If We Are Done, Are We Finished?

[omahen]

This sounds like it's a bad thing, but I really like having a backup who is able to abuse opposite backups.

Sure it is good to have them. But it also shows the limitations which are then especially exposed in the playoffs, where junk time lineups are gone from opponents teams. I think Cato covered this nicely a while ago with the high floor low ceiling guys. I think Mavs have several guys in the regular rotation that are good for regular season but their limitation shows in playoffs: Maxi, Powell, Brunson. There is reasonable hope Brunson will improve.

I think as of now Mavs only have four players (Luka, THJ, KP, DFS) who they can count on in playoffs and another two (Brunson, Bullock) in the TBD category. Not nearly enough for more than "lets hope we win a playoff series" imho.

[KillerLeft]

This sounds like it's a bad thing, but I really like having a backup who is able to abuse opposite backups.

Oh, for sure. 

But, you'd better have reason to believe he can hang with starters and still be effective before you extend him at real money, imo. 

I don't have a strong opinion (yet) one way or the other. He fell off in that Clipper series, but that was one series, and his first. I just hope the Mavs get this one right, regardless of which way they go.

[Jason Terry]

Excellent discussion all around in this thread. The VORP analysis brings in a bit of objectivity. Hard for us fanatics to see things for what they are........ We are right there in the mix in talent level. Close to contention. Even last year down the stretch we were a top 4 west team. 

• Why are we close to Phoenix in talent level, yet they’re in a class above us comparing results? Why isn’t Boston better than they are? Chemistry. This is our top issue according to Luka. He is now our franchise and if he says that’s the problem then it’s probably true. Could chemistry come from being together another year? Yes. Could it come from our young players (Luka, KP, JB) and emerging young veterans (DFS, Maxi) improving and being more comfortable? Yes. How about Bullock, Brown or Dragic? Yes.....bottom line is the chemistry element around the league year to year can be fickle. That element is important to our superstar so worth monitoring 
  
  
• KP? The elephant in the room that our season likely depends on. The easiest path to 2nd star(and jump in VORP) is KP. His trade value is low enough that the best move is to wait and see what he looks like. Even in a worst case scenario his contract can be flipped for another max player that could be a better fit. We’ve seen it happen regularly over the past few years.....definitely a situation worth monitoring. Definitely not a situation we feel good enough about at the moment to go all in on another player to build around Luka and KP
  
  
• Do we need another top 20 player to win it all? Eventually, yes, that’s the best path. Luka is the special type of mold though where in his younger years he will have Lebron type ability to will his teams to deep playoff runs
  
  
• Brunson....is he a great backup PG that can feast on 2nd teams? Yes. Does that translate in the playoffs? Not according to the one year of evidence. Probably not next year, but something to keep an eye on. Brunson, Harrell, Pat Bev, Lou Will, Gasol etc. These were all important regular season players. Look no further than Brunson as evidence that playoffs and regular season are completely different. We have plenty of regular season talent. We need more guys we can play in the playoffs. Bullock and Dragic both fit that mold better than a player like Brunson. Still room to grow and take the FVV/Brogdon leap. Another player to keep a close eye on 
  

[sefant]

Sure it is good to have them. But it also shows the limitations which are then especially exposed in the playoffs, where junk time lineups are gone from opponents teams. I think Cato covered this nicely a while ago with the high floor low ceiling guys. I think Mavs have several guys in the regular rotation that are good for regular season but their limitation shows in playoffs: Maxi, Powell, Brunson. There is reasonable hope Brunson will improve.

I think as of now Mavs only have four players (Luka, THJ, KP, DFS) who they can count on in playoffs and another two (Brunson, Bullock) in the TBD category. Not nearly enough for more than "lets hope we win a playoff series" imho.

On Maxi: He was pretty banged up in both playoffs. Would be cool, if he could be healthy once.

1st playoffs: wrist issues (apparantly so bad, that he had to skip few months in the offseason) + broken finger on the other hand in the 1st game in the bubble
2nd playoffs: achilles

[Jommybone]

Ok, I probably like Brunson too much. But these Playoff Paul takes on his performance don’t seem grounded in reality to me. 

Yes, his playing time shrunk and so his numbers were proportionately smaller. But that’s largely about Luka’s minutes increasing and erasing most of Jalen’s minutes as his backup. 

And yes, the team wasn’t awesome in Jalen’s time on the floor. But didn’t he play the largest percentage of his minutes Lukaless? In a series in which Luka dominated? I mean, wouldn’t you expect the stats for Luka’s backup to suffer in a matchup like that one? 

Game 6, which is the one that got away, Brunson checks out with 9:16 to go in a tied game. He checks back in with 45 seconds left, down 9. In Jalen’s 15 mins, the Mavs were +9 but lost by 7. So whatever the Clips found to “expose” Brunson in the series, they forgot to employ it in game 6. 

