Feeling different this season

[hakeemfaan]

I am a long time Mavs fan as many here. Stuck through the team when they absolutely stunk in the 90s. There was a brief glimmer with the Kidd/Mash/JJ big 3.  Then Dirk came in and started to blossom and it was different for so many years. 

Whether the team was a legit contender or not; whether I was frustrated or not, there was a feeling of being vested. There were tears flowing when we won and more than for the team it was for Dirk and his loyalty. 

Not sure if it is due to my age(51 now), following Dirk whose personality and loyalty to a fault, that many of the older gen like me could relate to, but this era feels different. The whole mess this off season and the dysfunction that apparently had been going on and still is, Cuban going relatively cheap the last decade or so, Luka’s game while fabulous is not something I can relate to like Dirk’s ( playing within the system while being highly efficient) , the whole local TV coverage fiasco, and worst of all just feeling that due to the personnel mistakes and being stuck, Luka will most probably leave sooner than later. 

Might be just old man swearing at the clouds, and I know owners were never loyal, but IMO the NBA needs to look at this whole movement of stars and stars forcing themselves out ( I know Kareem did it too, but it was rare). Or maybe the NBA doesnt care since their whole approach has been to promote a few teams and know that the masses in other cities will show up anyway.  Am I alone or in the minority on this?  Do most here, and I know many virtually for many years now, still have that strong vested interest in the team?  Younger ones I can understand still rooting strongly but this was mainly to those who followed this team from when Dirk stepped out of a plane with his goofy haircut.

[ItsGoTime]

In all honesty, I've not put much of a priority in figuring out how I'm gonna watch the games/what games I'm gonna see in person this season. I have gotten busier in RL, but I made sure I paid whatever source I needed to to watch the games. Even in the last couple years, I haven't put a priority on watching every second of every game, which is weird for me. I feel myself moving on from the NBA, but I haven't been able to yet admit to myself that I'm completely done. 

This is for sports in general though. I used to watch Football and some Baseball and sprinkled in some Hockey in between Basketball games. Now I don't watch or go to Rangers games, I only watch Football when the Cowboys are good/hyped to be good (mostly the beginning of the season) and Hockey is out too. 

I'll probably eventually figure out how to watch Mavs games this season cause I really think they will be pretty good this season. I just haven't found the motivation to do so yet.

[Kammrath]

[michaeltex]

I get where you are coming from. Remembering the Nash fiasco and the post-2011 "dry powder" moves, it's a true testament that Dirk hung on until the end of his career. 

Luka is never going to feel quite the same as Dirk because he is the initiator, as well as the finisher in some cases. Dirk was the recipient of good setups by people like Nash and Kidd. But DAL has Luka signed for 5 more years, so there is time and success will bring desirability for FAs looking to chase a ring.

I know the star movement makes a mess of things. The CBA tried to address this with FA restrictions and luxury taxes. But when the LALs sign a sponsor who pays $100MM+ over 5 years for a patch on the jersey, then taxes aren't much of a problem. Maybe a better solution in the next contract?

Personally, I'm excited about a new season and being able to see the team play and how the new players fit. I'm not sure the team is any better than last season, but I'm hopeful that new surroundings are conducive to elevate the new guys and looking forward to the results.

I also extremely disappointed that Cuban and his team have not done anything to improve the local broadcast accessibility. Maybe there are contractual barriers, but having the games available isn't going to hurt attendance and it may reduce the fanbase if it continues.

[fifteenth]

I am a long time Mavs fan as many here. Stuck through the team when they absolutely stunk in the 90s. There was a brief glimmer with the Kidd/Mash/JJ big 3.  Then Dirk came in and started to blossom and it was different for so many years. 

Whether the team was a legit contender or not; whether I was frustrated or not, there was a feeling of being vested. There were tears flowing when we won and more than for the team it was for Dirk and his loyalty. 

Not sure if it is due to my age(51 now), following Dirk whose personality and loyalty to a fault, that many of the older gen like me could relate to, but this era feels different. The whole mess this off season and the dysfunction that apparently had been going on and still is, Cuban going relatively cheap the last decade or so, Luka’s game while fabulous is not something I can relate to like Dirk’s ( playing within the system while being highly efficient) , the whole local TV coverage fiasco, and worst of all just feeling that due to the personnel mistakes and being stuck, Luka will most probably leave sooner than later. 

