TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[omahen]

At least the TDL has become fun again. Here is an interesting proposal to discuss:

Hou: THJ, FN 2027 FRP
Dal: Gordon, Martin Jr

[cow]

Really?

100%.  Dirk gave you 21 seasons, a league MVP,  two finals appearances, the franchises first championship, and a finals MVP.  Luka might be more talented but Dirk is far more accomplished.  Luka might get there but I'm not giving him the crown yet.

[KillerLeft]

Who in the NBA has a better trio?

Every single team that isn't saddled with "money thief" Kyrie Irving is better off today than the Mavs. By my count, that's 29 teams.

[loki]

At least the TDL has become fun again. Here is an interesting proposal to discuss:

Hou: THJ, FN 2027 FRP
Dal: Gordon, Martin Jr

Is Gordon really that much of an upgrade to THJ? I suppose he's a little better. Not sure if it's worth a 1st.

I'd prefer something like Bojan and Burks.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Luka ahead of Dirk?

From a talent standpoint, yes.  From a career body of work standpoint, no.  That's academic, tho.

Point is Irving hasn't played a game and he's already our third best player in franchise history.

[omahen]

Is Gordon really that much of an upgrade to THJ? I suppose he's a little better. Not sure if it's worth a 1st.

I'd prefer something like Bojan and Burks.

Martin is a huge upgrade, as we severy lack big wings. He is the prize of this deal, not Gordon. Gordon is similar player than THJ; but you can let him go next season and save 20 mil. I think this is a big goal for Mavs now, to get out of THJ salary

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
Dallas now has inarguably the best backcourt in the league, and there's a very good chance they're not done dealing. Enjoy the moment!

Was entertaining about 30 people in our house, so late to the party.  So much to cover, but this is a good place to start.


WE HAVE TWO ALL-STARS.  The price was HIGH...more than I thought it would be or wanted it to be.  But as Killer said, if you want Kyrie, you are going to have to pay.  I knew it would be SD and mentioned DFS in several posts (to the dismay of most here).  I've just had a feeling that for whatever reason, the team was going to use Finney-Smith in an effort to upgrade.  There has just been too much smoke.  The pick is what surprised me.  I would have thought those guys would be enough.  I was wrong.  But, I have no idea what else was on the table from other teams.  None of us do.  I feel a little like I did when KP was dealt, but in the opposite direction.  I thought we were a better team and that Dinwiddie would be good here.  I just wanted one more asset.  Today, I think we are a better team and I think Irving will be great.  I just wanted to give up one less asset.

NOW WHAT.  The great thing about this happening today is we have four days to do more.  I agree with the  thinking that if we are all in, we might as well go all in.  There is a clear hole in the depth chart that Dorian used to occupy.  I think Morris is a band-aid while we wait for Maxi's return.  The real need is a starting level big who defends.  I think it could be filled with a four.  It could also be filled with a five which would move Wood to the four.  My hope is it is THJ plus a pick for someone good.  We don't have any future seconds, so protected firsts that turn into seconds won't be possible.  We could do unprotected 25/27 with provisional language, but that kind of makes 27 a risky proposition for the acquiring team.  If 23 doesn't convey, it becomes 24.  The provisional 25 becomes 26 and 27 cannot convey.  It is possible to write it up that way, so I think we are still in the game for two outgoing picks right now if we want to do that.  Personally, I'd rather trade 27.  Then this summer, we could trade 24 after the draft.  Then next summer we could trade 25 after the draft.

GREEN LIGHT.  I think this is an endorsement of Josh Green.  As the first person to ever say his name and "starter" in a post (last season), I'm all for that.  His D is critical.  We have all the O we can stand between Luka, Kyrie and Wood (assuming he's not traded).  We need on ball D and some big wing/small big D.  Green fills one slot and I presume Bullock will be the backup to that in the same way that Maxi will be the backup to what I hope will be an additional starter who defends well.  The beautiful thing about Josh is he also contributes at the offensive end.  I don't know if he will start next week, but he WILL start soon.

