Apologize to Coach Rick

[KillerLeft]

Come on now Kamm...You know it's true.

[fifteenth]

And I totally agree with you that KP is the other stinking pile in the corner of the room. I have a sinking suspicion that one of the reasons Kidd was brought in was to appease KP. Cuban thinks he has a pair of superstars when what he really has is a Superstar and a part time starter.

He can't reach his actual potential of being that "unicorn" for two reasons I think.
1. He can't stay healthy. He ends up each time trying to get back to where he was when he got hurt. Once he is close to back he is hurt again.
2. Mentally he just doesn't have the makeup. He's a constant victim. He's always looking for someone else as to why something isn't working. Rick put him in the best position he could. He hated it because he wasn't a focal point of the offense. Put him where he wants to be and he is inconsistent at best until he gets hurt again. He is inconsistent because he dominates weaker matchups and is getting owned by above average matchups.

No coach will be able to fix that issue.

---

Come on now Kamm. Don't make us pull out boring stats to prove this. You know it's true. Rick will have that Indiana team in the playoffs.

Dang. This is strong to quite strong.

[MAVS-SLO]

It's difficult to judge coaches after a few games.

RC did a lot of good things for the franchise, but not so long ago we were also talking if he is a right coach for Luka? Is he the coach who can live for every game like Luka? Wouldn't be better to have a younger a coach who will grow up with the team?

Kidd on the paper that is, but time will showe if he is a right choice. 

He didn't succed with the Bucks, but similar stories were also around Nate McMillan with Pacers and now with the Hawks.

And bigger problems then the coaching staff was FO behind RC.

[omahen]

Mavs didn't fire RC, he left. 

Coaching was not a problem imho, lack of talent was. Talent level didn't really improve, imho. The jury is out if Kidd can get same level of performance from the team as RC did.

[MAVS-SLO]

Mavs didn't fire RC, he left. 

Coaching was not a problem imho, lack of talent was. Talent level didn't really improve, imho. The jury is out if Kidd can get same level of performance from the team as RC did.

Agree with the lack of the talent and agree with the 1 par of the coaching. Other part is also how RC was using some of the players (read KP).

RC left after former FO left.

[Moviemavguy]

Mavs didn't fire RC, he left. 

Coaching was not a problem imho, lack of talent was. Talent level didn't really improve, imho. The jury is out if Kidd can get same level of performance from the team as RC did.

Bingo, but if a "lesser" coach forces the FO to make roster moves, then it was all worth it.  

And again, our coach 4-2, former coach 1-6.  That can change quickly, but that is the fact today.

[hakeemfaan]

Mavs didn’t fire RC but everything around him was crumbling. Plus by all accounts Luka was not listening to him. RC could see the writing on the wall and decided it was better to leave on his own terms than wait for the inevitable axe. 

Audio: IMO Cuban didn’t get Kidd for KP. I think it is for Luka.  If your most valuable commodity is going to butt heads with a championship coach, Cuban must have felt the next best option was to get a championship PG. A guy who was a great player and called the plays during our title run.  Even if Luka wants to,  Kidd would be one of the few coaches tha he couldn’t question at least for some time without getting some backlash himself.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, if not Kidd, who else? Who is the guy that was available that would do better? RC left us, our chosen GM wanted Kidd as a package deal. If not Kidd and Nico, who else? Who was the duo that was going to come in here and do more than the duo we have?

[SleepingHero]

If not Kidd and Nico, who else? Who was the duo that was going to come in here and do more than the duo we have?

Are we just choosing whoever we want? 

If so then Masai and Terry Stotts.

[omahen]

Also, if not Kidd, who else? Who is the guy that was available that would do better? RC left us, our chosen GM wanted Kidd as a package deal. If not Kidd and Nico, who else? Who was the duo that was going to come in here and do more than the duo we have?

I don't think the thread is about "RC great Kidd bad". It is about scapegoating RC as the cause for bad results that is being done by Mavs (players, Mavs media, fans), through more or less direct hints and statements. "KP was bad because of RC, offense was too much Luka centric, mood was bad because of RC being a pain in the ass..." Reality strikes - KP still can't create for himself, rest of the crew are still same limited role players. Psychological enthusiasm about coaching change will be short term. In the end, reality will show that this team just lacks the talent. Something we (should) know for 3 years. 

