TRADE: Christian Wood (1yr/$14.3M) to DAL | #26+SB+Boban+Chriss+TB to HOU

[burekemde]

I actually was going to put in my post that getting wood means that we probably have to trade THJ. Like you said he's not the absolute perfect fit for the team scheme and it's hard not to notice how the team didn't skip a beat when he went down. 

Plus, there are only so many shots available in a game. Luka is going to take his 20-25 a night. Brunson probably is going to get 15 a game. Dinwiddie as well with 15. Right there we're at 50 possessions. The team averaged 85 a game (27th in the league), which gives us 35 left to distribute between Wood, THJ, DFS, Maxi, and Bullock. Wood should get around 15 a game. So is THJ/DFS/Maxi/Bullock going to take 5 shots each? Just hard to imagine it. 

Of course the easiest thing would be to just shoot more shots and play faster, which I don't think Luka prefers. 

In any case, I'm intrigued on what sort of packages (if any) they can get for THJ+Powell+Green.

I think this package could land a solid player that fits the scheme. This would be a good trade indeed. Green just lacks the natural offensive instincts and sshooting to be a factor at this point of time. Might get it later.

I think that still Kidd is really happy about Powell due to his movement on defense, and in regular season, he is a weapon in pick and roll with Luka. I dont see the team trading him away.

My hope is that THJ and Green could get us a good player in return.

Ive noted several instances this season of Luka, and other teammates,  getting annoyed by THJ offensive decisions where he took difficult shots without letting the offense to develop. Im not sure it was that, could also be just frustrations of being behind in those games, but THJ has a tendency, and I would say an irreversible one, to play on his own without involving the team at all. And IMO this is not the same as when Luka takes a step-back 3, most of the time there is thought and schematic tactical well-calculated decision behind Lukas step back 3s and they always involve the whole team and that is when the defense is giving up the step back 3 and not allowing Lukas teammates to be open, hence in that sense Luka is involving the team. It most of the times involves Lukas natural progressions, and sometimes this can be a result of well set defense as well, and the best play in those situations, but he allows the reads to go through and gives a thought to each position of each teammate. No, instead THJ's rushed 3s are most of the time where he is fully covered have most of the time no sense or well-calculation behind it, and never involve the teammates, any progression, or the scheme and tactics of the offense and are not a decision based on the reads THJ is doing, its simply running over and making sure he takes the shot and nobody else on the team, and mostly they are super rushed early in the shotclock. There is a world of difference how different contested 3s can be in terms of scheme and tactics, and the reasoning behind these kind of shots.

[MrGoat]

I don't get why so many people seem so deadset on trading Green. He has more upside left than just about anyone on the roster but he probably doesn't have that much trade value at the moment because he wasn't ready for his first real playoff minutes. 

He went from 45.2% from the field and 16% from deep in his first season to 50.8% from the field and 35.9% from deep this last season. So he soiled the bed in the playoffs, so did Brunson the year before. He's got a lot more offensive upside than Frank the Clank, who has yet to shoot 40% from the field after 5 seasons. If you're patient Green might actually turn into one of those coveted two way guys

Green is 21. DFS shot 37.2% from the field and 29.3% from deep when he was 23, but he made slight improvements in each and every season after that. I'm willing to be patient with Green because he showed offseason improvement which shows his future trajectory is heading the right way

[dynamicalVoid]

I think this package could land a solid player that fits the scheme. This would be a good trade indeed. Green just lacks the natural offensive instincts and sshooting to be a factor at this point of time. Might get it later.

I think that still Kidd is really happy about Powell due to his movement on defense, and in regular season, he is a weapon in pick and roll with Luka. I dont see the team trading him away.

My hope is that THJ and Green could get us a good player in return.

Ive noted several instances this season of Luka, and other teammates,  getting annoyed by THJ offensive decisions where he took difficult shots without letting the offense to develop. Im not sure it was that, could also be just frustrations of being behind in those games, but THJ has a tendency, and I would say an irreversible one, to play on his own without involving the team at all. And IMO this is not the same as when Luka takes a step-back 3, most of the time there is thought and schematic tactical well-calculated decision behind Lukas step back 3s and they always involve the whole team and that is when the defense is giving up the step back 3 and not allowing Lukas teammates to be open, hence in that sense Luka is involving the team. It most of the times involves Lukas natural progressions, and sometimes this can be a result of well set defense as well, and the best play in those situations, but he allows the reads to go through and gives a thought to each position of each teammate. No, instead THJ's rushed 3s are most of the time where he is fully covered have most of the time no sense or well-calculation behind it, and never involve the teammates, any progression, or the scheme and tactics of the offense and are not a decision based on the reads THJ is doing, its simply running over and making sure he takes the shot and nobody else on the team, and mostly they are super rushed early in the shotclock. There is a world of difference how different contested 3s can be in terms of scheme and tactics, and the reasoning behind these kind of shots.

