2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[SleepingHero]

There is nothing in his DNA, as a player, that suggests he would leave the winning situation where he'll be paid more for the losing situation(ie 1 series win in 23 years in NY) to make less.

Is it bad that I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind NYK giving Brunson 30 mil a year? Let him go to the shitter franchise, and when they are inevitably stuck and are 23-36 after February and the Garden is out for his blood, I hope then he realizes his choice. NYK would be stuck with 2 untradeable contracts.

Ok yeah, I still hope he doesn't leave, but I'm starting to get salty...

[omahen]

Easy to look back in hindsight and chastise the Mavs for not signing Brunson to that 4/55 extension in the summer.

According to his dad, the request was on the table in January too, not only in summer

[omahen]

Now the good news...Again, if MacMahon's information is good, Dallas continues to seek the deal to pair a real star with Luka.  There won't be a better time for a PR victory than to rebound from a PR nightmare of losing Brunson for nothing.  So, something bigger than who we might get for the TP-MLE is probably coming if Brunson does indeed walk.

I would prefer Brunson and the real star  Not even to mention how "the real star" is something that must hurt Brunson automatically. I hope Mavs choose more careful language around the league and this is just added by media

Getting a true star will cost. Sure Brunsons contract could help a little as we wouldn't need to send a lot of salary back to make it happen, but still. One target I would reconsider if I lose Brunson would be Harris. Philly should value the cap savings and Thybulle is not a bad piece of the puzzle. This could partially replace Brunsons production and leave our assets for the star

[Mavs2021]

Is it bad that I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind NYK giving Brunson 30 mil a year? Let him go to the shitter franchise, and when they are inevitably stuck and are 23-36 after February and the Garden is out for his blood, I hope then he realizes his choice. NYK would be stuck with 2 untradeable contracts.

Ok yeah, I still hope he doesn't leave, but I'm starting to get salty...

I know we like to do this, but the Knicks own all their future picks plus three additional first round picks. They could put together a pretty enticing package for Zion. That´s the endgame here. Re-unite Cam, RJ and Zion with Brunson being the steady captain of the ship. That´s at least a vision they can sell.

We can all pretend our cap situation isn´t a mess, but it is.

[SleepingHero]

According to his dad, the request was on the table in January too, not only in summer

If you kept reading my post, I called into doubts about that narrative. Even if his dad went back in January it wouldn't have made sense for Brunson to sign it. It would've been a no brainer for the Mavs to lock up their lead guard averaging 17ppg to 13.5 mil a year. It's such a no brainer it makes me think it wasn't ever really there. Also why is his dad negotiating his contract when he's not his agent?

Hence my 2 sides to every story quip.

[SleepingHero]

We can all pretend our cap situation isn´t a mess, but it is.

It isn't a mess. But it doesn't have to be. Their franchise is a mess. They're dedicating massive contracts to 2nd tier players while also not being a free agent destination. 

NYK has been a terrible franchise for nearly a quarter of a century. Their choices of the last 2 years hasn't really dispelled that narrative. Signing Brunson to a near max contract is exactly the type of move that will continue their mediocrity for years. 

Lets say they use those picks to somehow find another star. Lets say Mitchell because there has been smoke there and we assume they use Barrett to get him.

How good is a Brunson-Mitchell-Randle team with no bench and Thibs as your coach? I wouldn't even put them as a top 6 team in the East, and Brunson in this situation is not even the lead guard. 

I'm just saying NYK maxing Brunson is going to a be a doomed choice from the start, and it's hilarious because all their fans see it coming too and are praying it doesn't happen.

[Mavs2021]

I would prefer Brunson and the real star  Not even to mention how "the real star" is something that must hurt Brunson automatically. I hope Mavs choose more careful language around the league and this is just added by media

Getting a true star will cost. Sure Brunsons contract could help a little as we wouldn't need to send a lot of salary back to make it happen, but still. One target I would reconsider if I lose Brunson would be Harris. Philly should value the cap savings and Thybulle is not a bad piece of the puzzle. This could partially replace Brunsons production and leave our assets for the star

I consider every move that involves Dinwiddie/THJ/Bertans/Powell for a monster deal like Harris/Irving/Westbrook/Wall straight up a massive win for the Mavs. 

Thybulle would swing this toward Harris for me, but otherwise I prefer the immediately expiring deals.

[Mavs2021]

It isn't a mess. But it doesn't have to be. Their franchise is a mess. They're dedicating massive contracts to 2nd tier players while also not being a free agent destination. 

