I'm saying why wouldn't we try to get better than those teams? The Lakers, Grizzlies, and Suns will do everything they can to stay on top. We're competing with them now. We're close. What will get us there?




Josh Green may be a player we keep. But we currently keep Green because of a potential ceiling that no one has seen yet. I no longer think the Mavs will cultivate "potential" on our 15-man roster given our depth problem. Nor should we in my opinion. We have the G League for that.

No one is saying we shouldn’t compete every year that a Luka is on the team to try and win a title. You don’t waste any year with a guy like that. 

The disagreement is about looking at Green as a mere future potential guy. He is more than that From what I saw he had improved from year 1 and contributed on most nights this year when given a chance. We are not talking about the future.  

Is he an untouchable? Of course not. However I am not just going to throw in one of the few athletic young guys we have, one who can play defense, and one who showed improvement on offense.  Especially not to just get some retread veteran. 

All very good teams have a mixture of young talent and seasoned veterans. Even GS has Kuminga and Moses Moody who didn’t get too much burn in the playoffs but served a valuable role in the regular season and will serve going forward.