MIKE SHEDD GIVES COACHING PERSPECTIVE ON MAVS

[mavsluvr]

I think the truth lies between the two POV's, too, but I don't think either of them was particularly well represented by your phrasing that I quoted. 

I don't think anyone believes Luka is "working as hard as he can," though I think it's fairly logical that a 22 year old might not understand (yet) just how hard he should be working to reach his potential. I'm sure he believes he is working extremely hard, it's just a matter of him learning how to calibrate those expectations for himself. 

I also don't think anyone believes he is is an "lazy oaf." I think the term lazy has been used to describe specific instances of his play, and while the language is harsh, I can't take issue with the commentary, having seen those instances of play for myself. 

I think the divergence of these two generalized opinions is actually about the extent to which this Luka conditioning thing is causing the disappointing results of this season, so far. On that point, I think the truth is likely somewhere in between the two POV's, as you say.

Perhaps you are right that the outer limits of each point of view are a little narrower than the language suggested. I won't quibble about that. 

I am not sure that I agree with the proposition that the argument is limited to what effect Luka's conditioning is causing. I think there is a sector of fans that is just outraged that Luka is not in peak shape, period, regardless of whether it has any effect on the court or not. A matter of setting an example, showing leadership, etc. I think I get that point of view, although I might or might not agree with how important it is in the big picture.  

I do agree that the most important aspect of the argument is the extent to which Luka's conditioning is causing the disappointing results of the season. I don't doubt that it is a factor. If it is the prime mover, we should soon know, assuming he can get in shape quickly with some rest and treatment. If, as I suspect, there are far bigger matters at play, then Luka can turn into Mr. Universe, and it won't make much difference. Believe me, I hope the main problem is Luka's conditioning, because that would be the easiest thing to rectify.

[F Gump]

This isn't really central to your point, which I think is an interesting contribution and well worth adding to the conversation, but to be technical, Mike is a former member of the coaching staff, which might have a little bit of bearing on how seriously we can read into his comments, either way. I'm sure he still has more access than we do, but then again, he has no pressing need to defend the team, I don't think.

Oh, ok. Didn't know. Good point.

[KillerLeft]

I think there is a sector of fans that is just outraged that Luka is not in peak shape, period, regardless of whether it has any effect on the court or not. A matter of setting an example, showing leadership, etc.

Ah, I see. My assumption (through context) is that those people are outraged because they believe Luka's conditioning is the main reason the Mavericks aren't performing as well as they expected. I don't think they're wrong about the conditioning, but I don't agree that it's the biggest fire needing to be put out at the moment.

[mavsluvr]

Ah, I see. My assumption (through context) is that those people are outraged because they believe Luka's conditioning is the main reason the Mavericks aren't performing as well as they expected. I don't think they're wrong about the conditioning, but I don't agree that it's the biggest fire needing to be put out at the moment.

Well, I think all of them are worried about the actual cause, but a segment of those also think that Luka should be in better shape as a matter of principle, even if it's not making much difference on the court. I think they have a point, actually, just don't know how critical it is if the forest is really burning down for other reasons. 

I sense that we agree that conditioning is an issue, but that other problems may loom larger.

[hakeemfaan]

Did it seem like I was trying to make the point that Luka shouldn't have to do his best? If so, I really need to sharpen up my writing skills. (Not a bad idea every so often in any case, I guess.)

Of course, Luka should do the best he can. I think he has been playing on that bad ankle for a long while now, and I might add to your list to consider not to keep trying to play hurt on an injury that isn't healing. I suppose that would also involve the coach and the training staff. 

Here is the point I was trying to make. Yes, all the players should keep their bodies in shape and keep working on their craft, and the coach should still try to tinker with the lineups and the systems, etc., because that's all any of them can do in the short term. 

But after 26 games, it seems to me that in the big picture this is all just amounting to taking a ball of string and some Elmer's glue to a fundamentally broken old clunker. This is not how I was viewing the season before it happened, but I am reluctantly coming to that conclusion now. Yes, they should keep doing whatever they can, but I think their efforts are pretty much an exercise in futility without a significant upgrade to the roster. Maybe an upgrade to the coaching too, although I am willing to say the jury is still out on that. 

Maybe this isn't even a point worth making, since there probably isn't anything to be done about it today or tomorrow. I just get the feeling sometimes, listen to Cuban talk about how they're still adjusting to the ball and all, that whoever is running the show at the Mavs is focusing on a few lightly singed trees and missing the fact that the forest is burning down around them. Hope I'm wrong, of course.

