TAKE DAT WIT YOU 9/8

[mavsluvr]

Brian Dameris and Mark Followill give us a few updates.
 

Working out Monta Ellis, Lance Stephenson, Isaiah Thomas

These guys could theoretically offer instant offense off the bench, which is an area of need for the Mavs. The only player currently on the roster who provides that is Brunson. 

Notwithstanding the need, Brian and Mark read the situation as more of a case of Nico doing these three guys a solid by helping to generate interest in them, rather than as an intent to choose one of them for the roster. All of them come with red flags. Monta hasn't been in the league for a VERY long time. Lance has personality-related baggage, and hasn't played since the 18-19 season. Isaiah was cut down by injuries, is very small, and played only 43 games combined in the last two seasons. 

The chances that any of these players will actually make it on to an NBA court and help a team are not high. If the Mavs decide they want to give any of them a chance, they might extend them a make-good training camp invite, but the podcasters don't look for even that much to happen. 


Porzingis

The good news on KP is that he is already back in Dallas. That should give him a leg up in terms of getting ready for the season. 

KP's performance suffered a massive drop-off last season, and he and the team will work  to get him back to the player he used to be. In addition to his health problems, KP was quite unhappy with the role that Bob’s analytics indicated for him (for example, being relegated to serving as a decoy in the playoffs). That is what may have led to his asking to be traded if the old regime was going to stay in place. It was NOT that he had a problem with Luka. 

These cold facts remain. 

(1) KP can’t play center if he can’t protect the rim. 

(2) He can’t maximize his impact as an offensive player if he can’t serve as a threat around the basket and provide vertical spacing. 

KP used to be very good at these aspects of the game, but his performance has fallen off, possibly due to health reasons. The team will have a major focus on getting him back up to speed health-wise.  

In terms of coaching, Kidd will be looking to fashion a new role for him. The podcasters speculate that Kidd might use KP in some similar fashions as Dirk was used back in the day — maybe more of a midrange game, more isolation plays, etc. Those strategies are not favored by the analytics crowd, but if that’s what it takes to get the most out of KP, maybe that’s what they need to do. The podders don't think that kind of role would have to drag down the offense. He can break free with some of his preferred stylings as the best player in a second unit, for example, where he is not taking those kinds of opportunities at the expense of a better shot by Luka or another teammate. 

Luka and KP will also have to work on developing their on-court chemistry in the new system. If they could develop a two-man game, that would be great. In any event, KP is the key to the team taking another step this season. 


https://www.patreon.com/mavspod/posts

[KillerLeft]

Same stuff, over and over, from everyone. KP is key. KP is crucial. Blah, blah, blah. 

I hope he's better this season, I really do.

[Tyler]

That is what may have led to his asking to be traded if the old regime was going to stay in place.

Seems newsy. We knew KP was unhappy, but I don't remember ever hearing a claim that he asked to be traded. Did Brian and Mark actually confirm this, or was it speculation? It's hard to tell from the phrasing of the "may". In any case, if that's true then I respect him for being professional about it and not pitching a fit in the media. And I also am thankful that the organization was able to maintain the high-level relationship beyond the immediate conflict to the point where it can be constructively resolved. That's a good sign of maturity on both sides.

I also have high hopes that new coaching can help unlock his potential. I was probably just as frustrated as KP was last year watching how Carlisle was using him in the offense. Maybe that was Rick, BV, or both. But it doesn't really matter. No matter how you cut it, I think it was a clear example of trying to fit the player to the system rather than the system to the player. I look forward to watching Kidd's plan for maximizing KP's impact on both ends.

[KillerLeft]

I also have high hopes that new coaching can help unlock his potential. I was probably just as frustrated as KP was last year watching how Carlisle was using him in the offense. Maybe that was Rick, BV, or both. But it doesn't really matter. No matter how you cut it, I think it was a clear example of trying to fit the player to the system rather than the system to the player. I look forward to watching Kidd's plan for maximizing KP's impact on both ends.

