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Of Freedom, Country and Vaccination
(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: my point which is that there is not this overwhelming consensus

I am keeping it short. There is. You still haven´t figured out what scientific consensus means. Doesn´t mean that all people have to agree. Detailed explanation is in an earlier post.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: I have read over ever link I have posted.  My point to you is that the notion of validating the studies and laps of all of these Doctors, Scientists and Researchers is not only beyond the time and scope of this discussion but it is in fact foolish that you even think you can do it with accuracy from the comfort of your easy chair or wherever you are passing judgements on the validity of all of these people many of which are far more qualified than you are. 

Absolutely. But for the most part the stuff that you are posting is complete BS. Doesn´t take a genius to take it apart. And how to you know that they are more qualified than me. Many of them are. Some of them aren´t. But then again. Don´t trust the internet.
So you are just posting it because it fits your narrative. Without even understanding what some of them are talking about. Without even knowing if all of them are the experts they claim to be. I don´t think I am the armchair researcher in this thread.

It is foolish to post things when you don´t even understand them. Foolish to post things without knowing whether they are true or false. And no in most cases it isn´t a we don´t know scenario. I have replied to many of those examples. You refuse to acknowledge that they exist.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Here's another well credentialed and experienced Professor and Scientist making all the same points I've made to you repeatedly.  The studies you are treating like the Bible of your faith are NOT without major concerns coming from many qualified professionals who give very, very credible rationale and evidence for their concerns. 

Do I even have to mention your own contradictions. The one person that constantly questions RCT and prefers to talk about anecdotes suddenly agrees that they are the gold standard of drug testing. Amazing.

Concerning the stage 3 clinical trials. They aren´t telling us a lot about death rates. Why? Because both groups had no deadly outcomes that go beyond fault tolerance. Different story when we are talking about case numbers and severe cases. That´s where the initial efficacy in the 90s is coming from.

We aren´t talking about one group of participants. Approximately 150 clinical trials sides in the United States, Germany, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Argentina.

Next part. He is right that we don´t have any impactful RCT that confirm the observed impact on mortality. But he forgets to mention why we aren´t doing this. Ethical reasons. There is no way to justify a trial like this after the initial trials confirmed a high efficacy. Cannot risk the health of a potential placebo or control group. That´s why we are relying on observational and retrospective methods. In this case the next best option.

It is completly normal for clinical trials to continue after approval (or in this case emergency approval). That´s the standard protocol. Meaning that the complete trial data will not be available prior to the determined end dates. And only upon request. Remember that they have to consider privacy and patient right laws in many different countries.
That´s the area where the quick development impacts the process. And some (I would say many and rightfully so) are arguing that the producers should skip the standard protocols and publish the raw data. The special situation made it possible to "cut the red tape". Should also be possible to skip some data protocols. Obviously not going to happen because no matter how small the chance is the producers aren´t taking any risk and go for legal safety.

But we also have to remember. This wasn´t a normal situation. We are talking about a global pandemic. A global crisis. That´s why the agencies started with emergency approvals. Not full approvals. As of today only one vaccine is fully approved. FDA and CDC waited for more data and information before they made that decision. Billions received a vaccine. And the additional data allowed doctors and researchers to identify rare adverse reactions and adjust recommendations. Leading to the full approval of the Pfizer-Biontech vaccine.

There is a lot of valid research that focuses on vaccine adverse reactions. And it fulfills a very important. Sadly there is also a lot of content that cannot even be considered to be scientific. For some reasons those sources are your favorites. And no you don´t have to be a medical expert to differentiate them (also it certainly helps). Applying scientific methods and critical thinking can be enough.

And yes patient compliance and involvement is important. It is the ideal scenario fo any medical worker/instution-patient relationship. But and I can keep this short there are certain scenarios where it obviously cannot apply. For example risk of self harm or endangering others.
If you want to bring this back to the mandate talk. I am absolutely pro all attempts to convince people that the vaccine is the best option for their specific scenario if that is the case. I also want to inform people if that isn´t the case.
Problem is and that is why mandates exist that some times those attempts are futile but a grave danger requires action to protect the society.
This isn´t coming from my personal opinion. That´s what the supreme court said in 1905. Was upheld ever since. I can tell that you don´t agree. Who knows maybe the curent debate and ongoing law suits will change something.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 1)"Trust the science." one of your mantras?   - He says as I said scientists don't all agree n this matter.  So whose science are we supposed to be trusting?  

Apply scientific methods and critical thinking and you will now. It´s pretty easy. I won´t explain scientific consensus and method again. Quick tip any so called evidence that relies on a premised conspiracy isn´t exactly reliable. Same for content that relies on multiple ad hoc hypothesis to prevent falsification. In this case debunking.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 2)He states as I have repeatedly, dissenting views are critical to advancing science.  What you are subscribing to is very possibly bad science and you double down by advocating that it should be forced into people, or at least some of them.  

Absolutely but for the most part your content isn´t even part of the scientific process. I have mentioned it multiple times. They choose to not engage. Not to publish papers or defend them in front of others. Others do and lots of opinions are getting considered.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 3)The Professor says the data you and others regurgitate so often reporting that death rates are dramatically reduced by the vaccines are contradicted by other evidence.  He further states that some of the reported data would not accepted as causal evidence under normal circumstances. 

I already answered this point earlier. You simply don´t know what he is talking about. No suprise. That has been the story of the last couple of weeks when it comes to your own sources. He is refering to the stage III clinical trial. He is actually telling you what I have been trying to tell you for weeks. RCT are the highest standard of drug testing.
Because the RCT had no deadly event beyond the fault tolerance in both groups researchers couldn´t make any call on the mortality based on that trial. That´s why we are relying on other methods (as mentioned ethical reasons prevent another study that could put the health of placebo or control group at risk).
He is voicing concerns about those methods because they obviously aren´t as good as RCTs. But they aren´t an option. We aren´t talking about normal circumstances. Just comparing mortality between vaccinated and unvaccinated isn´t perfect. As he mentioned. We have to consider all kinds of risk factors but a bigger sample size should be able to even out some of the additional risk factors. Additional measures like algorythms or existing knowledge about those riks factors can also help to account for them.
It´s funny that you are realizing this right now. Are you sure that you don´t want to revisite the article you posted that linke the vaccine to 100000s of deaths around the globe. Now that scientific standards are back on the table you might have a revelation.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 4)  He states concerns that serious scholars and scientists have not been able examine the FDA and CDC evidence for their positions. He claims the information being released comes mostly from highly curated industry controlled press releases.  Unacceptable for good science. 

5) Vaccine manufacturers have not been honoring requests for raw data.  

6) For speed, relaxed standards were implemented and along with the lower standards vaccine studies have not made much of their results publicly. 

Already answered those in the abstract at the top.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 7) He says legitimate scientific challenges have been set aside and labeled as misinformation.  Scientists are being labeled as anti-vaxxer further compromising young scientists objectivity. 

See answer to point one.

(11-11-2021, 09:34 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: To be clear, this is not only about the vaccine injuries and adverse reactions.  Those number as pointed out in an earlier video are clearly magnitudes higher than other vaccines or a normal flu shot but the issue is WHY are there tens of thousands of vaccine adverse reactions and even deaths?  

