MAVS 107, BULLS 117

[mvossman]

This is the tragedy of our offseason. Bottom dwelling Bulls without cap space pulled an offseason where they brought in free agents DeRozan, Ball and Caruso for Young, Sato and Temple. Huge influx of talent. Mavs with near max cap space signed Bullock.

I was disappointed in this offseason as well, but this is a bit of a stretch.  The Mavs effectively signed THJ/Bullock/WCS with their near max cap space (operating over the cap) and still have a 10 mil trade exception (that they will probably burn).  

DeRozan, Ball and Caruso are like 54 mil a year.  We would have had to open up a lot of cap space to make that happen, and Ball was always going to the Bulls (why they are getting busted for tampering).

Maybe if the Spurs were willing to take on KP in an S&T for DeRozan we could have made a big splash like the Bulls did (Something like dumping KP/WCS and getting DeRozan/Holmes/THJ/Bullock), but I'm not sure the Spurs would have been interested in taking on that contract.

[dirkfansince1998]

2 signings have made a huge difference. Lonzo ( who many of us here were begging the Mavs to chase as a perfect running mate for Luka) and Caruso. 

I have to admit that i was out on DeRozan (who is probably playing the best basketball of his career right now) but those two would have made me a happy Mavs fan in the offseason. Smart decision makers with ballhandling ability. Good shooting. Elite perimeter defense. A guard is probably not an option for DPOY in the modern NBA but Lonzo has been as good as it gets for a player of his size. Rule changes are obviously making it easier for perimeter defenders but for me he is the one that stands out.
Followed closely by Caruso. He really reminds me of Kirk Hinrich. A player that I really wanted to see on the Mavs roster in the late 00s, early 10s.

[mavsluvr]

I don´t care how good his advanced stats are. Powell is a huge liability for this team and has been for almost a decade now. He kills the spacing of the whole starting unit and he can´t defend. Every team will gladly give up the 6-8 PPG he scores on dunks, when it makes it so much easier to defend Luka, KP, THJ and DFS. There are dozens of guys that can do his job on minimum or rookie deals.

Actually, I don't think that there are. 

I don't think Powell is a bad player. He's just a limited one, and that is reflected in his minutes. Acknowledging his limitations, he also does some important things well. He is a very smart player, and you don't often see him making groan-inducing mistakes, which some of the other players really do. He has some elite skills, primarily screening, rolling, and being on the receiving end of alley-oops. Luka is one of the best PNR ball handlers around, and Powell is at least arguably his best PNR partner on the roster. I would say that he actually is a positive for spacing, unless the other guys are out there trying to position themselves closer to the basket in the middle of their PNRs. 

I'm not saying he's some kind of world-beater, or even deserves more time on the floor. If the Mavs wanted to move on from him, I wouldn't be crushed. But I think he comes in for way more scapegoating than is warranted. There is some reason that Kidd, Luka, KP, and Tim want him to play alongside them, and I don't think we advance the ball any by pretending that he is nothing but negative. If they put him in indefinite time-out from tomorrow on, I don't think that the team would be improved.

He's limited, but eliminating him isn't going to turn this offense into a thing of beauty, imho. I could be wrong, of course.

[Mapka]

Actually, I don't think that there are. 

I don't think Powell is a bad player. He's just a limited one, and that is reflected in his minutes. Acknowledging his limitations, he also does some important things well. He is a very smart player, and you don't often see him making groan-inducing mistakes, which some of the other players really do. He has some elite skills, primarily screening, rolling, and being on the receiving end of alley-oops. Luka is one of the best PNR ball handlers around, and Powell is at least arguably his best PNR partner on the roster. I would say that he actually is a positive for spacing, unless the other guys are out there trying to position themselves closer to the basket in the middle of their PNRs. 

I'm not saying he's some kind of world-beater, or even deserves more time on the floor. If the Mavs wanted to move on from him, I wouldn't be crushed. But I think he comes in for way more scapegoating than is warranted. There is some reason that Kidd, Luka, KP, and Tim want to play alongside him, and I don't think we advance the ball any by pretending that he is nothing but negative. If they put him in indefinite time-out from tomorrow on, I don't think that the team would be improved.

