Creating w/o another Creator?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Much has been made of the lack of a "secondary creator" this off-season.

Much has been made of the three point shooting ability of additions Bullock and Sterling Brown.  Even Frank N. has had some corner 3 success in limited attempts the last two seasons.

Focus on those two things alone and one might presume Dallas will continue to run a very similar offense to what it has been running.  Space the floor with shooters and let Luka take advantage of the space created.  

But, Kidd coached teams did things differently.  The Smoking Cuban had an article last month that pointed out that Dallas was 29th in cuts per game (scoring a super efficient 1.3 points on such plays).  Milwaukee under Kidd was third in the league.  The article also pointed out that Kidd's 16/17 team was fourth in drives and 2nd in assist percentage off those drives.  Dallas was 13th and 15th in those metrics.  Bottom line, there are other ways to "create" if you don't have  a natural secondary creator.  You create through movement.  

I think Kidd will want to play with more force offensively meaning percent of O at the basket goes up and percent of O from behind the arc goes down.  Don't get me wrong.  We will still throw up a lot of three's.  Having players who are good at that will create tons of space.  Kidd's history says we may take advantage of that space differently than we have in the past.  This may help us when it comes to the playoffs and open three's are more difficult to come by.  The SC article made this point, but stopped short of looking at who on the team is any good at scoring from cuts or driving and dishing to create open looks from places other than our heliocentric star.  

Let's take S. Brown for instance.  Many focus on how good of a marksman he became last season.  But, he was also in the 88th percentile in Cut Points Per Possession and the 93rd percentile in PPP off screens.  He's not a PG, but was in the 87th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rates and 72nd percentile in Drive/Assist Rate (he can also get to the rim unassisted...92nd percentile).  Bullock doesn't cut much or get to the basket much.  But, when he gets closed out on and puts the ball on the floor he's in the 93rd percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rate and 72nd percentile in Drive/Assist Rate.  I don't know if Frank N. will play much (or even make the final 15).  But, if you go back a season when he actually played, he was another strong drive and dish guy with a Drive/Pass-Out Rate in the 87th percentile and a Drive/Assist Rate in the 96th Percentile.

BTW, look for DFS to be a beneficiary of this style of play.  He's in the 99th percentile in PPP off Cuts and 95th percentile in PPP off screens.  He's in the 95th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rate and 79th percentile in Drive/Assist Rate.  He's also in the 87th percentile in Finishing at the Rim.  I don't know that we saw enough of Josh Green to know what we have there.  But, he looks to have great timing on his cuts (99th percentile in Cut PPP) and is a willing passer (88th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out Rate).  He was only in the 55th percentile in Drive/Assist Rate, but his Potential Assists per 100 passes and his Passing Creation Quality are both very high.  Put another way, much of his O is lacking, but if he's asked to move without the ball and move the ball when he gets it, he's likely to excel. 

All numbers come from BBall Index.  Not all of these guys did these things with great frequency, but when they did cut or drive and dish, they did it well.  I loved the ball movement the last two seasons when Luka sat.  How much better might the offense be if we could have more ball movement when he's on the floor and do it in a way where he doesn't have to generate every assist himself.  I don't think we fully take advantage of the space created by having good shooters on the floor when guys are simply standing in the corners hands up while watching Luka work his magic.  Living and dying by the three isn't a great strategy in the playoffs.  We have to "create" more offensive diversity.  Since we didn't add it through another play-making creator, we have to get it from somewhere else.  It looks to me that we are going to add it through a much greater emphasis on ball-movement and people-movement.  The additions we brought in are really good at spreading the floor, but the thing many of us might have missed focusing on 3% is they are also good at some other things that Kidd has historically emphasized.

[Kammrath]

there are other ways to "create" if you don't have  a natural secondary creator.  You create through movement

AMEN. The ball handler can create offense OR the teammates without the ball can create offense with their own movements. 

AND to take full advantage of Luka's passing skill, cutting needs to be fully utilized.

[mavsluvr]

Good points. Thanks for doing all the research and writing it up!

[KillerLeft]

Off-ball movement is amazing. Would love to see more of that. 

You still need more than one player capable reading the situation and either making the pass or taking two dribbles to create the necessary angle to make the pass. There's no offensive system that can negate that need, imo, and no single player talented enough to be the only facilitating option.

[ReunionMav]

Agee. Thank you Dan. We did have periods of time that I noticed us cutting to the basket well. Perhaps it is Luka who needs to add this type of offensive plays to his game. For that matter we still have Brunson who is very good at adding new things to his game.

[F Gump]

Good points, and a reasonable try at making lemonade out of lemons.

But in looking for pluses that may emerge from the lack of another creator of offense, let's not imagine this was the preferred way all along, and some sort of Kidd priority.

The Mavs were TOTALLY FOCUSED on adding a secondary creator, and failed to get one this summer (at least, so far). That was clearly what they felt was most important. Plain and simple. And they whiffed.