So we are back to the VAERS topic or similar systems. You still don´t understand what we are talking about. No not tens of thousands of vaccine adverse reactions or deaths. Just VAERS events. At this point you probably won´t learn the difference or you are not acknowledging it for other reasons. Neither scenario would suprise me. It is an open report system. Meaning that anyone (most likely a medical worker but also you or me) can report an event.

Just to clarify it one last time. The disclaimer on the website:
"The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable"
"The inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality"

Severe events and deaths lead to an investigation. That´s how similar systems in other countries found the link to blood clots and myocarditis. It is supposed to find anomalies that wouldn´t be visable in smaller sample sizes. The data is getting compared to a baseline. How many events did we track. How many would we expect in the general population? That´s why no one is panicking. The events were investigated For the majority of them researchers couldn´t find a plausible link to the vaccine. The comparisation to the baseline found no increased risk of death. The event results are within the expected baseline.
Except for the few mentioned cases.

So why are we seeing more events than in other years. First of alll because a lot of people got the vaccine. Way more for example than the yearly flu shots but that still doesn´t explain the large discrapency. Now what makes the COVID vaccines special? The social interest. The media interest. Also the interest in VAERS. In general new vaccines or other drugs all follow the same trend. A lot of reports after the approval/roll out. But once the public loses interest the numbers goes down. That´s what you are refering to when you complain about underreporting. Initially people are more aware and even report mostly mild reactions (rash, fever, flu like symptoms). COVID is taking this to a new level. First major pandemic in the social media age. 24 hours constant news, updates and developments. More people than ever know about VAERS. More people than ever report events.

For more information:

Bottom line: VAERS and similar systems are valuable tools and helped to discover rare adverse reactions. You on the other hand are refering to classic anti vax fearmongering tactics. Misinterpretating the numbers. Acting like all events are directly caused by the vaccine.


All of this wouldn´t be bad if it was just about you embarassing yourself and showing your lack of understanding. But this about more. Misinformation is killing people. And you are contributing to it.
Avoidable infections, illness, severe cases and death. Just because people refused to take the vaccine. COVID is killing 1000s of americans every day. The vaccine would have saved many of them.

I don´t know if I should smash something or if I should cry. When I see some of your posts I want to do both.
It´s reckless. It´s stupid. It´s dangerous. And you aren´t even concerned about it. No signs of responsiblity. Who cares if someone reads the post. Believes the story and refuses the vaccine or chooses an alternative treatment like HCQ instead.

And I know that I won´t reach you. I can only beg you to stop. Consider if you really know what you are posting. Is it actually true? Are the sources reliable? You don´t have to trust me, experts or the government. Just think for yourself. Do you really understand what your sources are saying. Is it even the message that you want to promote.

Started this post more than 2h ago. I thing I am done for today. This is just really really exhausting.

Have a good day and stay safe.
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(11-12-2021, 02:06 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am keeping it short. There is. You still haven´t figured out what scientific consensus means. Doesn´t mean that all people have to agree. Detailed explanation is in an earlier post.

So where you either don't understand my basic premise or we disagree or both is here, my point repeatedly has been is that there is enough smoke to indicate fire somewhere.  
Put another way the variety and quantity of references I've posted demonstrate that there is significant disagreement and contradiction and concerns of varying degrees from a variety of sources including medical professionals, scientists, and citizens from every walk of life. 

Again, to restate my point, one reason that many others like myself are virulently anti-forced vaccine but not anti-vaccine is because there is evidence that support the vaccine both helping many people and hurting many people. Is that stated simply enough to make my point clear?  

You, and those of your mindset almost seem to be arguing that the people being helped outweigh the numbers being hurt to such a degree as to be so inconsequential that is acceptable to force the vaccine on some groups even though some number of them and their are being harmed, some very seriously harmed.  

Stay with me on this please @"dirkfansince1998"  @"Jannemann2" and all of you who seem to take this perspective.  If you're going to continue to trumpet the relativity argument, that the vaccine good so far outweighs the bad as to justify forced injections, then it is at the bare minimum incumbent upon YOU to prove your minimal damage argument. 

Quote:I already answered this point earlier. You simply don´t know what he is talking about. No suprise. That has been the story of the last couple of weeks when it comes to your own sources. He is referring to the stage III clinical trial. He is actually telling you what I have been trying to tell you for weeks. RCT are the highest standard of drug testing.

Wrong again. You're losing track here.  We've posted a lot here.  I'm well aware of the context and limits under which the Professor was speaking.  I pointed out that he is both vaccinated and a supporter of the vaccine didn't I?  Don't you grasp that I'm simply referencing someone that speaks the (limited) language of evidence that you understand and put your faith in?   I'm giving you someone that speaks your language, not because I don't understand your language but because you don't understand mine

Quote:Do I even have to mention your own contradictions. The one person that constantly questions RCT and prefers to talk about anecdotes suddenly agrees that they are the gold standard of drug testing. Amazing.

Sigh.  Undecided  Why is this so hard for you to grasp?   B-O-T-H. Put it another way, All-of-the-Above.  
I've explained extensively why the forms of evidence I consider are more wide than the narrow subset you've been trained to consider valid and authoritative. I won't rehash those explanations.  

You accuse me of being inconsistent when in fact I have offered a variety of sources and forms of evidence to make the case that there are valid problems and concerns with this vaccination. Suppression and politicly driven corruption of science is one of those valid problem.  
You bury your head in the sand at any form of evidence, including personal testimony, so I also add the limited evidential sources you seem to have faith in, RCT. 

Then you accuse me of contradiction. Its absurd.  I never shot down RCT, scientific method or peer-review etc.  You hear what you want to hear.  I explicitly said I support those sources of evidence, have science educational background and include those methods in my own research and analysis.  

All of the above. B-o-t-h.  Its not a contradiction and its not inconsistent to consider broader sources of evidence such both formal science and anecdotal evidence, eyewitness testimony reports of suppressed studies and the possibility of missing and incomplete data etc. etc. etc.  

Quote:Apply scientific methods and critical thinking and you will now. It´s pretty easy. I won´t explain scientific consensus and method again. Quick tip any so called evidence that relies on a premised conspiracy isn´t exactly reliable. Same for content that relies on multiple ad hoc hypothesis to prevent falsification. In this case debunking.

You're sadly boxed in on what you've been clearly trained to accept, that's why I choose to reference forms of evidence and sources that at least come close to your mindset and frame of reference and don't repeat other sources that I know go in one ear and out the other for you, as the old saying goes. 

I'll go back to a examples briefly just to be clear, again.  Remember I told you that early in the pandemic, very early, I had extensive personal discussions with with our own family doctor.  He is quite above average on this topic, even has a radio program and very active Facebook page that has been all over the covid-19 pandemic etc.  

I told you that he also has been supportive of the vaccines in general.  At the same time he also supports HCQ as an effective treatment.  He explained why he reads the studies and labs but also doesn't subscribe to them religiously as it appears you do.  He talks about how doctors in the field himself see literally thousands of patients per month and have their own data inputs in addition to the academic and formal labs, studies and trials.    
I explained to you how the politicization of HCQ forced him either abandon using a treatment that he himself could observe to be working for many patients or get legal cover to continue using it along with other treatments.  He had his lawyers draft a waiver for patients to sign and has continued to offer it where he deems appropriate such as early onset of Covid.  He's had great success with it and other treatments. 