NYK has been a terrible franchise for nearly a quarter of a century. Their choices of the last 2 years hasn't really dispelled that narrative. Signing Brunson to a near max contract is exactly the type of move that will continue their mediocrity for years. 

Lets say they use those picks to somehow find another star. Lets say Mitchell because there has been smoke there and we assume they use Barrett to get him.

How good is a Brunson-Mitchell-Randle team with no bench and Thibs as your coach? I wouldn't even put them as a top 6 team in the East, and Brunson in this situation is not even the lead guard. 

I'm just saying NYK maxing Brunson is going to a be a doomed choice from the start, and it's hilarious because all their fans see it coming too and are praying it doesn't happen.

You consider THJ, Dinwiddie, Bertans and Powell 1st tier players? Cause we have committed about $70M to them. I´d be happy, if Bertans and Powell were 3rd tier players. I´d trade literally every single player on the Knicks roster straight up for these two.

I´d argue Julius Randle is a better player than anybody the Mavs have successfully recruited in free agency too, since they won the Championship.

I don´t care if they Knicks screwed up by giving 120M to Brunson, cause all that means he´s not on the Mavs anymore. I would not be a big fan of Brunson on that contract either, but I´m also not a huge fan of Spencer Dinwiddie being our 2nd best player.

[Kammrath]

RE: Rick Brunson's Claims

1) April 25 the story breaks where Rick Brunson claims he went to the Mavs in January and asked them to extend JB.

2) June 2 the news leaks that Rick Brunson has been hired by NYK who has been known to want JB. 

Rick Brunson has a vested interest in turning the Mavs into the bad guy and turning his son against them. 

Rick Brunson goes to MacMahon with a story about the Mavs not treating his son properly in contract negotiations and then less than 6 weeks later is hired by the team that has been aiming to sign his son.

On April 25 when he ran to the media, Rick Brunson had no idea he was going to be hired by NYK (whose season was already over for two weeks)?


Do your own math and connect the dots for yourself.

[Mavsfan12]

It isn't a mess. But it doesn't have to be. Their franchise is a mess. They're dedicating massive contracts to 2nd tier players while also not being a free agent destination. 

NYK has been a terrible franchise for nearly a quarter of a century. Their choices of the last 2 years hasn't really dispelled that narrative. Signing Brunson to a near max contract is exactly the type of move that will continue their mediocrity for years. 

Lets say they use those picks to somehow find another star. Lets say Mitchell because there has been smoke there and we assume they use Barrett to get him.

How good is a Brunson-Mitchell-Randle team with no bench and Thibs as your coach? I wouldn't even put them as a top 6 team in the East, and Brunson in this situation is not even the lead guard. 

I'm just saying NYK maxing Brunson is going to a be a doomed choice from the start, and it's hilarious because all their fans see it coming too and are praying it doesn't happen.

I think anyone giving Brunson that much, without being ok to have unlimited payroll is asking for trouble.  If the Mavs were ALL-IN, meaning they were ready to use all available means to improve - damn the cost - I would only be on board as a means to preserve an asset that couldn't be replaced.  That is such an overpay that he would be very hard to trade.  That playoff series against UTAH for Brunson is the height of his career.

[SleepingHero]

You consider THJ, Dinwiddie, Bertans and Powell 1st tier players? Cause we have committed about $70M to them. I´d be happy, if Bertans and Powell were 3rd tier players. I´d trade literally every single player on the Knicks roster straight up for these two.

I´d argue Julius Randle is a better player than anybody the Mavs have successfully recruited in free agency too, since they won the Championship.

I don´t care if they Knicks screwed up by giving 120M to Brunson, cause all that means he´s not on the Mavs anymore. I would not be a big fan of Brunson on that contract either, but I´m also not a huge fan of Spencer Dinwiddie being our 2nd best player.

I can't help but laugh at your reasoning. The Mavs have overpaid players yes. But you seriously can't think of a major difference between the Mavs and the Knicks? I'll spell it out for you if you can't think of it; L U K A. 

Mavs have found their guy. A legit top 5 MVP candidate every year. Knicks don't have anyone remotely close to that level. Thus the logic of them overpaying 2nd tier players to somehow escape a 23 year long stretch of being in the basement of the league does not make sense.

FURTHER, of the 4 guys you mentioned, only 2 of the guys the Mavs signed. THJ is not overpaid at all. His contract is descending and ranks him at 62nd in the league this year. That's a value. 

