ARTICLE: "Luka Doncic and Rick Carlisle: The dissolution of their relationship"

[BasketballJones41]

The bottom rung players were who Jimmie Johnson belittled. Once upon a time it was "the way things are" with coaches.

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I think it was more that the vets didn't want to follow, or defer to, a rookie.

It’s not worth rehashing but I don’t remember them having an issue deferring to DSJ. Of course Jordan wasn’t here Dennis’s rookie year so who knows how he would’ve reacted.

[cow]

It's why I've never been has harsh as most in regards to Rondo.  I'm not saying he had no faults in the fallout but for as great as a coach as Rick is, he's an absolute asshole.  His schtick just doesn't work in the modern NBA which is much more relationship driven now that players have so much more control of their careers.

So if this article is true then DSJ and Luka didn’t have any issues with each other. So then what led to the Barnes, Matthews, VAJ freeze out of Luka? Because I thought it was all over the fact that they thought DSJ should be the number one option. So maybe those three were just pricks?

A combo of rookie hazing and veteran pride.

[SwisherPrice]

The MBT was a shitshow...should have been blown up as soon as Dirk stepped off the court. I can understand keeping everything in place to keep Dirk happy in his final years but once that was over, RC and Donnie should have been fired and the team could officially start over.

[BasketballJones41]

It's why I've never been has harsh as most in regards to Rondo.  I'm not saying he had no faults in the fallout but for as great as a coach as Rick is, he's an absolute asshole.  His schtick just doesn't work in the modern NBA which is much more relationship driven now that players have so much more control of their careers.


A combo of rookie hazing and veteran pride.

I’m 100% F rondo. Richard Jefferson even confirmed what an inexcusable little bitch Rondo was here. Obviously Rick had his issues as well but rondo is one thing I will never blame him for. 

The hazing thing might be true but why didn’t Barnes and Matthews do that to DSJ his rookie year?

[Mavs2021]

Remember when the whole sexual harrassment scandal hit the business operations side, and we heard how the closely Cuban supervised basketball side was a safe haven of happiness. In retrospective the translation would probably read: Nobody got sexually harrassed or physical abused during basketball operations.

What has come out over the last 2-3 years from all areas of the organization is even worse than what I assumed. And that´s saying a lot.

I´m at the point I count Dirk´s one ring as 10, because he basically won an NBA title with a James Vivek Dolan-esque owner. Also made it seem like this organization is not batshit crazy.

[cow]

I’m 100% F rondo. Richard Jefferson even confirmed what an inexcusable little bitch Rondo was here. Obviously Rick had his issues as well but rondo is one thing I will never blame him for. 

The hazing thing might be true but why didn’t Barnes and Matthews do that to DSJ his rookie year?

Rondo is a headcase no doubt and he was probably extra after being ditched by the team he helped win a championship for.  That's why the Celtics were willing to trade him.  That was no secret.  Yet the Mavs still pulled the trigger.  Like I said, Rondo isn't without fault but putting Rondo with Carlisle is probably the worst pairing one could come up with.  Dude is still in the league and was a major reason why the Lakers chipped in '20.

DSJ and Luka are different stratospheres of players.  DSJ was way less of a threat to Barnes, Wes and DAJ.  Luka coming up in Europe and being a bonified star probably didn't help either.

Remember when the whole sexual harrassment scandal hit the business operations side, and we heard how the closely Cuban supervised basketball side was a safe haven of happiness. In retrospective the translation would probably read: Nobody got sexually harrassed or physical abused during basketball operations.

What has come out over the last 2-3 years from all areas of the organization is even worse than what I assumed. And that´s saying a lot.

I´m at the point I count Dirk´s one ring as 10, because he basically won an NBA title with a James Vivek Dolan-esque owner. Also made it seem like this organization is not batshit crazy.

I never really believed Cuban's crocodile tears about not being involved in the business side of the operations.  As if that's a good excuse in the first place.

[chaparral]

Today is 12/15, Mavs fans have been waiting for this day for over a month.  We want Trades today, not this old bombshell news of how bad the MBT use to be.

Damnit, we want Trade News Today...

[omahen]

Damnit, we want Trade News Today...

Me too, but

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...7997437953

[mavsluvr]

Specifics on article 

The article contains some new tidbits, but also includes a lot of things we already knew. Here is a rough attempt to sort out what is new, or at least a new slant, along with a few comments. I am not taking a position here on the quality of the article as a whole or of any human that it mentions. These are comments on the specifics. 

1. The article is very DSJ-centric. DSJ appears to have been a primary source for the article, so we should probably keep that in mind in considering it. Maybe Rick's alleged mistreatment of DSJ was a central factor in Luka’s supposed disgruntlement. Maybe it wasn’t. DSJ seems to see it that way 
   

2.   Mavs didn’t think Luka-DSJ backcourt duo could compete, but didn’t publicly announce their opinion once they had agreed on it. Maybe allowed the Luka-DSJ friendship to flourish without telling Luka that DSJ might not be long for the the team.(Doesn’t seem unusual.)