I might buy this thinking if I felt like there was anything to point to that had been successful for him in the past omitted by last year's system. The thing is, all that midrange stuff everyone is talking about...it's not the fault of analytics that they stopped going to it, it's the fault of Porzingis. He's not very good at those things. Dameris told a story on an earlier podcast about how he watched one of the Clippers games sitting next to Dirk, and all Dirk talked about was how shocked and disappointed he was that Porzingis had no "moves" to get good shots off in iso situations.  To this point, he has NOT been a good player underutilized, he has been an overrated player utilized perfectly on offense, to the tune of his most efficient season ever. Not a max contract season to be sure, but improvement. 

And how on Earth will feeding him the ball at the elbow so he can piss away possessions help him on defense, which is the part of the game in which he must help?

[Tyler]

To this point, he has NOT been a good player underutilized, he has been an overrated player utilized perfectly on offense, to the tune of his most efficient season ever.

Most efficient season, yes. And also perhaps his worst season since his rookie year. IMO, that's the problem with over-relying on advanced stats. There's more to basketball and player development than spreadsheets.

I've gotta think Kidd may have a few other ideas beyond standing KP in the corner and feeding him non-stop isos at the elbow. If nothing else, I like the idea of seeing what it takes to make him as productive as possible. No more excuses on either side. And it's a terrific opportunity not only for KP to show what he's made of but also for Kidd to reestablish some coaching cred. It's in the interest of both parties to exceed expectations.

[mavsluvr]

Seems newsy. We knew KP was unhappy, but I don't remember ever hearing a claim that he asked to be traded. Did Brian and Mark actually confirm this, or was it speculation? It's hard to tell from the phrasing of the "may". In any case, if that's true then I respect him for being professional about it and not pitching a fit in the media. And I also am thankful that the organization was able to maintain the high-level relationship beyond the immediate conflict to the point where it can be constructively resolved. That's a good sign of maturity on both sides.

Yes, I was struck by their manner of mentioning this. It was like they were taking it for granted that the listeners knew that it had happened, and they were offering exposition about the reason for it. That rumor has been buzzing around for awhile, but I don't remember if anyone had seemingly confirmed it yet. 


They appeared to be attributing KP's trade request to his dissatisfaction with his role. They indicated that his role was recommended by Bob, and Carlisle accepted the recommendation. If KP wanted out "if the old regime stayed in place," then I have to interpret this as his being dissatisfied with Bob, rather than other parties. I say this because he was planning to stay when Carlisle was still slated as coach, I doubt that Donnie's role would have put him in any kind of direct conflict with KP, and the podcasters said Luka was not the problem.

[Hypermav]

Kidd says he is going to give KP the answers to the test.  

Too bad it is a Rorshach. 



Here's to KP and a fresh start.

[omahen]

all Dirk talked about was how shocked and disappointed he was that Porzingis had no "moves" to get good shots off in iso situations.

Totally agree with this. I think once teams figured out they don't need to put a center on KP but guard him with more or less random wing, his impact is totally killed. He doesn't have any moves (other than fade away jumper which is not really that accurate) unless the offense sets him up with that half a step advantage. But I am sure Mavs know that.

[omahen]

They appeared to be attributing KP's trade request to his dissatisfaction with his role. They indicated that his role was recommended by Bob, and Carlisle accepted the recommendation. If KP wanted out "if the old regime stayed in place," then I have to interpret this as his being dissatisfied with Bob, rather than other parties. I say this because he was planning to stay when Carlisle was still slated as coach, I doubt that Donnie's role would have put him in any kind of direct conflict with KP, and the podcasters said Luka was not the problem.

I am not really here to defend Carlisle, I have no idea what was going on. But I don't really appreciate how all of a sudden Carlisle is made a scapegoat for all the problems Mavs had by Dallas based writers. Before Carlisle decided to leave (he wasn't fired!), they were viciously defending him from every critique. None of these beat writers ever even hinted at a possibility that Carlisle might be any source of problem, yet now all of a sudden this has totally changed...

