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#21
I hate to side track a topic in this thread that I have not been able to fully catch up on yet(Sabonis talk)...

I apologize if my main point in this comment has already been discussed...

It seems like a lot of posters are suggesting Sabonis is exactly what we need.  That might be the case.   What I am concerned about is the amount of assets needed to get him.   Seems like I have read the last few days of it costing a pretty penny.  I fear Sabonis isnt Modern NBA athletically/switchability.  He looked bad in the Bubble or last year in the Play In...one of those he looked really bad....not even close to All-Star material.   This isnt even taking into account his supposed questionable defense.  I dont care about a bunch of reg season stats being thrown at me.  Is he really the perfect fit for our offensive scheme to the point we flush a bunch of assets for him?   Is he Playoff Playable?

Again...sorry if this has already been discussed.
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#22
(12-14-2021, 04:48 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I hate to side track a topic in this thread that I have not been able to fully catch up on yet(Sabonis talk)...

I apologize if my main point in this comment has already been discussed...

It seems like a lot of posters are suggesting Sabonis is exactly what we need.  That might be the case.   What I am concerned about is the amount of assets needed to get him.   Seems like I have read the last few days of it costing a pretty penny.  I fear Sabonis isnt Modern NBA athletically/switchability.  He looked bad in the Bubble or last year in the Play In...one of those he looked really bad....not even close to All-Star material.   This isnt even taking into account his supposed questionable defense.  I dont care about a bunch of reg season stats being thrown at me.  Is he really the perfect fit for our offensive scheme to the point we flush a bunch of assets for him?   Is he Playoff Playable?

Again...sorry if this has already been discussed.
I can’t speak for what he looked like in the bubble or the play in last year but as far as cost goes Jake Fisher reported that the Pacers have received very mixed feedback about him. That’s why I think we might have an opportunity. Because he might not be receiving that much trade interest so we may be able to get it done for JB plus filler.
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#23
(12-14-2021, 04:53 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: I can’t speak for what he looked like in the bubble or the play in last year but as far as cost goes Jake Fisher reported that the Pacers have received very mixed feedback about him. That’s why I think we might have an opportunity. Because he might not be receiving that much trade interest so we may be able to get it done for JB plus filler.

I mean...If you think he would really work great with Luka...and could get it done for a reasonable price...yeah.

I fear throwing a bunch of assets to get him...and in two years if it doesnt pan out posters talking about how he isnt Modern NBA.  And then complaining about us not having assets to do anything.  Plus...the Bubble or Play In...maybe it was both...it may have been a bad match up...but he underwhelmed.

Maybe getting the mixed offers is strengthening my suspicion on Sabonis overall game.

I guess what I am trying to say is...

1) Dont piss away assets

and 

2) If you do use a bunch of assets...please let the player be a modern player

I hope that makes sense.

And yes...for those that just want to argue just to argue...yes...I would have been wrong on Jokic.   But...how many of the Jokic types actually work out!?
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#24
(12-14-2021, 05:04 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I mean...If you think he would really work great with Luka...and could get it done for a reasonable price...yeah.

I fear throwing a bunch of assets to get him...and in two years if it doesnt pan out posters talking about how he isnt Modern NBA.   Plus...the Bubble or Play In...maybe it was both...it may have been a bad match up...but he underwhelmed.

Maybe getting the mixed offers is strengthening my suspicion on Sabonis overall game.

I guess what I am trying to say is...

1) Dont piss away assets

and 

2) If you do use a bunch of assets...please let the player be a modern player

I hope that makes sense.

And yes...for those that just want to argue just to argue...yes...I would have been wrong on Jokic.   But...how many of the Jokic types actually work out!?
All fair points man. I believe in Sabonis but it’s possible that I’m wrong for it. My interest in him is strengthened by the possibility of not having to burn much for him. Like I said if we’re just talking JB plus filler then hell yeah. And it might not be that far-fetched. I think Brunson is valued around the league and if the Pacers really are looking for a point guard it helps that he’s already got a history with Rick.
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#25
(12-14-2021, 04:48 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: I hate to side track a topic in this thread that I have not been able to fully catch up on yet(Sabonis talk)...

I apologize if my main point in this comment has already been discussed...

It seems like a lot of posters are suggesting Sabonis is exactly what we need.  That might be the case.   What I am concerned about is the amount of assets needed to get him.   Seems like I have read the last few days of it costing a pretty penny.  I fear Sabonis isnt Modern NBA athletically/switchability.  He looked bad in the Bubble or last year in the Play In...one of those he looked really bad....not even close to All-Star material.   This isnt even taking into account his supposed questionable defense.  I dont care about a bunch of reg season stats being thrown at me.  Is he really the perfect fit for our offensive scheme to the point we flush a bunch of assets for him?   Is he Playoff Playable?