3.   Rick doubted that DSJ was NBA-starter quality, and wanted to draft Donovan Mitchell instead. (These views were evidently unpopular at the time, but, in retrospect, they did have the advantage of being right.) 

4.   A major incident in the Luka-hated-Rick-for mistreating-his-friends presentation was Rick publicly yelling at Salah for getting two quick techs. This incident occurred before Luka was ever drafted, and Rick publicly apologized for it. 

5.   Front office regretted letting Barea go during last year’s pre-season. (I would believe this. They brought JJB back, in some limited capacity.) 

6.   Carlisle put KP in the corner in the playoffs because he was convinced that KP was unable to punish the Lakers’ switching defense on post-ups. (Well?)

7.  An incident is related regarding Luka becoming publicly furious at Carlisle for taking him out when he was in foul trouble, then sitting for a while with his back to the court, and shouting and cursing at Rick on returning to the bench. The players thought Luka cursing out Carlisle was all in a day’s work. Rick said he practiced “selective deafness.” (This seems to paint Luka in a very unprofessional light.) 

8.  Luka requested that Carlisle cancel his scheduled trip to Slovenia in the summer, citing Luka’s need to concentrate on his efforts with his national team. The suggestion seems to be that maybe Luka really didn’t want any distractions, or maybe he particularly didn’t want Rick around. (Could have been both.)

9.  Cuban originally intended to have Rick coach this season. Rick, having two seasons left on his contract, broached the subject of an extension and was rebuffed. He resigned within the week. (Sounds like Rick might have been willing to stay, but sensed that the organization was no longer committed to him.)

10.  Three weeks later, Cuban hired Kidd without seriously considering any other candidate. (Think we suspected this, but now we know, assuming article is reliable on this point. I would believe it.)

11.  KP feels “refreshed” and is “having more fun” now that Carlisle is gone. Luka and Kidd haven’t had any public dust-ups. The players seem to be enjoying the team “vibe” more. But the performance on the court is more disappointing than ever. (And therein lies the rub.)

[omahen]

https://twitter.com/JusAnderson1/status/...5264545797

[fifteenth]

https://twitter.com/JusAnderson1/status/...5264545797

Wow! Nice!

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/JusAnderson1/status/...5264545797

[mavsluvr]

Overall comments on article --

I don't have a problem with investigative journalism in sports. There aren't many media types in the DFW market who are willing to risk it, so I generally applaud the few who are. 

The article overall is subject to a criticism that can often be leveled at investigative journalism these days, given the pressure on the journalists to produce views. When something smells a little fishy and  you closely examine some of the stories, it's not that they're wrong, exactly. It's that they're presented in such a manner as to seem more controversial or more significant than maybe they really were. This is pretty common, and I think Tim does some of that here. He's got to make a living. 

Overall takeaways that the article seems to be an attempt at presenting --

1. Nobody liked Rick. 

2  Rick really did have a doghouse, and was determined to make its residents miserable.

3. Luka did a lot of shouting and cursing at Carlisle, even in public at games. 

4. DSJ got the short end of the stick. 

5. Cuban didn't do much in the way of addressing the dysfunction other than canning Donnie and then hiring Kidd without conducting the usual search process. 

6. Some of the problems with the team culture seem improved, but the on-court performance is disappointing.

[fifteenth]

Man, it would have been so cool if Justin had been a player. I was cheering hard for him.

[omahen]

Click on tweet for whole comment

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...0731732993

[dirkfansince1998]

Man, it would have been so cool if Justin had been a player. I was cheering hard for him.

I had high hopes after the playoff series against the Thunder. He was the only player that could at least force KD into tough shots. But I think that was more about the complete lack of wing defenders on the roster. The three guard lineup era featuring Devin Harris, Raymond Felton and JJB.

[chaparral]

Me too, but

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...7997437953

Thanks for posting.

[Tyler]

The article overall is subject to a criticism that can often be leveled at investigative journalism these days, given the pressure on the journalists to produce views. When something smells a little fishy and you closely examine some of the stories, it's not that they're wrong, exactly. It's that they're presented in such a manner as to seem more controversial or more significant than maybe they really were. This is pretty common, and I think Tim does some of that here. He's got to make a living. 

Yep. As an example, any retelling of the relationship between Carlisle and DSJ that doesn't mention how DSJ quit on the team because he wanted to be traded to a team where he'd be the featured PG is IMO a lie by omission. Carlisle may indeed be an ass, but MacMahon's new habit of dropping rehashed negative stories the day of a Mavs game on ESPN is pretty transparently self-serving at this point.

But eventually this will blow over. And I look forward to 2025 when Tim releases his hard-hitting expose on newsworthy events happening this season.

[cow]

Man, it would have been so cool if Justin had been a player. I was cheering hard for him.

Micah is the real Lion and generational talent in Dallas.

[khaled1987]

Click on tweet for whole comment

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...0731732993

tbf, Mcmahon actually said the same exact things on podcast months ago,  I think it was with Brian Windhorst. 
Which in itself is a bit weird IMO, why sacrifice such story for podcast, then why you say it now in an article? 
The only new info, if my memory serve me right, is that RC actually wanted Mitchell.