[mavsluvr]

Same stuff, over and over, from everyone. KP is key. KP is crucial. Blah, blah, blah. 

I hope he's better this season, I really do.

Actually, this was sort of the vibe I got from the podcast. 

It didn't seem like a particularly optimistic take. More a case of -- here are the main areas KP is falling short, and they are going to try to address them as matters of health and role. Health is TBD. As far as his role, now they're going to have to resort to things that analytics folks would tell you are a bad idea. So, since we're all Mavs fans, let's cross our fingers and hope it works. 

That type of thing.

---

I am not really here to defend Carlisle, I have no idea what was going on. But I don't really appreciate how all of a sudden Carlisle is made a scapegoat for all the problems Mavs had by Dallas based writers. Before Carlisle decided to leave (he wasn't fired!), they were viciously defending him from every critique. None of these beat writers ever even hinted at a possibility that Carlisle might be any source of problem, yet now all of a sudden this has totally changed...

These particular beat writers didn't indicate that Carlisle was a problem, other than taking Bob's recommendations, which, if one is to believe the rumors, was not particularly optional.

[omahen]

Perhaps I can just post it here

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fdallas-mavericks

[michaeltex]

They indicated that his role was recommended by Bob, and Carlisle accepted the recommendation.

 This seems counter to the narrative after the season where there was tension between Bob/Donnie/Rick that was hurting efficiency and productivity.


If Rick "accepted" the recommendation, then he either agreed with it or disagreed and used it anyway to demonstrate Bob's inteptitude to Cuban. Maybe losing Donnie as the buffer is the reason he quit.

I'm OK with the fresh air of a new management team, but it was a very unexpected change(by outsiders anyway).

[pskills4life]

Hey, do you mind posting the 9/1 podcast episode summary? Thank you!

[mavsluvr]

Hey, do you mind posting the 9/1 podcast episode summary? Thank you!

This was posted in the thread entitled "why the Mavs may already be much better," on 9/1. For convenience, here is a copy of the summary. 


Dameris and Followill Updates 9/1



THJ. Biggest positive takeaway from the player introduction conference was how warm and sincere Timmy was. After a difficult first season here, he really warmed up to the place. Badly wanted to stay here, and instructed his agent to make it a priority to get a deal done if one was available. Very committed. 

Bullock. Dameris expects him to start. Thinks he may replace DFS role in guarding the opponent’s best wing, and that he might also be able to offer a little playmaking. 

Green. In retrospect, were a little disappointed in his choice to play for Australia, and then not playing in summer league. Referring to a statistical study indicating that players who participate in summer league after their first season are more likely to have breakout sophomore seasons, thought it was a squandered opportunity (given that he played a grand total of 15 minutes for his national team). MF somewhat pompously declared that, "as an Olympic broadcaster," he could understand the un-replaceable memory the experience of winning a bronze would be, even for the guys who don't play much, drawing a little incoming from Dameris, lol. In any event, not a huge issue. 

Dameris hopes to see Green play around 15 minutes a night this season and appear in most every game. MF thinks 40-50 games as a high-energy, hard-playing contributor might be more realistic. If he doesn't get traded for Dragic or someone else, anyway.

Hinton waived. Great character guy, but didn't show enough improvement on the court. Quicker decision than expected. They didn't have a name in mind on waiving him. The guy taking the second two-way spot may or may not be on the training camp roster.

Mavs sitting on hands? It may seem like nothing much is going on, but the Mavs are spending a lot of time trying to put some structure into what has frankly been a very disorganized front office. A very thoroughgoing effort.  

Markkanen. Mavs kicked the tires on him, but weren't really very interested, given the price. Acquiring him would have been more of an intriguing asset play than an attempt to improve the team, and BD and MF agree that the price was just too high, considering the salary, length of contract, first-round pick required, and lack of on-court fit.  