man o man o man

so friggin' true

[Kammrath]

I don't get why so many people seem so deadset on trading Green. He has more upside left than just about anyone on the roster but he probably doesn't have that much trade value at the moment because he wasn't ready for his first real playoff minutes. 

He went from 45.2% from the field and 16% from deep in his first season to 50.8% from the field and 35.9% from deep this last season. So he soiled the bed in the playoffs, so did Brunson the year before. He's got a lot more offensive upside than Frank the Clank, who has yet to shoot 40% from the field after 5 seasons. If you're patient Green might actually turn into one of those coveted two way guys

Green is 21. DFS shot 37.2% from the field and 29.3% from deep when he was 23. I'm willing to be patient with Green because he showed offseason improvement

PREACH.

OR (I would add) bringing in a 4th guard like Dragic (without SD outgoing) to suck up his developmental minutes!

[KillerLeft]

PREACH.

OR (I would add) bringing in a 4th guard like Dragic (without SD outgoing) to suck up his developmental minutes!

With you (both) on the value and potential of Green. 100% agreement. 

I don’t get how Dragic could hold him back. Two, different player types not in competition for a role, imo. Green didn’t really play much guard this year, as far as I could tell.

[dynamicalVoid]

I don't get why so many people seem so deadset on trading Green. He has more upside left than just about anyone on the roster but he probably doesn't have that much trade value at the moment because he wasn't ready for his first real playoff minutes. 

He went from 45.2% from the field and 16% from deep in his first season to 50.8% from the field and 35.9% from deep this last season. So he soiled the bed in the playoffs, so did Brunson the year before. He's got a lot more offensive upside than Frank the Clank, who has yet to shoot 40% from the field after 5 seasons. If you're patient Green might actually turn into one of those coveted two way guys

Green is 21. DFS shot 37.2% from the field and 29.3% from deep when he was 23, but he made slight improvements in each and every season after that. I'm willing to be patient with Green because he showed offseason improvement which shows his future trajectory is heading the right way

Im a casual and Green does not pass the eye test offensively.

He just doesnt process the offensive side of the game anywhere close to NBA caliber.  IMO, he might be the worst guard/wing player in the league offensively.   Its that bad.

Now...I know nothing about roster management nor do I know anything about roster management of a contender...so maybe Green is kept.   I assume he is on a short leash, though.

Kid should be in the gym right now shooting 3's.

[Kammrath]

I don’t get how Dragic could hold him back. Two, different player types not in competition for a role, imo. Green didn’t really play much guard this year, as far as I could tell.

I feel like in today's positionless NBA that minutes are minutes. If Dragic is coming in to play ANY regular/day-to-day minutes then FN/JG will lose minutes almost certainly. If Dragic is going to be like TB then they won't lose minutes...but I personally don't think you need someone like Dragic in that role....my opinion.

[F Gump]

PREACH.

OR (I would add) bringing in a 4th guard like Dragic (without SD outgoing) to suck up his developmental minutes!

I agree with the post on Green, and its general idea that prefers he stays and see how much more he can develop. The observation about Brunson's emergence - a year ago, he wasn't playoff ready - is only part of the picture, because Brunson had already played 4 NBA seasons before becoming playoff-worthy (Green has only played 2), and Green had the benefit of 3 high-level college years (Green had only 1, and there was no March Madness that year). As long as he is progressing, let's get the benefit of seeing where it goes rather than shipping him away in a trade (where he won't move the trade-value needle anyhow).

However, I don't agree that Dragic would be in his way. Green's shortest trajectory to being a regular is to be a 3-and-D wing, SG/SF size, with some side skills that can emerge at times (rebounding, passing). He's not the guy who creates your offense. (If he were to ever be that guy, he's so far away that Dragic would be long gone by the time he could be used that way in meaningful minutes.) If anyone might get in his way for minutes in the next season or 3, it will be THJ or Franky.

[MrGoat]

PREACH.

OR (I would add) bringing in a 4th guard like Dragic (without SD outgoing) to suck up his developmental minutes!