There are news stories, publicly accessible all over the internet showing many, many doctors and medical professionals in the field with the same or similar stories regarding HCQ and other treatments. 

In your narrow world, once an official study came out that should have been the end of it.  Your faith is absolute.  I could sit here and debate with you about those studies and where they might be missing something, just maybe, but what would be the point?  Its extremely time consuming, even more than this loooong post, and your mind would remain as close as it is now.   

So I simply gave you one reference to one very public figure that said her life was saved by what you call misinformation.  Try to grasp this, she said it.  That's a fact, whether you or I believe it or not, its or her story.  You suggest it irresponsible to tell her story?  You see Trump red and get emotionally hot just because his name was somehow linked to it?   Many others, including Doctors claim to get effective results but for you they should be forced into silence. 
Then you call all your views objective science?  Its almost laughable except that its laced with tragic implications. 

So this is why I try to mostly limit responses to you, to the domain you trust in.  Its unfortunate but that's the best we can do to communicate when people subscribe religiously to the methodologies you wash, rinse and repeat so often. 
Quote:But we also have to remember. This wasn´t a normal situation. We are talking about a global pandemic.

Right, which as the professor says required some relaxed standards and rushed processes.  All the more reason people such as yourself should be even less inclined to force inject your fellow human beings knowing the circumstances.  You should know better, given the circumstances.  Let people incur the risks for themselves based on their own choices, especially since the margin of error is wider. 

This is also another reason more consideration should be given to hands on experience, personal eyewitness data inputs and anecdotal evidence.  We haven't had enough time and opportunity to be as accurate and confident with results as you so confidently assert over and over.  
Its a form of intellectual arrogance.  You know the process is rushed, you know some people are helped while others are harmed and you should know that the exact percentages of the hurt/harm is not reliably measured at this point, shouldn't you?  

The many references and posts I've offered either strongly suggest or outright assert that your data inputs from the sources you continually, religiously reference and the methods and processes have not been and are not rock solid accurate or free from manipulation and suppression.  

Many people I've referenced have told you their experiences of deliberate suppression when they have tried to submit their cases, their inputs, their studies.   It appears you are comfortable to either call them all liars or 
assume their numbers are inconsequential. 

I've shared concerns and evidence that those who are crying out, literally crying, posting and creating website, forums, dissenting studies, reaching out to their government representation, even traveling across country to publicly tell their stories. 

I do consider all sources, otherwise if I only considered the dissenting references I shared, I would indeed be anti-vax.  I'm not because there is plenty of data and evidence as you and others have shared that indicates lives are being saved and helped.  There are lives being hurt too.  I don't accept that any numbers being given 
as to what that magnitude and percentage is, are reliable.  

If you listen to the forums and the many, many sources I've given, video, studies, etc. etc. there is plenty of reason for healthy skepticism on the numbers both of deaths of vax/unvax and of general harm/hurt of vax/unvax in general. 

I really respect the clear effort you put in to make your point @"dirkfansince1998", I just very much disagree with some of the blanket assertions and confident percentages you draw your conclusions on, and I've taken considerable time also to make it clear why I disagree and many, many others disagree as well. 
There are two sides this story. 

I summarize again that the idea of forcing injections on the basis of a vaccine with this many valid concerns and objections outstanding, is both irresponsible and morally repugnant.  It is being done, no matter what we argue here.  The ship sailed long ago and I think its fair to say a significant % of those that are vaccinated did so under coercion and threat of their livelihood.  Some unfortunately have been harmed even to the point of death.  

Please note also that VAERS is only one source of data on adverse effects and it is only referenced so often because its a RARE source where the government at least addresses the issues somewhat and its really a half hearted attempt at best toward public disclosure.  Again, watch the video with Senator Johnson and vaccine harmed, they go into much more detail regarding scientific data suppression on the numbers and have many more sources. 

Yes, I can accept that many avoided Covid or a more severe encounter with it but do we know the real numbers that would have overcome Covid anyway via their God-given  Wink natural immune system?   Do we know how many are harmed or will be harmed by the vaccines
I'm not even speculating about long term effects here, this is all right now verifiable harm.  

I'm saying that answer is no, we don't know reliably.  There is evidence to say in a general numbers game, the vaccinations are more helpful than harmful, even though there are some that question even that.   It was also said though that if an adverse reaction happens to you and your family, that number becomes 100% harmful.   
If you could reliably say exactly who will have one of those life changing adverse reactions then ok, at least you could people fears and concerns may not be rational.  Can science reliably say who will have an adverse reaction?  

I gave the link earlier to No More Silence, which I reference again at the end of this post. Did you even click it? Glance at it?  There are young healthy people there.  People that say repeatedly they believed people like you exclusively when they were vaccinated and now they are harmed severely or they are dead their loved ones are left telling the story, many telling it in tears just like those suffering from Covid deaths. 

How can you blow off all of these sources, stories and lives and support force and coercion all the while telling yourself that you somehow hold the moral high ground?  
How do you do that and justify taking away people's individual liberties and choices with a straight face?    
Is it all based on the numbers you trust, or is there a one-sidedness to your morality? 

Many have said clearly their voices and statistical inputs are being suppressed deliberately.  
I've pointed to others offering evidence that the data being reported is not highly reliable so continuing to pretend or though is just my voice is head-to-sand burying.  

Bottom line remains, the forced and coerced vaccination policies are both unethical, immoral and scientifically unjustifiable. 
Quote: Wrote:No More Silence
We are a fast-growing group who have been affected in many different ways by the Covid-19 Vaccine implementation. We are NOT anti-vax and we are NOT conspiracy theorists. 
In fact, all the victims represented within this platform took the Vaccine thinking they were doing the right thing within the fight against Covid-19. We are however pro informed-choice, pro consent, pro science and strongly anti-coercion. 
We also wish to bring into question the reasoning and strategy behind the inordinate levels of censorship surrounding ANY factually correct negative Covid-19 Vaccine news, especially within the mainstream media and social media platforms.
We Want To Be Heard!
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This entire thread is hilarious. 

Good posts @"Dahlsim" Tbh, you're not going to convince anyone else of a position, mostly because it's not coming from the sources they trust or believe in which is why I think you're wasting your time here. Let people that want to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. Let people make their own medical decisions according to your own compass. That's the outgrowth of what me and you believe. 

The outgrowth of others, it be act more authoritatively, which is always wrong in any situation. They feel they are doing a public good; that they are protecting those that cannot be protected without their help. The irony of which, is that they are using the force of gov't and business to do so while simultaneously claiming that it's for your own good. 

And you can't reason with that. 

You know something i've noticed: there are no supported outpatient covid treatments. Not one. I thought that was interesting because IVM falls into that category. The prevailing notion that is that we should all go home, rest and sweat it out; and pray that it doesn't get worse. Coincidentally, the main problem is the lack of treatment from the outset of infection to any eventual hospital visit. But hey, what do I know. 

That aside, the adverse reactions (for a vaccine they are coercing/forcing people to take) is the crux of the issue. Every vaccine has a side effect panel, but the side effects associated with this vaccine are substantial and people have a right to be concerned. 

[...] The point I'd like to make about consensus, is that Consensus is a political word, not a scientific word. Sure, you can have every scientist in the world say X and list the reasons Y, but it just takes one person to disprove X. Science isn't about proving something right, it's about actively trying to prove something wrong; consensus plays nothing into the strength of a scientific theory or argument.

