TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[Omega_Supreme]

Been away from the board for a while so haven't had the opportunity to provide my perspective on this trade. Count me among the cautiously optimistic. Seems the general consensus around this deal is that the Mavs made the trade to free themselves from KP's contract and open up flexibility to make additional moves in the future. Fair point. But I like this move from a pure basketball standpoint, especially for playoff basketball and especially for Luka.

We all know good defensive teams switch in the playoffs and the two recent Clips games offer a template for how to beat the Mavs in a seven game series. We saw it last year too. It's all about exploiting the Mavs personnel by switching on Luka and forcing him to be a scorer. Luka can (and likely will) go off for 40+ but Brunson was only one other guy on the roster who could consistently attack a switching defense, but he struggles with length. 

I'll go on record that Dinwiddie will play with Luka and Brunson when teams try to force Luka into being a scorer. Dinwiddie can attack defenses on his own and that will help keep Luka fresh for the fourth quarter. My best guess is he'll settle into a 25-32 minute role, essentially taking KP's 15 shots and scoring 16-18 points per game. If he can do it, this trade is a big win.

Of course, we also know good defensive teams tend to blitz Luka with double teams in the fourth quarter. When that happens you need shooters to space the floor and a secondary initiator to take the pressure off no 77. Dinwiddie has the potential to add value against blitzing defenses but Bertans adds value as an elite floor spacer. 

Bertans is a four-five in the modern NBA but in Washington he was often on the floor with two other bigs. Not ideal. I'll go on record that Bertans will never play with two bigs in Dallas and Chriss is the guy most likely to loose his spot in a playoff rotation. Bertans will come close to matching Kleber's 20-25 min but will outscore him many nights, taking 6-8 of THJ's shots and boosting the second unit 8-11 points per game. If he can do it this trade is a home run.

This x100

I agree we added more offense and we filled major needs by adding an elite shooter and an attacking guard with 0 fear. Great Post

[ItsGoTime]

Totally agree. 

But, at least these three PG’s are three different sizes. That assuages this valid worry somewhat, imho.

Maybe, the reason I said PG is because all mostly need the ball in their hands more often than not. Guys like Brooks and Mann don’t have that need. Different sizes are besides the point, IMO. Finally tonight we get to comment on what we see with them on this team as opposed to theory crafting all day!

[vfromlmf]

Mavs are first in defensive rebounding, which is what I said.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/de...unding-pct

[Omega_Supreme]

Totally right. We're talking about role players here, not superstars who will play 40 minutes. These guys are weapons to replace a guy KP who couldn't be counted on. 

If the Clippers want to play Zubac and switch everything let's see them try to defend three scorers - Luka, Brunson, Dinwiddie - with Bertans and one of kleber, DFS or Bullock spacing the floor. 

Bertans needs to be guarded from 35 feet! 

So you have Luke getting doubled and another defender a full first down away from the bucket setting up the Mavs with a 3 v 2 advantage with two downhill scorers and a three point shooter!? Give me a break. THAT my friends will diversify the offense and dictate the style of play. Move-countermove. Mavs win.

Man you guys are seeing the same thing I do and I love this. 

These moves will make us a bitch to guard in the playoffs.

BTW the elephant in the room is THJ coming back by then as well. 

A closing lineup of Dinwiddie, Brunson, and Luka is a nightmare and both JB and Luka can be off ball in that scenario.

[vfromlmf]

I don't think the so-so-so needs the ball in his hands argument carries any water unless you're talking about the regular season and stats and who gets shots and who gets opportunities to earn a big contract. That crap is for other teams. 

Dinwiddie and Bertans have their contracts. Brunson has earned his. 

Most of our other guys barely shoot unless they're wide open anyway. Green doesn't even shoot when he's open. You think DFS cares if he gets 4 or 6 shots? Does Kleber or Powell bitch if they don't score in double figures? Bullock built his whole career on 6 shots per game. They add value in other ways. 