[fifteenth]

I read Dan's post differently than @"KillerLeft"and especially @"F Gump". I didn't read the post and then think that Dan was saying (1) that the Mavs don't need a secondary creator, (2) are ok with not getting a secondary creator or (3) might have a plan to remove the need of a secondary creator. 

Here's what he says that mentions a secondary creator.

Bottom line, there are other ways to "create" if you don't have  a natural secondary creator.  You create through movement.  

My takeway wasn't "this is the plan instead of a secondary creator", it was "here's another way to create scoring that can diversify the offense and there is a little evidence that the Mavs might be think that way."

I think we need a scondary creator, regardless. Ideally, we could have a secondary creator AND better player and ball movement!

[Jmaciscool]

I read Dan's post differently than @"KillerLeft"and especially @"F Gump". I didn't read the post and then think that Dan was saying (1) that the Mavs don't need a secondary creator, (2) are ok with not getting a secondary creator or (3) might have a plan to remove the need of a secondary creator. 

Here's what he says that mentions a secondary creator.




My takeway wasn't "this is the plan instead of a secondary creator", it was "here's another way to create scoring that can diversify the offense and there is a little evidence that the Mavs might be think that way."

I think we need a scondary creator, regardless. Ideally, we could have a secondary creator AND better player and ball movement!

This was the take I got as well. More of a potential shift in how Dallas might play that can add creation in and of itself but not necessarily a replacement for getting a second creator.

Agree that ideally we have both!

[michaeltex]

Personally, I'd like to see more movement, if only to eliminate the hair-pulling tendency for everyone to spot up on the 3pt line and take the first semi-open shot. Falling in love with 3s seemed to be a killer at times last season. It was dramatic when it worked and DAL was raining on the other team, but IMO they would tend to get lazy at times and have no other options when the rain stopped.

[Chicagojk]

Much has been made of the lack of a "secondary creator" this off-season.

Much has been made of the three point shooting ability of additions Bullock and Sterling Brown.  Even Frank N. has had some corner 3 success in limited attempts the last two seasons.

Focus on those two things alone and one might presume Dallas will continue to run a very similar offense to what it has been running.  Space the floor with shooters and let Luka take advantage of the space created.  

But, Kidd coached teams did things differently.  The Smoking Cuban had an article last month that pointed out that Dallas was 29th in cuts per game (scoring a super efficient 1.3 points on such plays).  Milwaukee under Kidd was third in the league.  The article also pointed out that Kidd's 16/17 team was fourth in drives and 2nd in assist percentage off those drives.  Dallas was 13th and 15th in those metrics.  Bottom line, there are other ways to "create" if you don't have  a natural secondary creator.  You create through movement.  

I think Kidd will want to play with more force offensively meaning percent of O at the basket goes up and percent of O from behind the arc goes down.  Don't get me wrong.  We will still throw up a lot of three's.  Having players who are good at that will create tons of space.  Kidd's history says we may take advantage of that space differently than we have in the past.  This may help us when it comes to the playoffs and open three's are more difficult to come by.  The SC article made this point, but stopped short of looking at who on the team is any good at scoring from cuts or driving and dishing to create open looks from places other than our heliocentric star.  

Let's take S. Brown for instance.  Many focus on how good of a marksman he became last season.  But, he was also in the 88th percentile in Cut Points Per Possession and the 93rd percentile in PPP off screens.  He's not a PG, but was in the 87th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rates and 72nd percentile in Drive/Assist Rate (he can also get to the rim unassisted...92nd percentile).  Bullock doesn't cut much or get to the basket much.  But, when he gets closed out on and puts the ball on the floor he's in the 93rd percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rate and 72nd percentile in Drive/Assist Rate.  I don't know if Frank N. will play much (or even make the final 15).  But, if you go back a season when he actually played, he was another strong drive and dish guy with a Drive/Pass-Out Rate in the 87th percentile and a Drive/Assist Rate in the 96th Percentile.

BTW, look for DFS to be a beneficiary of this style of play.  He's in the 99th percentile in PPP off Cuts and 95th percentile in PPP off screens.  He's in the 95th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out rate and 79th percentile in Drive/Assist Rate.  He's also in the 87th percentile in Finishing at the Rim.  I don't know that we saw enough of Josh Green to know what we have there.  But, he looks to have great timing on his cuts (99th percentile in Cut PPP) and is a willing passer (88th percentile in Drive/Pass-Out Rate).  He was only in the 55th percentile in Drive/Assist Rate, but his Potential Assists per 100 passes and his Passing Creation Quality are both very high.  Put another way, much of his O is lacking, but if he's asked to move without the ball and move the ball when he gets it, he's likely to excel. 

All numbers come from BBall Index.  Not all of these guys did these things with great frequency, but when they did cut or drive and dish, they did it well.  I loved the ball movement the last two seasons when Luka sat.  How much better might the offense be if we could have more ball movement when he's on the floor and do it in a way where he doesn't have to generate every assist himself.  I don't think we fully take advantage of the space created by having good shooters on the floor when guys are simply standing in the corners hands up while watching Luka work his magic.  Living and dying by the three isn't a great strategy in the playoffs.  We have to "create" more offensive diversity.  Since we didn't add it through another play-making creator, we have to get it from somewhere else.  It looks to me that we are going to add it through a much greater emphasis on ball-movement and people-movement.  The additions we brought in are really good at spreading the floor, but the thing many of us might have missed focusing on 3% is they are also good at some other things that Kidd has historically emphasized.