NEXT CONTRACT.  Unless something came out while I was writing this, I have to assume my hope for a two year extension (extend and trade) is not going to materialize.  Irving wanted out of Brooklyn because they played around with his money.  It is hard to imagine we don't have an understanding about the summer (despite what is being said publicly).  I suspect that understanding is a big number.  BTW, if we do that and if we don't trade Wood, I'm not sure why we don't just give Wood his four years also.

CUBAN IS NOT CHEAP.  We hear this a lot, but the salary bill just went up $6.2mm and the LT bill now stands at $60mm for this season.  I know the doom and gloom crowd is going to find a way to paint this as a not-so-clever and asset-expensive way for Cuban to save money.  But, it doesn't feel like that AT ALL from where I sit right now.  

FINAL THOUGHTS.  There is a bit of me that is a deal junkie and I like the action and discussing the strategy of just about any deal.  I'm not in love with the cost, but I see a path to being a better team.  Kyrie is a huge upgrade over SD.  I won't call Dorian overrated as I am a fan, but I was more enthralled with him as the $4mm little train that could.  His contribution to winning is dramatically smaller this season than the last 3 and his value over a replacement player has gone from outstanding (especially for the money) to about what one would expect for $12mm.  We probably did 'sell high', but it is a little sad nonetheless.  But, did I mention that we have TWO ALL-STARS.  Mix in Green and one more Top 60ish player in the front court without giving up Maxi/Wood/Powell and we have a shot at being really good.  Tyler when you say 'Enjoy the Moment', that's what I'm doing.  I've got sugar plum fairies of next deals dancing in my head (posts for another day).  But, I definitely see a path and we are more than a couple of big steps down that path.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Is Gordon really that much of an upgrade to THJ? I suppose he's a little better. Not sure if it's worth a 1st.

I'd prefer something like Bojan and Burks.

Ya, Gordon is done, but I do like Martin.

No doubt we need a starting SF/PF tweener like Martin.  We also need a 3rd point.

I keep going back to the Knicks: Quickley, Obi, and Reddish.  That younger trio plugs our holes.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

If he was perfect, he wouldn't be available.

Look man, I'm not getting into a back a forth with you about Kyrie. You justify the trade, and I get it, they had to do something.  But there is a major risk being taken here. He's definitely one of the most talented guards ever to play. But he has issues. I mean this guy was carrying his team to wins keeping them in the race without KD, then all of a sudden, he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and requests a trade. How long will it be before he gets another bug up his ass and wants some new scenery? Let's see how long it takes before he implodes again.

[loki]

Martin is a huge upgrade, as we severy lack big wings. He is the prize of this deal, not Gordon. Gordon is similar player than THJ; but you can let him go next season and save 20 mil. I think this is a big goal for Mavs now, to get out of THJ salary

Gotcha, didn't realize Martin was the point. His numbers aren't too flattering, but I can't say I've really ever watched him. If he can defend that might change my view a little. If not, I'll just cross my fingers that Cuban doesn't go into money saving mode.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Look man, I'm not getting into a back a forth with you about Kyrie. You justify the trade, and I get it, they had to do something.  But there is a major risk being taken here. He's definitely one of the most talented guards ever to play. But he has issues. I mean this guy was carrying his team to wins keeping them in the race without KD, then all of a sudden, he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and requests a trade. How long will it be before he gets another bug up his ass and wants some new scenery? Let's see how long it takes before he implodes again.

 There's only one of us dealing with reality.  Kyrie is now a Mav.  Reality.

I just don't spend my time complaining that water is wet.

---

Gotcha, didn't realize Martin was the point. His numbers aren't too flattering, but I can't say I've really ever watched him. If he can defend that might change my view a little. If not, I'll just cross my fingers that Cuban doesn't go into money saving mode.

I agree with omahen.  Martin would be a great fit.