The fact that science currently has a consensus about a thing, does not mean that the consensus opinion is true. At best, it means that the consensus opinion is the best available explanation for observable phenomenon. The possibility always exists that future observed phenomenon will prove that the current observed phenomenon were being confounded and we didn't know it. Whether or not something is the scientific consensus is wholly irrelevant to whether or not it is in fact true. That cannot be stated enough or even too forcefully.

Scientific consensus is wrong a lot. This has been true since science has been practiced. There are literally thousands of instances when the majority of scientists believe falsehoods about every aspect of science from biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, health and medicine. Humans have been misunderstanding and misapplying scientific principles for personal and professional reasons for millennia, and billions of people have paid the price in terms of misery and death because of it. I could probably find 100 examples of misconstrued scientific consensus within a couple of hours starting with the earth is flat and the sun travels around the earth [...]

Needless to say, there are a lot of problems with how science is accepted in the modern age. I mean, not too long ago we were in the middle of global cooling; now global warming. The consensus was also for lockdowns and masking. But as more evidence is discovered and more studies are completed, the consensus changes--for those that were wrong in the first place. So in my eyes, a "consensus" is a distinctly curated conclusion, sometimes based loosely on scientific evidence, often peer reviewed and often ideologically supported. And it cannot be totally trusted as fact.
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(11-13-2021, 10:58 PM)luka_skywalker_77 Wrote: This entire thread is hilarious. 

Good posts @"Dahlsim" Tbh, you're not going to convince anyone else of a position, mostly because it's not coming from the sources they trust or believe in which is why I think you're wasting your time here. Let people that want to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. Let people make their own medical decisions according to your own compass. That's the outgrowth of what me and you believe. 

Thx @"luka_skywalker_77"  Yeah, the time issue occurred to me pages ago. A productive thread that ran its course mostly I think.  I decided its great reference for some other communication work I do so not a waste.  

Excellent points on consensus does not = science, or rather it should not equal science.  In fact by nature consensus is reached often by human persuasion which is not purely objective, it involves some degree of politics almost by definition. 

In fact what you correctly observe here is very much a result of those politics more so than medical science. 

Quote:You know something i've noticed: there are no supported outpatient covid treatments. Not one. I thought that was interesting because IVM falls into that category. The prevailing notion that is that we should all go home, rest and sweat it out; and pray that it doesn't get worse. Coincidentally, the main problem is the lack of treatment from the outset of infection to any eventual hospital visit.

According to the FDA
Quote:The FDA has approved the antiviral drug Veklury (remdesivir) for adults and certain pediatric patients with COVID-19 who are sick enough to need hospitalization. Veklury should only be administered in a hospital or in a health care setting capable of providing acute care comparable to inpatient hospital care.  

There's also Therapeutic products authorized under Emergency Use Authorizations as listed on the FDA’s EUA page.  In fact a good friend recently credited monoclonal antibody treatments with probably saving his life, turning around a covid-19 bout that was worsening. 

To your point thought, mostly I've been hearing people are sent home without treatment. At the same time some Doctors claim extremely high success rates, especially with early detection, all using drugs that are not approved.  
This can be seen as a direct result of these issues we've discussed where the officially authorized scientific positions doesn't match well with the realities on the ground.  Vaccinations become the exclusively favored narrative driven solution, realities be damned.  No wonder people think they have to be forced.
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This thread really turned into a safe ground for COVID related quackery. I will simply ignore your political ramblings and lack of understanding of the scientific process and focus on the links you provide.
It would be lovely if the political authorities would make more decisions that are based on scientific evidence. Sadly that´s rarely the case. Recent example COP26. When it comes to COVID in the US...natural immunity post infection.

How is the evidence based benefit of monoclonal antibodies connected to other treatments that are proven not to provide a benefit like HCQ? One works. The other doesn´t.
To give one more example. The earth is not flat. There is no discussion. Just because some people disagree the earth isn´t a little bit flat. HCQ does not provide a benefit. The evidence isn´t going to change just because some people disagree. There is no middle ground. The strongest evidence defines the scientific consensus. And it is not dogmatic. It can change over time. With new (stronger) evidence.

Monoclonal antibodies work. Problem with them is that they aren´t an option for all patients. Especially as an early treatment and that´s not going to change.
That´s why the search for other anti-viral drugs (also options that focus on symptoms, mostly inflammation) continues. Be it a completly new one or an off-label use.I

I think I am going to take a break from this madness. If only for the sake of my own mental health.
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Now that we are all more aware and waking up to the depopulation effort that the vaccine was a strategic part of we can look back and see who had it all wrong and who had it right.

The victory quite simply belongs to everyone who refused to allow themself to be injected and harmed by taking an experimental unapproved poison.

It was designed to depopulate the worlds population by rendering most women unable to have children not to just kill of the many millions who have died from its poisoning humanity.

This is and was a war crime against all of humanity and we hopefully will see the criminals behind this plot executed in the near future.

You who are pro vax are really pro genocide and genocidal maniacs just like most all of you are leftists as well. You deserve to be publicly shamed and humiliated and possibly if we have our way you all should all have stupid stamped on your forehead with a permanent tattoo.

Great resources to discover actual scientific facts.

You guys who got vaccinated lost the argument and history will mark you as the greatest morons that have ever lived on this planet so congrats for winning that award, you just beat out the people that voted for and elected Hitler.

Most of you are not going to be able to have a child either so there is one brioght side to this all there will be less stupid people being born though I know a lot of you men on the left think you can still have a baby. lol

Can I say that here? Is this still America? or are the leftists infiltrating and taking over so much now that we have no freedom to speak plainly about how and why we feel the way we feel anymore?

I have to ask this since much if not most all of our social networks are heavily censored against anything that is viewed as being conservative or based in factual truth.

Here is a short library of videos to watch, study and learn from so you can start to know the truth if you have not already figured it out.

I assume some of you have not done that yet, but thank God most of us now have.
Lets see what Dr. Yeardon has to say he was a VP at Phizer and was their CSO Chief Science Officer. A nice call for prosecuting pharmaceutical companies for willfully committing fraud and this is not something that they can claim immunity for because the law that took liability off of them required them to produce safe products without committing criminal activity to defraud the public. Of course it is not really a vaccine anyway because there is no weakened virus in any of the shots. They just wanted to call it that for legal purposes.
more from Dr. Michael Yeadon -- mRNA Injections Are Highly Toxic By Design and May Kill Billions
Game Over Bill Gates; World Leaders Decry Vaccine Genocide
Plandemic Bombshell: Dr. Judy Mikovits Exposes Biggest COVID Secret Yet
Brannon Howse w/ Dr. Naomi Wolf: 'Covid Shot CCP Bio-Weapon for Mass Genocide'
STOP THE SHOTS! 40 DOCTORS ASKING FOR THE COVID VACCINE TO BE STOPPED Stop the Frankenclotshot genocide IMPORTANT! SPREAD! highly recommended Stop the child murderers!
Clip From Dr. David Martin's Eye-Opening Discussion with Brian Rose

'The Deadly Disinformation Dozen' - A Few of the Pandemic Lies These Mass Murderers Told
Stew Peters Documentary 'REMEDY'
632 fold increase in child excess deaths across Europe since EMA approval of COVID vaccine for children SPREAD TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN! 2023-07-05 22 34
watch the water documentary with DR. ARDIS

BOTTOM LINE If you took the real mRNA VAX you will lose many years if not decades off your life.