We just ended up back at the same point. 

I say the cast needs to be better but Luka needs to get rid of bad habits and control the things he can. 

You say yes Luka needs to control the things he can but the cast needs to be better. 

Luka can’t do anything about the cast being better. He can do everything about being the best Luka he can be. So he should be held accountable there.   I agree with you that it might not change anything right now. However the reason he needs to be held accountable there is that elite potential guys don’t necessarily win all the time. What they do is keep grinding and doing the things under their control, so that when the moment arrives they are ready to seize it. 

When I used to watch my kids play, I had always instructed them on how to move without the ball. Many times at lower levels other kids either have tunnel vision or don’t want to make the right play. So would the advice be for them to stop moving because it wouldn’t matter anyway or keep playing the right way because that then becomes a habit as opposed to forming bad habits?

[mavsluvr]

We just ended up back at the same point. 

I say the cast needs to be better but Luka needs to get rid of bad habits and control the things he can. 

You say yes Luka needs to control the things he can but the cast needs to be better. 

Luka can’t do anything about the cast being better. He can do everything about being the best Luka he can be. So he should be held accountable there.   I agree with you that it might not change anything right now. However the reason he needs to be held accountable there is that elite potential guys don’t necessarily win all the time. What they do is keep grinding and doing the things under their control, so that when the moment arrives they are ready to seize it. 

When I used to watch my kids play, I had always instructed them on how to move without the ball. Many times at lower levels other kids either have tunnel vision or don’t want to make the right play. So would the advice be for them to stop moving because it wouldn’t matter anyway or keep playing the right way because that then becomes a habit as opposed to forming bad habits?

What do we disagree on, hakeem? 

Seems like we both think Luka should do his best and the cast needs to be better.

[michaeltex]

What do we disagree on, hakeem? 

Seems like we both think Luka should do his best and the cast needs to be better.

Sorry to but in, but I think both points are stipulated by the majority here. 

The concern is that Luka is a team focus and is judged behind the curve of his critic's expectations for fitness and leadership, not without some validity.

I'm not thrilled with his performance so far this season, but I'm empathetic enough to understand that his schedule the last 1 1/2 years hasn't left much down time and willing to cut him some slack. Although I worry he's going to become Zion Junior if he doesn't pay attention to his health. 

That said, if the rest of the team was performing efficiently and Luka was an anchor on their success, then I'd be much more in favor of isolating him as the problem, but the problems are team-wide and having Luka 15 pounds lighter isn't going to solve that. 

I know Kidd wants to reduce dependency on 3pt scoring, but to shoot this poorly for this long with essentially the same roster that lit it up the last two years is concerning. The guys that are gone (excepting Curry) were not 3pt magicians either, so something is going on with scheme or confidence that isn't working.

[mavsluvr]

Sorry to but in, but I think both points are stipulated by the majority here. 

The concern is that Luka is a team focus and is judged behind the curve of his critic's expectations for fitness and leadership, not without some validity.

I'm not thrilled with his performance so far this season, but I'm empathetic enough to understand that his schedule the last 1 1/2 years hasn't left much down time and willing to cut him some slack. Although I worry he's going to become Zion Junior if he doesn't pay attention to his health. 

That said, if the rest of the team was performing efficiently and Luka was an anchor on their success, then I'd be much more in favor of isolating him as the problem, but the problems are team-wide and having Luka 15 pounds lighter isn't going to solve that. 

I know Kidd wants to reduce dependency on 3pt scoring, but to shoot this poorly for this long with essentially the same roster that lit it up the last two years is concerning. The guys that are gone (excepting Curry) were not 3pt magicians either, so something is going on with scheme or confidence that isn't working.

No apologies necessary, these are open conversations. 

There seems to be a variance of opinion as to just how much disgust Luka merits, with some being on the end of the spectrum holding him to the highest professional standards in all cases, and you and I maybe being a little more willing to consider the circumstances and cut him a bit of slack. I think both points of view have some merit, and I don't know that there is an objectively correct answer. Personally, I am less interested in pointing fingers than in looking to where we go from here.

Agree with your last paragraph. The continued collapse of the three-point shooting is confounding. There have been enough games now that I am not convinced by reassurances that the averages will inevitably regress to the mean. I don't think that's a given. 

I have studied some of the material about the Mavs getting as good looks as most any team in the league, but I'm not sure I agree with that. I heard one of the analytics guys (sorry I can't remember which one) on a podcast within the last week or so, and he was saying that the teams have their own proprietary stats on shot quality, realizing that most of the stats available to the public on that issue are "bunkum." 