The Powell signing was done by the old regime and while it's an overpay, its an expiring contract. Dinwiddie and Bertans ARE overpaid, but weren't the Mavs fault. And while I wasn't a big fan of the KP trade, they both were valued contributors in the playoffs and helped the team get to the WCF.

What kind of success has the Knicks had? What makes you think that their situation is even remotely close to the Mavs?

[mvossman]

According to his dad, the request was on the table in January too, not only in summer

Actually it was implied, but I don't think it was stated.  As others have said, at that point there is no way Brunson signs that extension.  Mistakes have been made with Brunson, but I doubt this was one of them.

[mvossman]

Yeah but we hope it´s Lavine or Beal, when the most likely outcome is Irving. And honestly I´d prefer Westbrook over him. If the Knicks sign Brunson, I´ll make a wager on Irving to Dallas.

The funniest part is that, if we had signed Collins instead of THJ last summer, we could probably trade him for Ayton right now. Hell I´d argue that Markkanen and a pick could probably get you Ayton. Ayton and Luka are always very friendly/respectful toward each other. That´s why I said last summer that we should sign a young player, who has re-trade value rather than THJ.

I'm trying to be respectful, but I'm on vacation and had many drinks, so I apologize if I fail.  I get your constant negativity as this FO has made a lot of mistakes, but sometimes you manufacture failures that were not realistic options.  You regularly complain about our failures to sign restricted free agents (Allen, Markkanen, Collins) when there was no reasonable route to do so.  You also tend to fixate on players who (with the exception of Allen) are anywhere from bad to terrible on defense (Lavine, Randle, Markkanen, White) for a team that really needs two way players.

If the Nicks are signing Brunson, they are not giving up Randle and the Mavs are not taking Fouriner.  I don't see a convoluted trade for Coby White either.  The suggestion that he might be better than Brunson in a couple years seems crazy.  He is one of the worst defenders in the NBA and that does matter.

I don't see the Mavs going after Lavine, Beal or Irving.  This is not the time for that kind of move, and none of those guys are the two player that we need to spend all of our assets on.  

I do like your idea to go after Harris.  A good tax MLE target.

[Mavs2021]

I can't help but laugh at your reasoning. The Mavs have overpaid players yes. But you seriously can't think of a major difference between the Mavs and the Knicks? I'll spell it out for you if you can't think of it; L U K A. 

Mavs have found their guy. A legit top 5 MVP candidate every year. Knicks don't have anyone remotely close to that level. Thus the logic of them overpaying 2nd tier players to somehow escape a 23 year long stretch of being in the basement of the league does not make sense.

FURTHER, of the 4 guys you mentioned, only 2 of the guys the Mavs signed. THJ is not overpaid at all. His contract is descending and ranks him at 62nd in the league this year. That's a value. 

The Powell signing was done by the old regime and while it's an overpay, its an expiring contract. Dinwiddie and Bertans ARE overpaid, but weren't the Mavs fault. And while I wasn't a big fan of the KP trade, they both were valued contributors in the playoffs and helped the team get to the WCF.

What kind of success has the Knicks had? What makes you think that their situation is even remotely close to the Mavs?

So your reasoning for the Mavs being a better run franchise than the Knicks is that the Kings are utter dumbf***s. Not sure that´s the hill I´d like to die on.

Also wtf is Powell and Dinwiddie/Bertans are not the Mavs fault supposed to mean?

With that I am done. I am running through all the dumb sh*t Cuban has done over the last decade from destroying the Championship team to show Dwight Howard comics to the premature Ejaculatvian.

[omahen]

Actually it was implied, but I don't think it was stated. 

It was stated by his dad and repeated many times by McMahon.

Brunson and his dad are very close. The idea that RB would work behind JB back sounds strange to me.

[Fuerza1]

Reminder, the Mavs won't have cap space next summer nor the summer after that, even if Brunson is gone. 

How are the Mavs bringing "star" players to Dallas again? Mavs couldn't get it done when they actually had cap space. What makes you think they'll definitely get stars when they don't have any space at all? 

Will teams send their stars for old Dinwiddie, THJ, and late 1st rounders? Doubt that is the best offer. 

And we're not even taking into account Christian Wood might still need to be re-signed. How much do you pay him? Could be the Brunson conversation all over again.

"Is Wood worth $25M+ AAV? I know he averaged 18/10 during the season and we just lost in the 1st round, but is he really a #2 guy?"

If Wood is not "worth" re-signing AND Brunson walks, the Mavs have bigger problems.