He's limited, but eliminating him isn't going to turn this offense into a thing of beauty, imho. I could be wrong, of course.

Taking him off the floor and playing WCS started the Bulls run, we never got back.

[Mak]

I agree with most of this. 

What is most alarming with KP is the fact that he cannot lift us when Luka is having one of these games. 

• Rebounding was close between both teams
  
• Chicago hit a few more threes
  
• Turnovers were almost the same 
  

Now check out the Big 4 numbers 

KP, Luka, THJ, Brunson = 75 Points 

Derozan, Lavine, Vuc, Ball = 79 Points 

The difference in this game was Caruso. DFS and Bullock both had bad games and could not offset Caruso's 16.

Comparing big 4s is an interesting way to look at it. And it does make it seem like the roleplayers were the difference. 

Tho I feel like our Big 2 can’t be compared and lumped into the same tier as those other 6 guys if this team is going to have title aspirations.

[omahen]

I was disappointed in this offseason as well, but this is a bit of a stretch.  The Mavs effectively signed THJ/Bullock/WCS with their near max cap space (operating over the cap) and still have a 10 mil trade exception (that they will probably burn).

I agree if they use the TE, this gets better. But I also think Mavs will not use it. Mavs could have almost additional 15 million of salary on their books and still stay under tax line. I think Mavs should come in the season over the cap with some 115 mil of salaries, add MLE and BaE and look for SnT opportunity. That was the crucial mistake. 

DeRozan, Ball and Caruso are like 54 mil a year.  We would have had to open up a lot of cap space to make that happen, and Ball was always going to the Bulls (why they are getting busted for tampering).

30 million of cap space, Powell, Kleber and Burke or Green make up for the remaining money. Mavs could easily replicate what Chicago did. They were not sending out better players in their SnT deals. Or alternatively, Mavs could dump Powell somewhere and go after the likes of Graham, Holmes and THJ. The mechanics to pull this off are pretty easy imho and certainly possible, as shown by Chicago. If you convince guys to want to come.

[dynamicalVoid]

Its funny that Carlisle was supposedly so anti-rookies because he didnt like sloppy mistakes leading to turnovers...

Powell turns the ball over more than any player I have ever watched.  

Pass him the ball in the paint and there is a very high likely hood he fumbles into an opposing players hands or fumbles it out of bounds.

Same thing with rebounds.  How many times a game can you watch a player fumble the ball to the opposing team.

Most NBA players are "you touch it, you got it"...but not with Powell by any means.

His hands are trash and lead to lost possessions that other teams dont give up.

And for that reason...Im out.

[KillerLeft]

If you convince guys to want to come.

What's clear to me, even in the midst of all of this subjective opinion, is that Mark Cuban believed that THIS was the issue. And, he might not be wrong about that. After all, they did totally strike out again on Lowry. 

To me, that's the clear motivation that helps make sense of both the Harrison and Kidd hires. Whether it will improve things or not...we'll see.

[dirkfansince1998]

What's clear to me, even in the midst of all of this subjective opinion, is that Mark Cuban believed that THIS was the issue. And, he might not be wrong about that. After all, they did totally strike out again on Lowry. 

To me, that's the clear motivation that helps make sense of both the Harrison and Kidd hires. Whether it will improve things or not...we'll see.

I always wonder how this works. It seems like every single NBA insider, GM, player, coach knew that Lowry joining his buddy in Miami was never in doubt. What´s with the Mavs. Is it because euro stars couldn´t establish the necessary connections and friendships in college? Is it about the offseason bubbles in NY, LA or Miami where Mavs players and officials aren´t involved? I would be more hopeful if the Mavs could at least attract local guys but outside of Randle or Smart rumors that has never been the case. Even when we are talking about players that spent the offseason in Dallas (Aldridge).

[fifteenth]

I would be more hopeful if the Mavs could at least attract local guys but outside of Randle

Wasn't there a report of Randle wanting to come here, and then we just didn't want him? Reaching back in the memory banks, so could be wrong.