[cow]

I would have thought those guys would be enough.  I was wrong.  But, I have no idea what else was on the table from other teams.  None of us do. 

Because speculation is fun:

MBT:  Dinwiddie + Dorian + 2 SRPs
Nets:  The Lakers are offering us FRPs, can you match that?
MBT:  Dinwiddie + Dorian + protected '27
Nets:  How abut  Dinwiddie + Josh + salary match + protected '29?
--MBT balks at Josh--
MBT:  Dinwiddie + Dorian + unprotected '29 + 2x SRPs
--Nets trying hold back bursting in an uncontrollable dance--
Nets:  You drive a hard barging but you have a deal.

Mavs always overpay and we all know this but somehow they always manage to surprise us all and outdo themselves.

[burekemde]

Was entertaining about 30 people in our house, so late to the party.  So much to cover, but this is a good place to start.


WE HAVE TWO ALL-STARS.  The price was HIGH...more than I thought it would be or wanted it to be.  But as Killer said, if you want Kyrie, you are going to have to pay.  I knew it would be SD and mentioned DFS in several posts (to the dismay of most here).  I've just had a feeling that for whatever reason, the team was going to use Finney-Smith in an effort to upgrade.  There has just been too much smoke.  The pick is what surprised me.  I would have thought those guys would be enough.  I was wrong.  But, I have no idea what else was on the table from other teams.  None of us do.  I feel a little like I did when KP was dealt, but in the opposite direction.  I thought we were a better team and that Dinwiddie would be good here.  I just wanted one more asset.  Today, I think we are a better team and I think Irving will be great.  I just wanted to give up one less asset.

NOW WHAT.  The great thing about this happening today is we have four days to do more.  I agree with the  thinking that if we are all in, we might as well go all in.  There is a clear hole in the depth chart that Dorian used to occupy.  I think Morris is a band-aid while we wait for Maxi's return.  The real need is a starting level big who defends.  I think it could be filled with a four.  It could also be filled with a five which would move Wood to the four.  My hope is it is THJ plus a pick for someone good.  We don't have any future seconds, so protected firsts that turn into seconds won't be possible.  We could do unprotected 25/27 with provisional language, but that kind of makes 27 a risky proposition for the acquiring team.  If 23 doesn't convey, it becomes 24.  The provisional 25 becomes 26 and 27 cannot convey.  It is possible to write it up that way, so I think we are still in the game for two outgoing picks right now if we want to do that.  Personally, I'd rather trade 27.  Then this summer, we could trade 24 after the draft.  Then next summer we could trade 25 after the draft.

GREEN LIGHT.  I think this is an endorsement of Josh Green.  As the first person to ever say his name and "starter" in a post (last season), I'm all for that.  His D is critical.  We have all the O we can stand between Luka, Kyrie and Wood (assuming he's not traded).  We need on ball D and some big wing/small big D.  Green fills one slot and I presume Bullock will be the backup to that in the same way that Maxi will be the backup to what I hope will be an additional starter who defends well.  The beautiful thing about Josh is he also contributes at the offensive end.  I don't know if he will start next week, but he WILL start soon.

NEXT CONTRACT.  Unless something came out while I was writing this, I have to assume my hope for a two year extension (extend and trade) is not going to materialize.  Irving wanted out of Brooklyn because they played around with his money.  It is hard to imagine we don't have an understanding about the summer (despite what is being said publicly).  I suspect that understanding is a big number.  BTW, if we do that and if we don't trade Wood, I'm not sure why we don't just give Wood his four years also.

CUBAN IS NOT CHEAP.  We hear this a lot, but the salary bill just went up $6.2mm and the LT bill now stands at $60mm for this season.  I know the doom and gloom crowd is going to find a way to paint this as a not-so-clever and asset-expensive way for Cuban to save money.  But, it doesn't feel like that AT ALL from where I sit right now.  