One of my wishes this offseason was a big who could pass.   A guy who you could run off ball motion with and backdoors.   Someone Marc Gasol from a few years ago,  Kevin Love from a few years ago, or Draymond Green type player.   I think this could unlock many more options for us on offense, even if we lacked a guy who could really create off the dribble.   

I agree with what you are saying above, but do we have the guys to make this strategy advantageous for us?

[F Gump]

My takeway wasn't "this is the plan instead of a secondary creator", it was "here's another way to create scoring that can diversify the offense and there is a little evidence that the Mavs might be think that way."

I think we need a secondary creator, regardless.

I don't disagree with this. But I was never really arguing against the ideas being shared. It's a natural outcome in getting useful players that they will have some various skills and strengths that add to the equation. The OP did a good job of finding some of their pluses.

But they still need another creator of offense. That was the mission, and the gaping hole is still as big as it ever was. To whatever extent that we might posit these skills might have been the preference, or some sort of ace up the sleeve plan B, or some sort of feasible workaround, that's what I can't get on board with and want to stave off.

[ClutchDirk]

All last season when there were 4 guys waiting to chuck threes I was hoping to see Green get minutes because he seemed to be the only player who actually moved around the court for the entire 24 seconds...

That is the reason I am high on him even though he has no real offensive game yet...

Also this write up by Dan is better than a lot of the beat writers out there...so much knowledge and facts presented in each new Dan post with no bias or favoritism...

[fifteenth]

But they still need another creator of offense. That was the mission, and the gaping hole is still as big as it ever was. To whatever extent that we might posit these skills might have been the preference, or some sort of ace up the sleeve plan B, or some sort of feasible workaround, that's what I can't get on board with and want to stave off.

I agree. Well said.

[F Gump]

One of my wishes this offseason was a big who could pass.   A guy who you could run off ball motion with and backdoors.   Someone Marc Gasol from a few years ago,  Kevin Love from a few years ago, or Draymond Green type player.   I think this could unlock many more options for us on offense, even if we lacked a guy who could really create off the dribble.   

I agree with what you are saying above, but do we have the guys to make this strategy advantageous for us?

What you are talking about is a secondary creator of offense -- only from a different position. Drive-and-kick is not the only way to create offense, and you're noting one of the others.

It would need to be a big with amazing passing skills, but probably who also would tend to draw double-teams to open passing lanes. I wonder if they envisioned this for KP ... but if so, it sure hasn't worked out yet.

[Chicagojk]

What you are talking about is a secondary creator of offense -- only from a different position. Drive-and-kick is not the only way to create offense, and you're noting one of the others.

It would need to be a big with amazing passing skills, but probably who also would tend to draw double-teams to open passing lanes. I wonder if they envisioned this for KP ... but if so, it sure hasn't worked out yet.

Yeah. I agree.

I thought KP showed some potential of this during his first year here.   He still didn't look very natural doing it but I had some hope he could at least show some progress like Dirk did.   I never thought Dirk was great at this either.  

Although, last year I can't remember hardly any passes like this from KP.   He very rarely touched the ball inside the three point line and had guys moving off him.   Maybe this is something we will see them force feed him?  I could see this as an easy way to gain KP trust by telling him we are going to get you the ball here and run motion off you.   I thought some of the KP frustration last year is he would go multiple possessions without ever touching the ball.

[ClutchDirk]

Hopefully Luka and KP can gel better on court with a new coaching staff and philosophy...unlocking that duo may make a secondary creator less urgent...running a stagnant offense is another factor in why I believe KP can be a better contributor and is the reason I hate Bob V the most due to KP being made to stand and chuck...just having more movement on offense should help KP more...especially if KP is moving into spots where he can get his and the rest of the team is doing their part to get him easier offensive looks...

[mavsluvr]

this write up by Dan is better than a lot of the beat writers out there...so much knowledge and facts presented in each new Dan post with no bias or favoritism.

+77

[DanSchwartzgan]

I read Dan's post differently than @"KillerLeft"and especially @"F Gump". I didn't read the post and then think that Dan was saying (1) that the Mavs don't need a secondary creator, (2) are ok with not getting a secondary creator or (3) might have a plan to remove the need of a secondary creator. 


My takeway wasn't "this is the plan instead of a secondary creator", it was "here's another way to create scoring that can diversify the offense and there is a little evidence that the Mavs might be think that way."

I think we need a scondary creator, regardless. Ideally, we could have a secondary creator AND better player and ball movement!

Yes.  At some point we can hopefully move from should-have and could-have to what we actually-have.  I thought the Smoking Cuban piece that showed some differences between Kidd's tendencies and Mav tendencies to be interesting.  But, the article didn't go any further in terms of evaluating whether the guys we added are adept at making that kind of change.  It appears to me that they are.