HAWKS 113, MAVS 87

[chaparral]

Overllooked this part. Luka was usually the power wing on defense. We had a couple of 6-7 or something guys on the bench if opponent had a couple of strong guys. Of course talent level at Olympics is lower than in NBA, but so was the talent level of our team, if I compare them with Dallas.

Just looked this up.  PTS, REB, AST, BLK, STL and FG%.  They had some good FG%'s.

2021 Slovenia Olympic Games Leaders

Points

Luka Doncic23.8
Klemen Prepelic15.5
Mike Tobey13.7
Vlatko Cancar12.8
Zoran Dragic12.3

Rebounds

Mike Tobey10.5
Luka Doncic9.7
Vlatko Cancar4.3
Jaka Blazic3.8
Zoran Dragic3.5

Assists

Luka Doncic9.5
Klemen Prepelic2.7
Mike Tobey2.5
Luka Rupnik2.2
Zoran Dragic1.8

Blocks

Luka Doncic1.0
Zoran Dragic0.3
Jaka Blazic0.3
Mike Tobey0.2
Vlatko Cancar0.2

Steals

Luka Doncic1.2
Vlatko Cancar1.2
Jaka Blazic1.2
Zoran Dragic0.8
Klemen Prepelic0.7

FG%

Ziga Dimec.812
Jakob Cebasek.667
Mike Tobey.614
Gregor Hrovat.600
Zoran Dragic.592

2021 Slovenia Olympic Games Averages

[omahen]

Just looked this up.  PTS, REB, AST, BLK, STL and FG%.  They had some good FG%'s.

Prepelic, Cancar and Dragic are wings, not really able to create much. But they were pushing the ball and they were able to pass the ball and punish opponent when Luka created 4 on 3 situations for them.

[Branduil]

Man it's almost like there's a reason we had Luka run the offense the entire time the past few years and not just because RC irrationally hated KP

[audiosway]

Man it's almost like there's a reason we had Luka run the offense the entire time the past few years and not just because RC irrationally hated KP

Kinda funny how that works huh? It's almost like Rick squeezed everything he could out of this roster. I was always told they would breeze out of the first round if they just had another coach.

[hakeemfaan]

As for Porzingis, I really don't understand how short memory people have. KP was allowed to post up a lot last season and only after proving it time and time again that he is not good at it, Carlisle stuck him in the corner after first couple of Clippers games in that series. The game yesterday just confirmed that. Personally I have zero hope to ever see consistent efficient KP creating for himself. And that is not a slight against him, coach (and him) just has to accept what he is and put him in a position where he can succeed. Imho, there are only two options - either he is the PnR partner (which means Powell can't play with him and clug the paint) or he is spreading the floor.

Unless the plan is to inflate his numbers, even if inefficient, to move him. Unfortunately even this part failed.

We all agree that posting up KP is not the best option. However IMO there is a middle ground between posting up KP and just asking him to hang around the 3 pt line. I am not even blaming RC anymore because as news came out at the end, I am not sure if RC really had as much clout as we thought anyway. . 

To me it is not even about KP. He might be traded at some point. It is not even about a 5 out offense. I am fine with that. The issue was that too often last year the movement off the ball was lacking. 5 out does not mean all camp out there while one guy over dribbles. That was frustrating to watch. That needed to change. That’s why I am willing to give this new coaching staff a lot of leeway. Let us give them some time. Plus no matter what you glean watching from the outside, Kidd will need to go through some things to formulate his own conclusions too about how best to utilize each player.

[burekemde]

I don't understand why they are not doing pick and roll with Luka and KP and spacing all other three players in corners and perimeter (THJ, DFS, Maxi). The combo of Luka and KP has more talent than any combo on defense of two players that any opponent could try to match. And spreading out the other 3 players as shooters means that teams wont be able to scheme against this (the way Hawks were doing last game and clogging the paint).

Why don't we see this regularly? I want to see Luka and KP attack the paint together and I also want to see KP getting the ball in the post and pass it to Luka, and other way around.

You could also turn it this way: This would force the two in developing the chemistry and make them more "depend" on eachother. This is what the owner wants. But it may also be the best for the team, as that is the two best talents on this team.

[burekemde]

Also, I dont understand the love for DP, it's time for this to stop. He would not start on any other NBA team, today or in the past, in any era. He can't post up, he can't shoot, can't pass. With this in mind and being a big, you would expect then at least as a "compesation" that he would be an enforcer and terrific defender, blocker and rebounder - however he doesn't bring any of those skills either. To me the way to go is to let KP and Luka attack and surround them with 3 shooters. They will with time develop their way as combo how to attack the paint. Both can score under the basket and from outside, and from mid range. They need to develop their movements and pick and roll. I want to even see Luka screen for KP and reverse. I want to see both post up and pass to the other running inside/out and out/inside the paint. Both have the capability to pass to the perimeter whenever double team is set. This would be a nightmare for any another team to defend.