Might be just old man swearing at the clouds, and I know owners were never loyal, but IMO the NBA needs to look at this whole movement of stars and stars forcing themselves out ( I know Kareem did it too, but it was rare). Or maybe the NBA doesnt care since their whole approach has been to promote a few teams and know that the masses in other cities will show up anyway.  Am I alone or in the minority on this?  Do most here, and I know many virtually for many years now, still have that strong vested interest in the team?  Younger ones I can understand still rooting strongly but this was mainly to those who followed this team from when Dirk stepped out of a plane with his goofy haircut.

You and I have been following the Mavs and posting on message boards for a long time together. I'm 49 and I believe we've both been on Mavs message boards since the late 90's early 2000's. Is that right? All that probably doesn't matter to everyone else, just doing some old man reminiscing. 

I always respect your opinions, but my thoughts are a little different. I'm not as invested these days but it's due to the time requirements of work, having a family (5yo and 7yo) and other things that are now a higher priority than watching sports, rather than being frustrated by sports. 

I'm actually not bothered by the players gaining power in their partnership with the league. My thought is, good for them. The players are importatant enough to professional sports that it should be more of a partnership than it was in the past. 

I get frustrated about Cuban's and the team's mistakes, just like everyone else, but that hasn't made me less of a fan, and I usually find something hopefull to hang on to. BUT...I don't invest my emotions like I did when I was younger. The importance level of whether or not the Mavs are good has gone way down for me, as other more important things in my life have risen above the Mavs. 

I actually really like Luka's game. I can't compare my interest in Luka and his Mavs to my devotion to Dirk and his Mavs, though. But that's not because I don't like Luka's game, it's because I'm in a different place.

And I don't think it's inevitable that Luka leaves. Maybe Luka will be like Giannis. Maybe the Mavs will actually win. I guess my reduced investment in the Mavs these days (compared to pre-family and pre-other life stuff) has me in a place where I enjoy keeping tabs on the Mavs (and they're my favorite sports team by a million miles), but I can just let it all happen in real time without worrying about the future. There is nothing in me that is waiting for all the bad stuff to happen. 

The funny thing about that last paragraph is that I extracted my emotions from the Cowboys and Rangers sometime back, but I casually now assume that they'll both keep making all the same mistakes that they always make. But with the Mavs, I'm much less invested than before, but somehow I was able to keep my hope that good things will happen. Not sure how to explain that.

[fifteenth]

continued from above

I'll also add that I find our current Mavs to be very likeable. Cuban is still frustrating, but it seems like he might be moving towards correcting some dysfunction by stepping back and letting Nico organize and run the front office. 

Here are some ways that I find the Mavs likeable

-I'm becoming a fan of Nico, like to hear him talk about "servant leadership", and hope that it's more than just talk.
-I love watching Luka play. I get awed by his skill and love that he has so much fun on the court.
-DFS is one of my favorite Mavs of all time because of his work ethic, his attitude and how he transformed his game from sub-NBA level to NBA starter.
-Want loyalty? THJ is your huckleberry. Love watching Timmy. Love to watch him shoot, but also, his overall game, his offensive diversity and hustle are underrated on this forum. Timmy loves the Mavs and he's a joy to watch.
-I want to be a KP fan. We'll see if that mobility and defense come back. 
-We may need another top of the rotation talent, but man, Kleber, Brunson, Josh Green, Powell and Boban are easy to cheer for. They may not all last the new regime roster turnover, and I'll be happy if they get upgraded, but they're all fun to cheer for. 
-Listening to Bullock and Sterling Brown talk, and thinking about them playing D and shooting open threes is fun to think about.

I don't know if this roster is ready to win the way we want them to, but from a fan perspective, they're not a hard bunch to cheer for. Bring on the upgrades, but as long as these guys are here, I'm going to enjoy them.