Don’t think there’s any future in which the Mavs get better by declining to extend Jalen’s contract. Also think they know that, and so does the rest of the league.

[DanSchwartzgan]

On Maxi: He was pretty banged up in both playoffs. Would be cool, if he could be healthy once.

1st playoffs: wrist issues (apparantly so bad, that he had to skip few months in the offseason) + broken finger on the other hand in the 1st game in the bubble
2nd playoffs: achilles

I get a little heartburn any time I put Maxi in a trade.  But, to your point, I tend to remember Peak Maxi.  Clearly Peak Maxi is a better defender than someone like Markkanen (though LM is a dramatically better offensive player).

But, LM compared defensively to Recent Maxi?  Maybe the drop off isn’t that dramatic.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, his playing time shrunk and so his numbers were proportionately smaller.

I'm largely on your side of this issue longterm (though not totally decided yet) but I think the statement above is backwards. 

He was not used only as Luka's backup last season. We started the season with a thread titled something like "Can Brunson play with Luka?" and over the course of the season this question became more and more ridiculous. He basically became that 6th man (extra starter) everyone is trying to turn Hardaway into, at one point even being on the short list of candidates for the 6moty award. He played with Luka plenty, and effectively. He finished quite a few games, actually. 

Then, against the Clippers, he was simply not the same player. Their length seemed like it was a problem for him, imo, but he was definitely not as effective as his strong season had all of us hoping he would be. However, I don't subscribe to the "well, that's that" takes about it. I think it's possible that he learns how to solve those situations as he gains experience in them, but it's also possible that he does not. 

If the Mavericks see him as only Luka's backup, only able to play when he sits, then they should absolutely pass on extending Brunson at a high number and trade him to a team with more need for him before he walks for nothing (I doubt Brunson extends here without a clear path to maintain huge minutes, anyway).  I don't think they see him as only a low-minute backup at all, but I bet we'll get clarity on that soon.

[DallasBasketball]

Then, against the Clippers, he was simply not the same player. Their length seemed like it was a problem for him, imo, but he was definitely not as effective as his strong season had all of us hoping he would be. However, I don't subscribe to the "well, that's that" takes about it. I think it's possible that he learns how to solve those situations as he gains experience in them, but it's also possible that he does not. 

His play against the Clippers was so bad that we have to tell ourselves stories to resolve the dissonance between what we hope for and what we witnessed. 

The story I tell myself goes like, ‘He’s young, it was his first playoffs, he has intrinsic skills like shooting and he can improve as a player.’ And I also change the backdrop, ‘if it was just any defense but THOSE Clippers!’

My question is, how good does Brunson HAVE to be for us to win a championship? Can this version of Brunson, the one we know, receive the salary he’s due AND slot into a championship roster? I think the answer is somewhere in what Shaq refers to as the ‘others’.. if Jalen is an ‘other’ and KP is a star, I think the answer is YES! If it’s Lone Luka and the 7 bandits and Brunson is #3 of 7, I think the answers no.

[Chicagojk]

I am a Brunson fan.  You can make the case the chase for Dragic is more important to Brunson than Luka.    It is unfair to ask Brunson to play like Luka with a bunch of guys who cannot create for themselves.   Brunson, I believe, plays very well with another creator.   

I believe Brunson is a winner and I hope he is here for a long time.   Yes, he was not good against the Clippers.  It was a tough matchup for him, but he only got around 10 minutes a game the last four games.   I would have ridden Brunson more as I thought he was really important to the team during the regular season.

[ItsGoTime]

2nd playoffs: achilles

and back.


I really like Maxi too. To me, he’s my DFS on this team (well, for me, they are on par with each other). Maxi can’t, however, play heavy minutes for us. Especially in the regular season. He’s a 22ish mpg guy. He starts turning into a pumpkin at around 20 mins, so the more you ask of him the less you get and the more wear and tear his body receives.

[embellisher]

and back.


I really like Maxi too. To me, he’s my DFS on this team (well, for me, they are on par with each other). Maxi can’t, however, play heavy minutes for us. Especially in the regular season. He’s a 22ish mpg guy. He starts turning into a pumpkin at around 20 mins, so the more you ask of him the less you get and the more wear and tear his body receives.

I agree. 20 minute Maxi is what we need. 25+ minute Maxi has never been a success. He was much more effective before he started playing big minutes.

[vfromlmf]

          2021    Best
Luka     5.0       5.0
KP        1.4       1.8
THJ       1.1       1.4
JB         1.1       1.1
Bullock  0.9       1.2
DFS       0.9       0.9
DP        0.7       2.1
Maxi      0.5      1.1

                  2021       Best
Markannan    0.7         0.9 (as a 20yo rookie)
Dragic          -0.3         4.0 (in 2013/14; 0.8 in 2019/20)