In this light I find it extremely unfair to point a finger at RC, who should deserve nothing but respect from the organization that chose to have him as head coach for more than a decade.

[ItsGoTime]

Are we just choosing whoever we want? 

If so then Masai and Terry Stotts.

Masai was who I wanted, but he wanted Tor, so how was he available? Stotts is the lesser version of RC (edit) and even more of the offense first coach. Not interested.

[ItsGoTime]

I don't think the thread is about "RC great Kidd bad". It is about scapegoating RC as the cause for bad results that is being done by Mavs (players, Mavs media, fans), through more or less direct hints and statements. "KP was bad because of RC, offense was too much Luka centric, mood was bad because of RC being a pain in the ass..." Reality strikes - KP still can't create for himself, rest of the crew are still same limited role players. Psychological enthusiasm about coaching change will be short term. In the end, reality will show that this team just lacks the talent. Something we (should) know for 3 years. 

In this light I find it extremely unfair to point a finger at RC, who should deserve nothing but respect from the organization that chose to have him as head coach for more than a decade.

I don’t see scapegoating around here. I see “it was time for him to move on”, but don’t really see how that is scapegoating. I don’t see it in the quotes from the organization or team. They are saying they are happy, and then the reporters maybe are expounding on that, but I have yet to read much derogatory towards RC by them. 


You yourself brought things back to reality when you said he left us. Well, he left us, there’s always going to be a compare and contrast when forced to look elsewhere. Is it not acceptable to do that?

[Kammrath]

I don’t see scapegoating around here. I see “it was time for him to move on”, but don’t really see how that is scapegoating.

Yeah, honestly on this forum scapegoating of RC is pretty non-existent. There are a few RC-haters who sweep through, but they aren't regulars. I actually see more hatred of Kidd on here than hatred of RC.

[audiosway]

I don't think the thread is about "RC great Kidd bad". It is about scapegoating RC as the cause for bad results that is being done by Mavs (players, Mavs media, fans), through more or less direct hints and statements. "KP was bad because of RC, offense was too much Luka centric, mood was bad because of RC being a pain in the ass..." Reality strikes - KP still can't create for himself, rest of the crew are still same limited role players. Psychological enthusiasm about coaching change will be short term. In the end, reality will show that this team just lacks the talent. Something we (should) know for 3 years. 

In this light I find it extremely unfair to point a finger at RC, who should deserve nothing but respect from the organization that chose to have him as head coach for more than a decade.

This! The team just lacks talent. That's evident. It's no different than a couple of years ago. The starting lineup is essentially only 2-3 actual starters depending on how you look at it. Luka definitely. KP is a starter when healthy. His main problem is as I stated above. He can't really create his own shot, his drives to the basket only work against teams that are weak inside, and he's always looking for someone to blame for his lack of improvement.

DFS is a solid young player. Except that he's not exactly a young player anymore. He is 28 and will be 29 in May. This is his prime. He's an above average 3&D guy. Dwight Powell is a good bench PnR guy. Oh and DP is 30 now also. Brunson is a very good 6th man. First guy off the bench, etc. He's going to likely command starter money but I think he is a borderline starter on a championship team. Very much like a Barea. Maxi is a good backup big. Again, 3&D from a big. THJ is a streaky shooter. Not a starter on a championship team. A good guy to bring off the bench.

Essentially what you have with this Mavs team is a team of a superstar in Luka, KP (an incredibly overpaid 3rd-5th option as a starter when healthy), some prime aged above average 3&D role players, and a couple of microwave ovens with an occasional short (Brunson, THJ). This team is basically Luka and the Dallas Knicks.

This all adds up to why this team hasn't been out of the first round in a while.

@"hakeemfan" I fully understand that Kidd will help give accountability to Luka. But, Kidd and Nico were mainly brought in because Cuban wants to be a FA draw. I was just mentioning that Cuban likely thought it may help sooth KP and his ego as a plus.