[michaeltex]

I don't know if this roster is ready to win the way we want them to, but from a fan perspective, they're not a hard bunch to cheer for. Bring on the upgrades, but as long as these guys are here, I'm going to enjoy them.

Well said!

[hakeemfaan]

Just to clarify. This is nothing against the current crop. They might be the nicest guys. Heck I rooted for this team when we had Muurasep and a lot of other lesser talented players. 

I get Luka’s game is different and I have been a RC critic as well. But it does look now like a lot of the one man show offense we saw was Luka ignoring RC. Hopefully that changes. 

The bigger issue is regardless of long term a deal Luka has signed, the trend seems to be that if he is unhappy tomorrow, he can force a trade and there is nothing the team can do. 

Great points all. Ignore me. Kamm pic summarized it well.

[fifteenth]

Just to clarify. This is nothing against the current crop. They might be the nicest guys. Heck I rooted for this team when we had Muurasep and a lot of other lesser talented players. 

I get Luka’s game is different and I have been a RC critic as well. But it does look now like a lot of the one man show offense we saw was Luka ignoring RC. Hopefully that changes. 

The bigger issue is regardless of long term a deal Luka has signed, the trend seems to be that if he is unhappy tomorrow, he can force a trade and there is nothing the team can do. 

Great points all. Ignore me. Kamm pic summarized it well.

Nah, not going to ignore you, pal. You bring up legitimate concerns. If Luka was ignoring Rick and he continues to ignore the new coach, and the offense doesn't diversify...that's no bueno. Also, the superstar forcing himself off a team is legit. It happens. I get it.

[KillerLeft]

the whole local TV coverage fiasco

This really is a bummer. I don't think it's Cuban's fault, like at all, but not having a face to put with the anger doesn't lessen the sting any. And you're absolutely right - the result will be apathy, for more and more people as time goes by until this gets resolved.

[Hypermav]

Sports has less escapism value to me.  

It doesn't change my passion for the Mavs but that would be the "different feeling" for me.

[Paul Gasol]

A great thread, and one I was actually considering starting myself for a while.

It’s really hard to explain, but for some reason, I’ve found myself less and less invested in the team over the past few seasons… like, I still watch 82 games a year, but increasingly I’ve found myself cheering for a blowout by half time so I can stop watching early…

It almost feels like burnout; I’ve been cheering the team so hard for the past 16years (I've been on the boards the whole team, just not an active poster), that I just have no more to give…

If it wasn’t for Luka, I’d definitely think about taking a season off, but with this kind of generational talent, what mavs fan can miss a game?

This off-season I’ve kind of realised the problem for my ennui was probably Donnie and Carlisle, so I’m prepared to don my mavs gear for another season, and see how things shake out. Still, I’d really like for things to turn around in a hurry… the treadmill of mediocrity that we’re on is draining…

[michaeltex]

I get how you feel.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s when the Cowboys were on all the time. The closest local teams were the STL Cardinals and the Aints. (although I always wanted Archie to have a winner) So it was easy to become a Cowboys fan, but the continued mediocrity (at best) has me ready to bail on a season unless they have early success. I'm a fan, but I just don't get emotionally invested anymore. Thanks, Jerry.

Personally, I'm not in the same place with the Mavs, although my feelings are getting more guarded, especially once the playoffs start. But the Luka Show is so much fun to watch that it gets me invested hoping for positive returns and I'll probably watch every game I can get my hands on (no Ballyvision).

[chaparral]

Feeling different this season:  For me we should have all felt different this season.  We got a new GM and HC this offseason.  We had over $30mil to spent in FA.  We should of felt the hope of something new is finally going to happen.  But in the end it was all the same old Mark Cuban stuff of the last 3 off-season's.  All we did the last 3 seasons is gone from Matthews to Wright to JRich and now to Bullock.  The main core (7) guys are all the same from Luka's rookie season - KP, DP, MK, DFS, THJ, Burke and Brunson.  And (9) if you add Boban and WCS from Luka's 2nd year.

So for me, feeling different this season is more of feeling the same.  But still hoping that the wow factor of a new GM and HC is just around the corner.

Let's Go Mavs...