I think THJ is the real concern with Green's developmental minutes. He's going to need to play some to recoup some trade value. Dragic is at the age where you almost don't use him at all until playoff time

[Kammrath]

I think THJ is the real concern with Green's developmental minutes. He's going to need to play some to recoup some trade value.

100% agree THJ is a threat. I personally would like one of THJ/SD to be traded this offseason. I think the Mavs should be aiming to have one of JG/FN ready for the playoff rotation next year. I just think Dragic, if he is coming in to do anything but warm the bench, also steals developmental minutes from guys.

[dynamicalVoid]

I agree with the post on Green, and its general idea that prefers he stays and see how much more he can develop. The observation about Brunson's emergence - a year ago, he wasn't playoff ready - is only part of the picture, because Brunson had already played 4 NBA seasons before becoming playoff-worthy (Green has only played 2), and Green had the benefit of 3 high-level college years (Green had only 1, and there was no March Madness that year). As long as he is progressing, let's get the benefit of seeing where it goes rather than shipping him away in a trade (where he won't move the trade-value needle anyhow).

However, I don't agree that Dragic would be in his way. Green's shortest trajectory to being a regular is to be a 3-and-D wing, SG/SF size, with some side skills that can emerge at times (rebounding, passing). He's not the guy who creates your offense. (If he were to ever be that guy, he's so far away that Dragic would be long gone by the time he could be used that way in meaningful minutes.) If anyone might get in his way for minutes in the next season or 3, it will be THJ or Franky.

Jalen was a winner at Nova, player of the year and has obvious bball skills you cant coach.  Jalen had obvious NBA skills even his rookie year.

Green played at an elite High School against elite competition.  But...he looks like a try hard skating by on his willingness to give energy on defense.

I just dont know how much of the "he's young" argument I can take.   If the Mavs have the chair and time to develop him then I am all for him.  He just needs to show improvement in his 3ball before TDL lol.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Jalen was a winner at Nova, player of the year and has obvious bball skills you cant coach.  Jalen had obvious NBA skills even his rookie year.

Green played at an elite High School against elite competition.  But...he looks like a try hard skating by on his willingness to give energy on defense.

I just dont know how much of the "he's young" argument I can take.   If the Mavs have the chair and time to develop him then I am all for him.  He just needs to show improvement in his 3ball before TDL lol.

Green looks like Justin Anderson 2.0 to me. Hope he proves me wrong.

[F Gump]

He just needs to show improvement in his 3ball before TDL

He already has. And it was a MAJOR improvement. Clearly tons of work. Didn't you notice?

YR              2%         3%         FG%        FT%
1                56           16          45            56
2                57           36          51            69      

The already-seen clear signs of both hard work and progress are the main reasons I remain optimistic about Green's potential. I would expect that, having seen some results and getting more chances as a result, he will continue to work as hard or harder. Why wouldn't he?

What if he can bump that 3% to 40? He wasn't that far away, just 3 extra makes instead of misses over the whole season. The volume (ie, confidence and willing to take the shot) has to grow also. But progress is happening.

[MrGoat]

Green looks like Justin Anderson 2.0 to me. Hope he proves me wrong.

Funny thing is I didn't like the Green pick at the time because I saw Anderson in him. 

But let me remind you we traded Justin Anderson for Nerlens Noel. 

Anderson had a strong showing in the playoffs in his rookie year actually. Then regressed hard in his sophomore year after getting expectations up. We also no longer have RC here to botch the development. It's a different situation

[dynamicalVoid]

He already has. And it was a MAJOR improvement. Clearly tons of work. Didn't you notice?

YR              2%         3%         FG%        FT%
1                56           16          45            56
2                57           36          51            69      

The already-seen clear signs of both hard work and progress are the main reasons I remain optimistic about Green's potential. I would expect that, having seen some results and getting more chances as a result, he will continue to work as hard or harder. Why wouldn't he?

What if he can bump that 3% to 40? He wasn't that far away, just 3 extra makes instead of misses over the whole season. The volume (ie, confidence and willing to take the shot) has to grow also. But progress is happening.

Not trying to be a dick...

But this isnt about stats, man.  Its about NBA caliber bball players.

Thats fine if Green improves his shot.   I still feel you need to build your roster with bball players.  Meaning 2way players that are proficient on both ends.   

Here is a perfect example of a MAJOR flaw with Josh Green's offense:

The kid is super fast and strong....but afraid or too uncreative at the rim to convert on blow bys...a play that most other players would cash 95% of the time.  Josh Green...because of his terrible feel for the game might convert 65-75% of those.