Make no mistake though, Cuban wants to go big game hunting. I just don't know that Dallas will be a destination. International guys don't normally tend to team up like the American players do longing for their AAU days. (Example: Giannis) And American players don't seem to really want to play with International guys either.

I have a feeling we'll continue to see them strike out in FA and pick up guys like Frank on the cheap and develop him into what was expected of him at the draft.

[Chicagojk]

I wouldn't put it past Rick turning things around in Indy, but that was a team I wasn't as high on as others.  Solid players but I am not sure how many of them will be with the team in 3 years.   They have a feeling of a best case a team that gets to the second round as their high point and a team that gets stuck in no mans land as a solid early playoff exit team.

[Mavs2021]

It´s good that Carlisle is gone, because the talent level on this team for the last decade has been trash, and the combination of Carlisle + Dirk or Luka always guaranteed the Mavs a 1st round exit ceiling, light years away from actually contending. In reality the work done by the front office led by Cuban and Nelson deserved 10 years of actually missing the play-offs. They were easily a bottom five front office for a decade.

It´s not some bad trade, bad draft or a bad free agency decision either. It´s the whole structure and direction of  the franchise given out by the owner. It just stinks.

Carlisle being gone finally exposes these flaws. Carlisle wasn´t flawless himself, far from it, but he was very good.

---

I wouldn't put it past Rick turning things around in Indy, but that was a team I wasn't as high on as others.  Solid players but I am not sure how many of them will be with the team in 3 years.   They have a feeling of a best case a team that gets to the second round as their high point and a team that gets stuck in no mans land as a solid early playoff exit team.

Of course if they are healthy they are a good team. LeVert, Sabonis, Warren, Turner, Brogdon. Good talent.

[audiosway]

It´s good that Carlisle is gone, because the talent level on this team for the last decade has been trash, and the combination of Carlisle + Dirk or Luka always guaranteed the Mavs a 1st round exit ceiling, light years away from actually contending. In reality the work done by the front office led by Cuban and Nelson deserved 10 years of actually missing the play-offs. They were easily a bottom five front office for a decade.

It´s not some bad trade, bad draft or a bad free agency decision either. It´s the whole structure and direction of  the franchise given out by the owner. It just stinks.

Carlisle being gone finally exposes these flaws. Carlisle wasn´t flawless himself, far from it, but he was very good.

---

Of course if they are healthy they are a good team. LeVert, Sabonis, Warren, Turner, Brogdon. Good talent.

I'm not glad he's gone. But, it definitely shows what many of us suspected for a long time. The talent level was just not that good. Rick was always able to turn it into a playoff team but that didn't mean it was good by any means. Cuban's direction of this team has been terrible.

[Mavs2021]

I'm not glad he's gone. But, it definitely shows what many of us suspected for a long time. The talent level was just not that good. Rick was always able to turn it into a playoff team but that didn't mean it was good by any means. Cuban's direction of this team has been terrible.

Well I blame Carlisle for not being more assertive, demanding and flat out confrontational. He had the option to tank for better talent, but he was a good soldier, trying to win as many useless games as possible, so that in the end, we could draft DSJ instead of Tatum, Ball, Fox, Markkanen or Isaac.

I suspect that it had a lot to do with his family situation. He didn´t want to uproot them and allow his daughter to finish highschool in Dallas. Other coaches at that elite level would have been a lot more confrontational toward their front office/owner over the last decade imho.

[Mak]

Kidd has strong Avery Johnson vibes. I just hope Luka sticks with the Mavs through this era until a real coach holds the clipboard, like Dirk did. 


I like Carlisle. There’s no need to say sorry to him. He’s an adult. He’s one of the best basketball minds on the planet. But I don’t see much value discussing him too much. He chose to leave. Maybe because he saw the writing on the wall. Maybe because he just got tired of being here. Maybe for some other reason. Who knows. 


But he’s gone. And now we’ve got a Kid in charge. That’s what is truly sorry about all this.

[Kammrath]

And now we’ve got a Kid in charge.

Assuming you intentionally wrote "Kid"....do you realize that Kidd is the same age now as when RC took over for the Mavs in 2008?