FINAL THOUGHTS.  There is a bit of me that is a deal junkie and I like the action and discussing the strategy of just about any deal.  I'm not in love with the cost, but I see a path to being a better team.  Kyrie is a huge upgrade over SD.  I won't call Dorian overrated as I am a fan, but I was more enthralled with him as the $4mm little train that could.  His contribution to winning is dramatically smaller this season than the last 3 and his value over a replacement player has gone from outstanding (especially for the money) to about what one would expect for $12mm.  We probably did 'sell high', but it is a little sad nonetheless.  But, did I mention that we have TWO ALL-STARS.  Mix in Green and one more Top 60ish player in the front court without giving up Maxi/Wood/Powell and we have a shot at being really good.  Tyler when you say 'Enjoy the Moment', that's what I'm doing.  I've got sugar plum fairies of next deals dancing in my head (posts for another day).  But, I definitely see a path and we are more than a couple of big steps down that path.

Great post. We are more talented team right now. And with Maxi back and more of the young Green, and the offense scoring easier and defense setting well, we will certainly be a lot tougher defending team as well. Its also not to underestimate how much this can keep Luka more fresh, near and long term. Luka could set the screens to Kyrie or play off ball, and avoid double teams like this, and still we would have an all star level player dictating the point of attack in these situations. SD was really good. But not good enough to not Luka run the play every single time, which was simply just a lot more effective than SD running the plays. Kyrie changes this entirely.

[Mavs2021]

From a talent standpoint, yes.  From a career body of work standpoint, no.  That's academic, tho.

Point is Irving hasn't played a game and he's already our third best player in franchise history.

Jesus Christ. He´s not better than Jason Kidd or Steve Nash.

He´s also going to be 31 in a month in case some people haven´t noticed. Another huge red flag for the four year extension. Doesn´t want to do two years, cause he thinks this will be his last big contract, maybe his retirement contract. He´s not hanging around past 35.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Jesus Christ. He´s not better than Jason Kidd or Steve Nash.

He´s also going to be 31 in a month in case some people haven´t noticed. Another huge red flag for the four year extension. Doesn´t want to do two years, cause he thinks this will be his last big contract, maybe his retirement contract. He´s not hanging around past 35.

You're right.  Life is over.  We should all commit Harakiri.

[Jason Terry]

Was entertaining about 30 people in our house, so late to the party.  So much to cover, but this is a good place to start.


WE HAVE TWO ALL-STARS.  The price was HIGH...more than I thought it would be or wanted it to be.  But as Killer said, if you want Kyrie, you are going to have to pay.  I knew it would be SD and mentioned DFS in several posts (to the dismay of most here).  I've just had a feeling that for whatever reason, the team was going to use Finney-Smith in an effort to upgrade.  There has just been too much smoke.  The pick is what surprised me.  I would have thought those guys would be enough.  I was wrong.  But, I have no idea what else was on the table from other teams.  None of us do.  I feel a little like I did when KP was dealt, but in the opposite direction.  I thought we were a better team and that Dinwiddie would be good here.  I just wanted one more asset.  Today, I think we are a better team and I think Irving will be great.  I just wanted to give up one less asset.

NOW WHAT.  The great thing about this happening today is we have four days to do more.  I agree with the  thinking that if we are all in, we might as well go all in.  There is a clear hole in the depth chart that Dorian used to occupy.  I think Morris is a band-aid while we wait for Maxi's return.  The real need is a starting level big who defends.  I think it could be filled with a four.  It could also be filled with a five which would move Wood to the four.  My hope is it is THJ plus a pick for someone good.  We don't have any future seconds, so protected firsts that turn into seconds won't be possible.  We could do unprotected 25/27 with provisional language, but that kind of makes 27 a risky proposition for the acquiring team.  If 23 doesn't convey, it becomes 24.  The provisional 25 becomes 26 and 27 cannot convey.  It is possible to write it up that way, so I think we are still in the game for two outgoing picks right now if we want to do that.  Personally, I'd rather trade 27.  Then this summer, we could trade 24 after the draft.  Then next summer we could trade 25 after the draft.