[MFFL]

I'm been a fan since the Mavs drafted VanDeWeghe (booooo!) and have went through all the incredible highs and lows

But I'm having trouble being as interested because of the difficulty of watching games (I tried streaming games but most of the time got the other teams announcer)

I can't believe a tech guy like Cuban would let his team go dark like that. He's got enough money to cancel his network deal and stream the games for free. But Cuban has gone from an innovator to just another rich guy who doesn't care about the fans

[Dahlsim]

...

Might be just old man swearing at the clouds, and I know owners were never loyal, but IMO the NBA needs to look at this whole movement of stars and stars forcing themselves out ( I know Kareem did it too, but it was rare). Or maybe the NBA doesn't care since their whole approach has been to promote a few teams and know that the masses in other cities will show up anyway.  Am I alone or in the minority on this?  

Do most here, and I know many virtually for many years now, still have that strong vested interest in the team?  Younger ones I can understand still rooting strongly but this was mainly to those who followed this team from when Dirk stepped out of a plane with his goofy haircut.

Thanks for sharing.  Appreciate your transparency.   Its a point I have found interesting so My 2 cents. 

You're not just an old man swearing at the clouds.  There are massive cultural changes at play and some of us are old enough to personally observe it over several decades as opposed to primarily reading about it.  My point being, the clouds are real whether you choose to swear at them or not. 

Objectively there are large societal changes happening in the U.S. (of course that impacts the world) and the NBA along with the entertainment complex in general are very actively involved in it.  In other words its not just about basketball, some very real and major upheaval is going on.   

The NBA player empowerment movement is itself a slice of the massively changing cultural environment so I'll confine my comment to that here. 

 the masses in other cities will show up anyway.  Am I alone or in the minority on this?  

The element that I find gets lost in the whole player empowerment movement is the fact that the empowerment shift is not just about a power struggle between the players and the owners.  
What is generally missed is the way that the NBA cities and the fans of the teams representing those cities are affected. 
Essentially when players gain power to do things like choose their own teams and cities or even break their NBA contract terms under the CBA they don't take power away from owners only, they take power away from NBA fans and cities.  Those fans and cities may be non-parties directly to the contracts but they are certainly indirectly impacted.  

So when a player who gets tens and hundreds of millions of dollars ultimately sourced from NBA fans and cities decides to spurn one city and choose another based on his own personal whims, the rejected cities basically can do practically nothing about it.  Its as though they are not a party to it at all even though they are both financially and emotionally impacted.  

If it were the owners only involved the city and fans could try to apply real pressure and negotiate with them e.g. around their stadium, taxes etc.  Since its a player and their own desires that dictate the power the fans and cities represented are reduced to ridiculous actions like taking out billboards literally begging the player to please, please, pretty please stay with our city.  
So player empowerment has not only weakened owners it has also weakened the power of NBA cities and fans.   The selected destination cities and their team fans are the winners, to the rest of fans and cities player empowerment says "Let them eat cake." 

Younger ones I can understand still rooting strongly

Thanks to the bigger cultural shifts, we as fans, as a whole have willingly given up power and influence. The narrative is that its only a struggle between players vs owners and of course who cares about billionaire owners?  
Fortunately for the NBA there have still been top NBA stars like Dirk, Duncan and now we seen Giannis that essentially are loyal guys who have some natural appreciation for the fans that appreciate them and ultimately pay them and empower them.  

For every Lebron, AD, Harden out there loading up with their own Super Pickup team under player empowerment there's an NBA star that chooses to stick with their fans and cities.  Of course the NBA empowered that by things like Max contracts to team's drafted players under the CBA but hey it has worked. 

Giannis for example took the big money of course but he also said "this is my city". 
After the Bucks championship he said that he felt so much better staying and winning with Milwaukee. 
According to him its easy to go a Super Team and win a cheapened ring. Of course not any player could do even that but be we know what he means.   

Guys like that in the Dirk mold keep me at least somewhat interested despite my issues with the league or teams I follow.  Here's hoping the Mavs give us something other than the Uniforms worth staying engaged. 