What you need to do to survive: Publicly admit your stupidity and ask for help from an anti vaxxer and maybe they will educate you on how to fix it before it is too late.

I pray you find the ability to ask for help and admit to yourself at least that you screwed up royaly because till you find someone that has access to all the medical research who did their homework to learn how to reverse the damage that was done to you when you played Russian Roulette with your life and took the clot shot.

Sorry but your life is on the line and in decline.

You can go to and compare your vaccine cards batch number to a database of batches and see what vaccine harm from the VAERS database has happened and see if your vaccine was particularly nasty and ended up killing anyone else and or causing serious harm to others.

If it has I would recommend you visit anti vax sites and get educated and ask for others to educate you on all the protocols that are showing promise and that are available for you to try so you can figure out how to heal and learn about all the many dozens of natural supplements that can hopefully help and possibly if you are lucky reverse the damage.

Organ damage is difficult to reverse and to heal so there may be too much damage done and you will need to try extra hard to overcome the damage that has been done to you.

In the end you will all be living out your life either in denial or you will go through the process of grief and acceptance and by accepting your error and admitting it to others you can help others know what the reality of the situation is and help to prevent it happening to others in the lefts future attempt to genocide all of us.

We need to educate the public to the great evil that has taken place so we can prevent it from ever happening again.

All of this was predicted several decades ago and everyone that has ever called someone a conspiracy theorist is guilty of the death that has happened because the people that have been saying that the evil ones on our planet have been plotting these sorts of things for decades and we who study know it and they were predicting this was going to happen, well now most know that they were right and all you critics did was call them consipracy theorists.

That blood is therefore on your hands and if you ever called anyone a conspiracy theorist the karma is still coming for you.

You allowed the world to sleep in ignorance to this future crime which you made possible, if you were on the left by voting for your political leaders pay for absolution.

Let us remind you of the death and evil that the left is responsible for since Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and even Hitler where all leftists and killed well over 100 Million. You can now add Obamas name to the list of great mass murderes since he funded and planned it all along with the NOW NAZI SCUMBAG TRAITORS the Bushes and Clintons.

If you are a leftist there is BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS and you and your kind are guilty of enabling these great evil war crimes that would not have happened had you all not been leftists and not voted for future war criminals but you guys always fuck up and do that. History shows us that.

Obama, Fauci, Soros, and Gates all had their hands in the creation of the pandemic and the vaccine funding it and transferring the technology over to Wuhan, which they had been planning this since the 60's (see Dr. Martin for the paper trail that proves this among the vast number of research programs and patents)

They all profited from it, funded it and had the governments DOD and DARPA create mRNA technology and then send it off to the Pharmaceutical companies so they could get them involved so they could make money from selling us all a cure for a disease they created and then the main stream media lied and spread fear and that caused a huge % of you to commit slow suicide by making you so scared that you willingly got the clot shot. That is the truth about what really happened and you got the shot you had something place in a very dark place and it smell bad there as well. You might want to learn what a joy it is to breath and smell the roses after you learn to pull your head out.


Otherwise very advanced medical technology to fix people will never arrive in time to save you from dying from your greatest of all errors in judgement.

Till we (you) admit you dumb asses were stupid and foolish in massive numbers we cannot marshall a financial response to fund the release of technologies that possibly already exist in secret and so nobody will be willing or able to help you fix your problem soon enough to save your life from fading away from that colossal EFFING UP of taking the clot shot.

That is the bottom line guys your hate of Trump insures you die faster and sooner. What does that tell you about you?

Sorry if you got a shot and you are suffering I had pneumonia and almost died

I ordered a product that you do not know even exists that I thought would cure my issue and pneumonia is a serious issue. I had been a mfg rep for this decade ago and so I knew it would work because it had cured AIDS and CANCER so covid would be easy to cure, but alas I was suffering in the ICU as FEDEX took 10 days to get it to me, well actually I had it shipped to my moms so she could smuggle it into the ICU and give it to me.

Then I took off my oxygen mask and I took it over about an hour slowly and then I hoped and prayed it would work to heal me from that pneumonal bacteria which more than likely was the true cause of my predicament caused from wearing a mask at work no doubt and not likely caused by a virus at all.

Next day I was rewarded with some good news.

"Looks like you are improving and you will be getting out of the ICU your numbers have improved"

Well you leftists almost killed me but you screwed up and let me smuggle my own medicine into the ICU and it worked so now you have a war to deal with and I will take no prisoners, I will make sure you are all exposed for your evil.

Guys another pandemic is being planned complete with more lockdowns and even more draconian tyranny.

You better pray I let you know what I got cured with.

If you support the left expect this evil to happen again and for all your older relatives to be killed off this time.

I will never share cures with anyone who even treats a leftist in a civil manner they are all vile evil filth and deserve to be shunned by all right thinking men.

Treat them nice and they will never wake up to the path that they are on being the wrong one. You may as well kick them into the pit of hell yourself. Only by slapping sense into these evil bastards will we save any of them from their own stupidity.

Being a leftist needs to be outlawed and all who lead the left need to be arrested and investigated for their great evil and corruption and their connection to the genocidal crimes against humanity whicch we very easily can now prove they are guilty of and the penalty for such treason for which most all are guilty of is to be executed after they have all been allowed to face a military tribunal of justice.

In the future it needs to be made a criminal offense to be a leftist and they all need to be locked up and treated like the criminal murderous scum that they all are.

Ecclesiastes 10 1

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. If a ruler's anger rises against you, do not leave your post; calmness can lay great errors to rest.

Matthew 25:41

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. watch this and know what is coming for you if you took the vaccine and you happily hide your head in the sand to ignore learning the way to heal your damaged body.

This is what happens to those who took the vaccine and we see it happens in great numbers so what are the odds it has happened to someone you know and loved?

I Know people that died as a result of this evil plot and I know that I will expose it and call for justice till my dying breath. Wise men will warn others of the great demonic evil that secretly rules our nation under the guise of supporting democracy and calling themselves democrats pardon me but they all need to be called demoncraps.

Our nation is not a demonocracy it is a republic and our founding fathers all despised democracy.

Those who support democracy call upon our destruction and engineer such an evil fate to exist. They seek death and destruction for us all. The path of a fool is the identical path of a democrat.

Either they confess their errors in judgement and go and sin no more or they deserve to face the consequences of their evil ways.

They engineered the entire covid 19 plandemic and deserve to face judgement day for their great evil crimes.
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SCROLL DOWN TO FIND A POWERFUL Example of a working and useful legal demand letter to force a halt to all administration of the unsafe covid vaccines along with a demand to confiscate all remaining inventory to safeguard the public from further harm. 

Combine this with legal funds and threaten to charge as a criminal conspirator any who fail to adhere to the law of the land as it exists today and for your information at least one law today makes the administration of these vaccines a violation of the Nuremberg code for which the penalty is execution. You can read the demand letter to learn of many more. 

They are already executing doctors that have failed to safeguard the public from the harm caused by these toxic poisonous ingredients in other countries.