[hakeemfaan]

I don't understand why they are not doing pick and roll with Luka and KP and spacing all other three players in corners and perimeter (THJ, DFS, Maxi). The combo of Luka and KP has more talent than any combo on defense of two players that any opponent could try to match. And spreading out the other 3 players as shooters means that teams wont be able to scheme against this (the way Hawks were doing last game and clogging the paint).

Why don't we see this regularly? I want to see Luka and KP attack the paint together and I also want to see KP getting the ball in the post and pass it to Luka, and other way around.

You could also turn it this way: This would force the two in developing the chemistry and make them more "depend" on eachother. This is what the owner wants. But it may also be the best for the team, as that is the two best talents on this team.

I had said this a few times last year and the answer I got is that KP is not a great PnR player.  This might be true since Luka is an exceptional PnR player and so it would seem a natural thing to do.  My counter was how committed was the team to do that?  Maybe KP takes time. Maybe his injuries were why the coaching staff couldn’t commit to that. 

However I fully agree with you that PnR or whatever else they try, it is imperative that they find a way to let their two best offensive players play off one another.  Plus stick to it for some time than give up. It took Dirk a few years to improve his passing out of double teams.

[burekemde]

I had said this a few times last year and the answer I got is that KP is not a great PnR player.  This might be true since Luka is an exceptional PnR player and so it would seem a natural thing to do.  My counter was how committed was the team to do that?  Maybe KP takes time. Maybe his injuries were why the coaching staff couldn’t commit to that. 

However I fully agree with you that PnR or whatever else they try, it is imperative that they find a way to let their two best offensive players play off one another.  Plus stick to it for some time than give up. It took Dirk a few years to improve his passing out of double teams.

I agree and it doesnt even have to be based on screens. Isolate Luka and Kp and let them pass to one another based on movement and attack the paint as a combo. I have always thought that as more effective compared to screens if practiced well. I would mix all kinds of movement and screens. And also let Luka set screens for KP and KP could find Luka like this as well.

[ItsGoTime]

I will say, I actually remember a play with KP at center court 3pt spot and Luka with the ball motioning KP to come set a pick. KP never looked at Luka, just watched WCS run around and eventually pick Luka’s man which put 3 defenders in a tight space. I was really disappointed with KP on that play.

[KillerLeft]

We all agree that posting up KP is not the best option.

Look, post him up or don't. I wouldn't, but I understand the desire to try to get some of what you thought you were paying for when you gave him a max extension! 

All I'm saying is that if you're going to post him up, design something that creates space for him to beat his defender! Something where he has a place to go with the ball when there are multiple defenders within feet of him. 

It was only one game, so maybe it was just not a good performance on the players' part and therefore not indicative of some new (and terrible) offensive philosophy, but on Thursday the Mavs' offense looked like a pickup game approach, at least after that double screen action they started with stopped working.

[KillerLeft]

I had said this a few times last year and the answer I got is that KP is not a great PnR player.  This might be true since Luka is an exceptional PnR player and so it would seem a natural thing to do.  My counter was how committed was the team to do that?  Maybe KP takes time. Maybe his injuries were why the coaching staff couldn’t commit to that. 

Have we considered the idea that KP doesn't WANT to do that? Or even that he flat out WON'T? I don't know that this is the reason, but it's getting more and more plausible, at least to me. 

Also, can't really run two-man stuff with Luka and KP with Powell on the floor - too easy to commit an extra defender to support, even on the weak side. Even if Powell is as far away as possible, his man will not be, because the GOAL of the defense in that situation will be to shut down the action with Luka/KP (and their preferred outlet) and force Powell to brick a 3. That's what they want. 

When they announced Powell as a starter I was open to it, because I thought that meant we would see a return to the Luka/Powell pick and roll game  with KP spacing (HE can shoot). As @"DanSchwartzgan" tells us about once a week, this was the foundation of an all-time great offense. Now, I'm fine with ANY other plan Kidd has, too, but I'm with @"burekemde" on this one: if Powell is NOT going to be the first option in the pick and roll game (something we know he's elite doing) then WHY ON EARTH is he out there?

[hakeemfaan]

Have we considered the idea that KP doesn't WANT to do that? Or even that he flat out WON'T? I don't know that this is the reason, but it's getting more and more plausible, at least to me. 

Also, can't really run two-man stuff with Luka and KP with Powell on the floor - too easy to commit an extra defender to support, even on the weak side. Even if Powell is as far away as possible, his man will not be, because the GOAL of the defense in that situation will be to shut down the action with Luka/KP (and their preferred outlet) and force Powell to brick a 3. That's what they want. 

When they announced Powell as a starter I was open to it, because I thought that meant we would see a return to the Luka/Powell pick and roll game  with KP spacing (HE can shoot). As @"DanSchwartzgan" tells us about once a week, this was the foundation of an all-time great offense. Now, I'm fine with ANY other plan Kidd has, too, but I'm with @"burekemde" on this one: if Powell is NOT going to be the first option in the pick and roll game (something we know he's elite doing) then WHY ON EARTH is he out there?