GREEN LIGHT.  I think this is an endorsement of Josh Green.  As the first person to ever say his name and "starter" in a post (last season), I'm all for that.  His D is critical.  We have all the O we can stand between Luka, Kyrie and Wood (assuming he's not traded).  We need on ball D and some big wing/small big D.  Green fills one slot and I presume Bullock will be the backup to that in the same way that Maxi will be the backup to what I hope will be an additional starter who defends well.  The beautiful thing about Josh is he also contributes at the offensive end.  I don't know if he will start next week, but he WILL start soon.

NEXT CONTRACT.  Unless something came out while I was writing this, I have to assume my hope for a two year extension (extend and trade) is not going to materialize.  Irving wanted out of Brooklyn because they played around with his money.  It is hard to imagine we don't have an understanding about the summer (despite what is being said publicly).  I suspect that understanding is a big number.  BTW, if we do that and if we don't trade Wood, I'm not sure why we don't just give Wood his four years also.

CUBAN IS NOT CHEAP.  We hear this a lot, but the salary bill just went up $6.2mm and the LT bill now stands at $60mm for this season.  I know the doom and gloom crowd is going to find a way to paint this as a not-so-clever and asset-expensive way for Cuban to save money.  But, it doesn't feel like that AT ALL from where I sit right now.  

FINAL THOUGHTS.  There is a bit of me that is a deal junkie and I like the action and discussing the strategy of just about any deal.  I'm not in love with the cost, but I see a path to being a better team.  Kyrie is a huge upgrade over SD.  I won't call Dorian overrated as I am a fan, but I was more enthralled with him as the $4mm little train that could.  His contribution to winning is dramatically smaller this season than the last 3 and his value over a replacement player has gone from outstanding (especially for the money) to about what one would expect for $12mm.  We probably did 'sell high', but it is a little sad nonetheless.  But, did I mention that we have TWO ALL-STARS.  Mix in Green and one more Top 60ish player in the front court without giving up Maxi/Wood/Powell and we have a shot at being really good.  Tyler when you say 'Enjoy the Moment', that's what I'm doing.  I've got sugar plum fairies of next deals dancing in my head (posts for another day).  But, I definitely see a path and we are more than a couple of big steps down that path.

Always good to see one of your big posts pop up. I read it and it’s like Mavs ASMR. Thanks dude. Spot on 

Creative deals for 3/4 types who can play D should be the focus like you say. 4 days to canvas the league. So much fun

Wood 4 year extension is fine now. Kyrie and Green extension in the offseason. Build around Luka, Kyrie, Wood, Green. We’re just maybe 2 role players away

---

Jesus Christ. He´s not better than Jason Kidd or Steve Nash.

He´s also going to be 31 in a month in case some people haven´t noticed. Another huge red flag for the four year extension. Doesn´t want to do two years, cause he thinks this will be his last big contract, maybe his retirement contract. He´s not hanging around past 35.

Neither Nash nor Kidd were ever close to top 10 players in the league while in a mavs uniform. As soon as he puts on the jersey he’s 3rd best player in the Cuban era to wear the jersey

[The Jom]

100%.  Dirk gave you 21 seasons, a league MVP,  two finals appearances, the franchises first championship, and a finals MVP.  Luka might be more talented but Dirk is far more accomplished.  Luka might get there but I'm not giving him the crown yet.

Dirk is more accomplished, yes. Did more for the franchise, yes. Love him more, yes. Better player? Luka already. Sorry.

[Hypermav]

Don't forget about Frank

[DanSchwartzgan]

Don't forget about Frank

People do tend to forget about Frank.

And, we did 'get a seat at the table'.

[burekemde]

This team is this move away from the title: Trade THJ and Bullock for a better player than any of the two. One that can shoot but also understands the game and has all around ability and offense skills. Doesnt need to be a star, but one with bbIQ.