[mvossman]

30 million of cap space, Powell, Kleber and Burke or Green make up for the remaining money. Mavs could easily replicate what Chicago did. They were not sending out better players in their SnT deals. Or alternatively, Mavs could dump Powell somewhere and go after the likes of Graham, Holmes and THJ. The mechanics to pull this off are pretty easy imho and certainly possible, as shown by Chicago. If you convince guys to want to come.

I don't think it is as easy as you make it to dump 20 mil.  The Bulls used a 1st and 3 seconds to make those trades.  We could have landed Holmes instead of Bullock by letting WCS walk.  I would have greatly preferred that move.  He is the one guy I am fairly confident we could have gotten for a few mil more than he got paid (if we even needed that much).  As to the rest, it all comes back to your last sentence.  I think the biggest reason we hired Kidd and Nico was for recruiting purposes and I do consider that an epic fail considering the biggest name we brought in was Bullock.

[omahen]

I don't think it is as easy as you make it to dump 20 mil.  The Bulls used a 1st and 3 seconds to make those trades. 

I agree with everything else you said, I would comment just on this part. Bulls used a first and three seconds to get from zero to respectably good. I think that is a small price to pay.

[hakeemfaan]

I think Frank has a better chance of being our "Caruso".  I like the Caruso signing as well.  Would have preferred that to Bullock given that we did not sign anybody else who could pass the ball.

I have always been intrigued by Frank N and wanted the Mavs to take a chance on him if he were available.  However he is a reclamation project and the jury is still out on his offense. Caruso is a proven commodity who instantly adds a lot of depth to the team.

[Chicagojk]

Dang. How did I skip DeRozan?  Love the midrange game and he is one of the few in the league still adept at it.   The off-season was a disaster due to all the front office change and turmoil. Plus Cuban seems to have got Nico and Kidd in to hit a home run in FA. The real need instead of wasting another decade trying to hit a home run is a GM who can make smart judicious moves. Especially when you are already handed something that most teams don’t have…a transcendent talent. Can Nico do that?  Did Cuban even ask him what his philosophy is?  Unfortunately we will have to wait and see because there is nothing to go on there.

I am wrong about a lot, and could be wrong about this as well.  But this offseason, I thought the Mavs had to think bigger.   I like Hardaway and think he is a good player.  Although resigning him pretty much said the Mavs were working around the edges to improve the team.   I thought they first needed to prioritize about adding talent before worrying about improving on the edges.   

So my mantra all offseason was I would not be giving a good offseason grade if they tried to improve around the edges.   I would have targeted Derozan (In fact, I would have tried to sell both Derozan and Lowry, although looking back that probably wasn't in the cards or $ feasible).   I would have then went after a top 3 and D wing (Batum, Danny Green, etc).  And then use the rest of the money for a 4/5 big man who provides some toughness and ideally could score inside if needed.  

Would that have been a better offseason?  I think so.  Others may disagree.

[ItsGoTime]

I wanted Batum and Holmes in a bad way this offseason.

[Chicagojk]

We have a little more intel (via Brian Dameris) on some of these big man lineups, including continuing to start Powell. The buzz is that their number one objective for the bigs at this point is not to overtax KP. They hope they don't have to give up games on that account, but they are willing to do so in support of that goal if they have to. They need a big man who can sprint out to the perimeter to defend, and they don't want to impose too much of that on KP for load-management purposes. Out of the remaining big men, with Maxi being out, they deem Powell the least of the evils. Hmm.

My hope...and it is only a hope...and probably wrong, was the reason the Mavs are starting Powell are for two reasons.   One, if the Mavs want to start a center that is not KP their options are very limited.   Powell is probably the tallest midget of the group.    He is also reliable who will play hard every second on the court and won't make many mental mistakes.  But the second reason was that they are using this lineup to evaluate KP as a 4.    Can he play the 4 with another center for 20-25 minutes a night?   You want to have that answer before you throw more money at another center.  That could be the reason why WCS was retained too.    If he can't play this way, the focus needs to be adding a PF type.   With limited resources it would be nice to just fill one spot....either starting PF or starting C will be a big need moving forward.  

I am probably just hoping for things to be but my hope is they are trying to stick with this lineup to gauge if KP can play with another big guy and if he can defend well enough in this type of lineup.