[cow]

Hate is too strong of a word but I'm not sure how to describe what the modern NBA has become.  Player empowerment is important and if I put myself in their shoes, I'd want to work with my friends too.  But from a fan perspective, it all feels a bit hopeless.  Unless you are a destination city, building a contender is highly unlikely.  2011 and 2021 contradict this, but Dirk and Giannis are the exceptions and not the rules.  You could point back to San Antonio, but who knows how loyal Duncan would have been if he hadn't of played on loaded teams throughout his career.  An all time great coach and front office couldn't keep Kawhi. 

Look at Portland.  They lost an all-time great in LaMarcus and are on the cusp of losing Dame.  Both are standup people and Dame's loyalty is way more similar to Dirk than it is LeBron.  Then look at the Pelicans.  You lose AD and luck into Williamson, but you can't be happy because there are already grumblings of him wanting out and he's only been in the league for two years.  I feel terrible for those fanbases.  

Now circle back to our very own Mavericks.  I like a lot of things about Mark Cuban, but I really believe modern NBA ownership has passed him by.  Oddly enough, how the Jones family operates would be MUCH better for what's going on the NBA.  They are full of marketing innovators and understand salesmanship and relationships.  

I guess the benefit of the Lakers and Nets this next season is that I have no expectations for our own team and that leads to a transcendent level of watching and appreciating your own team.  And heck, they might just surprise us.

[fifteenth]

@"cow", I get what you're saying. The LA teams and Miami seem to have an advantage in free agency, especially if they're any good at all at the time. But that's not the entire story.

One of the reasons that AD left was that they weren't able to build a good team around him. Aldridge played 9 seasons with Portland and the attempt to win with him had kind of run it's course. Seems like he and the team were both ready to try something different. Lillard is about to play his 10th season with Portland. He may leave, but they had ten years to try to build a better team around him. Harden with with Houston for 9 years and stayed until that thing started to become a train wreck. Beal has somehow shown loyalty to Washington. Booker shows no signs of wanting to leave. Jazz players seem loyal to them, and they've built a great team, even though Utah is such a bad city. 

Jokic is still in Denver. Embiid is stil in Philly. Luka signed his second contract. 

Here's what I think. It's easier for LA and Miami. Other than that, you have to build a good team by being smart (examples of this are all over the league), and if you do, you have a good bit of time to try to win. Giannis didn't just stay with the Buicks out of loyalty (though it was part of the equation). He stayed also because the Bucks built a really good team around him that gave him a chance to win. 

Pick your top 16 teams going into 2021 and LA, LA and Miami are there, but so are 13 other teams that aren't destionation cities. 

You can call the Nets a destination if you want, but that never really helped them until KD decided he wanted to build his kingdom there. If NY is a destination, it hasn't helped the Knicks lately. 

Short story. I think the fear of destination cities and superstars leaving is overblown. The fear is bigger than the reality, imho.

[KillerLeft]

Short story. I think the fear of destination cities and superstars leaving is overblown. The fear is bigger than the reality, imho.

I think you might be right, but unfortunately, it's case-by-case. And, we won't know we're safe for about 4 more years. To @"cow"'s point, we really have no choice but to worry about that, at least a little. I don't know what the solution is, or who to blame, or even if it's a bad thing, really, but the fear is real enough to have us talking about it.

[fifteenth]

I think you might be right, but unfortunately, it's case-by-case. And, we won't know we're safe for about 4 more years. To @"cow"'s point, we really have no choice but to worry about that, at least a little. I don't know what the solution is, or who to blame, or even if it's a bad thing, really, but the fear is real enough to have us talking about it.

Fair enough. I did actually say that the fear was overblown, not that it was completely irrational. 

Once upon a time you could lose and keep your players because players couldn't leave. Now you have to win to keep your players. I can see where that can be a bit scary, but it's not all that new. 

Maybe the new thing is players forcing their way out mid contract. That doesn't scare me much. It still doesn't happen a lot. Simmons situation isn't even exactly that. The team said and did things to push him away. 

Maybe my Mavs take here is just based on how I live my life. I don't really fear bad things happenning in the future. I just wait and do all the suffering after they happen! :-) 

Inordinate fear just means you suffer before and after, instead of just after.