That was because some of those stats only took into account location on the court and distance of the nearest defender, and didn't take into account such other important factors as the quality of the shooter. Thus, for example, an open shot for Powell would be treated as a equal quality shot as an open look for Steph. Maybe there is something to that, I don't know.

[KillerLeft]

I have studied some of the material about the Mavs getting as good looks as most any team in the league, but I'm not sure I agree with that. I heard one of the analytics guys (sorry I can't remember which one) on a podcast within the last week or so, and he was saying that the teams have their own proprietary stats on shot quality, realizing that most of the stats available to the public on that issue are "bunkum." 

Not only that, which makes sense, but as Voulgaris pointed out the other day during his conversation with the owner (and real face of the franchise), how those looks are generated matters greatly.

[fifteenth]

@"mavsluvr", I don't think I represent all Mavs fans, or even all Mavs fans who want Luka to be in shape. And I may be in danger of repeating stuff, but I think this answer addresses your speculation about what Mavs fans are after, so... 

I don't want Luka to be in shape because of "principle", or "outrage", or the look of his body. I want him to learn to eat right and take care of himself because I want Luka to be an all time great, not a John Wall or a James Harden. 

I feel for the guy and know that playing the amount of basketball he's played, and load he's had to carry over the last two years is insane. I would not have been suprised if an in shape Luka had a bit of an off year with some injuries to overcome just because of that. So I'm taking all of that in to account.

To carry a good bit of extra weight with his level of calorie usage, in my mind, points to bad diet and/or alchohol. For Luka to be an all time great I think he'll have to learn how to control his eating and minimize alcohol usage. It seems like the progress in health science and the direction of professional sports regarding the importance of diet makes these things almost not debatable. 

I learned this stuff from Dirk!

[mavsluvr]

@"mavsluvr", I don't think I represent all Mavs fans, or even all Mavs fans who want Luka to be in shape. And I may be in danger of repeating stuff, but I think this answer addresses your speculation about what Mavs fans are after, so... 

I don't want Luka to be in shape because of "principle", or "outrage", or the look of his body. I want him to learn to eat right and take care of himself because I want Luka to be an all time great, not a John Wall or a James Harden. 

I feel for the guy and know that playing the amount of basketball he's played, and load he's had to carry over the last two years is insane. I would not have been suprised if an in shape Luka had a bit of an off year with some injuries to overcome just because of that. So I'm taking all of that in to account.

To carry a good bit of extra weight with his level of calorie usage, in my mind, points to bad diet and/or alchohol. For Luka to be an all time great I think he'll have to learn how to control his eating and minimize alcohol usage. It seems like the progress in health science and the direction of professional sports regarding the importance of diet makes these things almost not debatable. 

I learned this stuff from Dirk!

Hey, fif, welcome to the discussion. Do you feel like I have wandered off the reservation? If so, let me understand it. 

I don't know why anyone would think that I believe that Luka should drink a lot of alcohol and eat poorly. Or that I want him to have a short career. Really? I agree that your being right about the importance of diet is almost non-debatable. 

Certainly, Luka should be held to the highest of professional standards, including maintaining good nutrition, both for the good of the team and of himself. That is actually a standard a lot of people try to hold themselves and their teams to in their own realms of endeavor, even if they aren't professional athletes. 

But I can tell you that even the best of people, who have the highest standards for themselves, are human beings and don't in fact meet that level of perfection on any kind of sustained basis, no matter how hard they try. Ever. Even the great Dirk has plenty of pictures looking sloshed. 

Life also exists outside of the job world, and if you want to deal in reality, sometimes things happen, and the most productive response is to think about that and give the person a little break. 
Things aren't always black and white. If a player's father dies, is the right thing to go to the funeral, or to stay home and get his reps in, assuming he can't do both? Or, in less extreme terms, maybe a guy's little girl has made him a cupcake on his birthday and brings it to him with pride in what she has done and love for him in her eyes, and it's the better decision as a human to eat it and even ask for another than to toss it in the trash and give her a lecture on nutrition. Being a good person (which I assume Luka wants) is more complicated than following a workout regimen with no exceptions, although a reasonably high level of discipline is part of it. I think you have to take the whole person into account if you want to be successful at managing people, but I guess that could be the subject of debate. 

