TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[KillerLeft]

I understand they really wanted to get off KP. Why not choose the deal that gets you a first AND Luka's buddy Goran then?

Apply logic. 

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.

[cow]

So here is another question:

Why in the world do you not insist to ADD Thomas Bryant to the trade, if necessary via the TPE.

The Wizards are tanking. Bryant is expiring.

Thomas Bryant is 24 years old. Last year he averaged 14/6, shooting 64% from the field, 42% from 3pt range.

I guess the Mavs didn´t want him either, right.

Answer:  Mark Cuban

[Mavs2021]

Apply logic. 

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.

Well what are the odds that you come to the correct conclusion?

[DrMav]

I was surprised at first, too.

I think it should tell us something about how two, smaller bad contracts are preferred over one, huge one, even if the money is the same, overall. 

People are acting like the Mavs did a salary dump for WAS, and I get how they're looking at it that way (added a year of hell, potentially). But that pick signals to me that it was Dallas trying to dump KP, not the other way around. 

Can't say this enough: they just flat out wanted KP off the team. That was the biggest goal here.

I think we all hoped that changing up the FO, even with Cuban remaining the central figure would result in positive changes. Maybe the decision making will be proven to be improved, but this at least argues that negotiating skills remain poor.

In my fictional multiverse for this, the Mavs should have gotten a pick 950/1000 times, come out neutral 49/1000 times, and give up a pick 1/1000. Even if goal #2 of the season after winning a championship was getting rid of KP, this part of the deal remains ridiculous to me.

[Winter]

Then I look at Bertans shooting 32% on 4 threes in FIFTEEN minutes a game, makes me want to drink more. 

By almost everyone's calculation, this season is an outlier for Bertans. He has hit 40% on 3's for his career.

Every player in this trade needed a change of venue. But KP is not a player that can "come off the bench" to play. The Mavs weren't going to do that to KP. Both Dinwiddie and Bertans will come off the bench... and not complain about it.

[KillerLeft]

Well what are the odds that you come to the correct conclusion?

Not quite following, sorry. 

Is this an overt insult of my intelligence, or are you trying to add nuance to my point? 

No judgement on either, I just want to know if it's worth engaging further.

[omahen]

Apply logic.

This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad

[cow]

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

Or they didn't know how to find a better deal.  We tend to have favorites with the teams we like to do business with.

[SatnamSingh]

Apply logic. 

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

I think they picked this deal because they think Dinwiddie and Bertans can help them win now.

I think they're complete idiots that didn't pick the "better deal" because they didnt want to come away "empty handed" for KP.  They can sell this as two rotation players in exchange for KP.

[michaeltex]

Apply logic. 

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.

IF the huge contracts of Hardin, Wall, CP3 (twice!) and others can be moved, then the relatively small deals of Bertans and Dinwiddie are tradeable. 

TBH, I'm a little surprised DAL even found a trading partner for KP. Since the team has been playing well without him, I don't think the trade will have any on-court negatives this year. It will be more about getting the new guys integrated and there is an ASB coming up to help with that.

[Mavs2021]

This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad

BINGO.

@"KillerLeft" 

There is your answer.

[KillerLeft]

I think we all hoped that changing up the FO, even with Cuban remaining the central figure would result in positive changes.

I hate the resulting roster (today), but I could look you in the eye with a straight face and claim that letting go of the stubborn need to prove KP is a star (he's not) or even a fit with Luka (he's not) by keeping him and pretending everything is fine IS a positive change. 

But who knows, this might've happened anyway, even with Donnie. I think it was just time.

[SatnamSingh]

Not quite following, sorry. 

Is this an overt insult of my intelligence, or are you trying to add nuance to my point? 

No judgement on either, I just want to know if it's worth engaging further.

He's saying his logic suggests the Mavs are complete idiots.

Your point was that logic would lead you to believe they couldnt do better.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

BINGO.

@"KillerLeft" 

There is your answer.

Yes, surely it couldn't be because you overvalued a potential KP return package.

But hey now we have a reason to go after you boy Mo Bamba.

[SleepingHero]

Apply logic. 

What's more likely, that the Mavs are complete idiots, or that a more favorable deal than this one simply didn't exist? 

I honestly think that either A) KP's contract is so hated that a more traditional salary dump offer wasn't out there or B) for some reason, the Mavs didn't want his money to expire. They wanted to chop it up into (slightly) more movable pieces.

The fact that I'm honestly considering the two choices is enough to sow doubt that they POSSIBLY didn't choose a more favorable deal on the table. 

I don't think KP's contract was as hated as we're trying to rationalize. I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic. KP for all of his positives just didn't play in enough games and the Mavs wanted to turn him into some guys that could contribute. It remains to be seen if Dinwiddie and Bertans can contribute to a playoff team. The fact we're unsure means it's a bad trade from the get-go no matter what. 

Still the Mavs sold as low as they possibly could have, which is just piss poor asset management. If you're giving up your supposed 2nd best player and eating a bad contract in the process, you have to get AT LEAST get something in return. Whether that be a first, a prospect like Kispert, Avdija, Rui, or even a freaking 2nd. 

The Mavs failed so hard at that. Which has been a common theme in EVERY TRADE they've made the last 4 years. The only constant is Cuban. He's a buffoon.

[fifteenth]

We should absolutely have asked for a FRP and stood firm.

If that's your position I take no issue with it. I'm not confident in my ability to know whether the Mavs should have been able to extract a first. But where I disagree is that I'm glad they didn't keep KP rather than take the available trade. Getting a first would have been better, but imo, moving KP is better than keeping him until the summer.

[SatnamSingh]

 I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic. 

This is where I am also.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I don't think KP's contract was as hated as we're trying to rationalize. I really do think the Mavs (read Cuban) liked Dinwiddie and rehabbing Bertans versus trading KP for air and Dragic. KP for all of his positives just didn't play in enough games and the Mavs wanted to turn him into some guys that could contribute. It remains to be seen if Dinwiddie and Bertans can contribute to a playoff team. The fact we're unsure means it's a bad trade from the get-go no matter what. 

Still the Mavs sold as low as they possibly could have, which is just piss poor asset management. If you're giving up your supposed 2nd best player and eating a bad contract in the process, you have to get AT LEAST get something in return. Whether that be a first, a prospect like Kispert, Avdija, Rui, or even a freaking 2nd. 

There's only 30 people on earth who know how true those bolded statements are.

[cow]

Ujiri probably asked for a FRP.

[KillerLeft]

This would be logical, if Mavs had a history of success. Problem is, that Mavs have a history of failures. So using logic, one could conclude that this deal is bad

No argument there. 

I'm just saying, I think this is them trying to get out from under what might be the worst mistake they've ever made. I don't like how they did it, and have said so many times, but damnit, I'm happy to finally have KP in the rearview mirror. They think this is a step in the right direction, I'm sure, both on the court and in terms of flexibility, and they were unable to find a deal they liked better. 

We'll see what happens. 

I'm just trying to understand it. We're powerless to act, and we don't know what was available/not available, so the fun part to me is trying to figure out why they did what they did. 

Trading for KP was a bad move (I would've made it, too).

Signing him to that MASSIVE extension without ever seeing him play a single game in a Mavs uniform was a terrible move (I would've made it, too). 

I'm way not excited about Dinwiddie/Bertans, believe me, but I think there's a decent chance this is a reasonable stepping stone along a path out of this mess.