It will be simple in Dallas. When Luka is doubled in the playoffs the ball needs to move to someone who can do something with it. Dinwiddie has proven he can. I may be one of the biggest Dorian homers on this board but I sure as S don't want him facilitating from the wing in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. I want him standing in the corner ready to hit a dagger off Brunson or Dinwiddie penetration.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Mavs are first in defensive rebounding, which is what I said.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/de...unding-pct

Defensive rebounding,  fine. Not total rebounding % and rate.  Doesn't really matter, those numbers are fluid.


NBA Stats - NBA Team Total Rebounding % (Rebound Rate) | TeamRankings.com

[nielyn]

The following is a compendium of comments made by Tim Cato regarding front office matters and the trade, which I haven’t seen mentioned, but could have missed.

1.  This trade is very much a Cuban-driven transaction. Nico’s primary responsibility this season is to revamp the management structure, not to be the decision-maker on roster changes. This division of responsibilities makes a lot of sense, given Nico’s background and the organization’s needs. 

2.  The acquisition of SD and DB is primarily about flexibility in rebuilding the roster, not so much about what these players can provide on the court. However, the Mavs did have some interest in Dinwiddie as a player last summer. The interest was led by Cuban. He knows Dinwiddie personally, and they have bonded over their intense interest in crypto. 

3.  Cato referred to the acquisition/retention of Boban, which he agrees was “100%” dictated by Cuban, who is a fan of Boban’s crowd-pleasing qualities.
 
4.  Tim doesn’t think Dragic is particularly interested in coming here any more after the trade, since he can likely get a more important role elsewhere. 

I don't know what people think about Cato, but he does have sources in the front office. 

[vfromlmf]

Cato is a wet blanket. Even his positive comments about the Mavs come with a healthy dose of snark. Direct quote: "while the Mavericks are optimistic about how Dinwiddie and Bertāns might fit — more so than I am, I’ll add ..."

Not a fan.

Talented writer tho.

[soog]

Cato is a wet blanket. Even his positive comments about the Mavs come with a healthy dose of snark. Direct quote: "while the Mavericks are optimistic about how Dinwiddie and Bertāns might fit — more so than I am, I’ll add ..."

Not a fan.

Talented writer tho.

Seems like an appropriate comment.  I’d question his objectivity if he shared the company line with this trade. (Not with any trade, just specifically this trade)

[burekemde]

That is EXACTLY why this team traded KP for Dinwiddie and Bertans.

Well, that and flexibility. 

But my point is that teams can force Luka into being a scorer because when teams switch the Mavs didn't have anyone else who could consistently exploit their matchup and win. Maybe this year's version of Brunson can, but he couldn't win often enough against the Clippers length last year and I doubt he's grown an inch since high school. 

Dinwiddie gives this team another player who can win one-on-one when team's switch. 

Bertans gives this team a movement shooter who can cause certain problems that our stationary shooters like DFS and Kleber can't.

Fully agree, the flexibility on offense will be so much better. Bertans and Dinwiddie will far improve our offense flexibility and to get others involved and not only run Luka iso offense. But on defensive side? One KP is far better than what SD or Bertans combined can provide. We will face some tough matchups where we would wish we had KP. It all comes down to Maxi playing huge minutes, his role must and im fully convinced will increase. In case Maxi would not be able to play, this team will play without a true rim protector, which is essentially checkmate (against us) even with the offensive flexibility. All in all, I love the trade, and I believe Maxi will hold on the defensive side his increased role, while the increase flexibility on offense will outweight the defensive losses of KP gone.

[Omega_Supreme]

Fully agree, the flexibility on offense will be so much better. Bertans and Dinwiddie will far improve our offense flexibility and to get others involved and not only run Luka iso offense. But on defensive side? One KP is far better than what SD or Bertans combined can provide. We will face some tough matchups where we would wish we had KP. It all comes down to Maxi playing huge minutes, his role must and im fully convinced will increase. In case Maxi would not be able to play, this team will play without a true rim protector, which is essentially checkmate (against us) even with the offensive flexibility. All in all, I love the trade, and I believe Maxi will hold on the defensive side his increased role, while the increase flexibility on offense will outweight the defensive losses of KP gone.