If KP has some issues with it then as a coach you either get him to buy in or force him to or sit him out. That’s what a coaching staff is supposed to do. 

The Powell stuff for me is irrelevant. He is a fringe player. If he doesn’t fit what Kidd wants to do with KP and Luka, Powell will be spending time on the bench as the season goes along. 

Whether it was KP not listening or Luka not listening or the coaching staff not committing to find a scheme for Luka and KP to play off one another, to me the fact in year 3 we are still debating how best to play them together has been the biggest failure over the last two seasons for this organization.

[Mavs2021]

if Powell is NOT going to be the first option in the pick and roll game (something we know he's elite doing) then WHY ON EARTH is he out there?

My theory is that Dwight Powell is the mastermind behind it all. He somehow got a premature overpay contract extension. He started for years. The moment he gets benched in the play-offs by Carlisle, possibly based on a suggestion of Haha Bob, there is a mystery leak that Powell smartly pinned on Donnie, who hadn´t offered him a contract extension. As a result Bob and Donnie are fired and Carlisle had to re-sign. New coach, new front office and who is mysteriously back in the starting line-up: Dwight Powell. 

[KillerLeft]

Whether it was KP not listening or Luka not listening or the coaching staff not committing to find a scheme for Luka and KP to play off one another, to me the fact in year 3 we are still debating how best to play them together has been the biggest failure over the last two seasons for this organization.

Absolutely damn right. 

And THAT is part of why I've been so active in the movement to get KP's ass off of this team. It's not about assigning blame, it's about getting that failure in the rearview mirror and finally getting started on building a team that WILL work together.

[Mavs2021]

Absolutely damn right. 

And THAT is part of why I've been so active in the movement to get KP's ass off of this team. It's not about assigning blame, it's about getting that failure in the rearview mirror and finally getting started on building a team that WILL work together.

Even if Nico wanted to trade Porzingis I guarantee you Cuban will veto any deal, cause it will be nowhere near the value that Cuban has assigned to Porzingis. Or does anyone here expect Cuban to accept something like Thompson/Bagley or Ross/Bamba for Porzingis. He probably thinks Porzingis for Simmons straight up is fair value.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Also, can't really run two-man stuff with Luka and KP with Powell on the floor - too easy to commit an extra defender to support, even on the weak side. Even if Powell is as far away as possible, his man will not be, because the GOAL of the defense in that situation will be to shut down the action with Luka/KP (and their preferred outlet) and force Powell to brick a 3. That's what they want. 

When they announced Powell as a starter I was open to it, because I thought that meant we would see a return to the Luka/Powell pick and roll game  with KP spacing (HE can shoot). As @"DanSchwartzgan" tells us about once a week, this was the foundation of an all-time great offense. Now, I'm fine with ANY other plan Kidd has, too, but I'm with @"burekemde" on this one: if Powell is NOT going to be the first option in the pick and roll game (something we know he's elite doing) then WHY ON EARTH is he out there?

I get it.  Powell in the dunker spot along the baseline isn't generating beautiful basketball.  But, it may be a bit early to call this DOA.  A team with long playoff run aspirations has to find multiple ways to attack the D.  I'm all for trying to find different looks.  Why can't we have multiple PnR options among the bigs.  It may take some time/effort to get things where we want them to be.  But what if it ends up working?  What if we can have heliocentric Luka and some additional go-to things that also work.  No guarantees, but we certainly won't know unless we try.

Interesting that when Dallas pulled back on center play, it was Willie's minutes that suffered.  I wouldn't say Powell had a bad game.  He was +3 and KP was -3 for the game, but lets did a little deeper.  The starters were -11 in the first six minutes of the game.  Is it Powell's fault KP and Tim were 0-6 during that stretch?  He didn't interfere with any of those shots.  Does Powell get credit for the team going +8 to start the third when he and KP were in together?  Tim and KP were 5 of 7 during that stretch.  Was Powell worthless when he went +6 in his minutes without KP?  KP was +0 in his minutes without Powell.  Why is Powell always the scapegoat?  He went 3 for 3.  It was KP that went 7 for 20. 

I don't know what will and won't work with this group any more than the next guy.  But, I'm willing to give this 20 games or so against differing types of opponents before making any declarations.

---

My theory is that Dwight Powell is the mastermind behind it all. He somehow got a premature overpay contract extension. He started for years. The moment he gets benched in the play-offs by Carlisle, possibly based on a suggestion of Haha Bob, there is a mystery leak that Powell smartly pinned on Donnie, who hadn´t offered him a contract extension. As a result Bob and Donnie are fired and Carlisle had to re-sign. New coach, new front office and who is mysteriously back in the starting line-up: Dwight Powell. 
 

Now that's good stuff right there.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Watch the second and third clip and pay attention to where Powell and Maxi are in the second clip and Powell and KP are in the second clip.  Powell scores from the baseline on a Luka drive.  Then its KP on the baseline and his move to post up on the opposite side helps free Powell for an easy two.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100029&PlayerID=203939&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612742&flag=3&sct=plot§ion=game