To Ball Screen or To Pass

[fifteenth]

Have you guys followed the story of Bellermine University?

They dominated D-II for years, and then, surprisingly, moved up to D-I and continued to win. 

What makes them different from most teams? They don't dribble around ball screens. They pass. They pass like no one else. 

I feel like this video should be entered as an exhibit into our offensive scheme discussion. 

Check it out and let us know what you think. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2T4bJh165g

[ballsrchr]

Alright!  I like it.  This is somewhat like I would coach a team, though I would dribble a bit more.  What I like about Bellarmine  is it is close to being heleocentric in the way I believe it should be.  Rather than orbit around a point forward, or point guard, or point center, etc. the team (players) should orbit around the basket.  In other words...heleocentric around the basket.  Hybrid since you only have half a circle to orbit around.  The object of the game--the central goal--is to put the ball in the basket.  Any of the constantly moving players can score or pass as needed...but there should always be a purpose to movement.

[KillerLeft]

Very interesting, @"fifteenth". The last time I remember seeing an NBA team run anything like this was Miami in the bubble, and it wasn't exactly this...but it was a motion based, hold the ball and watch the motion play out type of approach. Ultimately, the Lakers made it look pretty foolish. 

I don't like like the chances of this working in the NBA. I'd like to go back to the "spreading the floor, setting a screen and allowing a playmaker to probe the defense" style that was described as " the way of life in college basketball" (and the NBA too, of course). 

SPACE

[fifteenth]

Very interesting, @"fifteenth". The last time I remember seeing an NBA team run anything like this was Miami in the bubble, and it wasn't exactly this...but it was a motion based, hold the ball and watch the motion play out type of approach. Ultimately, the Lakers made it look pretty foolish. 

I don't like like the chances of this working in the NBA. I'd like to go back to the "spreading the floor, setting a screen and allowing a playmaker to probe the defense" style that was described as " the way of life in college basketball" (and the NBA too, of course). 

SPACE

I agree. I just responded to @"dirkfansince1998" in that other thread. Even though I love the idea of creating offense off of passing, I don't think being this pass heavy fits Luka or the rest of our roster. However, I do think we need some sort of middle ground between that allows the Luka centric, spread pnr to thrive and not get stagnant.

[ballsrchr]

This from fifteenth on another thread responding to dirksfansince1998: 

After I listened to Locked on Mavs I found that video about passing that I started another thread with. Considering all of it together, I think I agree with you that, of course, a super pass heavy offense is not the only way to produce an efficient offense. And regarding the Mavs, I don't know that a pass heavy offense is the best way to maximize a Luka lead team, or the best use of the Mavs current roster. 

However, I can see the need for diversification. Producing more motion and passing for possessions where Luka is off the ball makes sense to me. And a coach intentionally calling for possessions where Luka is off the ball makes sense to me. 

Somehow the team has to maximize Luka (which may very well be something like 5-out or spread pnr), but also have a back up plan that adds unpredictability, gives Luka a break, and gives our non-Luka players a chance to succeed when Luka's out and/or when he plays off the ball. It seems like the movement and passing that we've seen while Luka has been out over the last 8 games could be a possible answer or that back up plan, or secondary piece of the offensive system.



Good thoughts.

I don't know how to quote and/or reply to several posts at a time.  I just want to say that there has been a lot of great threads with really good suggestions and/or information.  This kind of stuff is what makes the game great.  I have absolutely no interest in deep diving basketball theory or picking games apart second by second.  But I am competitive and was ranked above average in several sports (when I was young!).  As an older gentleman I compete vicariously...so...I want my team to do good--and this includes this forum.  Right now the forum is outperforming the team!

[fifteenth]

Good thoughts.

I don't know how to quote and/or reply to several posts at a time.  I just want to say that there has been a lot of great threads with really good suggestions and/or information.  This kind of stuff is what makes the game great.  I have absolutely no interest in deep diving basketball theory or picking games apart second by second.  But I am competitive and was ranked above average in several sports (when I was young!).  As an older gentleman I compete vicariously...so...I want my team to do good--and this includes this forum.  Right now the forum is outperforming the team!

ball, there is an icon below each post on Light Theme that look like a quote bubble with a little + symbol in the lower left of the quote bubble. You can use that button to save quotes from posts, and then when you go to the editory to make your reply, there is a button for including your selected posts. 

And thanks for all your great contributions to the forum!

BTW, which sports and positions were you best at?

[ballsrchr]

ball, there is an icon below each post on Light Theme that look like a quote bubble with a little + symbol in the lower left of the quote bubble. You can use that button to save quotes from posts, and then when you go to the editory to make your reply, there is a button for including your selected posts. 

And thanks for all your great contributions to the forum!

BTW, which sports and positions were you best at?

Ah...I understand.

Track--short races, or long races, cross country.  I equaled the world record for the 50 yard dash (hand timed) back in the very early 60's.  Unfortunately--as a short, stocky, muscular runner--the long legged guys would catch me at 70-75 yards and beat me at 100 yards.  Nationally ranked amateur bowler, and a fairly good marathon paddler here in Texas.  Marathon paddling meaning paddling canoes and kayaks in long distance races generally from 10 to 100 miles...not the kinky type of paddling that some might be thinking of... 