I don't know for sure why Luka is in less than perfect condition. All of our guesses are only speculations, at the end of the day.  If it is because he just doesn't care and is too much of a jerk to change his ways, then that is reprehensible and I am speechless. But I don't know why we should assume that to be the case. My estimation would be that with everything else that is going on, his physical conditioning has gotten away from him a little. He wouldn't be the first person, or the first athlete, in the world that has happened to. 

It seems like the best approach is to work with Luka to get back on track, emphasizing positive reinforcement. He should eat properly and refrain from alcohol when he has basketball responsibilities. I agree that if he is insisting on spending his nights and days drunk and eating junk food, then that's a way different level of problem than I am suggesting. Do we have reason to believe that is happening, beyond our own imaginations? 

My propositions:  Luka should try his best to get back in shape and stay that way. The Mavs should do what they reasonably can to help him in that regard. If other problems exist with the Mavericks, they should address them, and not point the finger at Luka and act like his losing some weight is going to solve those other issues. 

Do you disagree with any or all of those three conclusions? Tbh, I'm not sure what we are all arguing about, at this point.

[hakeemfaan]

What do we disagree on, hakeem? 

Seems like we both think Luka should do his best and the cast needs to be better.

The thing is when Luka’s conditioning is brought up, for some reason you have engaged in hyperbole to tear down the other person’s viewpoints or brought up the fact that his teammates are nothing great anyway and so it is not that big a deal as ultimately nothing would change. 

My take is why mix these two things up?  There is no need to qualify lack of conditioning which is a personal responsibility with how good or bad his teammates are.

[mavsluvr]

The thing is when Luka’s conditioning is brought up, for some reason you have engaged in hyperbole to tear down the other person’s viewpoints or brought up the fact that his teammates are nothing great anyway and so it is not that big a deal as ultimately nothing would change. 

My take is why mix these two things up?  There is no need to qualify lack of conditioning which is a personal responsibility with how good or bad his teammates are.

hakeem, I have always admired you and enjoyed your posts, and have never meant to try to tear you down. I am genuinely sorry that you think I would even want to do that, if you do. 

My position is that Luka should attend to his conditioning. Another of my positions, which I think is consistent with the first, is that I am not sure Luka attending to his conditioning is going to change much of anything with respect to the Mavs' disappointment of a season. Maybe it will. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Of course, he should do it, anyway -- it's the right thing to do for a multitude of reasons. 

I believe that there is another widely held point of view that Luka's teammates are performing worse than expected, at least partly because of Luka's conditioning. That is the reason for addressing the subjects together. It is my hypothesis that Luka's teammates may not be stepping up as well as we would like, primarily because they have reached their ceilings, and not primarily because Luka is overweight. But I could be wrong, and only time will tell.  

At any rate, I think I am getting my points across much more poorly than I intended, if you think I was trying to belittle you. I feel like maybe I should just give this topic a rest for a while. There was surely no offense intended, and I hope to engage in further discussions with you in the future. Carry on!

[fifteenth]

@"mavsluvr", I don't disagree with your conclusions. 

The purpose of my post was just to give you some alternatives. You speculated on why people care about Luka being in shape. I didn't see my reasons on your list so I thought submit them for review. 

Also, I know all too well about being human. Luka is probably closer to living out all his hopes and dreams than I am (especially when it comes to athletic exploits!) I can absolutely give Luka a break and have patience for he and the Mavs.

[mavsluvr]

@"mavsluvr", I don't disagree with your conclusions. 

The purpose of my post was just to give you some alternatives. You speculated on why people care about Luka being in shape. I didn't see my reasons on your list so I thought submit them for review. 

Also, I know all too well about being human. Luka is probably closer to living out all his hopes and dreams than I am (especially when it comes to athletic exploits!) I can absolutely give Luka a break and have patience for he and the Mavs.

Fif, your reasons, as always, are superlative, impeccable, and delivered with astonishing clarity and rare style.

[fifteenth]

Fif, your reasons, as always, are superlative, impeccable, and delivered with astonishing clarity and rare style.

Ha! You've confused me with that KillerLeft

[BackToSquareOne]

Ha! You've confused me with that KillerLeft

I think it was a sarcastic dig at "he and the team".

[BackToSquareOne]

hakeem, I have always admired you and enjoyed your posts, and have never meant to try to tear you down. I am genuinely sorry that you think I would even want to do that, if you do. 

My position is that Luka should attend to his conditioning. Another of my positions, which I think is consistent with the first, is that I am not sure Luka attending to his conditioning is going to change much of anything with respect to the Mavs' disappointment of a season. Maybe it will. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Of course, he should do it, anyway -- it's the right thing to do for a multitude of reasons. 