Other NBA players 


Marc Gasol is available. Don't know if Mavs are interested, but if they are, it would probably be in return for Moses Brown. Gasol doesn't appear to have much left in the tank, but he’s open to leaving, and the Mavs have shown an interest in the past. 

Ben Simmons intends to be a training-camp holdout. Dameris, who knows Morey, thinks he will probably have to come down a little on his price to make a deal -- maybe, for example, CJ instead of Dame. Ben purports to only be interested in the CA teams for now, so good luck to him with that. Mavs could possibly try to get involved as a third team or in some other tangential manner if a deal develops. 

Training Camp. Only a few weeks away!


Update: noting the signing of the second two-way, who played on GSW SL team

[mavsluvr]

 This seems counter to the narrative after the season where there was tension between Bob/Donnie/Rick that was hurting efficiency and productivity.


If Rick "accepted" the recommendation, then he either agreed with it or disagreed and used it anyway to demonstrate Bob's inteptitude to Cuban. Maybe losing Donnie as the buffer is the reason he quit.

I didn't see that as necessarily the case, although I acknowledge I had been under the general impression that KP's relationship with Carlisle might have been somewhat strained. 

What I have heard about Bob's recommendations is that sometimes they worked very well, sometimes they didn't. And that the perception of the coaching staff was that they were supposed to go along with Bob's "recommendations" unless they had some particular good reason not to. Also, that Carlisle liked many of Bob's recommendations, and followed most of the ones he had doubts about because it was his perception that that is what Cuban wanted him to do.

As far as the relationships among Donnie/Rick/Bob affecting team performance, I would imagine that was the case. (To wit, for example, Luka's shouting to Carlisle during a game, "Who's in charge, you or Bob?") The podcasters were not purporting to address all of that, just KP's frustrations with his role and how that came about.

[ItsGoTime]

and followed most of the ones he had doubts about because it was his perception that that is what Cuban wanted him to do.

If true, this speaks poorly of him as a coach, doesn’t it? How does any self respecting coach gonna let the owner who has never come close to coaching an NBA game dictate that to him? I actually thought he had more balls AND clout than that.

[mavsluvr]

If true, this speaks poorly of him as a coach, doesn’t it? How does any self respecting coach gonna let the owner who has never come close to coaching an NBA game dictate that to him? I actually thought he had more balls AND clout than that.

Eh. 

It's not like these things are black and white. 

On a scale of 1-100 (100 being the highest score), Rick could have had various degrees of confidence in different recommendations of Bob's. Presumably, he might have routinely tried things that fell 51-100 on the scale, trashed items 1-25, and maybe given Bob the benefit of the doubt in accordance with Cuban's expectations, on things 31-50 when he needed a new look. (Just pulling these numbers down for illustration, the podcasters didn't phrase it that way.) 

If something actually wasn't working, I assume neither he nor Bob would want to keep doing it, and Bob would come up with another recommendation. 

To the extent your larger point is that it seems bass-ackwards to have a guy who wasn't even on the organization chart having a large degree of sway wrt coaching decisions, and having a degree of confusion over the extent of his authority in the ranks, I don't argue that for a second. 

From what I know of the place, it seems to have been highly dysfunctional on a number of levels. The only thing I would question is whether Carlisle is a terrible coach because he tried some strategies Bob (and Cuban) wanted him to that he wouldn't have tried on his own. I daresay all of us who have ever worked for someone else have followed instructions that we weren't 100% enthusiastic about from time to time.

[Kammrath]

These particular beat writers didn't indicate that Carlisle was a problem, other than taking Bob's recommendations, which, if one is to believe the rumors, was not particularly optional.

I still don't buy into RC not having the "option." If he didn't then he functionally was NOT the head coach. Head coaches determine the rotations and usages and roles of players. Of course they take input, but they make the call.

[Kammrath]

That is what may have led to his asking to be traded if the old regime was going to stay in place.

Good to see this, but basically the least shocking thing that we all knew must be going on.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

@"mavsluvr"  FTW