I will also say that I didn't at all like playing in team sports, though I did.  I hated depending on the play of other people... 

Can't run much any more, can't bowl at all (maybe if I got paid a million for one game), but I can still paddle pretty good...for an old geezer.  I'm not really old.  I just pretend to be...

[fifteenth]

Ah...I understand.

Track--short races, or long races, cross country.  I equaled the world record for the 50 yard dash (hand timed) back in the very early 60's.  Unfortunately--as a short, stocky, muscular runner--the long legged guys would catch me at 70-75 yards and beat me at 100 yards.  Nationally ranked amateur bowler, and a fairly good marathon paddler here in Texas.  Marathon paddling meaning paddling canoes and kayaks in long distance races generally from 10 to 100 miles...not the kinky type of paddling that some might be thinking of... 

I will also say that I didn't at all like playing in team sports, though I did.  I hated depending on the play of other people... 

Can't run much any more, can't bowl at all (maybe if I got paid a million for one game), but I can still paddle pretty good...for an old geezer.  I'm not really old.  I just pretend to be...

Awesome. I was a long distance guy in middle and high school. My best brag is that I could run 1.5 miles in 8 minutes. My best old man brag is that I completed the Hotter Than Hell Hundred bicycle race. 

But long distance canoeing sounds fun. I'd love to plan out a multi-day conoe and camp trip sometime. Have you done any of that?

[ballsrchr]

Awesome. I was a long distance guy in middle and high school. My best brag is that I could run 1.5 miles in 8 minutes. My best old man brag is that I completed the Hotter Than Hell Hundred bicycle race. 

But long distance canoeing sounds fun. I'd love to plan out a multi-day conoe and camp trip sometime. Have you done any of that?

Oh yeah...lots of multi-day trips.  Texas has quite a few good rivers for long trips.  The marathon races, though, were non-stop.  The best time I did for the 100 miles, on the Colorado from Bastrop to Columbus, was 16 hours and some minutes.  Can't remember exactly.  I have taken a lot longer.  Just depends on the shoals, hazards, water flow, dams, etc.  

I tried to do bicycling, but the seat is just too damned uncomfortable...and the cars whizzing by just scared me to death.  I didn't get old(er) by tempting fate...too much.

Sorry for getting your thread off track a bit.  Suffice it to say I'd like to see the Mavs cutting, rotating, and moving with purpose a lot more.  It has been fun watching these emergency 10 day guys...

[fifteenth]

Sorry for getting your thread off track a bit.

No problem! I love off track threads!!

[KillerLeft]

No problem! I love off track threads!!

They are much better for science.

[fifteenth]

They are much better for science.

What if I'm actually here at Mavsboard to observe all of you guys, and gather information, for my big science experiment?

[KillerLeft]

What if I'm actually here at Mavsboard to observe all of you guys, and gather information, for my big science experiment?

That would connect a few dots for me. At least one of us would have a good reason to be here!

[fifteenth]

That would connect a few dots for me. At least one of us would have a good reason to be here!

Well, I'm not actually here for science. So those dots have to remain unconnected! 

These days, interacting with pals probably has as much pull as the Mavs. But then...there's always the chance that the Mavs get moving in the right direction again...

Therein lies the core of Mavs message board addiction, I think.

[BackToSquareOne]

Have you guys followed the story of Bellermine University?

They dominated D-II for years, and then, surprisingly, moved up to D-I and continued to win. 

What makes them different from most teams? They don't dribble around ball screens. They pass. They pass like no one else. 

I feel like this video should be entered as an exhibit into our offensive scheme discussion. 

Check it out and let us know what you think. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2T4bJh165g

Super interesting. Really like this post.

[ballsrchr]

What if I'm actually here at Mavsboard to observe all of you guys, and gather information, for my big science experiment?

Then you should be able to find lots of information...Igor.  We are just rats in a maze.

[hakeemfaan]

The Mavs don’t need to fundamentally change anything. You can see that with Luka out the ball moves much better and while you can’t replace someone like that being out, it is not as if the team is turning over the ball left and right or the ball is not moving because we don’t have Luka. To the contrary, we seem to be doing better in those areas. 

This should be a wake up call to Luka and also some who keep defending his flaws saying that he is doing so only because the roster around him is bad. Yes the roster should be improved but there is no reason for Luka to develop bad habits. It will hurt in the long run but more importantly even with this roster it is not needed in the short run either. So why do it?

Take what the defense is giving him. If they are doubling and forcing the ball out of his hands, he has to understand that he has done his job and there is an open player somewhere else on the court. Let someone else bring up the ball about 50% of the time. The great ones do force some shots when they are in the zone but that should not be the norm. More importantly he should understand no one can be Steph and there is no need to either. Steph cannot do some of the things Luka can. Luka maturing is what our offense needs more than anything else.