I believe that there is another widely held point of view that Luka's teammates are performing worse than expected, at least partly because of Luka's conditioning. That is the reason for addressing the subjects together. It is my hypothesis that Luka's teammates may not be stepping up as well as we would like, primarily because they have reached their ceilings, and not primarily because Luka is overweight. But I could be wrong, and only time will tell.  

At any rate, I think I am getting my points across much more poorly than I intended, if you think I was trying to belittle you. I feel like maybe I should just give this topic a rest for a while. There was surely no offense intended, and I hope to engage in further discussions with you in the future. Carry on!

I think your takes over the last couple of days have been a little too negative. One of the biggest problems the Mavs have had this year, perhaps, overall, the biggest is that they've played very few games with both Luka and KP not injured. Most of the games they have had both on the court one or the other (or both) have been banged up to an appreciable extent. That, I think, makes it hard to judge how far off the Mavs really are/what the extent of the necessary changes is. 

Now, arguing for the devil, most of Luka's injury problem stem from this left knee/ankle thing that happened when he twisted his leg at the end of a game chasing a ball going out of bounds. Obviously, players can be in great shape and still pick up injuries. However, it is to some extent reasonable to imagine that this particular injury might not have happened if Luka had been in better overall shape, less tired at the end of the game, with better balance and so on.

[mavsluvr]

I think it was a sarcastic dig at "he and the team".

No sarcasm whatsoever. 

KL and F unfailingly deliver their comments with AC and RS.

[hakeemfaan]

hakeem, I have always admired you and enjoyed your posts, and have never meant to try to tear you down. I am genuinely sorry that you think I would even want to do that, if you do. 

My position is that Luka should attend to his conditioning. Another of my positions, which I think is consistent with the first, is that I am not sure Luka attending to his conditioning is going to change much of anything with respect to the Mavs' disappointment of a season. Maybe it will. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Of course, he should do it, anyway -- it's the right thing to do for a multitude of reasons. 

I believe that there is another widely held point of view that Luka's teammates are performing worse than expected, at least partly because of Luka's conditioning. That is the reason for addressing the subjects together. It is my hypothesis that Luka's teammates may not be stepping up as well as we would like, primarily because they have reached their ceilings, and not primarily because Luka is overweight. But I could be wrong, and only time will tell.  

At any rate, I think I am getting my points across much more poorly than I intended, if you think I was trying to belittle you. I feel like maybe I should just give this topic a rest for a while. There was surely no offense intended, and I hope to engage in further discussions with you in the future. Carry on!

As I wrote before, Luka’s conditioning issue has taken a life of its own and got more attention than some other things regarding his game 

Now the thing is we don’t know how much conditioning is a factor on his lack of effort on defense but I have brought up conditioning only because it is a minimum expectation from professional athletes that I have. I will continue to stand by that. If he played a more rigorous schedule in the off season then he should be in shape. 

However I have bigger issues with his game that I have whined about for the last few years. Mainly he wants to play on the ball. If he passes it and two passes go by without him getting it back, you can see him demanding it. Stop over dribbling and taking shots that leave teammates frozen, improving his FT %,  getting back on defense consistently than whining to the refs, and at least making a honest attempt on defense are all things that are much bigger issues I have with his game. 

Now you wrote previously that if he is that bad let us just trade him. He is a 6’8” guy who has superior handles, superior vision and passing skills, and can genuinely play inside or outside. He is a legit franchise changer. I would be thrilled if he plays his whole career here. My point is he can be a Jokic or a Westbrook. It is his choice. Jokic, due to Denver injuries, is currently playing with a surrounding cast that might be worse than Luka’s. He scores too and the ball passes through him a lot, but you watch those games and never feel like he is dominating the ball. He reads defenses and almost every time makes the right play, be it giving the ball up and just being a decoy or scoring if he sees defenses slacking off him due to his passing. I rarely see him hoisting a bad shot. Same with LeBron over the years. Who dominates the ball more than him?  Forget Kyrie or Wade. Even when he had an average cast in his early Cleveland years, you never felt the ball was sticking in his hands. Even though he had some great scoring runs and games too.  So even the excuse that no one else on this team can handle the ball and hence Luka has to hog the ball seems hollow.  

That is where I want Luka to be offensively. Like a Jokic or a Bron. I don’t expect a 22 year old Luka to be what a 27 year old Luka might be. However on some of these flaws I want to see improvement. This is year 4 and many of the things I have mentioned seem to be the same.  At least he can start with taking fewer one possession long shots and getting back on defense.