Youre leaving meat on the bone.

[mvossman]

He already has. And it was a MAJOR improvement. Clearly tons of work. Didn't you notice?

YR              2%         3%         FG%        FT%
1                56           16          45            56
2                57           36          51            69      

The already-seen clear signs of both hard work and progress are the main reasons I remain optimistic about Green's potential. I would expect that, having seen some results and getting more chances as a result, he will continue to work as hard or harder. Why wouldn't he?

What if he can bump that 3% to 40? He wasn't that far away, just 3 extra makes instead of misses over the whole season. The volume (ie, confidence and willing to take the shot) has to grow also. But progress is happening.

I would argue that the improvement needs to be more about attempts than percentage.  He is taking less than 3 attempts per 36.  Given his role, he needs to double that.  If he can maintain 36% while doubling his attempt rate, he will be playable offensively.

[Winter]

I've made my case for trading Green a while back. It was not a popular position before the playoffs.... and maybe just marginally better now.

But like DVoid above, I believe this "he's still young" excuse just has to stop. Lots of players come into the league young. That's not a reason to keep them. They have to show something in practice and in games. He's had time to show the organization something... and he still can't stay on the court. It's not about his stats as much as it is that he needs to be where he's supposed to be, and he needs to make the right decisions in the moment. If he were doing either, he'd be playing more minutes.

In essence, this is the optimum time to move him. If he stays another year at the end of the bench, he will be worth nothing.

[MrGoat]

I've made my case for trading Green a while back. It was not a popular position before the playoffs.... and maybe just marginally better now.

But like DVoid above, I believe this "he's still young" excuse just has to stop. Lots of players come into the league young. That's not a reason to keep them. They have to show something in practice and in games. He's had time to show the organization something... and he still can't stay on the court. It's not about his stats as much as it is that he needs to be where he's supposed to be, and he needs to make the right decisions in the moment. If he were doing either, he'd be playing more minutes.

In essence, this is the optimum time to move him. If he stays another year at the end of the bench, he will be worth nothing.

There's young and then there's Josh Green young. Jalen Brunson was older when he first stepped on to an NBA court than Josh Green will be when he first steps on to the court this upcoming season. Having such an improvement from his rookie season to this last one makes him worth keeping. His contract is tiny compared to most of our players and he's the only guy we have who is younger than Luka, that includes two way guy Moses Wright

[dynamicalVoid]

There's young and then there's Josh Green young. Jalen Brunson was older when he first stepped on to an NBA court than Josh Green will be when he first steps on to the court this upcoming season. Having such an improvement from his rookie season to this last one makes him worth keeping. His contract is tiny compared to most of our players and he's the only guy we have who is younger than Luka, that includes two way guy Moses Wright

Whatever.

I hope nothing but the best for the guy.  I want him to succeed.  

Im not completely informed on what his deal is other than lack of offence.

I cant say much...Im considered a loser for being 42 and living at my moms.  But the the goal posts are being moved for me.

I dont see how this situation equates to Josh Green's goal posts being moved.

[mvossman]

I've made my case for trading Green a while back. It was not a popular position before the playoffs.... and maybe just marginally better now.

But like DVoid above, I believe this "he's still young" excuse just has to stop. Lots of players come into the league young. That's not a reason to keep them. They have to show something in practice and in games. He's had time to show the organization something... and he still can't stay on the court. It's not about his stats as much as it is that he needs to be where he's supposed to be, and he needs to make the right decisions in the moment. If he were doing either, he'd be playing more minutes.

In essence, this is the optimum time to move him. If he stays another year at the end of the bench, he will be worth nothing.

I'm curious what the hit rate is on guys that get drafted in the first round at 20, show significant improvement in their second season but are not quite rotation level yet?  Most of the players on this team were drafted/picked up at an older age and took longer than 2 years to be useful in the NBA, but that is selection bias.  I don't know how many players start on Green's trajectory and flame out, but there are clearly plenty of players who pan out (including the majority of our team).  

I'm skeptical of what value Green has in trades (especially after his playoff performance) because 3&D guys get undervalued in the market and unfinished ones even more so.  Green has a skillset that the Mavs are specifically looking for and I lean towards taking the gamble he continues improvement at 21 vs sending him out as trade fodder.  I'm not saying that I would send him out if he represents real value in a trade, but I doubt that scenario presents itself.