Although I agree with your point, how much do we really miss KP in the size scenario because the last 2 playoff series he was a non factor both by being absent and injured. 

I would venture to say we carry the same risks we did the last two playoff series with the exception of having more offensive power now. 

I tend to look at it with a half glass full, just because KP was on the team, he was never actually relevant with the exception of a few playoff games. So did we really lose what he brings to the table?

[Chicagojk]

The following is a compendium of comments made by Tim Cato regarding front office matters and the trade, which I haven’t seen mentioned, but could have missed.

1.  This trade is very much a Cuban-driven transaction. Nico’s primary responsibility this season is to revamp the management structure, not to be the decision-maker on roster changes. This division of responsibilities makes a lot of sense, given Nico’s background and the organization’s needs. 

2.  The acquisition of SD and DB is primarily about flexibility in rebuilding the roster, not so much about what these players can provide on the court. However, the Mavs did have some interest in Dinwiddie as a player last summer. The interest was led by Cuban. He knows Dinwiddie personally, and they have bonded over their intense interest in crypto. 

3.  Cato referred to the acquisition/retention of Boban, which he agrees was “100%” dictated by Cuban, who is a fan of Boban’s crowd-pleasing qualities.
 
4.  Tim doesn’t think Dragic is particularly interested in coming here any more after the trade, since he can likely get a more important role elsewhere. 

I don't know what people think about Cato, but he does have sources in the front office. 

Thanks for posting.  Where did you find that?

That is super depressing.  Cuban is the owner so it is no surprise he has ultimate yes/no authority.  But if this is true above, we can all do the countdown to Luka leaving.   If Mark is making roster build/design decisions on talent, this is a lost cause.   Super downer.

[burekemde]

Although I agree with your point, how much do we really miss KP in the size scenario because the last 2 playoff series he was a non factor both by being absent and injured. 

I would venture to say we carry the same risks we did the last two playoff series with the exception of having more offensive power now. 

I tend to look at it with a half glass full, just because KP was on the team, he was never actually relevant with the exception of a few playoff games. So did we really lose what he brings to the table?

I agree to some extent, but it comes down the actual matchup. We have really only met Clippers. KP is a monster defensive force that can change many matchups. I have hard time believing we can alter anything defensively with Bertains and Dinwiddie anything close to what KP brings. Even with KP delegated to that standing in the corner role on offense. On defense he is a nightmare matchup in the paint.

KP standing in the corner shooting 3s- Bertans standing in the corner. KP dominating in the paint, Bertans will not be able to protect the paint. Already there, we are losing flexibility. We are a worse team if you look KP to Bertans swap. KP is a 20 ppg offensive player that can make 6 defensive blocks on his good defensive games. I Even if Bertans shoots well, and even that is clear KP is not a fit on this offense. When all is said and done, KP is 20 ppg player that provides excellent defense and delegates the opponents to shooting, and takes away the paint.

Dinwiddie however makes something up for that, and if Dinwiddie makes the second unit explode, this may not only make up for the downgrade from KP to Bertans, but also exceed how well we play.

[nielyn]

Thanks for posting.  Where did you find that?

That is super depressing.  Cuban is the owner so it is no surprise he has ultimate yes/no authority.  But if this is true above, we can all do the countdown to Luka leaving.   If Mark is making roster build/design decisions on talent, this is a lost cause.   Super downer.

It is from a combination of articles/podcasts -- points I hadn't seen discussed much. I think some of the more forthright comments may have been in one of Mavs Moneyball's green rooms. 

I might have stated it too negatively. Cato was taking a more neutral attitude toward it, reporting what his sources were saying, mostly, rather than saying things were good or bad. 

Supposedly, Cuban became low-key willing to trade KP, if the return was right, early in 2021, aided by KP indicating he would be receptive to that. But they never found a deal they thought was acceptable. Tim initially thought that they hadn't gotten any deals they were willing to do at this deadline either, but then the day before the deadline, the Mavs started aggressively looking for a deal for KP, and this was the offer they got. 