All evil scumbags that have conspired to genocide humanity with the release of this deadly toxic and now known to be fraudulent vaccine are hereby notified that you will be charged and found guilty in a military tribunal and anyone who conspires to keep the facts as they are from the public is to be considered guilty of giving aid and comfort to these evil traitors to the entire human race. 

All traitors, enemies and those who have given them aid and comfort should be treated equally as enemies of humanity and as enemies of humanity they are deserving of the same fate for the crime of genocide and so those guilty of collaborating with the genocidal war criminals should know they will be hunted down and face justice as well because you work in in service to the greatest evil threat that has ever been documented to threaten humanities existence. 

We will hunt you all down just like people hunted down the NAZI war criminals who fled Germany to other nations after WW2. 

Executions are hereby demanded for all the criminals who put the entire plot together.

In the future it may be legal to pursue any and all culprits across all borders to conduct an all out manhunt for any and all such criminals and conspirators. 

Those found guilty will be pronounced guilty after facing a military tribunal and we anticipate that hundreds of thousands will be arrested and put before a military tribunal that will be held in the near future to punish all guilty parties. 

If your name is on the list of collaborators then expect to be rounded up along with those who hatched the plot and sent to prison at the very least. 

If it is determined that you contributed to the death of a fellow human being then the firing squad or gallows is what you deserve and should be your fate. 

Executives, Doctors, Scientists, Politicians, Government Researchers, Administrators, Media Company Executives and even Employees who will argue they where just following ORDERS you will all face the tribunal if you committed such crimes and because you are guilty of war crimes you will be pronounced guilty if the evidence shows us that you are guilty. 

There may be many others we hold responsible including any executives in companies or government that in their administrational capacity they engaged in making their employees get the a vaccine in order to keep a job or position or to maintain any benefit or receive any financial reward for doing so. 

You too could be executed there is zero chance you will escape this fate if you deserve it. 

To require an employee to get vaccinated was attempted murder at the very least and decades in prison or execution in the case where a death or severe disability resulted is the prescribed punishment that we the greatly harmed public should seek. 

__________________________________ here is the professional demand letter that is best for our use _______________________________

DEMAND: Immediately Stop Distribution, Access and Administration of COVID-19 mRNA Nanoparticle Injections Across All (NametheCounty) Vaccination Facilities and Seize Inventory
Attention: Sheriff John Smith, Deputy Sheriff Jane Doe

CC: (list friends, church members, family, media and attorneys who have given permission)

It is well-established that the FDA clinical trials for the ‘COVID-19 vaccines’ (hereafter referred to as ‘COVID-19 nanoparticle injections’ or ‘mRNA nanoparticle injections’ or ‘COVID-19 injections’) were not designed to clinically and statistically demonstrate that the COVID-19 nanoparticle injections  prevent infection, prevent transmission, or protect against disease, hospitalizations, and death.1-7

FDA clinical trials, US government data,  and real-world evidence have demonstrated that mRNA nanoparticle injections cause clinically significant increases in mild-to-moderate disease, serious diseases, disabilities, hospitalizations, and death within days, weeks and/or months of receiving COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections in formerly healthy infants, children, and adults.2,4,6-13, 79-81

The COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections were administered to civilian adults and children through unlawful human experimentation, specifically whereas the clinical safety risks were known by the FDA to outweigh any potential clinical benefits and the COVID-19 injections were administered without informed consent regarding;

the composition and variability of the COVID-19 nanoparticle injections’ vials,

the gene-editing mechanism of action of COVID-19 nanoparticle technologies, and

the known harmful, permanently disabling and/or sometimes deadly clinical outcomes of being injected with engineered COVID-19 nanoparticle technologies. 2,4, 9,14-55,82

This DEMAND is sent to the attention of “Sheriff John Doe and Deputay Sheriff Jane Smith,” who are hereafter referred to individually and collectively as “COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT.”

            WHEREAS the ‘COVID-19 vaccines’ contain engineered nanoparticle technologies per the manufacturer’s product labeling, FDA submissions, US military contracts, peer-reviewed publications, patents, and manufacturer’s websites;1-8,11,14,19-24,26,32-37,51 and,

            WHEREAS Pfizer ignored and violated 21 USC laws for conducting safe and legal experimentation on humans with the use of FDA-regulated products when Pfizer stated that the formulations of their COVID-19 injections distributed to US adults and children varied by LOT number, per Pfizer’s approved August 23, 2021, biological license application (BLA);4,11,15-19 and,

WHEREAS Pfizer’s criminal experimentation on civilian adults and children with the use of varying biotechnologies in their COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle formulations by ‘vaccine’ LOT number (with some lots known to inflict harm, ranging from serious diseases and disabilities to death), combined with lots that are placebos (known to be harmless), was confirmed by a scientific European analysis of 52 different Pfizer mRNA nanoparticle ‘vaccine’ LOTS, administered to 4,026,575 persons who received 10,793,766 doses (an average of 2.7 injections/person) between December of 2020 and January of 2022;79-81and,

WHEREAS the FDA and ‘vaccine’ manufacturers (i.e. Pfizer) clinically established that the COVID-19 injections would cause an unprecedented incidence of disease, permanent disabilities, and death, when on October 22, 2020 (before the ‘COVID-19 vaccine rollout’) the FDA met with the manufacturers and reviewed this ‘working list’ of harmful clinical outcomes caused by the injections; nervous system disease (convulsions, seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome myelitis encephalitis, encephalopathy, encephalomyelitis, narcolepsy, cataplexy, meningitis, meningoencephalitis acute demyelinating diseases), cardiac disease (acute myocardial infarction myocarditis, pericarditis, stroke), blood and circulatory disease (disseminated intravascular coagulation, thrombocytopenia, venous thromboembolism), musculoskeletal disease (arthritis, joint pain), reproductive and pregnancy disorders (adverse pregnancy outcomes, adverse birth outcomes), autoimmune disease (VAED, multisystem inflammatory syndrome), and death;9 and,

        WHEREAS 696,605 nervous system disorders, 539,299 musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders (92,942 pain in extremities), and 317,811 gastrointestinal disorders, 224,633 skin, hair and nail disorders, 190,720 respiratory and chest disorders, 178,353 female and male reproductive system disorders (erectile dysfunction, infertility, heavy menstrual bleeding), 167,382 victims developed bacterial, viral, or parasitic infections (24,9010 herpetic infections), 126,993 cardiac disorders, 100,970 blood and lymphatic system disorders, 77,148 psychiatric disorders, 73,542 vascular disorders, 61,518 eye disorders, 47,038 ear and labyrinth disorders (15,833 tinnitus), 31,895 autoimmune disorders, 13,647 kidney and urinary disorders, 3,711 cancers and benign cysts, 4,056 pregnancy complications (1,859 spontaneous abortion complications, 1,143 genetic disorders, and 3,814 deaths were documented in an internal Pfizer document as of June 18, 2022;56 and,

WHEREAS 17,560 deaths, 83,092 hospitalizations, 116,479 urgent care visits,194,594 doctor visits, 36,014 anaphylaxis/severe allergic reactions, 13,515 cardiac events/conditions, 17,076 permanent disabilities, and an additional 14,494 life threatening events have been reported into the CDC’s VAERS database as of June 16,2023, with an estimated 100-fold underreporting factor per a Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare Analysis commissioned by HHS;57-58 and,