The Big 3 mindset has really poisoned a lot of fans' minds. Too many think we need multiple superstars or you have no chance to win a championship.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I said this awhile back when this Rick Brunson story ran. Don’t believe it. Weird timing for him to talk about it. Stage Dads can be strange. I know the guy played in the league but Jalen is sort of living his dream at this point, no? No way we didn’t give him the 4-55m extension if Jalen wanted it. Even Cuban couldn’t mess that up. Nico is smarter that that. I hope/think this is all about getting Jalen paid. Pretty much guaranteed to get 25m per now. I was thinking he was getting FVV $ before (22m?) the playoffs. Now 25 seems baseline, with possibility of more. If he leaves I’m not sure what the pivot is. Kyrie? Tobias for our junk? Westbrook with 1st round picks attached? (Yuck)

[MrGoat]

So, the bad news from this clip, if true, is that Dallas treated JB like a business decision in prioritizing TDL flexibility over his desire for security.  A piece of meat.  Many here say things like "I'm sure Brunson will be loyal", I'm sure he likes it here" and "I'm sure he'd prefer to play with his friends".  If I'm putting out an "I'm sure" statement it is that "I'm sure Brunson will treat Dallas no different than Dallas treated him".  This is a business decision...the most important one of his life.  I don't believe the 5th year means anything as I suspect even a four year deal will have a PO after three.

Now the good news...Again, if MacMahon's information is good, Dallas continues to seek the deal to pair a real star with Luka.  There won't be a better time for a PR victory than to rebound from a PR nightmare of losing Brunson for nothing.  So, something bigger than who we might get for the TP-MLE is probably coming if Brunson does indeed walk.

I viewed Brunson as a potential trade piece to get that player but the Knicks might bid up the price to the point where it wouldn't be such a great trade piece. For a team that made such strides on defense our offense was actually better the year before when THJ was frequently the second option. Brunson is expendable but I think we've missed the boat on cashing in on him in a trade. If we do lose Brunson for nothing I could definitely see us being very aggressive on the trade market though. Nico seems a lot more trigger happy than Donnie was so far. Can't really play free agency until next offseason even if we lose Brunson, and that would take some wiggling.

[mvossman]

It was stated by his dad and repeated many times by McMahon.

Brunson and his dad are very close. The idea that RB would work behind JB back sounds strange to me.

Count me wildly skeptical Brunson would sign that extension at that point in time.  He was already clearly worth more than that by then.

[Mavs2021]

I'm trying to be respectful, but I'm on vacation and had many drinks, so I apologize if I fail.  I get your constant negativity as this FO has made a lot of mistakes, but sometimes you manufacture failures that were not realistic options.  You regularly complain about our failures to sign restricted free agents (Allen, Markkanen, Collins) when there was no reasonable route to do so.  You also tend to fixate on players who (with the exception of Allen) are anywhere from bad to terrible on defense (Lavine, Randle, Markkanen, White) for a team that really needs two way players.

If the Nicks are signing Brunson, they are not giving up Randle and the Mavs are not taking Fouriner.  I don't see a convoluted trade for Coby White either.  The suggestion that he might be better than Brunson in a couple years seems crazy.  He is one of the worst defenders in the NBA and that does matter.

I don't see the Mavs going after Lavine, Beal or Irving.  This is not the time for that kind of move, and none of those guys are the two player that we need to spend all of our assets on.  

I do like your idea to go after Harris.  A good tax MLE target.

There were reasonable routes to sign Collins and Markkanen. Neither the Bulls or Hawks wanted to-resign these players, so if you pushed the envelope, you could have gotten them. We had the outright capspace to sign Markkanen away from the Bulls. We were one trade away from offering Collins the max, which we know the Hawks would very likely not have matched. Or worked out a S&T. Mavs simply preferred to retain THJ over these players.

If you are so fixated on the idea of only getting two way players, why are we re-signing Brunson anyway? He´s not a two-way player by your seemingly ridiculous standards.....and neither is Wood.

Of course the idea that White could be better than Brunson in three years is crazy to you, just like the idea that Brunson could be better than Lowry was crazy to you all 12 months ago or the idea that Brunson could be better than Oladipo three years ago. It´s called forward projection. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn´t. Facts are it took Brunson till age 25 to have a better NBA season than White, who is three years younger.

Also I bet a lot that if we lose Brunson, Cuban will do a face-saving trade and Irving is simply the best candidate for it. Wall and Westbrook don´t get you the positive press, he´ll be craving. So it´s either Lavine or Irving. Lavine is likely too expensive and the Nets are much more likely to accept a package around Dinwiddie + Kleber to get rid of that nutjob.