He seemed pretty confident in his information regarding Nico's responsibilities this season. Also thought it was just what made sense, given Nico's rich background in organizational management and the Mavs' need for restructuring, together with Nico's lack of any experience in roster management. That wasn't to say that Nico didn't have a role in roster decisions, just not the primary role. 

The Boban thing was definitely a Cuban-made-this-decision, but it reportedly wasn't made based on talent. More like, the 15th man isn't going to play anyway, might as well get a guy that the fans will love.

I think the Dragic thing was Cato's opinion. He didn't say it was sourced, anyway. But it makes sense. 

None of this was presented in the sense of this is the way things are going to be forever. More, this is what has happened so far. But I still thought it was interesting.

[vfromlmf]

we can all do the countdown to Luka leaving

No way in any universe that Luka didn't sign off on this trade. 

Taking a nap. lol

I don't think he's making demands or calling the shots whatsoever but this is a player's league and this is Luka's team. Luka traded KP just like KD traded Harden.

[KillerLeft]

The following is a compendium of comments made by Tim Cato regarding front office matters and the trade, which I haven’t seen mentioned, but could have missed.

1.  This trade is very much a Cuban-driven transaction. Nico’s primary responsibility this season is to revamp the management structure, not to be the decision-maker on roster changes. This division of responsibilities makes a lot of sense, given Nico’s background and the organization’s needs. 

2.  The acquisition of SD and DB is primarily about flexibility in rebuilding the roster, not so much about what these players can provide on the court. However, the Mavs did have some interest in Dinwiddie as a player last summer. The interest was led by Cuban. He knows Dinwiddie personally, and they have bonded over their intense interest in crypto. 

3.  Cato referred to the acquisition/retention of Boban, which he agrees was “100%” dictated by Cuban, who is a fan of Boban’s crowd-pleasing qualities.
 
4.  Tim doesn’t think Dragic is particularly interested in coming here any more after the trade, since he can likely get a more important role elsewhere. 

I don't know what people think about Cato, but he does have sources in the front office. 

Thanks for this. 

Most of this, if true (it probably is) is the most depressing form of the reality we're seeing play out in front of us right now. Normally, info like this would topple me into a week long depression. But, not today. Today, I'm still happy that Kristaps Porzingis is another team's problem from now on!

[nielyn]

Thanks for this. 

Most of this, if true (it probably is) is the most depressing form of the reality we're seeing play out in front of us right now. Normally, info like this would topple me into a week long depression. But, not today. Today, I'm still happy that Kristaps Porzingis is another team's problem from now on!

Yes, I am too!

After hearing these things, I didn't feel depressed. More like a number of things that I had felt some confusion about fell into place in a way that seemed to make sense. Not in the sense that they were good or bad, but that it made sense that is what happened.

[omahen]

No way in any universe that Luka didn't sign off on this trade. 

Taking a nap. lol

I don't think he's making demands or calling the shots whatsoever but this is a player's league and this is Luka's team. Luka traded KP just like KD traded Harden.

I can't claim that I know. But, Luka grew up in environment which is not player driven. Personally, I believe his statements (wants to be involved a little, but not too much).

[vfromlmf]

I can't claim that I know. But, Luka grew up in environment which is not player driven. Personally, I believe his statements (wants to be involved a little, but not too much).

That's fair, you may be right. But I'd be surprised if someone didn't at least ask "Hey, you good if we move KP?" That's just good business in any industry, whether it's basketball or not. If you have a star performer you don't just fire his right hand man without notice. Key guys have stroke.

[nielyn]

That's fair, you may be right. But I'd be surprised if someone didn't at least ask "Hey, you good if we move KP?" That's just good business in any industry, whether it's basketball or not. If you have a star performer you don't just fire his right hand man without notice. Key guys have stroke.

My impression was that Luka had indicated that he was okay with the idea that KP could be traded. And so was KP, at least at some points. But that Luka was not especially involved in the details of the actual transaction. This is as opposed to KD, who at least if reports are correct, was the guy who went to the front office and told them to pull the trigger on trading Harden.