WHEREAS more than one (1) million adverse events were reported in the VAERS database (1,055,219) in the year 2021 from the COVID-19 injections, including; hospitalizations, permanent disabilities, anaphylaxis, heart attacks, miscarriages, adult, child, and newborn deaths which is more than ALL reported adverse events from ALL childhood and adult vaccines over the past 20 years combined prior to the COVID-19 injection rollout (1990 -2020);57 and,

WHEREAS based on data from the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED), it was reported that US military men and women experienced a 2,181% increase in hypertension,  1,048% increase in nervous system disorders, a 894% increase in malignant neoplasms of esophagus, a 680% increase in multiple sclerosis, a 624% increase in malignant neoplasms of digestive organs, 551% increase in Guillain-Barre syndrome (paralysis), a 487% increase in breast cancer, 487% increase in demyelinating disease (damage to the myelin sheath protecting nerve fibers of the brain, optic nerve, and spinal cord), a 474% increase in malignant neoplasms of thyroid and other endocrine glands, a 472% increase in female infertility, a 468% increase in pulmonary embolism, a 452% increase in migraines, a 437% increase in ovarian dysfunction, 369% increase in testicular cancer, and a 302% increase in tachycardia;10 and,

WHEREAS data collected by the Joint Artificial Intelligence Center (JAIC) of the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), demonstrated that among 5.6 million Medicare beneficiaries 65 years and older who received Pfizer’s or Moderna’s mRNA nanoparticle technology injections or remained uninjected, 71% of COVID-19 cases occurred in fully-vaccinated seniors and 60% of COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in fully-vaccinated seniors as of August 7, 2021;59 and

WHEREAS data published by the CDC on June 15, 2023, demonstrated that in adults who were fully vaccinated or fully-vaccinated and boosted, and who were formerly immunocompetent (healthy) experienced an increased risk for hospitalization due to COVID-19;60 and,

WHEREAS more than 4 million Americans reported a Grade 3 adverse event (as defined as ‘unable to perform their daily functions’) and approximately 200,000 (2%) required admittance to the emergency room or hospital after receiving a COVID-19 injection according to the CDC’s V-Safe database of 10 million US residents who were early recipients of COVID-19 injections as of July 31, 2022;61 and,

WHEREAS 403,396 Florida residents who were early recipients of COVID-19 injections, 167,005 (41.1%) reported a Grade 3 adverse event (unable to perform their daily functions) and 8,471 (2.1%) required admittance to the emergency room or hospital after receiving a COVID-19 injection per the CDC’s V-Safe database report as of July 31, 2022;61 and,

WHEREAS Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo identified 16,406 cardiac deaths from Florida’s disease repository (MERLIN), Florida State Health Online Tracking System (FLSHOTS), and death records, in adult Florida residents within 25 weeks of a 1st or 2nd mRNA nanoparticle injection; 3,417 of these cardiac deaths occurred within 28 days of a 1st or 2nd mRNA nanoparticle injection and none of these deaths were attributed to COVID-19 infection or a history of heart disease;62 and

WHEREAS a recent systematic review of 100 studies, including case-reports and case studies, demonstrated that the average rate of myocarditis (a formerly rare disease among healthy adults and children) is 1.62% post COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injection, as well as demonstrated a clinically significant incidence of cardiomyopathy, pulmonary embolism (PE), and vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia post COVID-19 mRNA injection;63 and,

WHEREAS it is clinically established that the mRNA ‘spike proteins’ and ‘lipid’ nanoparticles cross the barrier membranes of the cardiovascular, respiratory, reproductive, and central nervous system (including the brain); causing inflammation that can result in disease, disability, and death, per peer-reviewed publications and research & development Pfizer documents;52-55,64-67 and

WHEREAS there were 195% excess mortality claims in the State of Florida made to Group Life Insurance companies in July-September of 2021, during the time period when President Biden’s previously announced COVID-19 vaccine mandate was to go into effect by July 4, 2021, for all employed Americans;68-69 and,

WHEREAS the CDC recorded an excess of 492,851deaths in the United states in 2022, and an excess of 64,375 deaths in the first 14 weeks (Q1) of 2023;70 and,

            WHEREAS on November 20, 2020, Pfizer stated in writing that the risk-benefit ratio of their COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections were not favorable (unfavorable) for children 12 to 15 years of age, based on FDA submitted data from 100 injected children from their Phase 3 trial;2 and,

            WHEREAS on June 10, 2021, the FDA Vaccine and Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) stated in writing that it would not be infeasible (it would be impossible)  to conduct a clinical trial that could clinically and statistically prove that any vaccine could prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection and/or COVID-19 disease in pediatric populations because teenagers, children, and infants rarely (if ever) become infected or present with symptoms;16 and,

            WHEREAS children who received two (2) COVID-19 injections are 1400% (15x)  more likely to die of any cause than unvaccinated children and children who received three (3) COVID-19 injections are 4400% (45x) more likely to die of any cause than unvaccinated children per UK Government data;13,71 and,

            WHEREAS, COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections induce anaphylaxis, appendicitis, fevers of greater than 104 degrees Fahrenheit, seizures (with eye rolling), convulsions, status epilepticus (seizures lasting more than 5 minutes and multiple seizures that can lead to permanent brain damage), epilepsy, exanthema subitum (herpes induced fevers and seizures), hypotonia (limp ‘lifeless-like baby syndrome’), permanent brain damage confirmed by an EEG, and lissencephaly (genetic-induced brain malformation characterized by the absence of convolutions/folds), per Pfizer’s June 15, 2022, FDA clinical trial data submission of 6 month old babies through 4 year old toddlers; in which a subgroup of 370 toddlers (2 to 4 year old) only 21 toddlers (5%) made it to their 1-month study follow-up visit after receiving their 3rd COVID-19 mRNA injection, and in a subgroup of 344 babies (6 to 23 months old) only 3 babies (1%) made it to their 1-month study follow-up visit after receiving their 3rd injection of COVID-19 mRNA injection; reasons for discontinuing or withdrawing from the study included adverse events, neurological dysfunctions, ICU admission, hospitalization, and death (but reasons for discontinuation or withdrawal need not be noted by the investigator);14 and,

WHEREAS the engineered COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticles can cross the blood brain barrier causing demyelinating disease (deterioration to the protective covering of nerve cells) including permanent changes to nerve cell structures, nerve cell damage, and nerve cell death in the spinal cord and brain leading to permanent brain and neurological disorders and diseases, such as the 696,605 neurological disorders and diseases documented by Pfizer;53,55,56,65,67 and,

WHEREAS the engineered mRNA nanoparticles cross the biological barriers of the male reproductive system accumulating in the testis and epididymis adversely affecting sexual health in men, including; sperm quality, quantity, morphology, and motility, and affecting male hormones causing reproductive organ dysfunction such as the 178,353 female and male reproductive system disorders documented by Pfizer (including male erectile dysfunction, infertility, and testicular pain); 53,56,67 and,

WHEREAS the engineered COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticles cross the biological barriers of the female reproductive system accumulating in the ovaries, placenta, and uterus, causing reproductive dysfunction including damage to eggs and follicle development, and adversely affecting the health of women, unborn babies and newborn babies, as was demonstrated by the 178,353 female and male reproductive system disorders and 4,056 pregnancy complications (including heavy menstrual bleeding, irregular menstruation, spontaneous abortions, and infertility); 53,56,67 and,