[hakeemfaan]

I always wonder how this works. It seems like every single NBA insider, GM, player, coach knew that Lowry joining his buddy in Miami was never in doubt. What´s with the Mavs. Is it because euro stars couldn´t establish the necessary connections and friendships in college? Is it about the offseason bubbles in NY, LA or Miami where Mavs players and officials aren´t involved? I would be more hopeful if the Mavs could at least attract local guys but outside of Randle or Smart rumors that has never been the case. Even when we are talking about players that spent the offseason in Dallas (Aldridge).

Not disagreeing but if you are not going to sway anyone due to reasons like that, then what is the difference between having Nico here vs Donnie?  There is nothing in Nico’s background other than having some sort of connection to a lot of players. Now if he cannot even use that to sway a couple of folks who otherwise might not have considered playing here, then all that is left is asset management and trades. At that point Cuban is flying blind because there is no track record to guess how Nico will do. 

I also wonder if players really want to play for Kidd. I am not getting into whether he is a good coach or not. He clearly has a very high basketball IQ and the hope is he has learned from some of his past mistakes. The issue is, good or bad, he doesn’t come across as a player’s coach which was the same criticism levied on RC and a reason given as to why we needed a change in this new NBA where players have all the power. I am not sure if Kidd is any different in that regard. He seems like a very strong willed person himself. 


Hoping for the best.

[Borkhan]

I would also like to point out that, that a lot of teams built dynasties out of draft. Mavs in general prefer trades and free agents. The difference is, that drafted players need more time to really contribute, but in general stay longer than some journeymen and are cheaper than stars and you dont have to entice or even beg them.

Somehow I have a feeling that Mavs would today trade even their picks for 2050 season, if it would be possible, so much they disdain this choice (yeah, Luka and Dirk are basically exceptions to this unwritten Mavs rule - "Thou shall trade any picks as soon as you get them").

Mavs at this moment, with Luka and KP really does not have time/years to build from draft picks, but still, does not have really to trade or hock all of them as soon as they  can.

Still hoping...

[haveitall]

I was saying Derozan was the best free agent in this class this summer.  Everyone said no defense, no 3.  Him and Ball were the only ones with all star potential.

[mvossman]

I am wrong about a lot, and could be wrong about this as well.  But this offseason, I thought the Mavs had to think bigger.   I like Hardaway and think he is a good player.  Although resigning him pretty much said the Mavs were working around the edges to improve the team.   I thought they first needed to prioritize about adding talent before worrying about improving on the edges.   

So my mantra all offseason was I would not be giving a good offseason grade if they tried to improve around the edges.   I would have targeted Derozan (In fact, I would have tried to sell both Derozan and Lowry, although looking back that probably wasn't in the cards or $ feasible).   I would have then went after a top 3 and D wing (Batum, Danny Green, etc).  And then use the rest of the money for a 4/5 big man who provides some toughness and ideally could score inside if needed.  

Would that have been a better offseason?  I think so.  Others may disagree.

I was on the same page that they needed to do something bigger as this was potentially the last offseason they would have room to operate under the cap for a while.  I was not a fan of DeRozan (especially at 26 mil/year) as I was concerned about his fit with Luka, but given how little we did this offseason I probably would have preferred that to what we did (essentially nothing).

Just to be clear though, if we signed DeRozan that would have meant no THJ or Bullock unless we make moves to dump salary as we would only have roughly 6 mil leftover.  The exception would be if we could have convinced the Spurs to take on KP in a S&T.  We do that and we might have managed to squeeze in Holmes, THJ and Bullock under the cap.  That would be a trade of KP/WCS for Holmes/DeRozan.  Easy call at this point.

I heard we went hard after Batum but he wanted to stay a Clipper, and when have we not gone after Danny Green?  My guess was Bullock was the best 3&D we could get for the MLE.  Along the lines of your thinking, if we could not land any big fish at all, I would preferred to go for the 3 MLE guys that we could spend a few extra mil on.  If Bullock was our best 3&D option, then I probably would have preferred a Theis/Bullock/Caruso offseason to THJ/Bullock/WCS.

If nothing else, if we were intending to do this two big lineup to "protect KP" then I have no idea why we did not at least get Holmes.  He would have been way more impactful than Bullock, and all that would have cost was letting WCS walk.