Again...sorry if this has already been discussed.

This is my take on the Luka style offense.

When he gets in the paint (being that number 1 guy to touch the ball), we all know he can get to the rim (if no double team) or he can kick it out to the shooters (in case of double team). Finally, if not double teamed, he has the option to pass to the roll player (Powell) attacking the rim for a dunk. All this tends to stall the offense, albeit effective to large extent. Not to Lukas fault, but because number 2 player receiving the ball usually doesn't know how to drive+pass. It always ends either with a shot (DFS, Maxi, THJ etc.), or a dunk attempt (Powell) or Luka finishing at the rim. Rarely, it ends at number 3 player, and almost never at number 4, 5 or back to some that already touched the ball.

For offensive ball movement, the two main skills are driving/penetration and passing, and you need both in my view, as some level of shooting as well. You need to keep the defense honest, thus you need to know how to drive and finish at the rim, as well as shoot. if not, you will not be able to move the ball, just stand outside and wait and be stationary and the defenses will not double you further. Then passing skills are also key, because if you drive and the defense collapses on you, you need to be able to find and pass to the next guy (number 3).

No other player on this team (DP, KP, WCS, Maxi included) has the ability to, after setting the screen, to make proper positioning around the paint and receive the pass from Luka (as the number 2 player), and then further from this position either attack the rim and penetrate, or drive and pass to the open player. Luka does miss this option. And he has the bbIQ to exploit it, in case a player as Sabonis would be around him.

Sabonis has all those skills. If he would set the screen to Luka, he would always be an easy outlet (2nd player). From there Sabonis can shoot, drive, penetrate, and if necessary and space enough either finish at the rim, or if defenses collapse, pass it out, to number 3 guy.

Thus, in my view, this would seriously increase the offensive flow. And this would increase the number of times the third player touches the ball, and would also make us a lot more versatile as offense.

Now also imagine JB in the same lineups being that third one to touch the ball (receiving the passes from Sabonis). He can also either shoot if open, or penetrate, and pass it out to number 4 (which could be Luka or Sabonis etc.). This offense would be hard to deal with and on completely different complexity level for defenses than the current one. 

Lukas and Sabonis game just match well on paper in my view. If it would work, in practice, I have no clue. But I think, based on their skillset, that they would make each other better. Which is NOT the case for Luka and KP.  Luka would thrive from those great screens he sets, and his assist numbers would increase a lot, because he would find Sabonis often around the paint, from where he would score better than he did in Indy with the space Luka could create from him. To me they appear to play the same style of offense, which could make them a real fit. Luka and KP, they play a very different style of offense. You need to create special schemes to make them both be effective.
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#26
I prefer Myles Turner to either KP or Sabonis.

KP and Brunson for Turner and Brogdon.
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#27
(12-14-2021, 08:24 AM)omahen Wrote: I honestly don't see the Sabonis fit, unless next move is to trade KP. But, if we have the assets to trade for Sabonis, couldn't we say this means we have assets for Grant? I guess his market value is around the same as Sabonis


I actually see them fit quite well. I imagine Sabonis doing Sabonis things in the place of Powell and to me it greatly fixes the offensive struggles of the team. Sabonis is an elite passer for a big man. Mavs usually have Powell flash the middle when Luka is doubled. Now imagine a 4 on 3 where KP is dive cutting to the rim with Sabonis at the top of the key.

Further, teams can't sag off of Sabonis when he's at the free throw line, like they do for Powell. 

The defense would be the biggest issue, but Sabonis can't possibly be any worse than Powell on that end. 

Also getting Sabonis (and his very team friendly deal) opens up a multitude of KP trades. Hopefully the Pacers really like whatever the Mavs have to offer. I like Dan's proposal of using Brunson as a way to get our 2023 pick back and subsequently in the deal.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#28
Giving up two first round picks, even if we return one for JB, seems crazy for Sabonis.
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#29
(12-14-2021, 08:21 PM)cow Wrote: Giving up two first round picks, even if we return one for JB, seems crazy for Sabonis.

I thought I was the only one.

Is he that good against stiff competition/playoff defenses?  Whats that track record like?

Or is he just look really really good on paper with Luka?  And is that a risk worth burning draft assets on?

Further...is what Sabonis does so well impossible to find in the draft?  Or is Sabonis skill set far beyond what you can find in the draft?  I get that drafting isnt guaranteed and Sabonis has a decent resume of competing in regular season.

Please dont waste a bunch of assets on a center that isnt great on defense.

I am not trying to sound like I am anti-Sabonis...im just saying do some major research before moving assets for a non-modern big with questionable defense.   Sabonis and Luka MIGHT be unstoppable...I dont know if I want a major setback in assets to find out.
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