WHEREAS the engineered mRNA nanoparticle technologies in the COVID-19 injections are classified as electromagnetic devices per Pfizer’s Operation Warp Speed contract and Title 21 US Code 351(a)(2)(B), and the 2017 FDA Guidance on Drugs and Devices;23,24,49 and,

            WHEREAS the engineered nanoparticle technologies in COVID-19 mRNA injections are gene-editing technologies per Pfizer’s May 18, 2021 FDA-submitted biological license application stating that the COVID-19 mRNA mechanism-of-action is through RNA transcription (nucleoside substitutions) substituting the genetic material of human cells within human bodies with foreign genetic material;4,25,28,29 and,

            WHEREAS the engineered nanoparticle technologies in COVID-19 mRNA injections are gene-editing nanotechnologies that use cationic liposome technologies to alter human DNA through RNA transfection; as has been described in Pfizer’s biological license application (BLA), on Pfizer’s website, in Dr. Robert Malone and colleagues’ 1996 patent “Delivery of Exogenous DNA Sequences in a Mammal” for cationic liposome technology; and as is demonstrated in multiple scientific papers and Pfizer’s internal report of 1,143 genetic diseases spontaneously reported post- COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injection; 4,25-51,56,72,73 and,

            WHEREAS it is an established scientific fact that the engineered nanoparticle technologies in the COVID-19 mRNA injections are gene-editing technologies with known and uknown risks for; integrating non-human DNA into the human genome, transmission of foreign DNA into the germline (genetic mutations passed from parent to child through sperm or egg), passage foreign genes into sperm, embryo/fetal and perinatal toxicity, genotoxicity (DNA damage that can lead to birth defects and diseases i.e. cancers), and the potential for horizontal transmission (i.e., shedding) is further confirmed in a June 9, 2023 peer-reviewed publication in the International Journal of Molecular Science;82 and,

WHEREAS the COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections were NEVER proven to prevent infection, disease, hospitalization or death, per Pfizer’s November 20, 2020, FDA submission, in which Pfizer stated in writing that out of 18,198 human subjects originally injected with BNT162b2, 11% or two-thousand and fifty-three (2,053) developed mild, moderate, or severe COVID-19 disease within 2 months of the 1st or 2nd mRNA nanoparticle injection; 1-3 and

WHEREAS 19 (0.1%) deaths were reported by Pfizer within 3 days -142 days (less than 4 months)  post- Pfizer mRNA nanoparticle injections in previously healthy human subjects per Pfizer’s May 18, 2021, post-hoc analysis;4 and,

WHEREAS the rotovirus vaccine (RotaShield) was pulled off the US market in 1999  due to five cases (0.05%) of respiratory infection among 10,054 pediatric vaccine recipients;75 and,

WHEREAS the manufacturers of the COVID-19 nanoparticle injections NEVER submitted clinical trial evidence demonstrating clinically and statistically significant protection against; infection, symptomatic illness, medically attended illness, including emergency department and urgent care visits, or severe illness, including hospitalization and death, but did submit clinical data demonstrating an increased risk of heart inflammation, vaccine-related enhanced respiratory disease, and vaccine-related enhanced autoimmune diseases per Pfizer’s August 23, 2021 FDA approval and Moderna’s January 30, 2022, FDA approval;20-22, 75 and,

            WHEREAS the engineered nanoparticles in the COVID-19 injections are nanotechnologies designed to force human cells to produce disease-causing pathogens known as spike proteins, spike proteins that are established lab-made pathogens that cause disease, disabilities, and death per dozens of scientific and clinical publications, abstracts, and patents as well as Pfizer’s internal documents and website;4,19-22,26-67 and,

            WHEREAS the engineered nanoparticle technologies (aka vaccine nanotechnology) in the COVID-19 mRNA injections are patented for use as a nanocarrier of an ‘agent of biowarfare,’ per US Patent Number 9539210, VACCINE NANOTECHNOLOGY;76 and,

WHEREAS COVID-19 injections containing engineered mRNA nanoparticle technologies meet the legal definition of biological weapons according to 18 USC 175, Ch. 10: BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS which is a biological agent, toxin and/or delivery device for use other than prophylactic (preventative), protective, bona fide research, or other peaceful purpose;77 and,

            WHEREAS, COVID-19 injections containing engineered mRNA nanoparticles meet the exact criteria of weapons of mass destruction according to F.S.790.166;78 and

            WHEREAS, a person who manufactures, possesses, sells, delivers, displays, uses, attempts to use, or conspires to use, or who makes readily accessible to others a weapon of mass destruction commits a felony of the first degree per F.S.790.166;78 and

            On behalf of ____________, I am demanding that COUNTY LAW ENFORCMENT issue a cease and desist to immediately stop distribution, promotion, access and administration of COVID-19 mRNA nanoparticle injections to All NAME OF COUNTY Vaccination Facilities by _____ and to seize their mRNA nanoparticle injections inventory by __________.

Vaccination facilities are defined as all entities including but not limited to, a business entity, government entity, healthcare provider, educational institution, or individual within NAME OF COUNTY, as defined in Florida Statutes Sec. 768.38.

Vaccination facilities and administrators who do not comply with the cease and desist and immediate forfeit COVID mRNA nanoparticle injections inventory will be in violation of  in F.S.790.166 and may subject imprisonment and/or fines.


By: __________________________           

2 Corinthians 10: 3-6
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.


2.    Gruber M. (Dir CBER/OVRR), Naik R., Smith M., Wollersheim S., Huang L., et al. Pfizer Inc. on behalf of Pfizer and BioNTech; “Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for an Unapproved Product.” Review Memorandum; Nov 2020.

3.    Polack F., Thomas S., Kitchin N., et al. for the C4591001 Clinical Trial Group; “Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine” New Engl J Med; Dec 10, 2020; 383:2603-2615.

4.    Naik Ramachandra, PhD, Review Committee Chair, DVRPA/OVRR. BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH in partnership with Pfizer, Inc. “COMIRNATY (BNT162b2): Active immunization to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in individuals 16 years of age and older” FDA Approval of the Biological License Application (BLA) for BNT162b2/COMIRNATY; Submitted May 18, 2021. Reviewed November 8, 2021.

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[-] The following 1 user Likes myconsumerclub's post:
  • Dahlsim
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(07-28-2023, 03:20 PM)myconsumerclub Wrote: Now that we are all more aware and waking up to the depopulation effort that the vaccine was a strategic part of we can look back and see who had it all wrong and who had it right.

The victory quite simply belongs to everyone who refused to allow themself to be injected and harmed by taking an experimental unapproved poison.

Hi @myconsumerclub.  
Looks like you've found a discussion thread where the activity ended late 2021. 
I appreciate your passion here.  

My position remains firmly against the government forcing people to be injected/vaccinated particularly when the efficaciousness and overall safety risk of a forced drug is hotly debated at best even among credentialed scientists and medical professionals. 

What has occurred since this discussion activity here ended late 2021?  
From where I sit the forced vaccinations have at best eroded millions of people trust in our government and made millions more citizens see our "medical" and "scientific" communities as often divided and participating the political battle rather than being being objective and factual in their conclusions. 

The divide is deeper and stronger because its based on divided values. 
That is a tragic and dangerous outcome at this point certainly for our country and many others.
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